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> AXIA spin again !

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rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 31 2017, 08:35 AM)
EPS has different scheme of operation

some doesn't has any direct mechanical link between steering and wheels. Typical those cheap system use this kind of design

Steer by wire yo
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No lah, the other way round, only expensive infinity has true steer by wire , even then there is fail safe clutch that engages to connect steering direct to wheels when system detects failure

All other systems have mechanical link, the motor just assist
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(yattnana @ Jul 31 2017, 08:47 AM)
Some eps system are so sensitive that a loose battery connection can totally disable the electric assistance
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Just know that the steering still can be used even without assistance

It's very unusual feeling as the steering suddenly is super super heavy but the car is still steerable and driveable

But if you have never experienced it, the increase in effort can be interpreted as jammed / locked .
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jul 31 2017, 09:27 AM)
you never tried you won't know.

you say folks who drove cars without power steering can manage better? maybe, but understand it's heavier to turn a faulty assisted steering than a non-assisted steering due to extra parts in the assist system like pumps/motors/hydraulics etc, those are added deadweight when the system is off.

also, some cars tend to lock the steering wheels, it's suppose to be locked when the engine is off to prevent theft, but jsut for you to know, like many things which can go wrong, it may just lock your wheels while driving.
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Best course of action is to remove all power steering and anti theft for the axia , like kancil , million a of cars, not a single complaint sudden lock

Win win
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jul 31 2017, 09:32 AM)
still can't solve lost of brake assist part (brake pump).

if you remove the brake pump it will make braking alot harder compared to no power steering.
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Easy, make the master cylinder as big as the brake booster like a dinner plate, so little pressure enough to lock all wheels
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(alien13579 @ Jul 31 2017, 10:45 AM)
hands down hydraulic wins
dat feel when u steer it, EPS is just no feeling at all
toyota one, so soft can even steer using pinky

not to mention hydraulics are reliable
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I like EPS more

- can vary assistance according speed , super light for parking , heavier for highway
- no grinding , whining at full lock
- no oil and pump drag on engine , rubber hoses that crack and leak after a while
- lane keep assistance as comfort feature on long highway drives , no need keep making corrections to stay in lane
- more expensive EPS can even have variable ratio , parking one turn lock to lock , highway more turns
- more horsepower , less drag on engine


rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(alien13579 @ Jul 31 2017, 10:58 AM)
i know hydraulic vs EPS has their own pros and cons
ultimately i still prefer hydraulics over EPS
it just doesn't have that feel when you're steering it laugh.gif
and if its done right, alignment is correct, lane keep on highway can be comfort and no correction needed as well
proton is the prime example of hydraulic steering done right
now their EPS also not bad based on review
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I have EPS now and when in drive a hydraulic, the hydraulic is rubbish , too heavy at low speed, too light at high speed

Unless speed varying hydraulic but that only on high end cars

Day to day, the non varying hydraulic is compromise between low and high speed but tend towards low speed light steering
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(alien13579 @ Jul 31 2017, 11:18 AM)
im now using EPS as well
but i had fun when i went back to my hydraulic car
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It's psychological and hype, hydraulic doesn't feel any better , EPS is a lot more precise , hydraulic is shotgun , hydraulic is scoped rifle
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(alien13579 @ Jul 31 2017, 11:33 AM)
its not better or worst or precise
ppl who love hydraulic is because of that feeling when u steer it
EPS is just dead, no feeling of steering the car at all
in simple word, its too soft, toyota one is way way way too soft laugh.gif
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There's No such thing as feel, you turn the steering it turns the wheels , a lot of it comes from the tyres not the steering

Just motoring journalism hype that consumers bought into , lol

If you can't steer a car properly because of a system , you shouldn't be driving .

It's all hype
rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 01:57 PM

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Unless your steering does this , stop whining


rcracer
post Jul 31 2017, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(waiora_protuner @ Jul 31 2017, 02:02 PM)
lotus cars use hydraulic or electric?
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No idea on that shit company
rcracer
post Aug 1 2017, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(waiora_protuner @ Jul 31 2017, 10:38 PM)
cause youre talking about handling, precision and feel..
i might introduce you to a company called Lotus, renowned for handling, precision, feel and sort of..
or Porsche, where the introduction of EPS had caused lots of dissatisfaction among the enthusiast..
Even the top hypercars like P1 and LaFerrari using hydraulic steering with the hydraulic pump is electrically powered..

or youre just talking about EPS on the Axia, Ertiga or Elantra level...
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Is all caused by stupid consumers swallowing journalism Shit ,

Because everyone believed the hype of hydraulic better, car makers just give them what they want ,

If everyone said hanging plastic balls at the rear bumper will give better stability , car makers will do it to sell their cars.


rcracer
post Aug 1 2017, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(tallrice @ Aug 1 2017, 10:18 AM)
it turn back at low speed but not fully...
i still need to do some adjustments...
but for me no problem coz the steering is light and easy to turn...
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Steering return to centre is affected by suspension geometry specially caster , nothing to do with power assistance or not and affected by speed

Same effect is seen on bicycle , you ride slowly the handle bars need constant correction, ride fast enough the handlebars maintain straight ahead and you can release your hands if your balance good enough

Same concept on a car , slow speed the caster effect is reduced , hence return to centre is not automatic


rcracer
post Aug 1 2017, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(netmatrix @ Aug 1 2017, 10:48 AM)
I wonder why yesterday no one noticed the blog vs the police report are different circumstances?
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Race , gender , car brand
rcracer
post Aug 1 2017, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(netmatrix @ Aug 1 2017, 10:51 AM)
True. But when you drive power assisted and non power assisted, the steering return to center speed also differs. Which is why sometimes i expect the steering to come back to me at certain turns but it does not on power assisted ones. Steering fight back to me is the one that determines feel. Hydraulic steering offers less road damping than electric ones. Non assisted feels like the whole steering assembly wanna fall off. hahaha.
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You realise that power steering was invented to eliminate steering kick back ?

And power steering doesn't react to wheel inputs , only steering inputs specifically to stop steering kick back .

This way the wheel remain straight forward when hitting a bump instead of jerking to the right or left

That is not feel , that mate is progress

rcracer
post Aug 1 2017, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(netmatrix @ Aug 1 2017, 11:17 AM)
No really the fight back is the one that determines how much angle you have input. When you have assist it remove some of the mental estimation that we are built with. We rewire ourselves to adapt to the assisted version. But to be fair i have driven non assisted version far more than assisted ones. First thing that comes to me when i drive assisted one is it REMOVED FEAR. In a way that is a good thing and bad thing. Steering kick back is only bad when you start to scream and cover your face when you hit an obstacle..... laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
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Its bad for controlling the car properly and maintaining directional control

This movie explains a lot and also why i always say steering feel is bullshit journalism , power steering is meant to remove feedback from wheels



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