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 Working in Singapore V20, All About Living in The Little Red Dot

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CallMeGucci
post May 3 2017, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(WallChecker @ May 2 2017, 10:24 PM)

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Hey I came across your post in the v19 thread on how finance is overrated in SG. It would be helpful if I can get some advice from you. I've gained entry into a Top 10 uni in the world and am weighing my options to finance my education. If I agree to receive a scholarship from one of the many institutions in Malaysia, I would be subjected to serving my bond in Malaysia for 6 years whilst receiving only pitiful remunerations as compared to the global standards. My question is how accessible is the financial sector (IB/HF) to Malaysian fresh graduates from overseas? Also, how do BB in SG view people from the Malaysian financial sector? Are the doors open to those from Malaysia at the VP level or are they essentially closed to those outside the BB circle in SG? Thank you in advance for answering my questions.
CallMeGucci
post May 4 2017, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(Fiona Chin @ May 4 2017, 08:48 AM)
Nationality doesn't matter for banks as long as shinny degree. Cream of world top 10 uni SG won't be your only pick. The job will look for you, not you look for job. Take Malaysia's scholarship or not now then see your analysis leh, you accepted into Top 10 university, should be able to make the judgment call.
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Thanks for replying! You're probably right, but the industry isn't what it used to be, no? With a slower deal flow leading to large fall in recruiting in banks. I have looked at everything and have basically made my decision. I just wanted some insight into whether it is possible to move from Malaysia IB to SG IB after finishing my bond, or if SG banks prefer to hire fresh graduates and promote from within.
CallMeGucci
post May 5 2017, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(iceypain @ May 5 2017, 03:18 PM)
Yes, some have gone from msian IB to SG IB, typically after 4+ years with a reset analyst rank. It isn't an easy transition but then again it isn't cakewalk getting in straight out undergrad either, even with an ivy league or similar degree. This is from first hand experience though on the buy-side not IB.
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Hi, nice to get some realistic insights. Why the reset to analyst rank? Is this industry testament that experience in Msian markets is looked down upon and unable to garner recognition from international institutions? I presume it is the same story on the buy side since the deal flow here is markedly smaller. Also, did you begin your career on the buy side in SG or moved from Msia?
CallMeGucci
post May 6 2017, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(KilJim @ May 5 2017, 10:14 AM)
My own general input here (I'm not from the banking line so someone please correct me if what I say doesn't apply)

No industry is "what it used to be" if you're referring to 20-30 years ago, but that shouldn't be a big concern to you
As Fiona mentioned there if you graduate with great results from one of the world's top 10 universities, you'll likely get a position
Fall in recruiting affects the average and below average the most, the top guys shouldn't have a problem (unless its a dying industry)

If you have a good track record in MY there will be opportunities in SG. In fact your company may be more than willing to transfer you internally
And all companies should prefer to promote within, hire from outside when there's no viable internal candidate (unless something political is going on)
I don't think banking is any different from any other industry in this aspect
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"What it used to be" in Banking is actually only a decade ago. A top 10 uni might be impressive in other fields but not so much in IB, where it is a given that everyone comes from a reputable school coupled with a fantastic resume. That's what makes the field so attractive albeit challenging, everyone there is a top guy. The cutthroat world of IB doesn't give too many second chances.

QUOTE(iceypain @ May 5 2017, 09:25 PM)
Yes, that is the prevailing view but even with the demotion compensation goes up. Hard to compare when even junior professionals in top tier banking and buyside roles in SG make north of RM50-60k/m all-in. I started in Msia but I would say that there are very few "good" buy side seats for fresh grads and these pay comfortably above what local IBs pay, pm me if you want names--i prefer to stay somewhat anonymous.
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Yea I was concerned about that. I wouldn't mind a demotion actually, it's just that time spent in a Msian IB could've been much better spent somewhere else getting much more exposure and deal experience. I believe the pay in Msia reflects the productivity of Msian firms which are lagging far behind. I'll PM you for a basic idea of the buy side over here.
CallMeGucci
post May 7 2017, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(KilJim @ May 6 2017, 11:44 AM)
I'm really curious, are there that many Top 10 uni grads in Malaysia that getting a position in IB is that hard?
I understand that for the US, or maybe SG, but didn't expect that for MY

Or is it that they value other things like internships rather than degrees?

Or maybe there are very few openings

Edit: I just thought of the obvious, or is it that they mostly hire from people with experience in other lines of banking rather than fresh grads?
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Msian IBs are not hard to get a place in mainly due to their inability to attract the top foreign graduates. Skills from other lines of banking are usually not directly transferable to ibanking, so it's not normal for IBs to hire that way. It is considerably more difficult to break into SG which in turn is easier than US, and the overall compensations reflect this.

QUOTE(ThanatosSwiftfire @ May 6 2017, 02:17 PM)
I don't think so, since the barriers to entry in Malaysian IB is relatively easy. I have friends from my ex-firm doing DCM/ECM roles in local banks such as RHB/CIMB. A top-10 Uni grad should get in relatively easily.

I suppose it's a question of whether it's better to get your foot through the door in KL, then use that to jump into SG, or risk to chance of trying in SG (against all the competition here, especially without prior relevant experience)
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That's the thing though, as iceypain mentioned above, it is not easy to move from KL to SG since the experience is so different. Counterintuitively, it might be easier to break in as a fresh grad, since a lack of experience (other than internships) isn't a disadvantage for an analyst role in IB. Trying to break into PE/HF as a fresh grad is a whole other beast though.

CallMeGucci
post May 8 2017, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(Fiona Chin @ May 8 2017, 12:40 PM)
During the good days, the IB will pluck out the top local grads before they graduate to fill the role. Those pluck out are given more opportunity to excel, labeled as "scholars". But if don't perform, they also will be kicked out.

For you guys coming over either as fresh grads or lao jiao, you will lose out to the fame of the local university, local exposure and network aka connections. Build up the connections in school or working during the time in Malaysia. You know IB has no life in the early 5-10 years right?
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That's what I heard as well. Networking and connections play a much larger role in hiring here in Asia compared to other parts of the world. I am of course aware of the rigor of IB, but I think the learning opportunities are unparalleled and the skills are easily transferable when leaving the industry. I think the pros outweigh the cons, at least for me.
CallMeGucci
post May 9 2017, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(WallChecker @ May 8 2017, 11:20 PM)
Personally, I am not an expert in the Front Office environment and I can see some has offered good feedback to u. In term of nationality, there is not much barrier in SG compared to other countries, however it also created a very competitive landscape where u are competing with grads from all countries from world's top uni. I think funding tuition fee is not a question if u can afford to complete it. Based on IB total comp I think u can easily cover it within 1-2 years if u are high achiever. Remuneration wise, IB in Malaysia is definitely lagging behind compared to SG. I do agree with iceypain on sort of "reset" part as it is viewed as lesser value compared to a competitive environment. U can still achieve better total comp even with reset from MY to SG.
My personal view on the differences are mainly platform, sustainability and complexity. If u compare IB in SG and MY on these 3 elements, I believe there are huge gap which time spent in MY IB is not much valued in SG. The platform to run deals are so different between IB in MY compared to Swiss pure play. Products complexity is another level. 10M USD deals means differently on both sides.
Nevertheless, if u manage to start in SG definitely better than MY (The breakthrough part is true, ivy leagues are flooded in IB world). I understand there is leveling in IB based on experience/deals as well. Top uni is at least an entry ticket but portfolio and deals come after that.
Regarding to IB job market right now (My personal view) - I think it is not that good. Looking at high-level financial sheets from BB and Swiss pure play, those with high PTI had already done their major revamp on IB structure. They are left with core and quite "skinny" combining/hybrid of parts of IB, HF, GM, CM, FID etc. Some are still bleeding due to slow in exiting some parts of their "fats".
Recruiting definitely slower to none right now and I think people are just waiting market to picking up and hopefully soon.
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The recent struggles seem to have really hurt the banking world not just in SG but all over the world as well. However, I'm foreseeing that SG being the financial hub of ASEAN will be able to recoup momentum by the time I graduate. If the tuition fee in question amounts to half a million ringgit, would you still say it's a financially sound choice to forgo the scholarship to avoid serving the bond of approximately 6 years in Malaysia?


QUOTE(Fiona Chin @ May 9 2017, 09:32 AM)
Good luck  biggrin.gif . Actually I don't know why I was in IB. Its the norm dream for the locals then everyone follow the hype. Thanks to instagram and facebook for free promo on the life of IB people when they go on biz trip or vacation. Money is very good because you have no time to spend it.

After few years apply to transfer to management. Now 9-5 so happy even though bonus is much less.
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I think if one's motivation to head into the industry is money and glamor, disappointment is inevitable. It's good that you figured out what you really wanted and were able to make your own choice. When you say management, do you mean asset management or a corporate finance type of role?
CallMeGucci
post May 24 2017, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(WallChecker @ May 20 2017, 07:38 PM)
Personally, I would take up scholarship mainly because half a million ringgit is big sum and secured job opportunity upon grad (A less risky option - different people has different risk appetite anyway). U have to look into terms and condition drafted on scholarship contract and what/how much compensation of breaking the bond. I'd assume a gradually decrease in payback.
But if u dare to take the risk, assuming everything goes smoothly, I believe u can fully recover your tuition fee in about 3-4 years.
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Yea most here have assured me that if it goes well, the payoff is many folds higher. I have always been a rather risk-averse person though, so maybe it's time I changed. Anyhow, this is a decision I have to make and live with.

 

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