I purchased a house from an owner (he is government loan, me bank loan). SnP was signed about 3 months ago. After SnP signed, the house is emptied and owner give me the key and give permission for me to move in because according to our lawyer the process will take up to 8 months due to government loan for previous owner. As soon i got the key and discuss with the owner, I started to do some renovation and moved in the house.
Today my lawyer just called me saying that we have problem when they found out the house has caveat filed by the owner ex wife. My lawyer called the ex wife and persuade her to to drop the caveat as the husband are willing to share the profit he got from this house. But she dont want to negotiate and she insist want to wait for their divorce court trial (Syariah court). According to my lawyer this will take years. I dont know how is my status right now.
Too bad for me, I spent quite a lot amount of RM already for renovation and repair job. Plus 10% down payment cash. I also just signed another SnP to sell my previous house .

Anybody have exp on this? Is anything can do to protect my right as well? Seeking forumners kind advise

loan dah lulus??
because if caveat bank will not give loan.
cannot change name.

1. continue staying. hard to chase you out too.
2. you put caveat too.
3. your lawyer should have checked if the title is caveated before or not before passing the downpayment.

anyway, it's good for you that you can drag 90% payment for years and enjoying the house now.

How can your lawyer advise you to sign the SPA without conducting a land search prior to that? Did he/she even conduct a land search? If so, when was the search conducted and when was the caveat entered?

Loan approved already before I signed snp. But that one I think is just loan offer. But in the midst of processing only they found out that the house got caveat and bank cant proceed next step. I also not really familiar about the process

regarding the #3, I think the lawyer only just checked it today thats why we cant detect this earlier

Could be the lawyer overlooked this. I would see this problem because of the lawyer

Referring to#1..did I have right to stay if only depends on the signed SPA?

Engaging a reliable lawyer is important ... this may be the only purchase and the most expensive financial commitment.

Many people prefer low cost lawyer and reliability is questionable when he take too many cases to cover cost and therefore unable to monitor all cases left to his Assistants.

Coming back to the case ....

1. You go to the land office personally where the title is located and do a Carian Rasmi ..... not Carian Persendirian. The search result can be different and also the cost involved. Carian Rasmi will have the signature of the Pegawai and is a proper search to do before you sign snp.

In a Carian Rasmi, if the caveat is not updated during the date of search by your lawyer, the land office can be held for your loss.

2. Request a copy of the search from your lawyer. The date of the search must be before you sign the snp. If your lawyer cannot produce it, then no search is done. If the caveat is entered before you sign snp, then your lawyer should face the hangman! ... the Bar Council. If is after you sign snp, then is not the fault of the lawyer eventhough no search is done. Your lawyer narrowly escape the hangman!

3. In your personal search, it will also show whether your lawyer has entered a caveat to protect your interest after signing the snp. If is done, then good. If not, send him to the hangman.

4. If your caveat entered by your lawyer is dated ahead of the other caveat, then you have your interest protected .... first come first serve. Otherwise, last come, last serve.

5. You should not have renovated the house even you were giving the keys. You are still not the registered owner. In the event the deal cannot be save, you have to bear the cost yourself. Right to stay and right to renovate are two different things

The dispute between husband and wife over a property can be a very long process. The wife is NOT interested in the share of the PROFIT from the sale. She wants 50% or more of the SELLING PRICE! which is alot of diff! Unless the husband can agree, then snp can he save. On the negative side, the wife may wants the house on the divorce settlement.

Otherwise, abort the purchase, ask the lawyer to get the vendor to refund the 10%. You will be lucky if the vendor have the money to refund or wants to refund....he has already handed you the house key.

If is the fault of the lawyer, discuss with him on how to compensate you. Be firm. Otherwise send him to the hangman.

If your lawyer is also acting for the vendor, whose interest is he going to safeguard?

As a paying client, you have every right to instruct your lawyer NOT to also represent the other party. If he tells you it saves time and paperwork, sack him and engage another lawyer to safeguard your interest.

Many people wants to save few thousand dollars in legal fees for few hundred thousand dollars transaction without realising the consequences if the problem like your occurs. Sens wise, Ringgit foolish!

Take this 'purchase' as an expensive lessson. No point living in a house with uncertainty of outcome ... according to the claim by the vendor's wife. Worst, if the vendor dies before settlement of divorce .... the process can even be more complicated.

I would suggest you also get advise from another lawyer.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 15 2018, 09:19 PM

Your lawyer screw up. Get a better lawyer.

The signed snp will not give the right to the buyer to occupy the property before settlement of the purchase price.

If there is such arrangement, is usually a personal arrangement between buyer and seller out of goodwill. And in most cases, a nominal rental is agreed.

Wish to update on my earlier post....

To blame the lawyer outright is not right without knowing the sequence of the case.

Eg. 1

10.12.17 - Lawyer did search. Title no caveat. Prepare snp.

12.12.17 - Vendor"s wife lodged caveat.

15.12.17 - Vendor and buyer signed snp

Eg. 2

10.12.17 - Lawyer did search. Title no caveat. Prepare snp.

15.12.17 - Vendor and buyer signed snp

17.12.17 - Buyer's lawyer lodged caveat

20.12.17 - Vendor's wife lodged caveat.

Lawyer at fault?

Bank cannot proceed because of a third party caveat. Borrower was informed accordingly.

If the lawyer cannot prove a search is done before sign snp, then he is at fault.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 16 2018, 12:06 AM

I am really not aware and familiar with the process. In this case I beleived the lawyer not check the land status at the 1st place. The thing is happen already. Dont know what to do to minimize the impact on my side

You cannot assumed the lawyer didnt check the land status. Ask him for proof of search. Is your right as a client.

You cannot minimise your problem. Your vendor can only help you in this case to settle with his wife and proceed with the snp.

Your lawyer can help you to get a court order to remove the caveat. More cost be incurred if is not lawyer fault. How long it takes, depends whether the wife is going to contest the removal.

If is your lawyer's fault, ask him for solution or compensation.
If he cant give either both, then lodged a report to the Bar Council. You follow up from there.

As for the reno, you took the risk, so you bear the cost if things dont work out when you have to hand over the house back to the seller.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 16 2018, 09:47 AM

I am really not aware and familiar with the process. In this case I beleived the lawyer not check the land status at the 1st place. The thing is happen already. Dont know what to do to minimize the impact on my side

Already given you some info to start. If still encounter problems, come back here and see who can help.

If you dont help yourself ... just leave it alone.

Maybe when dawn comes tomorrow, the sun rises from the west .... just maybe ... and all things settled.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 16 2018, 12:02 PM

Mini orchad already gave u lengthy advice.you have to step up, follow the steps and start taking action. dont 100% depend on ur lawyer.

u can hire runner or online runner to do land search for you.

if no choice...then do court order...

Got clearer picture today after meetup with my lawyer and the vendor.

11/11/17 lawyer make an "official search" - no caveat
22/11/17 snp signed
8/3/18 lawyer make another search before further proceed with bank related process - found caveated lodge by 3rd party(vendor's exwife) dated on 15/11/17

According to the vendor next week he will be 1st hearing. He hope can convince the exwife to drop the caveat. Because he willing to give her 50% of the profit. If they go to court also max she can get only 50%, she also possible to get even lower than that..

In the meantime, lawyer advise me to make police report. Just in case the ex wife suddenly make noise or attack me for reason staying in her house.

I also advised to lodge another caveat.

This post has been edited by Berfda: Mar 20 2018, 09:08 PM

Is good that you took an effort to seek the correct answer rather than pushing the blame to your lawyer.

Your hope now is for the vendor to settle with the wife.

Do update us on the progress as I also want to learn something from this.

Wish you for a good outcome. Do say a prayer every morning.

You can't lodge another caveat until the wife removes her caveat from the property.

Nothing can move until the wife agrees to remove the caveat from the property.

And trust me, family court are usually very ugly. Don't hope that the wife will easily settle for 50% profit if she has legal basis to demand for the house or whatever.

The circumstances does not look good actually. If the wife refuses to drop the caveat, you can be dragged on very long for this matter.

As for police report, this arrangement is not covered by the contract as the Vendor allows you to stay there while the transactions are being sorted out. I assume there's no formal agreement on paper regarding this arrangements. Therefore, the Vendor's wife (if she does own part of the property / her name on the title) could also be troublesome in this matter.

If she does own the house however, I think she can somewhat apply for an eviction to remove you out till the completion of the SPA process which could be another headache....

But those are just assumptions. I hope that the wife really drops the Caveat to ensure you are not being a victim of circumstances in a family dispute case.

This post has been edited by chiahau: Mar 21 2018, 02:43 PM

Private caveat can be lodged by anyone who has a caveatable interest. There is no restriction on the number of caveats. Caveats work on first come, first serve basis.

All parcel owners of a condo having only a master title can lodge a caveat pending issue of strata title to safeguard individual interest.

Private caveat can be removed by a court order if the court finds that the caveator has abused the right to caveat. The caveator must proof interest in the property to maintain the caveat, if it is challenged.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 21 2018, 05:14 PM

Ah... interesting case. Parking for more updates on the case.

If it was based on East Malaysia, if the house is fully owned by the husband not co own with the wife (wife has no name in title), then purchaser can actually lodge a land inquiry at land office to challenge to have the wife caveat removed from the property if the caveatable interest is only on monetary gains for divorce; not on the house ownership itself. Unless it is about the house ownership say the husband forge the ex wife signature as another owner etc. However, this is my opinion. Am not lawyer.

However, am not familiar with syariah law also, this could be intertwine with the transfer of ownership too.

Anyhow, like mentioned earlier, looking forward for more updates on the case.

EDIT : Anyhow, do remind your lawyer to caveat the said property for your own interest.

This post has been edited by edyek: Mar 22 2018, 05:46 PM

The house named to the vendor only. Its not joined name. According to the vendor, when the time he purchased the house, the wife is full-time housewife and not contribute at all in monetary. they also not stay in this house when they still together. The house is empty until I come in.
They already divorced like 3 years ago(2014), they move on their life in separate way and the ex wife shows no interest to bother about the house. Then the vendor decide to sell the house and start to advertise from beginning of year 2017. She still not even bother about the ex husband decision to sell the house. Only after she find out the ex husband found a buyer on nov 2017, seems like she dont want to miss the train to grab some profit then quickly lodge the caveat.

Just with the reasons above, the husband can challenge the validity of the claim (in this case, the caveat) by the ex wife. His divorce lawyer should be very well versed in this. If the wife can prove that the house was acquired during their time together and that she has contributed to the purchase of the house only can she claim partial ownership. But having said that, unless the vendor has failed in his obligation to pay matrimony to the ex wife, then she could lay claim on the property.

This post has been edited by TOMEI-R: Mar 23 2018, 12:06 AM

With all divorce cases, when love is gone .... money comes into picture.

Exactly

Sorry to necro this thread. But after so long, what was the outcome of your case?