Sorry? Do you mind link me to the thread?

Ramjade

since you were an extreme frugal, read this and perhaps it sparks you an new perspective.

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindepende...i_have_learned/

What I Have Learned

So having participated in many threads here in recent months, as well as other financial forums going back to before the 2008 crash, and having been at various points in my life a broke college student/graduate student, having net worth at my absolute lowest point somewhere in the neighborhood of -$155,000 (negative number), quickly digging myself out of debt, marrying into more debt and helping my wife pay her debt off, putting my wife through school and teaching her about investing even when she wasn't entirely on board but agreed to get started (and now is saving aggressively), these are some of the general principles I have learned:

1. No matter how much of your income you save every month, there is always someone on some message board who will claim to save more and say you aren't doing enough. You save 70%? Well someone else saves 80% and plans to save even more moving forward. It doesn't matter. Comparing yourself to people on this forum in this regard is just as futile as comparing your vehicle to people on the opposite end of the spectrum and wondering why they have a nicer car than you do. They might have more income, more debt, more help from family, an inheritance, a wealthy SO. So don't come here and ask "is saving 20% enough?" any more than you would ask the guy in the BMW 5 series, "is driving a 10 year old toyota enough?"

2. There is no shame in enjoying "things" on occasion, even if those "things" cost money.

3. Given #1 and #2, it is a worthwhile exercise to sit down and look at exactly how many hours you have to work to pay your fixed monthly expenses. Want a new car? Calculate exactly how many hours you have to work every month to pay for it. Ask yourself if the tradeoff is worth it. If the answer is "yes, it is worth it" don't fret about the fact that some person on a forum tells you it is an expense you should avoid, or how it might delay your retirement in 1-2 decades, or how you could buy a car for $5K and that would be plenty adequate and you should be happy because you have more than people do in third world countries.

4. When your entire goal is to stop working as soon as feasible, a negativity creeps in about the value of your work, and what it means to be employed and contribute in some way. I am not in any way rationalizing being in a terrible work environment. I fully recognize the work place can be malignant and unpleasant, depending on your supervisors and the culture of your job. I am just pointing out there is a certain value in doing something to feel like you are contributing to the world and helping others and trying to approach your job with a positive frame of mind. If you are a young person who is a decade or more away from retirement, and you are already approaching work with an attitude of, "I don't want to do this a day more than I have to", you would serve yourself well to find a new line of work or change your attitude/perspective just as much as you would by saving every penny available to get out as soon as possible. And sometimes treating yourself a little bit will make you feel better about your work, more so than watching your account balances go up with the goal being to "get out as soon as possible". If you are too extreme with saving a substantial portion of your earnings, your work immediately feels less rewarding because you are not seeing the fruits of your labor other than on paper, which leads me to #5....

5. Reaching financial milestones is not as gratifying as you may imagine. I have met many of them, including paying off significant CC debt and student loans, building up retirement accounts, etc. I have yet to join the "two comma" net worth club but I am not far away. None of the financial milestones have been nearly as meaningful as I imagined they would be when I was younger and my net worth was a large negative number. The reason for this is I know how much I have sacrificed for each of them. When I reach the "two comma" net worth I suspect that day will be no different than any other day of my life thus far or any other milestone I have met. I thought the six figure net worth would be a big milestone for me. I felt no different than the day before. Same with 250K and 500K. You get there and there is no celebratory moment or major life change other than realizing you put a lot of things on hold to get there. It ain't all bad but it certainly isn't the way I imagined it when I was younger.

6. There is a wisdom in pursuing hobbies/outside interests that are inexpensive, but if there is something you feel you need or want to do it might be worth shelling out the money. I have never owned a boat but I would love to and could afford it, could have years ago. I sometimes wonder if I am putting off things that I won't enjoy as much when I am older, whenever I choose it is finally "the right time". You might even find yourself more motivated to work more to support a hobby that makes you happy, if the cheap or free ones don't quite do it for you.

What is my point? I am not sure I have one. I still to this day spend a lot of time on financial forums, here and elsewhere. I still spend a lot less than I earn, although I have loosened up a little recently. But I have noticed in forums such as these there is such an extreme point of view in some cases that doesn't sit well with me. It seems as if many are recommending what I would consider extreme measures which in some cases make people less happy.

There are people who go through life spending way too much money, more than they have, and they are miserable. There are also people who save every last penny and they are miserable too. Each may have their own regrets later in life. The best balance is somewhere in between and there are some extreme points of view in this forum, which may not always be the best way to proceed.

My #4 is splurging on a car that I don't mind driving and yet within my affordability - something that makes me want to drive to work every morning.

#5, one of my first milestones when I was younger was more materialistic, a watch costing me one whole month wage. Years later, upgraded to a 2 months salary piece... another milestone achieved.

I think a person's attitude to life is very important (to be happy) whether in retirement or working. Now if we are able to appreciate/value our hard-earned assets/possessions more easily than others, we generally tend to be happier than others. I think the secret is being able to feel gratitude (感恩) for the things we have. If we are able to do this, we will feel that a lot of times, we really don't need more (money) in life.

Like in my case, compared to my group of Msians friends (all migrated to Sydney in 70s/80s), i am probably one of the poorest in the group but i am one of the happiest. Most of them have built up retirement/income-producing assets of more A$4-5mil (doesn't include their house) but yet they feel poor. They are all in their 60s/70s and they keep telling me to working to generate more assets/retirement funds. I ask them how much they need in retirement and they don't really know because they don't really calculate/plan. I don't really compare myself with these friends (they all have a few kids so may need a bit more to help the kids out ) because when you start to compare then you will feel miserable.

A very good link by sky18 - must say i learnt a few things from it.

She normally doesn't like me to go on LYN because she says i shouldn't be talking to young kids that i don't know on the net.

I guess my wife is telling me an old man like me shouldn't go talking with younger people and that i should be talking with people my age. What she doesn't know is that i have picked up a lot of things in LYN which will prove useful when i go back to KL to retire. Some of the things/tips that are expressed in this forum are actually very useful to me as i am living overseas and have not much clue about living long-term in Msia.

When enough people retire early i.e leave work force, those remaining in the work force could and will demand for higher price for their services i.e inflation will rise. Some or many of those retired may be forced to return to work.

In practice, without state sponsored education and welfare, few with children could truly fi/re

Sorry but I guess lots of ppl had misunderstand / disagreement / bias on RE part. Many had take the stand that RE is equivalent to normal retirement post 55 or 60 years olds where ppl only "makan, tidur dan main". Well, if you looks more carefully, especially from angmo blogger, many of them effective transit into another type of works (something meaningful to their believe) instead of corporate 9-5 job. Thus, i can't agreed on all the points above as the very fundamental view on FI/RE is different; but I'm really feel RE (retirement early) is a misleading terminology.

Besides, we had to admit that not everyone can archive FI, and among these ppl, not all of them can resist the greed and move on to RE. Anyhow, the world is huge enough to accept these diversity, similiar to religion & races. Thus, many points wont's happened as not every can FI/RE, and affect the whole economy eventually, similar to you can't expect ALL smoker stop smoking as all of us knew is not good for health. I guess you were old enough appreciate this is not a perfect world.

One the other hand, if one success reached his FI at 40 and break away from his corporate minion job could due to his prioity on health/family or being forced i.e:layoff. His still contributing in other forms, eg: funding for business via investment/stock/etc, spend more focus and raise their kids be a better person, charity works, or even writing an self-help book etc. Would you agreed these are much better than those still works but on sin industries related to gambling, human or weapon trafficker, drug dealer, etc?

FI essentially is an enablement on finacially wise to allow someone move to next stage. while RE part is one trying find a new balance of his life. So long this new balance is not hurting anyone, we shouldnt' take any prejudicement on it.

Many breakthru and innovation mainly from "passionated" scientist, and these ppl unlikely take RE as their passion and purpose is what they doing in their dayjob. FI is just meant there is no financial stress for them. Unfortunately, in corporate world, most of corporate minion are soulless and all these cog are replaceable when it needed. Furthermore, some new youngester not neccessary value their senior opinion, and corporate life is getting worse due to ever demanding and constant changes. Afterall, the manager, senior manager or even CEO just another cog.

After someone achieved FI and choose to quit from his/her 9-5jobs, he/she will have a lot of freedom in term of time.

To not be SELFISH as someone said, use that time to participate in volunteering, giving back in term of you knowledge to your University, spend more times to take care of your parents or with your kids.

Also you can choose to work what you like or part time which will eventually needs to pay income tax to government. (Tutor/lecturer, financial consultant, unit trust consultant, or Real Estate Negotiator). Selling enough products to many people will have you to pay tax maybe more than someone who still on his/her 9-5jobs.

My opinions.

3. That's if you use govt related stuff. If not? Is out of your own pocket.

5. True. But how many can afford to retire early if they spend > what they earn?  Saving is hard and spending is easy. Guess how many will choose the easy way? 

10. You are already working hard your life, why should you not reward yourself after all the hard work? Family come first over work/country.

13. Well is their choice whether they want to work their way towards self sustainability or they want to work their way by becoming slaves to the banks/countries.
I know what I prefer.

14. Not if you keep in good health.

Sorry if I don't reply all but you get my idea.

My wife keeps her money separately from me and even though she is Msian, people (esp women) change after living in Aust for a while. She likes to give her opinion and i would normally accept it if it is fair. She is not as submissive as 30 years ago.

Due to the push for women equality, a lot of govt and semi-govt jobs (very cushy job!) now have a quota whereby women must be employed to meet the 45-50% participation rate. It is probably a bit like the bumi policy but here the women is the bumi. Call it unfair or whatever for men but this is the direction that Aust is heading towards where people are employed not by merit and by gender.

I don't think there is right or wrong if some one choose to retire early. If his/her financial situation permit then what is the issue of him/her to retire early.

In relation to the whole economy picture, I am sure there are plenty of people who are looking for full time job and they will be plenty of people to replenish the vacant post that just created. If some one wanted to contribute their time full times for charity work/raising this and raising that, who are we to say no them? Take note those charity organisation doesn't work on its own.

Jack ma is retiring at 54 which I don't thin Alibaba group is going to close down when he retired. When Steve job passed away, is Apple going away with him together?

I don't think there is big picture or small picture, do take note that everyday there is new born baby and everyday there is some one pass away so the world is continue to move when one person choose to retire and his spot will be filled by some one it is eco balance of the whole universe.

I can't speculate whether he is believer or not because I don't him and I can't comment but basing with your logic I can say he is a believer otherwise he will continue to work till 70.

Smoking is not a selfish act, smoking is a preference for each individual. If a person smoking in front of children then I would call it selfish.

I think part of the reason capitalism works has got to do with the allure of riches , including the freedom that comes with it. If there is a "law" preventing early retirement and hence ”preventing loss of productivity".... I am sure the drive to excel will be much less across society ..in short, why accumulate wealth if one can never ever stop work if he wants to?

Another point I would like to make is - I think only a small number of people can achieve full financial independence by age 55.... an even smaller % can achieve at age 40 to 45... the % is so small that it is negligible to productivity

Can you show me what is the statistic that people are actually retiring early? an official retirement age is just a number put on retirement. At one point Australia trying to implement retirement age at 70 so are you saying the whole world should set the retirement age at 70?

Jack Ma founded alibaba in 1999 when he was 35 so why you think Alibaba would not exist?

Since when in my comment that I indicated that when I retiring and I will live alone? Can you please show me?
I don't think smoking in public is a selfish act and I dont agree with your comment on smoking.

You keep talking about your comment as hypothesis, do you have statistics to show that people who retire early will severely affect the economy?

Yes EPF is extending the age of retirement this is part contributed by the longevity of population.

If a person can choose to retire early while his financial permitted so who are you to judge people are selfish?

Smoking also contribute to the tax and economy so based on your logic that people should not retire early because they don’t contribute to economy then why you said smoker is selfish? They contribute to economy via sin tax and the more cigarette they buy the more workforce required.

I am not sure smoking analogy is appropriate. Smoking is discouraged..yes. Extending retirement age is exactly because most people cannot achieve FI by age 55 to 60 and hence have to work longer...otherwise they will run out of money after age 55 and becomes a social problem..

There is a difference between "trend to FIRE" and "actual FIRE” Yes, there is an increasing desire to FIRE. How that trend translates to actual achievement of FIRE is not known. I suspect the % achieving FIRE will remain low.

I know what you mean. There are some who take this to the extreme. They save like mad, up to 70%, and then they "retire" at age 35, living on subsistence level of passive income, and they call it "freedom"... yes, taken to the extreme, it is toxic!

I'm neutral on those capable calls FI/RE on their 40. Afterall, it's their choice and leveraging on capitalism system.
Agreed. it'll affect economy condition if hit 30%. However, it ain't going to happened. I doubt FI population can exceed 1% of population, not to mention those jump into RE at age 40-50.
Even your hypothesis 30% occur, many of them will fall back from financial freedom as their projected return is way lower to sustain their life. The capitalism rules just not allow it happened.
I can't deny it can happened these thing can potential co-exist (4). However, the magnitude or effort required if much higher. You probably missed the point where core essence of FI/RE is about buying more time (finite good) vs money (fiat money practically just a number in core banking system).

Agreed on most of the points above. Again, our fundamental understanding of FI/RE is different. In fact, all these happened since old day without such glamour word FI/RE.
Old saying would be a person change his career path in mid-life from corporate white colar to book writer/voluntary or hawker char kway teow.  Points 4-8 is archive by leaving their 9-5 corporate dayjob with solid financial as backup.
In fact, I would says FI/RE is more archivable nowaday due to capatilism, and ease of access to various investment vehicle, knowledge & information aside from self awakening and determination.