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Discussion can c.ronaldo be a captain?

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Duke Red
post Mar 13 2007, 04:44 PM

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Great player but at current I would not appoint him as captain. Team captains are not always the best players on their teams. Man Utd fans especially more recent ones may argue that Roy Keane was your best ever captain in recent times but my vote goes to Captain Marvel, Bryan Robson. Captains in my opinion should hold the team together and get everyone involved. In short, they should make the team play better. It is no secret that Man Utd played better as a team when Keano or Robbo were in it. Currently, Ronaldo is still a little to individualistic to me. Yes, there are moments where great players need to take it upon themselves to make solo runs and going for goal all by themselves but it would be better and easier on themselves should they get the whole team involved. It is my personal opinion that captains lead by example and the one part of Ronaldo's game that still gets to me is his tendency to go down too easy. If you look at Keano, he goes down only when he is forced to go down. I also do not think that Ronaldo is a big enough influence on the pitch to be a captain. He influences the game by virtue of his sublime skill but he does not influence his teammates.

I am not concluding that he cannot be a captain, I'm just saying he wouldn't be the best. When he does mature as a player and keep his temper in check, I think Rooney would make a better captain.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 13 2007, 04:45 PM
Duke Red
post Apr 19 2007, 02:35 PM

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I think Rio is next in line.


Added on April 19, 2007, 2:36 pm
QUOTE(clsiluf @ Apr 19 2007, 02:35 PM)
henry and gerrard also not natural captain, but is their on field performance that inspire other, this what we call captain lead by example...
How would you define "a natural captain"?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 19 2007, 02:36 PM
Duke Red
post Apr 19 2007, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Apr 19 2007, 02:57 PM)
Our current pecking order in terms of captains is Gaz, Giggsy, Scholesy and then Rio if I'm not mistaken. Although it tends to be RIo more then Scholesy as Scholesy doesn't like being a captain.
I didn't mean that Rio was co-captain. What I mean is that by the time Neville leaves or retires, both Giggs and Scholes would likely have done the same. Next in line would therefore be Rio.
Duke Red
post Sep 28 2007, 06:29 PM

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I'll have to repeat myself again looks like. It appears that ALL players have dived at some point of their careers. The question becomes, who dives THE MOST? Why do some players get the reputation, and others don't? Reputation is only developed through some form of consistency. That being said, some players have cleaned their act up.
Duke Red
post Sep 28 2007, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(aa1985 @ Sep 28 2007, 06:45 PM)
THE MOST?its not the point..when the player is dive its a dive..nothing to do with the numbers of dive they did..
again..well done air_mood..  rclxms.gif they just dont know or dont want to know when their players also dive..
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Erm if you keep up with recent times, you'll notice we admit that Gerrard dives as like any other player. What I meant is players get reputations by repeating certain acts. Would you disagree? Let's not turn this into a player bashing thread. If there are legit reasons why some people don't believe he should be captain now then so be it. Let's not start another war of words shall we? I understand some people instigated this but it doesn't mean we all have to stoop to that level, or do we?

What do you say?
Duke Red
post Sep 28 2007, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(aa1985 @ Sep 28 2007, 06:55 PM)
oopss sory..i didnt mean that, but this is our response..its normal rite?
back to the topic i dont think cristiano ronaldo have a captain criteria..one of captain criteria is who can shout to their team mate when they did wrong on the field..or back up them..
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No worries, I completely understand. I'm just hoping this doesn't turn into another war of words. Would be great if we can have a discussion rather than argument.

I'm with you on this. I like vocal captains who lead by example. They don't have to be the most skillful or the best but they must have good match temperament. He may mature into that mould one day, like Figo did.
Duke Red
post Sep 29 2007, 03:07 PM

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Again, I would stress that being 'diving' is probably not the most relevant trait when it comes to what it takes to be a captain. Why don't we focus on other attributes like match temperament, mental toughness, etc?
Duke Red
post Sep 29 2007, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Sep 29 2007, 03:12 PM)
No doubt that that's a very, very important traits for a captain. As a matter of fact, I don't even see Gaz as a proper captain, simply because he's not vocal as Keano, Schmikes, Cantona and brucey before him used to be. If it was up to me, I'd get Rio as captain because he isn't afraid to tell his mind.


I agree with you on this. I like my captains vocal and at this point, Rio is the closest to that.

QUOTE(air_mood @ Sep 29 2007, 03:12 PM)
But the fact of the matter is this, most people on this thread are saying that  Ronaldo can't be a captain because he used to dive quite a fair bit. And as you pointed out, that's not a trait that determines whether someone deserves to be a captain or not. If someone says that he doesn't have leadership or motivating qualities, I have no issues with that cause he certainly doesn't at the moment.
*
I agree.
Duke Red
post Sep 29 2007, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Sep 29 2007, 03:25 PM)
so you two don't rate integrity and respect very highly then? IMHO, a captain is someone who does not indulge in off field shenadigans, is a model proffesional, willing to protect his charges and one who respects the laws of the game...

Hmm... no one seems to fit that criteria sad.gif
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I'm avoiding the issue of diving as it will only lead to an argument over who dives more.
Duke Red
post Sep 29 2007, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Sep 29 2007, 04:06 PM)
Of course one would one his captain to be the model professional dont they. Stays out of the spotlight, never brings attention to himself and the closest player to that now IMO(nothing to do with my Man Utd bias here) is Paul Scholes. Hence why i realy love the ginger assassin, he comes in, does his job and fecks off from the stadium to be with his family. The model professional.


It's the same reason why I rate our Carra so highly.

QUOTE(air_mood @ Sep 29 2007, 04:06 PM)
But in a day and age where wages are getting more ridiculous by the minute, it's hard to get them doesn't it, not when there's so much money to throw around. What was it I heard about the the rumoured wages that Chelski are willing to offer to Ronaldinho, 200k pounds per week???
I read that as well. Think the figure was 220 / 230K which is absurd. Brings about the issue of overpaid footballers once again.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2008, 09:43 AM

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I came across this article in today's Sunday Mail and stumbled upon a couple of interesting points. Another example of how too much attention is sometimes given to the 'big four'. In any case I found this article relevant to his credentials as a captain, as I'm sure he will be one some day, just perhaps not in the EPL?

QUOTE
RONALDO NEEDS TO GROW UP FAST
by Craig Nunis

Christiano Ronaldo should consider a career in touch rugby if he doesn't like being tackled.

For a player who might soon be earning $140,000 pounds a week, wimpy Ronaldo is better advised to use the money to bulk up than complain about being fouled.

On current form, the Portuguese winger is undoubtedly one of the best players in the world, and it is only natural defenders will try all means - fair or otherwise - to stop him.

However, the Daily Mail reported earlier this week that Ronaldo trails behind Mikel Arteta (Everton), David Bentley (Blackburn), Ashley Young (Aston Villa), Stephen Hunt (Reading), Dietmar Hamann (Man City) and Gabriel Agbonlahor (Aston Villa) in a league table of the most fouled player.

Interestingly, no player from the big four - Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and United - are in the top six, while Villa have two.

We don't hear Martin O'Neill demanding extra protection for his players while none of the most fouled players have voiced their displeasure as they know football is a contact sport.

Perhaps someone forgot to tell Ronaldo, his manager Ferguson and United No 2 Carlos Queiroz that.

The trio lamented Martin Atkinson's handling of the FA Cup quarter-final against Portsmouth last weekend.

Pompey, admittedly, were lucky to sneak a 1-0 victory but they certainly worked hard and played hard - but fair - to earn the upset.

Yes, they were physical, but the worst tackle was committed by Wayne Rooney, whose two-footed lunge at Niko Kranjcar warranted a red card.

He, however, only escaped with a yellow.

Yet, Ferguson claimed Atkinson was "on Portsmouth's side", and accused referee's chief, Keith Hackett, of "not doing his job properly" for allowing a referee not up to Ferguson's standards to officiate at Old Trafford - in other words, someone who did not favour the hosts.

Queiroz went further to claiming Atkinson was a "robber" and insisted a new rule be introduced allowing referees to be replaced during games.

Ronaldo, for his part said he is now scared of performing hs tricks as he fears of being hacked. Yawn.

These are all tired excuses churned out whenever Manchester United come unstuck, a smokescreen to hide their shortcomings.

The match last Saturday was United's to lose.

They were in superb form, had been scoring goals for fun and in Ronaldo, have a players who can torment the best of defenders, when he is on form.

Yet, in a home game against a side who had not won at Old Trafford for 51 years, Manchester United were complacent and just plain unlucky.

On any other day, the would have probably scored more than three goals but their strikers shot more blanks than a person who had a vasectomy.

Their defenders were AWOL when it mattered most, leading to Sully Muntari's 78th minute penalty which left Ferguson sweating more profusely than a Penang Gerakan candidate at the recent general elections.

And the outcome was the same. Defeat.
The article admittedly sounds either biased, or brutally honest depending on how you look at it. It does however provide some insight into who the leagues most fouled players are.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2008, 09:19 PM

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Let us not go into the issue of diving as it's been discussed to death. The articles suggests that Ferguson may be making a little too much about Ronaldo needing protection when there are several players that are being fouled more often than him, with Villa having two themselves. There isn't a doubt Ronaldo gets fouled often because he is too quick and nimble for most players but the question is; Is Ferguson making a meal of things by demanding Ronaldo gets more protection from referees, while none of the other managers have done so? Is it because of his price tag? The fact that he plays for the richest club in the world? The fact that he earns more?
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2008, 10:05 PM

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Just out of curiosity, why do you say, "captions" and not "captains"?


Added on March 17, 2008, 8:13 am
QUOTE(TheWhacker @ Mar 16 2008, 09:59 PM)
IMHO, Sir Alex is like protecting Ronaldo more then the rest of the Man Utd players and the reason to that is maybe because of Ronaldo being the key and important player to Man Utd and he doesn't want him to get injured. I won't need to state of what happens if he does get injured ... Man Utd will lose 2 points at the last Derby game for example.
I'd agree with protection if the challenges were career ending ones, not an increased frequency of regular fouls. We can't change the rules for one player, one that isn't even the most fouled in his league especially. Are we to limit the number of fouls Ronaldo can suffer? Skillful players will get fouled more often, it's an occupational hazard, just ask Maradona. If a player goes in dangerously against Ronaldo, he will be cautioned or sent off just as they would be if they made a similar challenge on any other player. The rules cannot be changed to cater to the whims of just 1 player or manager.

If you look to the NBA, you see teams deploy the "hack a Shaq" strategy towards the end of the game, because Shaq obviously sucks at free throws. You didn't see Shaq pound anyone to pulp, or even Phil Jackson demand for more protection because though they were fouls, they were within the boundaries of the game. Basketball is a contact sport and so is football. As it is more protection has already been given to players with the abolishment of tackles from behind. What is next? No tackles at all?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 17 2008, 08:15 AM
Duke Red
post Mar 18 2008, 03:32 PM

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Correct but on the other hand it shows he has passion for the game. I would however rather my captain keep his composure though.
Duke Red
post Mar 19 2008, 09:11 AM

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Call me old fashion, but I'd rather my captain remain composed throughout the match. Ronaldo was weeping but he wasn't captain so that doesn't bother me the slightest. If he was however, he has to keep his emotions in check for the benefit of the team. His players would all have been really down and he has to be the one to pick them up. If he is in tears, can you imagine what the other players that look up to him feel like? Shedding bucketloads is an emotional display that can show passion, but it can also come across as a display of weakness, and lack of composure, depending on how you look at it. It is in my opinion that captains be the first to congratulate their vanquishers and give his team a pat on the back, or a roasting depending on how they played.

Comparing Gerrard's credentials with Ronaldo's at this point, is a little absurd. Gerrard is no angel but neither was Roy Keane.
Duke Red
post Mar 19 2008, 03:39 PM

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When it comes to emotions, I'm not just talking about crying. Same goes when players argue with the ref. The last thing you'd want is for your captain to be sent off for persistently harassing the ref, something that Terry does. No offence but I've noticed him doing that a few times. Captains should be pulling their teammates away from confrontation in order to prevent them from being sent off, not encouraging them by doing so themselves. Like I said though, it's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

 

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