howl of terror is a fear

also, unless ur shadowbolt is ruin/imp sb proc enabled having nightfall/backlash proc back to back crits, ur not gonna 2-3 shot priests like you do pre-bc with SM/conflag build locks used to do. and so long they get as much as ONE second, they can heal the crap outta you. dont forget, stamina cost is reduced and priests have a ton more survivability than you.

they're mana DEFINATELY can outlast you. the only offset is mana drain on priest, but if the priest spec a wee bit in shadows for silence, ur done.

the only warlock that has an ABSOLUTE chance to gurantee kill healing/holy priests in any situation is UA specced locks with felhunter out, any other spec/setting locks just dont have that capability.

but yea, this is holy priest, wait till the priest walks the dark path... kek!

theres this awesome thing call resistance, diminishing returns (DR), trinket, PWS, resilience, and stamina. ASSUMING ur SF and shadowfury critted, with GCD and everything into account, priest already healed at least twice with renew ticks goin on and prolly refreshed his PWS. dont forget: GCD (Global Cool Down)

destro locks do have advantage over shadow priest due to higher burst dmg, and shadow priests do not have the healing ability to counter it, however, it wont be easy mode breakfast that i can gurantee you. thing bout destro locks is that, most likely crits are heavily reliant, while the shadow priest, or normal locks, are using dots as their primary dmg, dots bypass resilience, DD and crits dont, they get negated heavily.

shopboy: succy isnt for dps, succy is to seduce nuke, soulfire and immo--> conflag/DC everything chained on your head if all critted, chances are you cant even use your beloved PWS + renew at all and just fall flat on your face.

and destro pvp locks dont cast SB, they spam searing pain, and believe me, it will cause tremendous ammount of pain to you if the lock gets lucky on crits.

also, you do NOT want to dispel UA (unstable affliction). you just dont.

and, no succy melee is not required, their charm can penetrate even the holiest of priests (/giggle)

lastly, if you ACTUALLY browsed the priest forum more, they whine more bout pvp more than they whine getting outhealed. chances are, the priests that gets out healed are 1) noobs 2) shadowlolspec

sets84: netherprot only shields on shadow, priest holy can still do the job.

back to replying shopboy: they definately arent another firemage even though most of their dmg are fire based, you'd be surprised if you get ur hands on a competant destro lock

seen: while ur draining ur melee stops. so it didnt really mattered.

stardust: not late game, rather since WoW 2.0 and TBC. rogues recieved their much needed buffs in pvp and some bits in pve. they were getting close to useless as the patches goes by until finally 2.0 they made a come back.

and if the rogue is properly pvp geared/specced, and is competant in his combos/skills/timing, vs an equalvalent warlock, unless the said warlock is felguard specced, the rogue wins hands down. afflict/destro dies too easily with 1.4-1.8k sinisterstrike crits (yes, SS) spammed on their face or the insane 2-4k double crit mutilate following up with cb evis, or hell, the perma stun legacy hemo rogues.

heemee: you are correct, however, the priest dont have to spec deep into disc and have a hybrid of holy/disc and they are still viable in any arena brackets. dont forget, their holy dps comes from their holy tree, and do NOT underestimate their holy dps, i know my arena team did and we payed a hefty price.

ray123: get a partner, im currently paired with a restore sham in arena 2v2 and we are ROCKIN! ^-^ and i dare say the majority of our wins are basically heavily reliant on him.

replying shopboy again: GCD is NOT instant. thats 1.5 second NOT including tmnut's latency, mind you.

also, fire mages now compared to before is a whole different level, they dont even NEED POM or trinkets/AP to kill you. scorch spams stacked to 5 and you WILL have trouble outhealing his dps. then coupled with dragon breath and counterspell to interrupt ur heals, it WONT be an easy fight i can gurantee, and if the fire mage is a good pvp'er and decently if not well geared, he can put you to sleep within 4-7 seconds. (fireball crit for 5k anyone? smokin) OH HAY WE FORGOT IGNITES LLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

seen again: prayer of lol spammmending

stardust: thats only true if its 1v1, group pvp it will no longer have any "best priest spec". any tree is viable so long you focused on a pvp build (taking up talents that benefits the priest in pvp eg: deep in holy theres blessed resilience, thats holy for you)

sets84: spellhit/spell pene doesnt get through resilience.

and what sort of trinket ur talking about? dmg trinkets? they dont really do much in this scenario here. and ive mentioned earlier on seduce's weaknesses. if you COE, you cant COA/COT, its a tradeoff right here. while COE does give you a dmg boost, compared to back then's negative resist, COE now isnt that realistic in terms of pvp dmg boossting. (hence why they implemented spell pene and spell hit to accomodate this nerf)

havent ventured much into kara yet, but latency + pve as a melee = /cry

examples: zg bomb bats. anyone? corpse blewed up at 20ish yard away from the bat -> lol?

seen: heh yea, back in the decursive days, locks are definately taking it hard with their things getting spam /decursive. drain also if the player is an american/low latency player, the drain cant even drain 1 tick also get decursive raped.

and that was prayer of mending pre-nerf. theres no cooldown, so priest can spam instant heals over and over again so long their mana can support.

post recent patch, there is now a 10 second cooldown

for BM hunters, if ur talking bout 1v1, simple, be felguard specced and have ur pet be bigger than him, lawl. make sure you *TRY* to kite his double beast timers and try to waste it, and once his double timer is down, game him. keep the pet chained fear too and do NOTHING to it. if possible, waste a GCD to COS the pet before fear, you dont want ur fear getting resisted/early breaks. ideally, it would be better to start out with berry, to soak up the double beast timers dmg, and finishing it with a sac for shield, then use DM to summon oout a felguard and re-SL once ur ready to counter atk. make sure you keep a good distance from the hunter too to avoid being trap cc, if he trap you and finish ur pet, ur done.

if you are afflict/destro, the only thing you can do is burst him down before he kills you. you can also attempt to sac ur VW to hold off some dmg before he kills you and spare you more time for you to burn him down.

for spell reflect, its not too bad for afflict locks, but for destro locks that has lotsa DD burst dmg, getting those spells reflected back (it gives a buff on the warrior for a few sec and during that period EVERYTHING reflects) AND critting you can be very VERY humiliating. (theres many MANY cases where mages go AP POM fireball pyro fireblast and getting ALL 3 of those reflected back and instantly self killed)

in pure organized high end arena/pvp, the only thing that really matters in terms of equipment build up is stamina and resilience. TRY taking ur shots at a post 200 resi character. and switch back to a character with 0 resilience. for pure testing purposes you can even try rank 1's DD's to get a bigger idea on the difference.

spell dmg/ap/stats (excluding stamina) is for pve ala dmg meters. in pvp, especially organized rated high end arenas, its not who that deals the biggest dmg, hell EVERYONE CAN DO THAT WITH EASE. its who that can survive the most and ultimately be victorious in the match.

as a matter of fact, survivability is what holy priests does the worst in high end arenas

and no, even with just stand still you spam heal he spam dmg, he can out dps ur healings. unless you do plan to dispel his ignites, but that would be out of context considering you said the priest is just doing nothing but spam healing

and in between a competant shadow priest and a holy dps priest, shadow wins hands down, cant even debate that shit.

as for the circling thing, theres this awesome thing of holding down ur right mouse button. try it.

think you missed the point right there


regardless of that, good firemage still > good holy priest healing abilities if its a straight casting battle with no timers or cs/fear etc.

the ONLY damn thing you achieve by stepping in to MELEE a competant fire mage is:
1) take pointless molten armor damage, which is CRITABLE, IMPACT PROCCABLE.
2) get KITED, as a CASTER, to take additional pointless damage from the mage's instant casts.

the ONLY people that you can beat with ur 'lolerwalkthru technique' are keyboard noobs. ANYONE that mouse turn and doesnt have over 1-1.5k++ latency (even avg tmnut msians have 400-600) will be IMMUNED TO UR JOKE TECHNIQUE. and thats ASSUMING THE MAGE STANDS STILL, WHILE BEING A CLASS THAT HAS THE MOST OFFENSIVE DIRECT DAMAGE INSTANT CAST SPELLS, and thats ASSUMING ur fighting msians, where the majority of the population on US server are? why of course, AMERICANS, that have less than 50ms ping.

and no, sl locks tanking onyxia is nothing surprising anymore pre-bc, there have been guilds that have naked characters to tank the whole MC, onyxia and more. I MYSELF AS A ROGUE TANKED ONYXIA FOR A WHOLE LAST 20++ % OF HER LIFE. and lived in the end and onyxia dead.

continueing

sheep aside, you will still get STUNNED while under ANY DOT EFFECTS and ignite is no exception.

and just turn 180 degrees directly, not hard. your not gonna get the "target must be infront of you msg" unless ur lagging heavily or your turning slow, or ur using keyboard to turn. HELL, theres even a macro that majority of hunters use for kiting effeciency, it allows them to instantly perform a 180degree turn.

coc and db are NOT hard to target, the only time they are hard is you having over 500-700 latency. chances are, so long ur on a good ip or tmnut didnt decide to shaft you up, you will be around 300-600 ms. that is enough for coc/db so long you put at least some "aiming" effort to cast it, not really that hard, a direct frontal cone. and bear in mind, thats just laggy malaysians. US players with under 50 latency have no problem or whatsoever in targeting coc/db's on your face. and wtflol reverse? backpeddling in pvp? gg

seen: sheeping in 1v1 are considered noobish for the mage even if he win. regardless sheeping provides a fire mage an insane ammount of advantage. especially if they have pom + AP, its almost as if once you get the sheep done, and ur pyro is caster, the word win is written all over that fight. because of that, top tiered mages do not sheep at all unless its 1vN (vs multiple numbers of enemies alone)

myremi: sorry sorry, hectic day at work and seeing such *ahem* posted on forums makes my blood boil even more lol. but yea, what you said, why compared urself against some scrub, does you no good, and makes you look bad.

i mean, whats the use for comparing urself against some noob you win against him 10/10. if you ask me, i would compare myself against some pro that just handed my ass to me, and set myself a goal to hand him his ass someday and move on to the next better player, thats how you keep improving.

sets84: and my point of argument here is that holy priest CAN beat a warlock, it may not be easy but it can be done. ive personally witnessed MANY top tiered holy priests schooling top tiered warlocks. the warlock simply do not have enough mana to outlast the priest, that or their burst is not good enough to school the priest before the heal spam commence. surely, they can do awesome bursts with soulfire crits... immo conflag crits, shadow burn crits yadayada. but cmon, realistically, a warlock's crits are not all to reliable. if they dont crit, roll over and die? just have to continue the fight with consistancy from there on.

shadow ward and shadow immunity doesnt overrule a priest's ability to survive your attacks, and if anything, holy dmg isnt limited to smite... you WILL get feared after the 1st/2nd trinket/WOTF, and one feared, trinket holy fire is capable of critting upwards of 3-5k++ and a dot too with trinket + PI. and ive fought priests that deals ~800-1k holy nova HIT, yes HIT. spammed on my face, and dont forget, hnova heals the priest too. thats PRE BC. post bc? i dont even wanna know, but then again, i got CLOS and ms % based wound poisons, so it shouldnt be that bad now.

and you ownself mention ur crit 20%... imo, thats low...avg heavy pvp destro locks roll with 20-30% ish crit including talents, pve destro locks usually even have more % crits, either that or a ton more +spelldmg. and even so, once you have resilience slap in ur face, they all mean nothing.

also, unless ur something wierd like MD destro, ur not gonna be able to summon a 2nd felpup out, and what would that mean? priest swp + hnova/hfire/smite ur felpup and you can kiss its ass goodbye, and dont even think about resummoning it, you wont. unless the priest didnt invest a lil bit of shadow for silence/flay/blackout/imp fear, then its the priest fault as they are great pvp assets even being holy or disc.

shopboy: only 4-5k hp raid buffed naked tanks, they do wear unsee-able items such as rings/necks/trinkets etc. and some of them put on cape to look extra retarded, and of course have weap + shield so they can use their aggro skills. at the end of the day, its good fraps/screenshot material, seeing someone in undies and crap tanking huge ass raid bosses /lol

onyxia can 2 shot the tank, so healings have to be insanely top notch btw. bad breath + melee strings = gg tank
if im not mistaken, those groups wiped an assload before actually succeeding.

look up stormscale video thread, not sure if theres a good number of priest videos there especially showcasing warlock 1v1 duels.

=edit=
fix minor typo

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Mar 25 2007, 01:15 AM

you are correct sir!
especially the first strike part, very applicable to rogues hehe.

well for wow's part, it could still use a lot of balancing and all, especially when people are starting to get their top tiered end game gears. its always then balance will be thrown off, with classes getting their higher dmg output or capabilities from special set bonuses etc.

quoted my own quote since you apparently missed out what ive said.

the above mentioned including talents. eg: ruin, imp searing pain and so on. and im talking bout people rollin in their full gladiator set and pvp honor items. if you havent noticed, the crit you can get in pvp is for the most part, even more than what you can get in PVE. how so? crits plays a very important role in pvp, blizzard acknowledges that, and gives pvp stats only attainable in pvp. but of course, to keep things from going retarded, thats where resilience comes in, and at the same time, heavy stam from pvp gears.

as you also mentioned, yes, there will be things you lose in pvp items. while crit is more or less comparisonable, its things like mana pool, mana regen, mp5 etc that you have to lose, for casters for example. in pvp gears, they are almost non-existant. for melees, its usually the heavy AP, +hit rating, +weapon skill rating etc.

for the felhunter, true, it has devour magic, but take note of this: smite - no dot/hnova - no dot

doing enough of those, then a good fear to coup with slow holyfire cast, and lets remember, hfire = no GCD so after hfire, finish it with SWD so it will be dead, and you dont get to devour magic. it is my mistake however, to have swp listed in, it shouldnt've been SW:D instead.

and as i said, it is VERY possible to get good spell dmg AND having heavy post 200 resilience and heavy stam should you go for the full gladiator set + arena rewards, and honor rewards. and as i said, the ONLY thing he sacrifices that are most notable, is his pve capabilities such as spirit, mp5, mana pool and not so noticebly (theres healing sets/items for the arena/pvp rewards) +healing.

and repeating myself again, you DONT have to purposely go "resilience specced" warlock, grab yourself some pvp rewards, if possible, the arena ones ala gladiator set. you wont see a lot of loss in terms of dps, but you will sure as hell notice the insane increment in resilience and hp.

but then again with:
you've already knew, so why ask? and i even had to explain the same thing over multiple of times for something that you already knew. here i am wondering if im the dumb one for explaining, or you for not realizing it.

for the most part i would agree, but the bottom half i dont, warriors didnt get much buffs at all. if anything, their itemization is the same pre bc/2.0 . the most noticeble class that got buffed post bc/2.0 is prolly the rogue class, considering they were close to being useless prior to that. unless of course, you meant specifically the patch 2.0.10, then id say no one get anything cept priests got a minor nerf that got an unnessesary community uproar. (rage is still normalized, its only increased a bit so playing prot warriors arent as torturing as before, to those that dont like prot but had to go prot anyways)

gladys: PURGEEE THE PAIN SUPRESSSSIONNNNNNNNN (thats what going on vent when the shields are up )
blizz needs to buff this shit really bad lmao.

sets84's 2nd post: if ur friend is so reluctant to go combat daggers, have him go combat mutilate. on par if not even able surpass combat daggers. (i spec combat mut for pve but recently sub mut for heroics/minor arenas)

its not as torturing as watching ur 60 energy backstabs SLOWLY gaining 1 cp, and ur frontload main damager -> mutilate even being combat, will still be hitting a lot harder (assuming you dual crit, rare i know, but its very possible being raid buffed) than backstab with SA, AND providing you with THREE CP, not one, THREE. ultimately though, ur still maintaining slice and dice, because 40-50% of ur total dmg comes from whites being combat mut, but the biggest difference here, is that you get to maintain another buff which is expose weakness, you get to eviscerate a lot more, and biggest difference, CP management and randomness variable. due to the nature of sealfate/mutilate, you actually have to act according on how many CP you get, and not static 1 cp 1 cp and stick to ye ole 3-5-5 cycles (assuming ur not lucky on combat potency)

sets84's 3rd post: as explained above.

kyogezsho: look in the armory thread, and post urs too, im interested in ur 1.5k +healing priest
and ur the type of priests able to heal me for 5digit, which i <3 seeing them on my SCT cuz the green numbers are soooo pretty and flashy

oh yea, IMP DS FTFW.



this however, is very wrong.

ive read across a post from ming flexing his stam/resilience. was an arena fight, 2 hemo rogues got onto him, both got opener, stunlock to no end, until eventually due to kidney cooling... diminishing yada yada... ming is free, and how much health hes down to? 5k... out of 11-12k ish... what happen next? the 2 rogues got their ass handed to them.

now lets put it into a normal rogue without stam/resilience replacing ming, i think needless to say, he is f***ing dead. no chance to retaliate, nothing, dead.

some notes: ming's resilience basically robbed the rogues off their lethality, and malice, in which 80-99% of the rogue community deems these talents a must have, and one of their main source of damage. converted to a warlock, it basically robs the warlock off their improved searing pain, backlash, devastation, and mildly affecting ruin, though not completely. that translate to a very very weakened warlock and to destro, those talents are basically what destro locks stands for.

www.worldofming.com (pvp enthusiast)

disclaimer: the above is just an example, it could be more or less the way it goes for the debated priest/warlock 1v1 fight.

siangau: my comp is definately better than your comp... oh wait.


lastly, happy reading.


=edit=
FINALLY GOT TO POST... GOD... even lowyat.net decided to go down on me while WoW is on rolling restart :/

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Mar 27 2007, 11:05 PM

when your at a certain level, test server blows lol. ur own gear > the test server gear

that has to be the dumbest way of dueling lmao...

so long i pop the cheapshot, any naked opponent i stab with my weapons WILL die within 8 seconds. hell, ive even killed shamans, mail, decently decked, with shield, in around 9 seconds.

cheapshot > trinket mutilate kidney shot coldblood mutilate evis (assassination 4th piece makes the evis possible)
the kidney shot is almost guranteed 5 combo (75% chance)
my evis is almost guranteed 4combo (60% chance)

only counter? trinket my kidney or cheapshot, or resilience/stamina decked and survive 9 seconds.

saw my mutilate screenshot? lmao

if you havent noticed test server given equips are pve based. priest pve based = heal, while locks no matter pve or pvp their role are just dps.

if you want anything fair, i can either:
1) use my rogue to prove my credibility

or

2) somehow get blizz to provide priest premade characters pvp based equips

or

3) get me a decked pvp gear equipped priest to copy to PTR

www.dictionary.com sir!

the above replies wanted action (a duel?) because up till now its all talk.

and thus my above reply.

and my rogue is already shown(armory thread), so if you've read that thread you would've know that this isnt the issue.

because i dont have a priest? unless you want to duel my lvl15 guild bank.

i could use sichiri's priest (and ive used his priest to pvp quite a lot before and its pretty fun ^^) but atm hes only lvl66

guess you both missed my point?

right now a duel to prove all the talking done is called out right?

so now i dont have a priest.

only way to get one is PTR, but as ive said PTR gears are pve focused instead of PVP.

and thus i listed the options above, which are unlikely to happen

there is option 2 and 3, perhaps ur too absorbed to see them.

---

Added on March 28, 2007, 6:00 pmkyogezsho: indeed skill > gears that i dont deny but my point here is that to have a fair duel, i cant be doing it with healing/pve gears on the priest right? else the point of the whole duel would be void.

and ive played sichiri's priest before pre bc, but thats that. post bc i wont be able to push a priest's capabilities to its fullest, but i believe i wont be entirely helpless either, and given that, i am at an extreme disadvantage right? honestly speaking i dont mind, and i would see it as a challenge to beat sets with the disadvantages given to me. if i dont beat him, he proves his points valid, no biggie. if i win, not only i make my point clear, i gain mega epeen, big win right here

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Mar 28 2007, 06:00 PM

he is smartie man.