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 Free or Lease Hold, How important it is ?

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belement
post Jun 14 2007, 11:02 PM

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If you are buying a house to stay, then you should consider location rather than whether it is freehold or lease hold. 99 years is simply a long time and good for two generation.
hackwire
post Jun 15 2007, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(belement @ Jun 14 2007, 11:02 PM)
If you are buying a house to stay, then you should consider location rather than whether it is freehold or lease hold. 99 years is simply a long time and good for two generation.
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i also agree. if you are about 30 years old now and you plan to stay in that location till you old.
You buy a 99 years lease hold.

Let say you live up to 90 years old. you already live for 60 years in the lease. by that time, you still have 30 over years and i dont think you will be in trouble because you probably hand it over to somebody in the Will . so y bother about it when somebody younger is inheriting it .

as for investment, hit and run sort of thing, go for freehold or leasehold also the same what.

the problem here is people are not decisive whether its for investment or stay , they want both and the issue of leasehold vs freehold can never end.



This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 15 2007, 06:38 PM
lek_e30
post Jul 4 2007, 10:21 AM

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freehold or lease hold actually does not matter too much....the main concern is location, location, location...... if the property set at leasehold and a hot place, ppl dun worry abt the 'holds' as long as the capital gain is there. just like some of u guys mention here, anything could happen in gov arrangement, so better look for what is suits you..
leahcim
post Jul 5 2007, 12:56 AM

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this topic seems interesting. any site to go to learn more about lease hold and free hold?
intelpentium4
post Jul 11 2007, 05:10 PM

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great topic..i was about to ask too..considering about pelangi utama now..it's leasehold, after listenin to all ur comments..it really doesn't matter that much.

max_cavalera
post Jul 12 2007, 02:15 AM

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Leqasehold value will drop in the future unlike freehold. So if your investing properties for the sake of return generally your way better off with freehold unit. But leasehold also can be an exception if the rental rate provides strong return.
vreis
post Jul 13 2007, 10:50 AM

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Freehold properties price is very good compare to leasehold. It will goes up faster.

BUT no matter freehold or leasehold, Gov have the right to repossess the land if it wants to. They only have to pay nominal compensation to owners.

Leasehold properties subsales is more complicated in the sense that You need state government consent which may take up to 1 yr, in which time you have to pay vendor compensation as the SPA agreement states that 3+1 mth for all prosedure to complete. BUT some of the leasehold properties won't need consent, depending on the area.
lonewolf
post Jul 16 2007, 04:19 PM

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so what happens after the leasehold expires?..u have to move out and u loose all the $$?..
vreis
post Jul 16 2007, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(lonewolf @ Jul 16 2007, 04:19 PM)
so what happens after the leasehold expires?..u have to move out and u loose all the $$?..
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Normally about 20-30yrs before expiry, there will be renewal by Gov. Even if it really expires, the compensation paid will probably the same as if its not expired.
Arkaine
post Jul 26 2007, 09:47 AM

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This topic really make thing clear about buying a property with leased or freehold title.....

Thinking of buying a house in a year or two.... thanks for clearing things up.
Quasi-Suave
post Aug 28 2007, 06:25 PM

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I find it strange that you guys are talking about the government taking over your property. Unless it is located in a strategic area to be developed, the likelihood of this happening is negligible. The government cannot simply take over your property for the sake of doing so. There is such a thing called legal process. There is such a thing called accountability.

This country is still a democracy and the government will be mindful of their actions (esp. in light of the coming elections).

With that cleared up, I'm of the opinion that, all things being equal, investing in a freehold property is still better than lease hold. I have a friend who bought a freehold house in Damansara as an investment for his son's future educational expense because it will be more than likely that the house will appreciate in price, enough to cover his son's college expenses when he is of age. Can you say the same for leasehold properties?

Stop being so myopic and try to look at larger issues please.
bysquashy
post Aug 28 2007, 06:49 PM

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Anyone experience taking loan on sub-sale leasehold property?

It make a hell of different between freehold.


sooyeshun
post Sep 2 2007, 10:10 PM

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after 99 years, you'll be living in heaven...
vreis
post Sep 3 2007, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(bysquashy @ Aug 28 2007, 06:49 PM)
Anyone experience taking loan on sub-sale leasehold property?

It make a hell of different between freehold.
*
I did. Just got my key today. Apparently the max. loan given by banks depends on the duration left of the lease & lease hold need Gov/Dev consent before can transfer name. It's pain in the arse procedure especially if your properties not in KL.
Fortunately mine doesn't need consent.
b00n
post Sep 3 2007, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Quasi-Suave @ Aug 28 2007, 06:25 PM)
I find it strange that you guys are talking about the government taking over your property. Unless it is located in a strategic area to be developed, the likelihood of this happening is negligible. The government cannot simply take over your property for the sake of doing so. There is such a thing called legal process. There is such a thing called accountability.
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It's stated in the contract that the Government can really take over your property when the land tenure is up.
Sorry; but it's in the LEGAL procedures when you signed it.
However, they might compensate you which I would presume the amount would be "little" and gave you enough time to evacuate.

Anyway a lot had mentioned; it's more lengthy and involves more time and procedures when names are to be transfered. I.e. by the way of selling properties or normal transfer of names or adding of names to the properties.

Other than that, there's no particular difference unless the leased tenure is getting shorter and shorter.

This post has been edited by b00n: Sep 3 2007, 04:45 PM
Pai
post Sep 3 2007, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(b00n @ Sep 3 2007, 04:44 PM)
Other than that, there's no particular difference unless the leased tenure is getting shorter and shorter.
*
actually, there is 1 more major difference between freehold and lease hold properties, which is the pricing.

Other things being equal, freehold props often commands a minimum 25% premium in prices as compared to leasehold props. Hence why IMO freehold props rarely generates good returns wink.gif
Quasi-Suave
post Sep 3 2007, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(b00n @ Sep 3 2007, 04:44 PM)
It's stated in the contract that the Government can really take over your property when the land tenure is up.
Sorry; but it's in the LEGAL procedures when you signed it.
However, they might compensate you which I would presume the amount would be "little" and gave you enough time to evacuate.

Anyway a lot had mentioned; it's more lengthy and involves more time and procedures when names are to be transfered. I.e. by the way of selling properties or normal transfer of names or adding of names to the properties.

Other than that, there's no particular difference unless the leased tenure is getting shorter and shorter.
*
Yes, when the tenure is up. Freehold has no tenure.

There is no argument that the government can take over your leasehold property when the tenure is up. They'll just not approve your lease extension, wait till the tenure lapses, and evict the (former) land "owners". I don't think they'll even need to compensate you since the land is no longer legally yours.

My point was made in reference to many forummer's comments that there is little difference between freehold and leasehold in terms of permanence of ownership since the government can easily take your property by paying compensation. This is not true.
b00n
post Sep 3 2007, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Sep 3 2007, 05:56 PM)
actually, there is 1 more major difference between freehold and lease hold properties, which is the pricing.

Other things being equal, freehold props often commands a minimum 25% premium in prices as compared to leasehold props. Hence why IMO freehold props rarely generates good returns  wink.gif
*
that I wouldn't agree with you.
Now it's all about location.
Again, there's hardly any comparison to start with.
Look at Tropicana for instance; doubted that even if it's freehold; the price is already at it's high. Freehold or no freehold doesn't make any difference there.
Look at wangsa maju now. Eventhough the area is mostly leasehold; now it commands quite high demand.

Unless of course the land or property lease left like maybe 30 years to end. If not, new areas are popping up and selling like hotcakes in high prices no matter free or lease hold.
Pai
post Sep 3 2007, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(b00n @ Sep 3 2007, 08:21 PM)
that I wouldn't agree with you.
Now it's all about location.
Again, there's hardly any comparison to start with.
Look at Tropicana for instance; doubted that even if it's freehold; the price is already at it's high. Freehold or no freehold doesn't make any difference there.
Look at wangsa maju now. Eventhough the area is mostly leasehold; now it commands quite high demand.

Unless of course the land or property lease left like maybe 30 years to end. If not, new areas are popping up and selling like hotcakes in high prices no matter free or lease hold.
*
Boss, the location factor is given. What I'm trying to point out here is that given the SAME LOCATION (e.g Kelana Jaya or Sentul), developers will charge you higher premium for freehold properties. Which is why in my post i did mentioned "Other things being equal" clause.

E.g :

1. In sentul, new YTL's Tamarind freehold condo's currently priced at RM280 psf, while the newly completed leashold one's leasehold ones called Melur Apartments selling for RM180psf only.

2. Kelana Jaya's Parkview condo (FH) is selling for RM280psf, while Kelana Puteri condo accross the road selling for RM170 psf.



wink.gif



b00n
post Sep 4 2007, 09:43 AM

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This is a good article to read.
http://www.hba.org.my/faq/lease_freehold.htm

here is another one that talked about fallacy of leasehold.
http://www.hba.org.my/archive/news/2002/11...old_fallacy.htm
again this is what is quoted:
QUOTE
Let's take for example, properties in Section 1 in Petaling Jaya. The properties in average have about 20 years to 30 years left in the lease and residential land values are averaging at RM28-RM30 per sq feet (psf). Though the prices are about similar to what it was 10 to 15 years ago, it takes longer to find buyers, with the market being very limited to existing residents.

In contrast, let's look at Section 5 in Petaling Jaya, where property has a longer lease tenure left of 55 to 70 years , and have seen considerable appreciation of about 30 - 40 per cent in the last 10 to 15 years, even though the lease tenures have been reducing. This appreciation is comparable to those of freehold nature.

Which I agree very much.
Regarding developers charging higher premium which I don't agree.
Like my given example; I don't think the price would differ much even when there's a freehold land in tropicana.
Pai,
your example on Tamarind and Melur is not as "everything is constant" as you think.
Tamarind for one is considered quite high end compared to Melur; though they are in Sentul. So, it's no longer constant; thus I said before "there's hardly any comparison to start with".
Kelana Puteri is already old and overcrowded with students. Parkview I'm not sure.


Added on September 4, 2007, 5:44 pmSome more information on renewal of lease for leasehold land from SOURCE
I would put 2 quotes that are of informational:
QUOTE
Land titles come under state governments and the ft land commissioner for ft. This is constitutional. There is nothing in the national land code concerning lease renewal. What the land office issues are titles and owners are either owners of freehold or of the lease. Upon expiry there is no obligation of land office to grant a new lease. In practice what happens is that the unencumbered remaining lease is surrendered in exchange with a letter of undertaking that it will be Realienated back to the holder. Holder then applies for realienation and pays the necessary premium which is quite cheap. In some cases, the approval of the local authority and a requisition survey is reguired. Please get more advise from a licensed land surveyor who would be able to advise you and recommend a lawyer versed in these matters for your particular case.


QUOTE
1) The renewal will all depend on if the government or the Federal Territory gov has any new plans for development in the area. But usually lease renewal no problem. I have many clients whom renew their lease in KL with no problems.

2 & 3) Lets see, if you look under the Federal Terrotory of Kuala Lumpur Land Rules 1995, under part 3 Premium rule 9, Premium on lease to be realienated.

(1) When an expired lease is to be realienated to the former registered proprietor, the rate of the premium to be determined by the Gov. is one quarter of those specified in subrule 8(b) and shall exclude the value of any building or cultivation then found on land.


(subrule 8 (b) where alienation is by way of lease, the rate of premium to be charged shall be calculated as follows and the value of the land to be calculated shall be determined by the Gov. based on market value of the land:-

For residential
1/4 x value of land x 1/99 x term of lease=premium to be paid)

(2) If the period of lease has not expired, the rate if premium to be charged shall be calculated as follows:-

1/4 x category of the land use x value of the land x 1/99 x (term of new lease minus balance of existing lease) = premium to be paid.



This post has been edited by b00n: Sep 4 2007, 05:44 PM

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