Until today. Health organizations and scientists worldwide have never found any Avian Flu in swiftlets yet. Indonesia has bird flu problem. And their swiftlet population is world no.1. Still none of the H5N1 virus came from swiftlet. In fact the risk of having bird flu is way higher in chicken and duck farms. I'm not saying swiftlet has 0 chance of getting H5N1 but due to their natural behavior the chance of getting it is very thin. They don't share the same flight path as other birds, when they fly they never/can't stop to rest on lamp posts like other birds. Their short legs make them can only stop to rest/sleep in their home. Other bird species won't enter swiftlet farms as the place is too dark for them to live. They don't have echo-location like swiftlets do.
Nipah and JE only contracted from pig. Period.
Swiftlets' main food source is mosquito. In fact they help to reduce the population of mosquitos hence reduce chances of mosquitos contracted deseases.

This post has been edited by seeseng: Apr 26 2007, 11:06 PM

Logically swiftlet farm may become potential breeding ground for deseases. Thank god after 20 years of in house swiftlet farming in Malaysia and 80 years in Indonesia. No desease spread through this particular species of swiftlet yet{touch wood]} One of the rule for obtaining swiftlet farming license is monthly clearing of droppings. Farmers should follow the rules on their monthly visit to the farm including the use of special pesticide to prevent ticks(bird kutu). Currently the biggest problem is the chirping sound too loud problem. Farmers should change to long range and mid-range tweeters for external sound and internal sound should not exceed 40 decibels.

This post has been edited by seeseng: Apr 28 2007, 01:43 PM

For dBa measurement you'll need a sound meter/DB meter/decibel meter. Price at RM2xx locally. So far I haven't seen any local swiftlet farmer using it yet.
Night vision CCTV should be regarded as standard gear. Even my store-room size farm got 1.(same model as attached pic). I've seen farm installed up to 8 units of IR camera. Be sure to get CCD sensor based camera. CMOS sensor based is dirt cheap but poor picture quality. Mine the spec is 1/4" CCD with 24 IR leds. 1/3" will be better quality for longer sight range. You can monitor whatever inside the farm without the need to enter the farm. Intall a Streamyx line then you can monitor from any place with broadband connection world wide.
There's feedback from hygrostat supplier. The price is around RM400. The same model as the pics I posted before where a local/indonesia swiftlet equipment company selling at RM850 firm. It's a 3 in 1 device. It can be a timer on/off switch, a thermostat. i.e. trigger by temperature. 3)Hygrostat - trigger by humidity level. So anybody interested to buy? Myself getting 2 units.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 1 2007, 03:35 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

The CCTV depend on how many camera you want to use. The need for recording and online viewing. The distance from each camera to the monitoring room. Nowadays installing CCTV pretty cheap already. Mine all DIY. If don't want DIY can hire those CCTV installers. Nowadays more and more people doing this.

1) CCD sensor based 24LED-30LED IR camera is around RM200-RM300 each. (Mine below RM200 because dealer price. Need RM2K/ invoice)Be sure to get those with water-proof housing.

2) Cable. Use only real coaxial cable. No TV wire. Got RG59 or RG58 spec. RG59 is 75Ohm range from RM70 to RM100 / 300feet in 1 box. RG58 is 50Ohm & slightly smaller size. But RG58 is softer cable. Easier to do wiring job. RM50-RM80 per box 100Meter. Both spec price difference depend on China made or US made.

3)BNC connectors. Get those screw in type. Very comvenient no need soldering or clipping tools. Be sure to match your cable size. RG59 and RG58's BNC different size.

4) DV Recorder with network/Online viewing support. - RM880 - RM1000
4 channels, no need to use PC. Just pair up with a TV. Price come with no HardDisk.

5) Installation work. Normally RM120-RM150 per camera.

6) Internet. You'll need a phone line/account then a Streamyx A/C lah.

Here's pic quality for a few types of camera. Night vision mode will appear in grey. Will post that later at night. First pic is from 1/4" CCD IR Night vision Cam. 2nd is 1/3" CCD Dome Cam without IR. 3rd pic is sucky CMOS cam. Don't expect picture quality like digital camera lah they're video cams.

---

Added on May 8, 2007, 2:02 pmChirping sound too loud problem is actually the biggest problem any where in Malaysia. Many new farmers think the louder the better where it acutally not. Internal sound of over 40DB will appear un-natural, unreal to swiftlets. We fake the sound but don't want the swiftlet know it's fake. Overtuned tweeter will sound fake. For external sound is the longer range the better. But not to set the volume to very loud on bare tweeters. Farmers should use long range tweeters to boost the range and less disturbance to nearby neibours. Long range tweeters will double the range of chirping sound and cut down half the sound that distrurb the neibours.
If 5 lots away still can hear loud and clear is very loud. Probably over 70DB for single tweeter. Under licensing rule the external chirping sound is only allowed from 7:30am to 7:30pm. As for internal sound must not exceed 40DB at all time.
You should gather up those victims and talk nicely to the owner. Ask him to turn down the volume as it's too loud. Otherwise ask some wakil rakyat as middle man to do the talking. Swiftlet farm is not a small investment. Since he invested so much already it's not easy to just chase him away. Of course there are lots of ways to make swiftlets won't come or chase swiftlet away. The problem is when this happen, the owner might turn on the volume even LOUDER and louder to lure swiftlet to come. I've seen some not so successful farms did that. They keep incresing the volume every week. Still not much result. They only make the neibours suffer.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 8 2007, 03:48 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

Good idea. I'm in. I have a few CDs. 5-6 sets internal sound and 1 set external sound. Anyone interested can PM me for detail of exchange.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 9 2007, 08:49 AM

24 leds 1/4" CCD IR night vision camera in completely dark environment.



This post has been edited by seeseng: May 9 2007, 09:22 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

The CS mating potion is the one to spray on walls and floor(Product code MS-88). Not nesting plank. They have another type specially for nesting plank(code LNP-25). This one only to cover up the newly sawed wood smell. Meranti wood has very little smell but the newly sawed part will have something like burnt smell that swiftlet don't like. The potion is for faster cover up those smell. There is alternative for nesting plank potion. Experienced farmers use the water from soaking bird nest in cleaning process, filter up the feathers then spray the nesting planks with pressure spray. Some of them add those broken pieces of nest that do not have economy value into the water. Boil for few hours until the nest completely melt into the water. Cool down the water and spray on planks where no nest build there before. From experience we know area that already have nests before are easier to have nests build there. So they figure out it's the smell of old nest that attract new birds the build nest in that area.

CS mating potion is NOT ammonia. Ammonia+water only use in new farms to remove cement and other chemical smell like turning new farm into old farm and the price is way cheaper than mating potion. Mating potion=Perangsang walet where they call in Indonesia is a mix of liquid that contain smell swiftlets like.

Myself don't use ammonia for the whole place because my store-room farm is wooden and it's very old. I sprayed a bit ammonia on area I found rat droppings to cover up the smell.

The ammonia was from Nest Tech. Other farmer bought gave me a little.
Crystal's Grade A customers should be those hire them to be consultant of their farms I think. MSC-87 is older formula potion. For MS-88 you try to ask Sam to buy for you.
Alternatively you may try Nest Tech's potions.
1) Bird environment smell liquid - RM340 / 4 Liter (Extract from bird droppings)
2) Fast grow mating potion RM340/4Liter (Half potion mix half water)
3) Bird Nest hormone Liquid RM280/5Liter (1000ml potion+500ml-800ml water)
4) Bird ammonia - RM220/5L (1000ml ammonia mix 500ml water)

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 9 2007, 02:00 PM

Currently I haven't bought any potion. My plank work is still pending. My tukang kayu have undergoing project in hand. Only will come next week. I'm planning to buy the Bird Nest Hormone Liquid from Nest Tech as it has most of the characteristic of the other potions. For my farm size 1 bottle should last 3-4 months.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 10 2007, 01:15 PM

Have you done swiftlet counting in the early morning that come out from the entrance? You'll need the few days result in order to decide what to do next. The potion thing won't work if the basics are not achieved. Such as proper sound, interior designs, temperature etc. What I can tell you is there are very successful example and not so successful example of potion users. There's 1 long term farmer. Increase the bird stay from 50 to 700 in 9 months time with CS mating potion. There's another one after spraying potion, swiftlet stay become lesser. There's another one used it for a few months. His result is "no significant increase" as the company who's selling it claim "500% increase"

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 12 2007, 09:21 AM

Early morning entrance bird count is one of the method of bird couting without the need to enter the farm for base/nest counting or droppings couting. Even we enter the farm after the birds go out. Will still leave our human scent in the farm that make new coming birds feel uneasy. It's fact that only 30%-33% of staying birds build nests. For example 100 birds staying will have about 30-33 nests. Sometimes the numbers won't match maybe you have 200 staying birds but nests built only 30. In this case mean you have a lot of so call "lonely birds".
Definition of "Lonely Birds" :-
1)Birds not mature enaugh to mate yet.
2) Birds haven't found the right partner yet.
3) Birds that partner died or MIA (Swiftlets are lifetime soul mate)
4) Too old bird they stop breeding.

In case number 2 some said the use of mating potion will make them feel the need to find a partner fast. (According to mating potion sellers lah)

Temperature not same for 2 floors is consider normal. Lower floor will sure have lower temperature. The floor that taking direct sun light from the top will be hotter. As long as you can maintain below 30 degree during hottest time of the day should be ok.

The swiftlet become lesser case is results compared within one same week. I've read back the progress of the farm. It's steadily increasing now but 500% seems like a dream. Hard to achieve in real life.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 14 2007, 11:45 AM

Hi Swifbuild welcome to the forum. Feel free to discuss whatever topic regarding swiftlet farming here.
For suitable nesting planks material there should come with these characteristics:

1)Ordorless. Flavourless (This is why meranti is preferred)
2)Softer density
3) Dry
4) Rough surface
5) Darker colour prefered

In major meranti divided into 2 types. Land meranti and swampy meranti (meranti bakau). Only meranti grow on land is suitable for nesting plank. The most commonly used meranti for nesting plank in Malaysia should be "Meranti Kepong". Low density, light weight low land meranti.
Meranti seraya - Too expensive, too heavy, too hard. Good for furniture.
I have a chart of meranti by FRIM HERE.

My farm is using meranti bukit. Personally I'm not satisfied with the rather high density. But it's the most commonly used nesting plank material here in Terengganu. The plank supplier tailored all the meranti bukit wood into nesting planks with 8 shallow grooves. Price rather high @RM2.6K-2.7K / ton. The good thing about meranti bukit is it's very durable.

Most common size for nesting plank is 6" wide 1" think wood. I found that if we combine 2 x 3" wide 1" think wood into normal 6"w 1" wood we can save up to RM300 to RM500 / ton. Just the builder will need to do a bit more work. I've seen 2 farms own by the plank supplier use that. It works the same like 6" plank. With average farm size of 2.5 ton / floor can save more than RM1K already.
Another alternative way of saving $ is to get 0.7"(7hoon) thick wood rather than 1". It's thinner, lighter and cheaper. Light weight wood has the advantage of one day when farm 100% occupied. Can add expansion planks below existing planks for more rooms. In Indonesia over 10 years farms normally use this expansion method call terrace plank/pyramidal plank/staircase plank. Up to 5 levels of planks depending on the height of room.

Insecticide treated nesting plank. Should replace them with new planks or you're just wasting time. Even swiftlet mating potion not allowed to spray on nesting planks. It's the place featherless babies stay for 38-45 days before it can fly. Aerodramus Fuciphagus has very sensitive sense of smell. They won't build nest on planks that may potentially harm their babies.


Attached thumbnail(s)

http://www.sinchew.com.my/content.phtml?se...id=200705092140

News about Taman Sri Inderapura resident complain on bird chirping sound war. Keep increasing the volume will not help you lure more birds. I've seen 2 cases of volume at entrance hole too loud(new farms). The birds fly near the hole and turned away! After I asked the owner to turn down the volume the next day a few birds did go in to explore the farm.

Not only your town, swiftlet farming suddenly blooming nationwide. Sadly many of them are not following the rules and regulations that results in problems to the neighbourhood.

---

Added on May 16, 2007, 1:47 amThat farm in the picture is in Indonesia. It's a 12 years farm with over 10kg harvest EVERY MONTH! Yup, it's 5 layers of planks. It's a swiftlet condominium.

Can you describe some about your shop to be converted into swiftlet farm? Concrete or wooden? What type of ceiling? Not many out there daring enaugh to DIY their farm. I'm DIY to save cost and not to rely solely on consultants. Most consultants charge very high price. Your friend's farm after 2 years got 40 nests is 40 nests every month? Or The whole 2 years time only harvested 40 nests?

How they install the nesting planks depend on the type of ceiling. Mostly all I've seen use L shaped steel with 2 drilled hole to screw on the planks then another side screw on the ceiling. Concrete ceiling will be easier as you can drill hole any where u like. Put a plastic/wooden wall plug in the drilled hole then screw in. Wooden ceiling like mine is those with 4'x4' ceiling boards. Can only screw on the ceiling board frames. I bought a battery operated drill for the job. Can drill holes and use to screw in the screws fast.

Forget about nail-gun. You can't find it locally because it's illegal in Malaysian law. Even painball guns and BB bullet gun considered illegal in Malaysia. Paintball guns need fire-arm license to own by personal. The reason is it can cause injury. Not to mention nail-gun can kill. Just get a drill set with include screw driver heads will do the job well.

My farm is still under construction. My tukang kayu got jobs in hand. Waited 1 month for them. Today is the 2nd day they install the nesting planks. I only hire them to install nesting planks and build the dog kennel entrance on the roof. Others I DIY myself including plumbing jobs, sound system and CCTV. Actually I've planned for 2 years before I started the renovation. Within these period I spent time observing other farms, follow the swiftlets to see where they find food, where their routes to return hme and collectiong bird chirping CDs.

Since you're DIY your first phase should be farm design and costing calculation. Entrance hole, roving area and nesting area. If you're digging 4" pipe holes for ventilation remember not to make visible holes in front of the building. You might having trouble for licence approval later. For 20'x70' you'll need more than 1.5 ton depending on the distance of each planks. Mine started with 14" on the first day then 2nd day I asked them to use 16" distance.

---

Added on May 16, 2007, 1:48 amMy carpenter is rather cheap. RM100/day for 2 people working 9am-5pm. That's why I need to wait them for a month to come. They're freelance carpenters without company.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 16 2007, 01:53 AM

My previos post appeared to be misleaded. I've found pneumatic/air operated nail gun at machinery shops. Price below RM150. Some cheap China made model even below RM100. You'll need an air compressor to use it. It's uses special nail like staples. I'm going to use it to install 45degree wood to cover up the 90degree corners.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 16 2007, 05:20 PM

hi Swifbuild,

Your place seems to be a very strategic area for swiftlet farming. If everything go smooth it will produce very good results. I presume birds from other farms will migrate to your farm if they know about the existance of a farm in such rich food source area.

40 nests collected in 2 years is considered a failure. The high temperature should be the core problem. 62%RH in humidity I guess he's not using any humidifier at all? My farm's lowest humidity without humidifier on is higher than that. Mine can reach over 80%RH without humidifier at night because the place is at river side. We have exactly the same reasons to DIY swiftlet farm. Those consultrants, Their "can" and "cannot" all based on what others are doing. If there are people using such method, it can be applied. When I come out with some new ideas are "No no" just because nobody is using it. All without any explaination.

My nesting area is about 18'x38'. They finished the horizontal planks today. I've requested for 24" vertical partitions for each lines. They were mumbling about more corners created will results in lower grade nests. Yes of course I know. My goal for the 1st year is to generate as much bird population as possible. That's why those 24" partitions I requested them to use screw on. I can easily remove them when I have satisfied population growth. My corners will all be covered by 45 degree hormone treated wood by Nest Tech. So the grade of nest on 135degree surface will be better than 90degree. The tukang kayu mumbling again! The triagle holes after the 45degree wood nailed on will become cockroach nests. They thought I haven't thought of that? Just cut some PVC carpet then gun staple them to cover those holes.
The planks I'm using is 1" thick, 6" wide. Consider standard size for swiftlet farming. 1200 feet = 1 ton. I was thinking combining 2x 1" thick 3" wide plank. Up to RM500 cheaper for a ton. But I worry those carpenter will not do a fine job at the joint part. The length of my planks consist mis of 8', 9' and 10'. They have up to max 14' but I worried too long will be a problem when carrying them up the stair. I ordered mine from those "setor kayu" where they supply woods and building materials. I ordered 904 feet cost me RM1,950. One of the question before you order planks is to ask the supplier whether the woods are dry or not. New sawed woods from trees need to keep for about a year to be completely dry. Some big sawmill have a drying room to heat up the wood to make them dry. "Setor kayu"=no way. Lower density woods will be a lot different in weight for dry and wet wood. My meranti bukit as a type of middle density wood still can feel some weight difference. They supplied me with 20% of dried wood and others are new wood. My supplier only have 1" thick wood and their price is the cheapest I can find. So no choice of other thickness. I've asked another supplier in Kota Bharu Kelantan they supply "7 hoon" wood. Include shipping to my place is RM3K/ton. My price of RM2.6K/Ton is considered very cheap for meranti bukit.

My carpenters are those old fashioned kampung men. They've no intension to travel elsewehere for more profits. From their progress in my farm I predict they will take around 1 week to finish a 20'x70' farm for only nesting plank job. Your ground floor as an office is good idea. Can monitor the farm from CCTV there.

The purpose of roving area is to cut off lights from entrance hole and the curved flight path is the make swiftlet feel their nesting area is not too easy to reach by their predators. Swiftlets need 4'to 5' to make a turn so a 6' to 10' wide should be enaugh. My farm is small so I only reserved 5' wide for roving area.
You think 14" distance between planks is narrow? My tukang kau said they've made 6'-7' before. That's too narrow. Birds will suffocate when more nests built there. Mine first 1/4 using 14" then the others i changed to 16". Dr. Chris recommended minimum 12" and Mr. Phang Kam Wah recommended 16". I think 16" is more comfortable. BTW most successful farms can't even fully occupied after 5 years.
Correct. My ceiling is those with 4'x4' asbestos ceiling boards. Above that is very high zinc roof with over 20' height. It's very hot. Above the ceiling max 35degree. Below in the farm max up to 32degree. I have covered half the ceiling top with rock wool for heat insulation. Later will fully covered and add a layer of aluminium foil which people use for insulation in big air-cond ducts. Got the foil and rock wool FOC from a company previosly doing air cond ducting jobs. They're now in closing down stage. I have 2 spinning water sprinkler to be installed on the roof later on to cool down the zinc roof. Ventilation turbines are a bit costly to install though it doesn't need any power. One of my friend installed 4 units on the roof top of his farm. 2 units jammed after 2 years. I have an infra-red thermometer to measure the ceiling boards surface temperature so I will know which part need more heat insulation.
I only hope to achieve below 30degree all day long. That's the primary goal.

---

Added on May 16, 2007, 10:52 pmI'll ask the machinery shop whether they have the type of nail gun which come with mini compressor tomorrow. Otherwise I will just buy the normal nail gun. I can borrow the air compressor from a friend. Now this solved my riddle about how Nest Tech installed their 45degree planks on the corners. Because in their photos I can't see any nail heads. Confirmed they were using nail gun. The whole staple will go into the wood few mm below the surface. That's why they got a clean surface.

I chose dog kennel because my flooring in the farm is wood. No doubt open roof top style is the best. Flying swiftlets can easily see its existance. But under the hole you'll need a water catchment pool with proper drainage system. The catchment pool need to be water proof or the water might leak to the floor below. So in the buiding process the builder layed down a layer of fiber glass before cover with cement.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 16 2007, 10:54 PM

The birds do not afraid of light but they won't feel safe to nest at bright places. There are some self-coming swiftlets at the stair case in the front part of my farm. They've been living there for many years. People going up and down the stair, no humidifier, bright flourcent tubes, no bird chirping sound system. For many years the numbers of nest still the same. Mean there won't be new bird coming. Only the loyal old birds. In Thailand the situation is different. In some area birds don't have much choice of farm to live in. I've heard of a new farm in Songkla harvested 1KG in less than 6 months started.
The 45dg corner boards I used is to convert one 90dg angle into 2x 135dg. Birds still favour 135dg than flat 180dg. The boards I'm using are not ordinary plank. They're potion treated boards by Nest Tech. They've tested and proven birds prefer potion treated boards than ordinary corner boards. My aim at early stage also to build up populations. My planks design has more cubicle than others. More partitions=more corners. Size of cubicles are 48"x16" and 24"x16". This is to see they favour bigger partition or smaller partition.
I've bought the nail gun. RM195 for up to 2" brad nail. The smaller size for 1" nail is RM70. I'm using 1.5" brad nails to nail the corner boards. To lure those lazy birds to nest fast I have 30 synthetic nests to install at random places of the planks.
I started bird calling test 6 months ago from one of the window of my farm to test results of my CDs. Each CD play for a week. I have 8 CDs of chirping sound. I DIY 2 mid-range tweeters from 4" PVC pipes. One of my CD is quite a good one. Over 30 birds came into the farm to explore when I was still in there. They like the CD so much 2 birds charged into the PVC pipe and died inside. When I found them they already became 2 bird skeleton. Must put grills in front of long range/mid range tweeters.

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 18 2007, 10:42 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

My nailer, my planks, my mid range test tweeters and .... errrr may they rest in peace.


Attached thumbnail(s)

The nail gun is for up to 2" brad nail. I borrow a 2.5HP compressor from a friend. There's a smaller size gun but only can handle 1" nails. I'm using 1.5" nails for the corner boards. Your bird call test was very successful. I predict your farm will AT LEAST a 5A class farm after 6 months. So better get it start ASAP. I've no idea how bright is 1-2 Lux light intensity. Haven't tested. I will borrow a light meter from a photographer friend to test the light intensity for sure. Ideal light can be up to 3 Lux. For best accuracy try to find Minolta light meter. But I heard it's very expensive. Some photography people will have that. I heard with digital SLR camera also can test light intensity. Just take a snap without flash. The info will display on the screen.

---

Added on May 20, 2007, 2:46 pmThey really got nothing better to do. Keep thinking of new rules to create more headache for swiftlet farmers. What's wrong with DK style entrance? What's their reason to ban it?

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 21 2007, 01:25 PM