Rafa Benitez has again criticised the English method of developing young talent, claiming the reserve league system must undergo serious change.

The Liverpool boss believes young players require competitive matches to flourish, and wants the English FA to allow top clubs to be allowed to field reserve teams in the lower divisions.

"It is clear that the reserve system doesn't work," he said. "The reserve league is nothing.

"You can see youngsters playing just 18 games a season. That is nothing - certainly not enough for the development of these players.

"It is something that we can improve in this country, or if we do not change, we will find other solutions: sending youngsters out on loan, like I have done recently.

"I do not want to see reserve teams with four or five senior men playing without passion. These games are for young players."

He also does not feel it is of particular benefit to the players to be part of the first-team squad unless they can play first-team football.

"Between 18 and 21 years old in this country, the players do not know what to do. If they are good enough at 18, they are with the first team but on the bench all the time."

While learning his trade, Benitez worked as manager of Real Madrid's reserve team, Castilla, in the Spanish Segunda Division.

"I had players who were 18-19 years old playing in the Spanish second division championship.

"They were playing against men. They were winning and we finished sixth and fourth. The question is: what improves the quality of the players?

"You cannot play in a reserve league with players who are 34 years old and coming back from injury. They don't work hard.

"I would like to see reserve teams of the big clubs like ourselves playing in the Football League. Why not if they have enough quality?

"The key is that the young players may have quality, but not the experience for the first team. They are only on the bench. That will bridge the gap between the youngsters and the first team.

"If you do not give young players the chance to play competitive football and to learn things, things become impossible."

He added: "I am not too sure about them playing in League Two, either. They need really to be playing against good players, then they will learn more."

A host of lower league clubs have launched a stinging rebuff to Rafa Benitez's plans to allow reserve teams to enter the Football League.

Benitez and Premiership counterpart Jose Mourinho feel England should adopt the Spanish approach at lower levels, which allows 'B' sides from the country's big clubs to compete in league.

Benitez feels the current reserve format does not offer enough competitive football to his young players.

However, his ideas have been met with dismay in some quarters.

"It would never happen here, not in a million years," said Peterborough director football Barry Fry.

"The Football League is a thriving, 72-club competitive competition which is one of the best supported in the world - 16 million people watch it every season.

"No-one would want to watch the reserve teams of any club - I don't care if they're Real Madrid, Juventus or Fray Bentos!

"If Rafa Benitez wants his young players to get competitive games then all he has to do is loan them out to clubs like us."

Gillingham chairman Paul Scally added: "I can understand the rationale in loaning them out to Football League clubs, which is available to them now, but I don't envisage the situation of a nursery club system.

"That's not going to happen in our lifetime. It's insulting to suggest that a bunch of Liverpool kids could hack it as their own club in the Football League.

"The Football League has got far greater qualities than that.

"We've taken a lot of players on loan from the Premiership in the past and they haven't been up to it to be frank because they haven't had the grounding of coming through the youth system of a Football League club.

"Without a shadow of a doubt, if Premiership clubs want to blood their stars of the future, they should loan them out to the right clubs where they can cut their teeth."

Swindon chief Willie Carson was equally scathing of Benitez's plans.

"Why on Earth did this man say this? The system has worked just fine for years," he said.

"The top clubs loan their reserve players out to get top experience, so we take them on; they get better and we get better.

"Clubs like Manchester United are forever sending their youngsters out and it helps us and it helps them. It helps football. Rafael Benitez is being selfish. Simple.

"He wants his players to get better but no one else to get better with it.

"This system would help his lot for sure, but what about us lot that get pushed out? Someone has to make way for these teams.

"He should put something back into the game. His club has lots of money, why don't they see it better distributed? No, they want more, and we suffer for it."

Former Liverpool striker Michael Robinson, who is now a presenter on Spanish television as well as a part-owner in lower league club Cadiz in the country, is against the idea.

In Spain, the B teams cannot be promoted and certain rules govern which players a side can use as a player named in the first-team squad of a major club cannot then play for the reserve team.

"I think it's an awful idea, and another one of the great evidences where the rich get rich and poor get poorer," he said.

"The fact that you can't go up and play in the same league as the first team creates all sorts of problems for the other teams.

"How can you play in a competition under fair circumstances where no matter how well Real Madrid do, they cannot go up? So that affects their way of thinking.

"Here in Spain you get circumstances whereby if big clubs want to take players from their second team or third teams, that means that particular team, when it plays in their respective leagues, become an easier opponent for the team they are playing."

Peterborough director of football Barry Fry said Rafael Benitez's proposal "would never happen in a million years".

"The Football League is a thriving, 72-club competitive competition which is one of the best supported in the world - 16 million people watch it every season.

"No-one would want to watch the reserve teams of any club - I don't care if they're Real Madrid, Juventus or Fray Bentos!

"If Rafa Benitez wants his young players to get competitive games then all he has to do is loan them out to clubs like us."

Gillingham chairman Paul Scally believes the current loan system is more than adequate - because young players from Premiership clubs often struggle in the Football League.

"I can understand the rationale in loaning them out to Football League clubs, which is available to them now, but I don't envisage the situation of a nursery club system," he said.

"That's not going to happen in our lifetime.

"It's insulting to suggest that a bunch of Liverpool kids could hack it as their own club in the Football League.

"The Football League has got far greater qualities than that."

Mansfield manager Billy Dearden said English football would be scarred by the idea.

"It's a silly idea - out of order really. We are getting knocked about by people who are not from our football world."

Fry added: "Clubs like Peterborough are part of the community, as are clubs like Rochdale, Bury, Barnet, all these other clubs, and their supporters are only interested in supporting them," he said.

"They're not remotely interested in the Liverpools, Arsenals, Manchester Uniteds and Chelseas.

"They support their local clubs and you will never be able to take that out of the towns and the cities in this country."

by Dan Warren - BBC Sport 20 March 2007

In some ways Rafael Benitez is unlucky.

His suggestion of having reserve teams competing in the Football League would almost always win "crackpot idea of the month" award.

Unfortunately for Rafa, the Football League itself pipped him to it when, last week, it mulled over the notion of having penalty shoot-outs to decide drawn games.

But don't let that distract from what is, frankly, a ridiculous concept.

Liverpool boss Benitez and Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho before him have both suggested this on the basis that it happens on the continent.

Both managers are astute, intelligent men. But they've totally missed the point with this one.

The beauty of the 92 clubs in the Premiership and Football League is that every single one has its own identity, its own fanbase, its own soul.

Alright, the likes of, say, Mansfield, Bury or Rochdale may not have bulging trophy cabinets. They may lack a history littered with great cup finals and they may not have tons of former internationals on their list of ex-players.

But don't the big clubs have enough going for them? Do they want to squeeze the smaller clubs even further by starting to take extra places in the Football League?

If Benitez or Mourinho want their youngsters to get more experience in a competitive league why not - as Gillingham chairman Paul Scally says - loan players to smaller clubs?

Who in their right mind wants a league filled with reserve teams who will bring no support to grounds? Will that improve football for the lower league fans? I think perhaps not.

This concept may be in place in Spain and Germany, but does that mean it should therefore be in place over here? Of course not. Benitez's suggestion smacks of self-interest and shows a disappointing disregard for the history of football over here.

Can anyone out there put a decent case for this idea?

"I was the manager of Castille, Real Madrid's reserve side, and I had players who were 18, 19 years old playing in the Spanish second division championship," he added.

"They were playing against men. They were winning and we finished sixth and fourth.

"I would like to see reserve teams of the big clubs like ourselves playing in the Football League. Why not if they have enough quality ?"

In France, reserve teams play in the amateur fourth division (CFA) were they gain some competitive experience.

Nantes developed Marcel Desailly, Didier Deschamps and Christian Karembeu, all part of the 1998 World Cup winning squad, through their reserve team and have long been the best team in CFA.

Anyway i just want to clarify that only Castilla (RM B side) are competing in the Segunda A division (equivalent of the Championship) and are fighting against relegation (4th from bottom). Most of the other B teams are actually competing in the Segunda B division which is the third division. So thinking that the youth teams will be able to compete neck and neck with men is foolish imo.

Plus from what I read, it seems the 'B' teams in Spain cant be promoted to upper leagues (correct me if I am wrong  )? But in English lower leagues, team promotion is there. Lets say if Team A sent their reserve team to lower league and they won the league title and can be promoted to upper league, it might become a scenario where Team A vs Team A reserve in the upper league?

And who plays in the 3rd Division? Women? If most of them are good enough to play for 1st or 2nd Division sides, why can't they play against them?

Lets say all the 20 clubs in top flight sides send their reserve side to the lower divisions, that's additional 20 teams. So, unless they expand capasity of the lower division else like what the lower clubs said, some of the existing clubs might have to be pushed out and further down the league.

Trying to be sarcastic eh...
Well let me tell u that the youth teams aren't exactly setting the third division alight. The situation is very different than in England. There are alot more club sides in England than there are in Spain. And the football scene in Spain is such that it is dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona and that most Spanish youngsters dream of playing for either of the 2 sides. You don't have such passionate support for the local small clubs like they have in England. Why should these clubs be sacrificed to satisfy the whims of a foreigner?

We could adopt a similar system to the Germans. After the first and second division, the third league is regional, which means there are FOUR regional third divisions of equal value. In my reckoning that makes SIX top leagues, and we have only four at the moment ! The advantage of the regional system is:

    1. You are only ONE step away from the Championship, although you may have been playing in divison three before, but there are less promotion places.

    2. You save lots of money on travel by only visiting local teams and not having to travel from Exeter to Gateshead. And such distant away games have lower gates that local ones which makes you even more money.

    3. The fact you have FOUR regional leagues and at the moment we only have div 2, div 3 and div 4, means we have enough space to incorperate 20 reserve teams ! This wouldnt disadvantage anyone, because they are not displacing anyone. The reserve teams wouldnt be able to get promoted any higher, but can get relegated.

For the better good of English football. We are looking at this situation from the perspective of the small clubs. What about looking at it from the perspective of England. Will this not give English youth more opportunity to play against and therefore learn from top opposition. Managers are suggesting that top sides can still loan out their players to smaller clubs as has been going on for quite awhile now. What is the result of this? England have not won nor been in a major final for quite some time now. Worse still, they are struggling against the likes of Macedonia. Clearly there is a problem and it has to be addressed. How else for young players supposed to get competitive games?

Then what about the youths in the smaller clubs? Don't they deserve the same opportunity? Or is it that only the big clubs deserve to have youngsters playing for them. Changing your youth system doesn't necessarily mean that the standard of the English national team will improve. Look at Brazil. They don't have youth systems like the likes of England or Spain but they will always be one of the favourties come the WC.
It's not the youth system's fault that the England team is struggling in the national stage. The Spanish national team is struggling too...so how do u explain that?

Isn't the EPL regarded as one of the best leagues (if not the best if u believe some quarters of the English media) in the world?

As it is, there aren't enough English youngsters coming through the ranks. They get shipped out mostly. Why? Aren't they good enough? If so, why not? Could be that it is something in the water that affects the majority of Englishmen. Could also be that they don't play regularly enough at a higher level. As I have said, the Spanish are perennial underachievers. Having said that, Spanish teams still have a substantial composition of Spanish players as opposed to English ones, top sides of course.

Real Madrid themselves have Cassilas, Selgado, Ramos, Raul, Guti. Bravo, Helguera and Pavon to name a few, all of which are in and abouts the first team. Barca have Valdes, Puyol, Xavi, Oleguer and Iniesta.

The argument is that foreign talent is cheaper but why can't English players coming through the ranks compete with them? I'm pretty sure clubs would rather not spend on foreign talent if they could.

Of course it is but that is besides the point. The reason this idea was even brought up was for the reserve teams to get better exposure. It wasn't to improve the quality of the league.

But the fact is that argument is true. Foreign talent is cheaper. The prices that clubs slap on English youngsters is ridiculous forcing most managers to look abroad. But that has nothing to do with the youth system in the first place. It's a result of the EPL taking the commercial aspect of football to new heights.

That's just lying to yourself. You brought up the issue about England being not good enough in the first place. It's all about the quality at the end of the day. If you just wanted exposure let the reserve teams play more games by having them play each other 4 times a season (which would be pointless of course).

At Liverpool, promising English youngsters like Welsh and Thompson were shipped out. Fringe players like Mellor and Warnock didn't make the grade. This has nothing to do with foreign talent being cheaper, just better. I'm not going to dwelve into the youth development system which I do not know much about. I'm just bringing up the notion that these players could have made the grade had they received better exposure.

It's not just about the exposure, it is about the quality of opposition they play against. They argument here is that reserve teams 1) don't play enough games, 2) don't play against quality opposition.

You're just skimming the surface when it comes to foreign talent. Sure everyone knows the likes of Fabregas, C Ronaldo, etc. But there are also alot of foreign talent who don't make the grade. Just because u know a few English players who don't doesn't mean that the quality of English youngsters is as inferior as u are suggesting. For every fringe English player u can name, I can probably name u a Spanish one. That's just how it is.

Now you are just contradicting yourself. Stop taking me round in circles
But I agree with the 2 points...but i think the English should just stick to loaning players to lower division teams. It serves the same purpose. If Man Utd can do it with proven success i don't see why Rafa has anything to complain about.

Who have Man Utd loaned out that has come back to the club a success?

My question is simply, how come the composition of English players in English teams are so low compared to other leagues, even Spain?

Who have Man Utd loaned out that has come back to the club a success? The spending power of EPL clubs especially the top sides are increasing as foreign owners are coming in. With money to spend, you'd expect these clubs to buy the players they need. My concern with this is that local lads get less and less of an opportunity to break into the first team, that is unless they improve dramatically. What methods then can be implemented to improve the quality of these players?

sorry but may i ask, cant a feeder system within england work?

Each EPL club has to be linked with a Championship level club for a certain number of years or something like that? i know EPL has 20 teams and Championship side has more teams and what happens in the event of promotion or relegation but i am just suggesting.....

feeder system is slightly different from reserve team ,feeder system is where u get potential player from or send u potential player for experience/to gain europe country passport,like Dong from manutd team.while reserve team,the player already inside your team and u don have to pay the feeder club a single penny while u get to train the player yourself correct me if im wrong

nono. i am still with a reserve league but the real talented ones who are ready for first team but not at Chelsea or ManU, they go to the feeder clubs.

kinda how Johnny Evans and Simpson are doing at Sunderland while the young ones who are still learning tactics and the basic fundamentals stay at Reserve or Under 18s

why still go feeder club if they are kind of good?feeder club is club in lower league,loan the player to La liga side,english team is better,in higher league wat

well the debate is that the lower leagues are of higher standard than Reserve level

i nvr support setting up a reserve team club at lower league,is a good idea,but wont work in england,if the reserve team club set in the division 1 championship side,then i might support la,but in lower league,makes no different actually,well,mayb it does matter la but im not that pro to see it

If this happens .... Arsenal reserves , Chelsea reserves and ManUtd reserves can take top3 easily ...

well,this system is debateable
there are pros and cons
but i wondering why english talented player is so freaking expensive,wenger did mention before and i agree on it

example:
walcott for 17m,is he really rated at this price?well...i don't think so

It wont be as easy as u said. Remember that Man Utd's 2nd team (note: its 2nd team which consists some 1st teamer, not full reserve team) did draw with teams like Exeter City/Burton Albion and lost to Southend United in cup games.

So, to say the reserve teams from these 3 clubs will win it easily is rather over the top.
Another example, WBA slapped a 10-12mil price tag on Curtis Davies during the January transfer window 

Perhaps the English media play a part in jacking up the price? 

Simple. In other countries u don't have to pay ridiculous prices for local players. You could snap up a youngster from our youth side for less than 5m euros. How much did Theo Walcott cost again? And u get the big picture. The prices for English talent is way inflated. How much did Xabi Alonso cost u guys? Imagine if he were English. Do u think he would have cost the same?

Have u ever considered that they were never going to be good enough anyway? Playing at the highest level not only requires talent, it requires mental toughness. Most won't make it but some will. For Liverpool, Gerrard and Carragher are proof of that.

Why those BIGGER clubs wanna send their reserves to the lower tiers of the league to play?? Do they think their reserve team is much more better than the smaller clubs?? Where is the respect for the smaller clubs?? Mind you that even though Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal currently dominated the local league but they are not the ones who founded the League...

Accrington, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion & Wolverhampton Wanderers are the first of many who founded the English league..If Rafa's proposal are implemented, what will happen to these smaller clubs?? It shows that foreign managers are showing their disrespect to the English football...

Arsenal under Arsene Wenger managed to nurture their youngsters without any glitches...Why can't other teams do it as well?? As for the lack of quality English players being brought up nowadays, don't blame the system..aren't there are many English players playing for the smaller clubs?? Talent alone won't make someone a good player..they must have tough mentality coz playing for the big teams the pressure is different..so maybe the FA should be doing something about it...see what had happened to Stan Collymore, Francis Jeffers, Michael Ricketts, Michael Bridges and etc..they are good but not mentally tough enough to play for big clubs..

Comparing the Spanish and English league system is absolutely RIDICULOUS too..why?? Do Spain ever achieved something big at the International level?? Like their English counterparts..the answer is NO!..why?? I also dunno why but remember both teams are full with talents that every club in the WORLD wished to sign them...

This system won't work in England, where just for once it would be good to hear a Premiership manager ask what he could do for English football rather than what it could do for him

I do realise that the prices of English players are way inflated which is why EPL clubs look abroad. Up until now youth teams (e.g. under-18's) consists of mainly British players, some of which play for the reserve teams as well. Assuming that I manage the youth team for Liverpool, how best can I improve the quality of my players? Some say that great players are born, but good players can be made. I can impart as much theory on my young fledglings as possible but the fact remains that they still need real match exposure. Instead what happens today is that a large proportion of these youngsters do not make into the 1st team. They get picked up by championship sides and the better ones go to smaller EPL sides. In their place come young, arguably more talented youth players from countries like France, Spain, Germany and the rest of Europe. Why bring in youth players from abroad if mine are good enough? As you pointed out, they aren't good enough which is the problem. Why do you think this is so? Would playing competitive matches, more of them as a matter of fact help?

I throughly agree with this but how does one develop mental toughness. I used to play in various sporting competitions (though not on the big stage). I played handball, football, futsal, badminton and basketball (am currently playing in a tournament). What thing I do know is that mental toughness can be developed by exposure to competition. Of course you can send players for motivational courses and such but there is nothing like the real thing.

The point of playing the reserves in a lower league is because the argument that teams playing in the championship are stronger than reserve teams. Your argument is therefore invalid. How are they not respecting the smaller clubs? What does who founded the league have anything to do with it?
How are they disrespecting English football by wanting to improve it? By your reckoning, should ALL decisions of the EPL be made by only a committee comprising of these teams? Does it mean that if any other club like Man Utd were to win the league without their consent, it would be disrespectful to these teams?
And now many of these youngsters had to be brought in from abroad? They have already received training overseas before coming over. They aren't exactly raw diamonds.

How does one develop mental toughness? I don't know but perhaps playing competitive matches might help, don't you think? Jeffers has always been crap by the way and Stan Collymore lacked discipline. Ricketts had one good season, anyone can have a lucky streak, look at Darren Bent or Marlon Harewood. Bridges did play consistently for Leeds but he has constantly been plagued by injuries.
Aside from Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard, which other English player is being chased by a foreign team? How many English players are plying their trade overseas? How many made it? Far as I remember only Chris Waddle, Paul Gascoigne, Gary Lineker and to a far lesser extent David Platt made any progress.
It is the responsibility of the FA to improve English football. It is the responsibility of a Premiership manager to improve his team. Each is paid to perform their duties. While I do agree with the implementation of this system, I do accept that it has it's flaws. Instead of completely slamming the idea however, why not build on it? Obviously there is a case here and most people choose to slam it without offering a better solution. At least someone had the gall to say something. It is easy to sit here and ridicule but how about some constructive criticism?

Milan Mandaric has backed Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez's call for Premiership clubs to be allowed to field reserve sides in the Football League.

The Reds chief feels the progress of younger players is being stifled by the lack of competitive football open to them.

Benitez's proposal has met with some stiff opposition from clubs further down the leagues, but he has an ally in Leicester chief Mandaric.

"We owe it to supporters all over the country to give them the best quality product," he told Sky Sports News.

"If we can demonstrate that we can give a good product - even better than we have - I think it could work."

This is the problem ain't it...u don't think it's disrespectful that small clubs have to lose their places to reserve sides...clubs who have alot of history and passionate support through the years despite not being able to compete at the highest level.

It's nothing to do with who wins the EPL or who makes the decisions...The culture of English football should be respected and Rafa's comments just shows ignorance imo.
All the players mentioned had potential when they were younger. And it's not like they didn't have exposure to competitive matches. They just didn't make it. Whether more English players should play overseas is a different matter altogether. Most of them choose not to go overseas...it's not like they are not good enough.

And as i said before i'm not against the system as i like the way the Spanish do it. But i just believe that it won't work in England. You say we are not offering a solution...I already have...send the youngsters on loan...simple.

they need to do something with the reserve league. Whether this is the right way to go I don't know.  But unless they change the structure of the reserve league, then this is the best idea there is!

The amount of games they play is laughable. People are quick to whinge about the lack of chances for British players, or the lack of quality, is it any wonder? Many of these players don't get a chance to play enough competitive games at this age, it's laughable. If they can't play competitive games, how are they learning to compete and be winners?

As Rafa says - the real outstanding prospects will play at the highest level at the age of 18, but what about the next group of players? They need to play as well, and they don't get the chance to play enough competitive games.

The other way to do it imo, is for the reserve leagues to combine, rather than have the Northern teams just playing each other, and the southern teams playing each other. And also maybe to have a cup competition as well. Surely that way you'd get 40 or so games a season, which is what is needed.

And how about having some games on a weekend. Why not have weekend reserve games during international breaks, and have the games at the first teams home ground. It must be dissheartening for reserve teams to play in front of a few hundred people (if they are lucky), on a crappy Tuesday evening all the time. I'd much prefer to go see a reserve game on a Saturday afternoon, on an international weekend.

It is already happening. Clubs are beginning to lose their identity because the EPL is highly marketable. Already, clubs are being sold to foreign owners. Is this not contributing to a loss in identity? When Liverpool was sold, it brought an end to the Moores legacy, which was part of our identity. Arsenal have now moved into The Emirates from Highbury, was there not an ounce of identity lost it that? When Man Utd were sold, did they not faced with objections (to put it mildly) from their supporters?

How do you know English youth don't choose to go overseas? I've already touched on the issue of culture above. I for one value culture a lot, given that Liverpool is full of it. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere though. The way things are going, all the Premiership sides will be represented by foreigners while English players play in the lower divisions.

How is that any different from what is happening now? Sending players out on loan is nothing new. Some of these players don't get to play regularly enough even when they are on loan which defeats the purpose. Even when they do play, they seldom return. As you have quite rightly pointed out, perhaps it is because they simply weren't good enough but in a country where football is the no.1 sport, how can this be? Of course there are a few contributing factors (i.e. training routines, diet, etc) but match exposure if definitely one of them. Again, the argument here is that they don't play a sufficient number of games at a high enough level.

In conclusion, it will benefit the top sides and not the bottom ones so it depends on which perspective you are looking at it from. As a fan of my club, I only want the best for them. Perhaps having an extension of the reserve league is a more amicable solution.

What has identity got to do with it?? We aren't talking about losing identity..it's about respecting the football culture in England. The smaller clubs do not deserve to be demoted to the Conference league for example just because they have to make space for reserve sides. I don't understand how anyone can justify that? The only way i can see a compromise for this is if the reserve sides are forced to start right from the bottom..playing Conference sides if they have to.

It's not rocket science that English players prefer to play in England. Some ppl might not be happy with the current influx of foreigners but i personally don't see it escalating. There will always be English players who are good enough. The likes of Walcott, Lennon, Baines show that all is not lost when it comes to young English talent.

I agree that if a player is loaned out but doesnt get any games then it defeats the purpose. But the same thing would happen even if u allow reserve teams to compete at a higher level. Managers would stick to their strongest players and not all would get games. Both systems suffer from this. You have such a pretty picture of the youth system in Spain that even when u say u realize it has flaws i find it hard to believe that u actually do know what those flaws are.

I think for a topic such as this it's important to look at it objectively rather than from a biased point of view. Your suggestion could work but what's important is that the youngsters face quality opposition week in week out.

I didn't bring up the issue of identity. You mentioned the importance of preserving a clubs history. Doesn't that reflect a clubs identity?

Who is talking about demoting the smaller clubs? Did Rafa suggest that? What about having a bigger league with more fixtures to accommodate these teams rather than have them replace smaller clubs? What about as you say, starting they from the Conference? The same suggestion was mooted when Rangers and Celtic wanted in to the English League.

It is not nuclear physics that players prefer to play in their countries of origin. I have nothing against foreigners but I would like the core of my team to be of local origin. As it is, it bothers me that there isn't a next Stevie G or Jamie C waiting in the wings. Instead we have a host of players from as many countries as flavours in Baskin Robbins. While Rafa is speaking of developing ALL youth regardless of nationality, I'm touching specifically on English youth (i.e under 18s, etc). Speaking of Walcott, it shocked the whole of England that he was selected to the World Cup having no first team football experience. Was England that devoid of local footballers? It can be argued that this was down to the manager but it is no big secret that though there are a couple of promising young English players, there simply isn't enough of them.

Well instead of just saying it is flawed, why not point out why and how so that I may better understand? Repeating that is it over and over again isn't going to give me a better understanding of why.

Correct and as it is the majority of players that have gone out on loan either do not return and if they do, they have not improved. To me this indicates that there is room for improvement. How do you reckon this issue be addressed then?

Enough of my rumblings for now....anyway just want to comment what a great topic this is...kudos to u for bringing it up

Far be it for me to take credit for the work of others. It was actually alien2003 which opened the thread.

Far be it for me to take credit for the work of others. It was actually alien2003 which opened the thread.

Yeah but it was u who brought it up 1st in another thread.
Anyway kudos to alien2003 as well for opening this thread

They wanna do this to boost tickets sales?..As far as i know,the FA really dun care much about improving,so i really doubt it when they suggest this..

They wanna do this to boost tickets sales?..As far as i know,the FA really dun care much about improving,so i really doubt it when they suggest this..

Its not an idea from FA. Its juz a suggestion from Rafa Benitez

It still is different however because reserve teams also comprise of players returning from injury and are getting back into fitness. I doubt they'd give it their all on the pitch which again brings up the question of quality and competitiveness.

You have answered my point on why reserve teams should be included in the English League structures..

Let's say Liverpool reserves started frm the scratch (conference) and in the next few years they managed to get promoted to the Premier League, how do you expect Rafa pick his squad?? It isn't fair to other teams because the reserve team may or can use the Liverpool first team squad players when they are up against other teams..For example Bellamy can be playing for 2 different teams in the same league and last it would also defeat the purpose of giving the young players a chance to play competitive football coz for sure Rafa would choose some his senior players to play for the reserves team coz football nowadays is all about profit and fielding a weakened team won't get you any profit..

As i said before about the respect for the smaller clubs who founded the league way in 1888...what do you think happened to them if all the RICH and BIG clubs in PL such as Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool send their reserves team to play in the Championship?? As for Chelsea, sending their reserves team is like sending a team that can play in the PL anytime of the day..so those smaller clubs will struggle financially coz they can't compete with the bigger clubs to buy better players and offering them bigger wage...

For sure, if this idea is implemented those bigger clubs will invest their money on their reserves team to get better players and this will create UNEVEN 'playing field' for the other smaller clubs and slowly you can see the clubs 'GULUNG TIKAR' like what happened to Wimbledon..

DO NOT DISTURB the current English league structure..The best thing that the FA can do is revise and revamped the current Reserves League structure to make it more competitive

There will be rules in place like in Spain that won't allow the reserve team to be promoted to the same league as the first team so that situation won't happen. And also players from the first team will not allowed to play for the reserve team to help them in the lower divisions. Players from the reserve team however are allowed to play for the first team.

And i think u might be overreacting if u think reserve teams can compete at the same level as in the Premier League. If they start right from the bottom they will find it very hard to even reach the Championship. But i agree that more respect should be shown to the smaller clubs and that's why i don't see this system being implemented in England. And revising and revamping the current reserve league is easy for u to say without suggesting anything concrete as to how one would go about doing it. Spain's system regardless whether it is suitable for England or not is a proven system so most of the points u have tried to make are moot imo.

What do u meant by proven?? Producing world class players?? I think Spain produced the same amount of talented players like England do...btw do u see Spain winning any prestigious tournaments in the present and in the past?? 

But even though this system works in Spain, it won't definitely work in England coz it will affect the other clubs in the lower tier in the league..

It's just an assumption that IF the reserves team can make it to the upper tier of the league structure, what will happen..
What do u meant by proven?? Producing world class players?? I think Spain produced the same amount of talented players like England do...btw do u see Spain winning any prestigious tournaments in the present and in the past?? 

About the reserve league, why don't the FA just combined all the reserves league in one big league instead of separating it into different regions..

The same thing can be said of Holland who have yet to win the World Cup despite churning out so many talented individuals. As it is, England have not had a decent left-winger since John Barnes... this coming from a nation with rich history where football is the no.1 sport. It can't be that everyone born in England is right-footed. Even now you see the likes of Phil Neville filling in at right-back with Carragher having to play on the left. It says that England is devoid of talent doesn't it? Spain may not have won anything but there are no shortage of players coming through the ranks there.

Countries like Holland and Portugal produce alot more talent than England do as well but u don't see them winning the major tournaments.
It's a decent suggestion but does it ensure that by doing that the quality is improved and not just doing it for numbers....

As of this time now Spain are the U-17 world champs...and u look at the current generation of Spanish players...saying England produces just as much as Spain in terms of talent is just being ignorant.

It's a decent suggestion but does it ensure that by doing that the quality is improved and not just doing it for numbers....

England doesn't have any decent players who can play at the left side?? It's McLaren's fault who put Neville and Carragher at the left side, where as Leighton Baines, Matthew Taylor, Gareth Barry who can play at the left flank of England but were left out of the team..

Spain doesn't produce that plenty of left footed players either...Reyes, David Silva, Vicente, Pernia, Del Horno...who else?? They may have much more plenty options on the left winger side, but england outnumbered them on the left back side...

We are debating about the Rafa's proposition to have many competitive games for the reserves league right?? Why we have to debate about the youth development?? As for the academies players, i think they have plenty of competitive games to play, such as the Youth FA Cup, Youth regional league, Youth regional cups..

We can't simply revise the league structure for the sake of BIGGER clubs selfishly wishes to play their reserve team in the league...How to improve the reserve league overall quality?? It's all up to the gaffer and the players set their mind on how to approach each reserve game..do they willing to give their all for a friendly games where there is nothing at stake?? It's very hard to make the reserve league competitive coz most reserve teams in the PL comprises of 'reserve mati' players (who dun have the passion to play for the club anymore), lack of match fitness players (who maybe not willing to give their all coz they are afraid that they might get injured back) and some of the youth players who are included in the first team..

I'm sure you can also include a whole host of English left footed players plying their trade in the Championship. Question is "are they good enough"? Even if you play Baines, Taylor or Barry on the left flank, they are being played out of position and are just filling in for lack of a better option.

And the purpose of such a proposal is to ensure better development of the reserve players right? It is then related to youth development. Yes there are heaps of youth tournaments but they don't get to play against more seasoned veterans, hence the proposal for reserve teams to play in the league. Younger players then get the opportunity to play against hardened professionals at a competitive level. While I agree that this is perhaps not the best solution, it does have it's merits. It's all about ironing out the creases.

Why don't we just let those promising youngster out on loan to other smaller clubs..im sure that this smaller clubs would really appreciate this idea rather than forcing them to 'gulung tikar' coz of the selfish interest of bigger clubs..Not only this youngsters get more match experience but also they will learn how to mentally survive in a club that is fighting for survival or promotion..this will surely makes them a better player...some players who are not naturally gifted such as Frank Lampard has experience this with West Ham and this makes him works harder to become a BETTER player

England doesn't have any decent players who can play at the left side?? It's McLaren's fault who put Neville and Carragher at the left side, where as Leighton Baines, Matthew Taylor, Gareth Barry who can play at the left flank of England but were left out of the team..

Spain doesn't produce that plenty of left footed players either...Reyes, David Silva, Vicente, Pernia, Del Horno...who else?? They may have much more plenty options on the left winger side, but england outnumbered them on the left back side...

Portugal produces much more talents than England?? I'll doubt that..If they have plenty of young talents, why they still call up the likes of Figo, Pauleta, Costinha, Gomes, Valente into their squad?? The only youngsters that managed to get into the squad are Nani, Moutinho and Manuel Da Costa...where as England has Dawson, Downing, Lennon, Richards, Nugent waiting on the wings...

but how many of them gonna become WORLD CLASS players?? How many of them gonna be an END PRODUCT?? I may don't have much knowledge in Spanish football like you do but at the end of the day most of this talented youngsters will go to waste coz they don't have mental toughness which is needed in modern footballers nowadays..that WE can't develop for them...they must develop it themselves...for example Hugo Viana...last time, he's one of the most sought after talented youngter in Europe but look where he is right now?? Playing for Valencia's reserve team...

We are debating about the Rafa's proposition to have many competitive games for the reserves league right?? Why we have to debate about the youth development?? As for the academies players, i think they have plenty of competitive games to play, such as the Youth FA Cup, Youth regional league, Youth regional cups..

We can't simply revise the league structure for the sake of BIGGER clubs selfishly wishes to play their reserve team in the league...How to improve the reserve league overall quality?? It's all up to the gaffer and the players set their mind on how to approach each reserve game..do they willing to give their all for a friendly games where there is nothing at stake?? It's very hard to make the reserve league competitive coz most reserve teams in the PL comprises of 'reserve mati' players (who dun have the passion to play for the club anymore), lack of match fitness players (who maybe not willing to give their all coz they are afraid that they might get injured back) and some of the youth players who are included in the first team..

We are debating the HIDDEN AGENDA on why Rafa and Mourinho wanted the their reserves team wanna play in the same league like their first team..as for the youth academies, lack of competitive matches is not a problem as I've said before they are involved in various competitions..Those two gaffer doesn't want to play their expensively 'purchased' youngsters in the youth team coz it's not appropriate for them to play with younger lads..They wanted their 'purchased' youngsters to involved in a much more competitive league but there's nothing at stake..why just they send those promising youngsters to other smaller teams?? like Wenger did..it's maybe because they don't want to release their 'EXPENSIVE YOUNGSTERS' to other smaller clubs so they bring up this TOPIC

I'm baffled by this...what are England's options on the left wing? Joe Cole is right footed.  And Pernia, Del Horno and Antonio Lopez are Spain's current left backs. How many LBs do u need in a team?? Nice try pulling out "facts" out of your a**.

What does producing talent have to do with the senior national side? You need some experience in the national side...Besides Figo and Pauleta have retired...and i dunno about u but i would classify the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Quaresma as still young players. The players u named for England...how many of them are actually good enough in the international stage...so far only Lennon has impressed.
I agree with u that not all of them will be world class players but that ain't the issue here aint it.

We are talking about youngsters getting developed by playing quality opposition. How they turn out is a different issue.

And again Hugo Viana is a squad player in Valencia's first team...sure he may not have reached his potential but no 1 can doubt that he possesses good technique which is what u want to train into youngsters 1st.

We aren't talking about academies...we are talking about players who have come out of those academies and how they are continuing their development. As it is in England they play in the reserve leagues which some say isn't competitive enough. That's what this debate is about. That is the problem with the reserve system isnt it. I have since suggested that the English should continue doing what they have always done...send these players on loan and have a clause written to stipulate that these youngsters must play a minimum number of games or risk compensation. Duke Red is favouring a system similar to Spain's with some compromises.

I have no interest in Rafa's or Mourinho's intentions cause they are entitled to their opinion...but I would have liked for them to show more respect to the English culture
However your accusations that they don't want to release their youngsters is pretty absurd...they can always send them on loan as they have done so with some players already.

Wanna see my nice A**?? All the girls i've known have been complimenting my nice a**

As i've said, England produces plenty left backs and not plenty of left wingers where as Spain produces plenty wingers too but not plenty of left backs..Nowadays it's very hard to see any WORLD CLASS left sided players since Ginola, Giggs which can set the world alight...can u name me any WORLD CLASS left sided midfielders from Argentina and Brazil (two countries that never short of football talent)...In the last World Cup both countries have using Ronaldinho (right sided player) and Sorin (defender) as their left winger...

That's the point...you've been saying that Portugal is producing plenty talents than England where are they?? The only time Portugal produced plenty of talents are in the early 90's during the Golden Generation of Portugal..

Of course they needed to play against quality opposition..but how would you like to propose that??

Those techniques can be learn during training..you don't need to have competitive matches to learn those techniques..A good player is the one who can only make use the technique he learns during training coz even though you're good in training but if u can't repeat the same technique during a competitive match then u're useless like Malaysian players..I saw their training session many times (they were really good) but during the match day, not even one skill comes out..why?? They were sent to train in foreign countries, played competitive matches...but why they still suxx?? It's because they don't have the mental toughness when they were up and against superior team than them..

This is really a good idea..

The young players that they have signed such as Palleta, El Zhar, Ben Sahar, they are good enough to play for the lower division clubs but why they are still at the club?? Don't tell me that none of the clubs in the championship don't have any intentions to get them on loan..most of the clubs down there can't afford to buy players, why they don't go and try to get some of the youngsters on loan from the bigger clubs...

Ronaldinho is left sided although he is right footed...he's not a right sided player...don't confuse left sided with left footed...and isn't Messi left footed?

You say England produces alot of LB's but how many of them are really world class as u put it? Then i can also say every footballing country can produce alot of left backs...What's there to substantiate that England produces more leftbacks than Spain (or any country for that matter)?? I personally dunno where u get that from.

Aren't C Ronaldo, Quaresma, Moutinho, Miguel players u would consider good young talents who have proven themselves on the international stage? Why don't u tell me where England's talents are then?

I think some of them do...but most seem reluctant to gamble on youngsters...there's nothing more pissing off to me than a club getting a youngster on loan and then not playing him at all. This is why we are saying that the system needs to be improved.

The national team's troubles can be traced back to the formation of the Premier League and the resulting influx of foreign stars.

In June 1991, when the Football Association supported the plot by England's First Division clubs to break away from sharing money with those in the other three divisions, they promised it was to improve the England team. All in football knew the decision was really infested by politics: the big clubs were determined to keep the millions about to pour in from satellite television, while the FA wanted to smash the Football League to win a dreary administrative turf war of its own.

So the FA produced its Blueprint for the Future of Football, a flabby document obsessing about fans' disposable income, with one explosive recommendation at its core: that the top clubs should be allowed to have their separate Premier League.

"The prospects of success for the England Team would, at once, be enhanced," the blueprint proclaimed, although it never convincingly explained how.

The plan was that the First Division clubs would break free of the Football League and its century-old system of sharing money between large and small. The new Premier League would shrink to 18 clubs by 1996-97, allowing for fewer matches, fresher players and more time for international get-togethers. Improved, overhauled coaching would help power the England team to the top of the world.

English football's renaissance after Hillsborough had begun a year earlier, when England overcame a turgid start to gallop to the semi-final of the 1990 World Cup in Italy, ultimately, undeservedly, going out to Germany on penalties.

Fifteen years on from the formation of the Premier League the 20 clubs - slimmed from 22 but never as far as 18 - are triumphant; bank accounts poised to accept the first slug of next year's barely believable £2.7bn TV deal. Several chairmen-owners who agitated originally for the breakaway have made millions by selling out to businessmen queuing up for a share of the game's global media revenues. On the field Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool, all foreign-owned, crowd the last eight of the Champions League.

Yet internationally England have never matched that 1990 performance, achieved before the Premier League was formed supposedly to improve the team. The current players stumble about like strangers, denounced by a crowd scorning the money they make. For the superstars of the Premiership Andorra is a massive game.

The reasons for this are many, although we should not overstate the difference between the 1990 achievement and now: England reached the semi-final then only thanks to David Platt's injury-time volley against Belgium and two Gary Lineker penalties in the quarter final against Cameroon. In the two most recent major tournaments England have made it to the quarter-finals, only to go out on penalties. Perhaps a manager other than Steve McClaren would be wresting inspired, joined-up performances from today's team; perhaps not.

Last weekend Trevor Brooking, the FA's technical director, lamented that the English game lacks talent in depth, pointing out that, with no Ashley Cole, Wayne Bridge or Gary Neville, England had no recognised right- or left-back to play against Israel. He might also have noticed a hole where a creative midfielder ought to be, the lack - Stewart Downing apart - of a left-footed attacking midfield player and, with Michael Owen still injured, the absence of an internationally feared striker to play alongside the moody Wayne Rooney.

There is one clear reason for this shortage of players to choose from: the paucity of English footballers turning out at all in the Premiership. When the Premiership's "whole new ball game" kicked off in 1992-93, flush with the first TV deal, worth £305m, only 11 non-British players featured in all the clubs' starting line-ups. Of the first-choice players lining up for the four top clubs in the most recent Premiership matches a week and a half ago only 11 were English. Gary Neville, Rio Ferdinand, Michael Carrick and Rooney started Manchester United's 4-1 win over Bolton; John Terry, Ashley Cole, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Frank Lampard began Chelsea's 3-0 victory over Sheffield United; only Justin Hoyte started for Arsenal against Everton while in Liverpool's side that played Aston Villa only Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard were English.

After 1992, as the money grew, English clubs could pay to attract world stars; Jurgen Klinsmann, Gianfranco Zola and Juninho were among the first to fire the imagination and clubs began to compete to hunt overseas talent. Top players, such as Lampard, point out how much they have improved by playing alongside the world's greats but opportunities for the next generation of English players have become painfully limited. The link between the top division and the rest has been broken not only financially but in terms of players' careers. Those who came so close on the world stage in 1990 learned their craft gradually, gaining experience mostly in the lower divisions or even, as with Stuart Pearce and Chris Waddle, in non-league football. Now Premier League clubs rarely take a chance on players from the Football League while the non-leagues - the odd DJ Campbell aside - are another country.

Top managers, releasing dozens of players every year who have come through their academies, grapple with sporting and financial stakes so high that they cannot afford to "blood" young players in the way they used to. The money is there to buy ready-made stars, the scouting extends for the most promising youngsters all over the world, so only truly outstanding English players at 16 have a hope of breaking through at the top clubs - and even then, as Theo Walcott is finding, games are limited.

In 1997, flush with the commercial success that followed the Premier League's launch, Howard Wilkinson produced his Charter for Quality, overhauling youth football in favour of the big clubs. Now crowds of boys from as young as eight are signed into clubs' academies, taken out of the school and youth teams that traditionally drilled English talent. For years teachers and youth coaches complained that the trawl is too wide and the coaching too uncertain to justify it - quite apart from the fact that at the same time the clubs have gone shopping for foreign players and so drastically reduced first-team opportunities for their own young graduates. The Premier League waved these objections away, although its head of youth development, Dave Richardson, did admit more recently that the clubs were not sure how to recruit the right players, or coach them, so young.

Now, 10 years on, a review is under way, in which the clubs' argue that they should be allowed to enlist boys from further afield, at younger ages, and not be restricted to local English players.

Contrary to the disingenuous rhetoric about the England team which ushered it in, the Premier League has undermined, rather than boosted, the FA's authority. Clubs are consumed by their own ambitions, not England's, and a period of European domination appears within reach now of those cosmopolitan squads. The England team, stocked with the few homegrown players to come through, and managed by one of only a handful of Englishmen even remotely qualified, comes round as an occasional embarrassment, raising a few difficult questions, all to be comfortably forgotten when Saturday comes.

Humble origins

None of the players in the England team that reached the World Cup semi-final in 1990 spent his formative years at the biggest clubs:

Peter Shilton Began career at Leicester City, 1966-74, including two seasons in the Second Division

Paul Parker Played at Fulham in the Second and Third Divisions, 1982-87, before joining QPR in the First

Stuart Pearce Played his first five seasons for non-league Wealdstone before joining Coventry in 1983

Des Walker Spent the first nine years of his career with Nottingham Forest

Terry Butcher Made his England debut in 1980 while at Ipswich

Mark Wright Played for Oxford before joining First Division Southampton in 1982

David Platt Played his first three seasons for Crewe in the Fourth Division

Chris Waddle Played for Tow Law Town in the Northern League before Newcastle signed him in 1980

Paul Gascoigne Came through at Newcastle United in 1985, then struggling to stay in the First Division

Peter Beardsley Began league career at Carlisle in Third Division, 1979-82

Gary Lineker Made his first 214 appearances for Leicester, 1978-85

but traditionally any team that employ 4-4-2 system would prefer a left winger with a left foot..of course a player like Henry and Ronaldinho is a left sided player with a right foot but they do not normally stick in one area of the pitch..they were given a license to roam where ever they like...

It's just my from my current observation...even though i watched and followed the PL more than La Liga but it seems that PL clubs using more english left backs than LaLiga clubs using spanish bred leftbacks..plz correct me if im wrong

Miguel?? The Valencia right back?? Isn't he is more than 25 edi??..Even though C.Ronaldo is still young but i can't consider him as a young player coz he's played plenty of games edi for both clubs and country..even Steve McMahon said it b4..

As for Moutinho and Quaresma..only Quaresma started playing in the first 11 after Figo retired..why does Barca sold him at the first place?? For me, he's still not good enough coz he's quite selfish in his play and inconsistent..he doesn't live up to his true potential yet..Moutinho still needs more time to learn and i think it's very hard for him to break into the first eleven in the next few yrs (bcoz of Deco) unless he moved on to another club in another country..

As for England, i've seen Barry, Baines, Taylor have been consistent throughout the season and although i do not rate them as WORLD CLASS players but they still good enough to wear the England shirt..It's not easy to produce world class talent nowadays, so it's up to the player himself whether he wanted to be much more better than he is right now or just be content with his pay pocket right now..

Even though we gave this youngsters more competitive games, it's their attitude that counts the most..if they don't work hard then they will become flops like Jeffers and M.Bridges..only those who work hard such as Lampard, Zidane, Grosso, L.Toni who peaked late in their footballing careers can be WORLD CLASS

This i have to agree with you that the loan system needs some improvement..but i've to ask you that why a club tried so hard to get a young player on loan and fills up their precious 2 loan quota but didn't play the player?? there must be a reason ain it?? It's either the player impresses them during scouting mission but fail to live up to their expectations when the player come and train with them or the player just can't cope with physical demand of the game..

As you said before, normally a loanee wont return to their club..why?? They ain't good enough..For sure the managers who loaned their players to other clubs will keep track of their progress and see whether they have improved..If they do not improve though they played every competitive match for their loan club, of course they get sold

Yeah...and the only left footed winger in the current England squad is Downing...but that doesn't mean England are devoid of traditional left wingers
4158

Wenger loves Rafa's idea

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has welcomed Rafa Benitez's idea to have reserve teams playing in the Football League.

Benitez has called for the system, which is already in place in Spain, to be brought into the English game.

Chelsea chief Jose Mourinho has also shown support for the idea, with the chance to field the club's youngsters in the lower leagues.

Wenger has allowed the likes of Nicklas Bendtner, Alex Song and Fabrice Muamba to go out on loan to get regular first-team football.

But the Gunners boss would prefer to keep all his players together and believes the current system is failing.

"I would love it," Wenger told the club's official website.

"What used to happen is that you had a reserve league and an Under 18s league, which was very important.

"What has happened now is the Under 18s league has transferred to the reserve league while the Under 18s has lost a little.

"When you look at it these days, 90 per cent of the reserve games are played with Under 18 players so one may have to be cut off.

"We have many players who play on Saturday (for the Under 18s) and on Monday for the reserves.

"That means they play too many games and cannot practise."

Ridiculous. The other teams in the lower leagues have just as much history as most of the clubs in the premier league. To suggest that the top team reserves play in them is just down right disrespectful. How is it disrespectful? You have a 72 club system going on and suddenly young players who are probably not going to make the cut in the top teams are going to come in and start playing against you? Reducing the amount of clubs in a certain tier? So all the top 20 clubs in the premier league? That makes what, 20 extra "clubs" that have to join the lower leagues?

Rafa should know this isn't Spain, he needs to learn respect.

Yeah...and the only left footed winger in the current England squad is Downing...but that doesn't mean England are devoid of traditional left wingers

About 15 out of the 20 La Liga teams are using Spanish LBs...you only got that impression because you are comparing the top sides: Barca, Real and Sevilla to all the EPL clubs. Again..apples and oranges. How many top class English LB's do the top 4 EPL sides have? Ashley Cole is about it...Besides when u state that England produces more LBs u have to take in account the whole country not just the top 20 teams imo. There's still nothing to back your claim thr,

Miguel is 27 already my mistake...And just because C Ronaldo has alot of experience still doesn't make him any less a young player. Who does England have that is comparable to Ronaldo at his age?

How do u know they are good enough to play for England if they havent even got their first senior cap? It's still up in the air for me...

Of course England are lacking of left footed winger...but as long as you can find a right footed player that can play at the left side of team is okay what..like Ronaldinho did for Brazil...

You have forgotten about Wayne Bridge...if you said 15 out of 20 La Liga teams are using Spanish left backs, are they good enough??    Give me some names except for Pernia and Del Horno..

Wayne Rooney...

How does the football pundits knows that a player is good enough to play for England?? By evaluating their performances for their clubs of course and Baines, Barry, Nolan, Barton has been performing well enough for their clubs for the past few seasons that merits them a place in the England squad...