I am using a HP Pavilion PC with an integrated audio codec (IDT 92HD65C) for listening to music and watching movies/videos.

I was using an Edifier R401 powered 2.1 speaker system, but I found the sonic presentation lacking clarity and detail.

Recently I replaced the Edifier with the Yamaha DSP-A3090 AV amplifier and TDL RTL2 reflex transmission line speakers.

These are audio gear left over from the 1990s when I was an avid AV enthusiast.

What a difference that made. Really 'night and day'.

Surprisingly, the integrated audio codec did a pretty good job. It can decode 24bit/192kHz audio files (foobar2000 with wasapi plugin).

Unfortunately the PC does not have a digital out, so I can't use the DAC in the Yamaha amplifier to hear the sonic difference.

Will an external USB DAC improve sound quality in my present PC audio setup?

The Yamaha DSP-A3090 amplifier


The TDL RTL2 reflex transmission line speakers


This post has been edited by raynman: Feb 21 2017, 09:01 AM

Usually DAC can improve the sound quality, but ain't come cheap. Usually good DAC costs over RM2K. but first the question, you wanna stereo output or multichannel output?

For me, stereo output takes precedence over multi-channel.

Will an external USB DAC improve sound quality in my present PC audio setup?

Good external DAC will improved sound quality compare with on-board sound card.
If you want cheap, basic & good USB DAC try FiiO E10k or better DAC try SMSL M8 or Chord Mojo. You could find it at Garage Sale here or Lazada, test it with your AV system.

Your Yamaha AV receiver among the top/highend model, it could bring very good natural detail sound.

http://www.lazada.com.my/sh-smsl-m8-portab...e-20166281.html

This post has been edited by azuradaniel: Feb 21 2017, 09:31 AM

get a USB DDC and use your yamaha DAC

Definitely. An external DAC will be an improvement over the onboard solution.

I can't afford a Chord Mojo.

Why not try SMSL M8 or Dragonfly black/red, already good enough. Anyway built-in DAC inside your Yamaha AV Receiver also not bad.

Good idea !

Anyway where could we get it locally or any DIY seller locally?

Great idea!

Never thought of that.

Where can I get it?

Jaben should have some. I believe they sell the iFi audio stuff too.

I only could find expensive USB DDC like this: http://www.lazada.com.my/sotm-dx-usb-hd-di...dc-1152657.html

It is just to test out the DAC in my Yamaha amp.

No way I will spend this kind of money.

If you're interested, someone is selling a Consonance Box 1.1 USB to SPDIF converter.
The impression is great in this audiokarma thread.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php...oly-cow.430272/

USB 24bit/96KHz input, S/PDIF coaxial output.
Plug and play with Windows/Apple.
Excellent sound quality.
Well engineered product by Consonance Audio.
Condition: Used less than one year. Like new. Perfect working condition. 9/10
No original box.
Included one Belden 75 Ohm digital coaxial cable.
Price RM 400 firm.
Shipping free in Malaysia.
Reason for sale: bought to use with my non USB DAC.
Now upgraded to new DAC with USB.

At this price I prefer USB DAC, may be order SMSL M8 to replace my GoVibe U-DAC.

This post has been edited by azuradaniel: Feb 21 2017, 11:19 AM

I don't think for RM400 a USB DAC will sound substantially better than your built in DAC on the amp.
But if you're interested I have an extra Aune T1 MK2 I don't use. I can loan it to you until you get a new DAC. You can try comparing too.

Is there an external USB DAC with optical or coaxial digital out that I can use to connect to my Yamaha amplifier's digital input?

I also want to know how my Yamaha DSP-A3090 DAC sounds like.

try this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MU...2382833706.html

does your yamaha amp have optical in? i think a desktop should have a optical out so u can try to use that connection, (transport the digital file to ur amp to decode) .
i'm using Audinst MX1 dac/headphone amp, it does have line out and optical out. but now it is more expensive than before.
suggest u go try cheap usb dac like our local Stoner acoustics products.

This post has been edited by barjoyai: Feb 21 2017, 01:05 PM

Will an external USB DAC improve sound quality, in my present PC audio setup?

When you said "improving sound quality", first you must know what do you actually want to improve; high, mid, low frequency? soundstage? noise? etc. Smoothness?

You will get overwhelming suggestions from others. But do they sound good to you? That comes back to your preference again. It also depend on your gears.

I normally will opt for neutral and low noise dac ... Then you can move along to your amp and speaker for the sound of your liking.

What is USB DDC?

Yes, my Yamaha amp has both coaxial and optical inputs.



But my PC does not have a digital out.

upgrade ur motherboard then
i think ur night and day diff u said earlier comparing with the PC speaker is bcoz of ur TDL speaker.
based on my exp, DAC didnt really give night and day diff, the biggest diff being the speakers/headphone/earphones and the amplifier used.

You are absolutely right.

I was missing the bass from the puny Edifier R401 speaker system, even though it has a separate subwoofer.

TDL speakers are famous for tight bass and very low bass extension.

I found that I didn't need a separate subwoofer for my AV system when I was using the TDL speakers.

I am getting the 'feel' of the bass now



From wiki.....

A transmission line loudspeaker is a loudspeaker enclosure design (topology) that uses an acoustic transmission line within the cabinet, compared to the simpler enclosures used by sealed (closed) or ported (bass reflex) designs. Instead of reverberating in a fairly simple damped enclosure, sound from the back of the bass speaker is directed into a long (generally folded) damped pathway within the speaker enclosure, which allows far greater control and use of speaker energy, and the resulting sound.

Inside a transmission line (TL) loudspeaker, is a (usually folded) pathway into which the sound is directed. The pathway is often covered with varying types and depths of absorbent material, and it may vary in size or taper, and may be open or closed at its far end. Used correctly, such a design ensures that undesired resonances and energies, which would otherwise cause undesirable auditory effects, are instead selectively absorbed or reduced ("damped") due to the effects of the duct, or alternatively only emerge from the open end in phase with the sound radiated from the front of the driver, enhancing the output level ("sensitivity") at low frequencies. The transmission line acts as an acoustic waveguide, and the padding both reduces reflection and resonance, and also slows the speed of sound within the cabinet to allow for better tuning.

Transmission line loudspeakers designs are more complex to implement, making mass production difficult, but their advantages have led to acclaim for a number of manufacturers such as IMF, TDL, PMC, KVART & BØLGE[2] and the like. As a rule, transmission line speakers tend to have exceptionally high fidelity low frequency response far below that of a typical speaker or subwoofer, reaching into the infrasonic range (British company TDL's studio monitor range from the 1990s quoted their frequency responses as starting from as low as 17 Hz depending upon model with a sensitivity of 87 dB for 1 W @ 1 metre), without the need for a separate enclosure or driver.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/USB-to-SPDIF-Convert...1%257Ciid%253A1

Other cheaper option without change motherboard or install internal sound card,
try (RM35) USB External Sound card with optical/digital out like this:

http://www.lazada.com.my/usb-4-channel-51-...ok-8175028.html

or ASUS Xonar USB with optical out:

http://www.lazada.com.my/asus-xonar-u3-dol...d-11856522.html

This post has been edited by azuradaniel: Feb 21 2017, 06:00 PM

The difference between the RM2,500 TDL RTL2 speakers and the RM149 Edifier R401 speaker system is night and day.

The Yamaha DSP-A3090 AV amp cost me RM4,600.

Those were 1990s prices.

A total value of RM7,100 premium audio gear replaced the RM149 Edifier system. It better be night and day.

I think the difference between an external USB DAC and my integrated audio codec is 11am and 12 noon.

Those suggestions are for converting USB to SPDIF, so you can use your Yamaha DAC. It would be good and cheap to try.

A full-blown USB DAC with SPDIF coaxial out is much cheaper than your USB-to-SPDIF converter.

The X-HDA1 PCM/DSD DAC is available from AliExpress for only USD76.

I will most probably buy this.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/X-HDA1-SA92...2698979038.html

Made in China, no worry?

A little bit worry, but no risk no gain.

I worry later u heart attack or regret, China product very very risky, the price actually not cheap, better you bought something from local store, which provide testing, this one no testing, not worth oh, if product with reputation ok la

Yeah, I think I better get something that is available locally with warranty. No need state-of-the-art.

Frankly true DSD format not much, most music still CD 44.1 16bit, listenable and billions of source available

I already got one DSD album - Pink Floyd's Animals.

I see, that's great, as long as you like it, try download cd version and compare it, but first you need a decent DAC and headphone

To playback DSD audio files, we need to install a foobar2000 DSDIFF Decoder plugin.

Otherwise it won't recognize the DFF file format.

What DAC you currently using?

The DAC on the integrated audio codec (IDT 92HD65C) on the motherboard.

Like the Realtek top-of-the-line ALC1150 audio codec, the IDT 92HD65C can decode 24bit/192kHz without a breaking a sweat.

It also has dual capless headphone amplifiers.

I am really surprised that onboard audio has come this far.

You should install SACD component and asio. Dsddif is just merely converting your DSD into PCM

That's what I thought too.

Thanks for the tip.

If can open, see what are the components and check if no fake caps/transistors, etc. Especially the power section.
I've got a china clone DIY Naim NAP200 power amp, Now letting it turn on for 1 week no turn off. So far running well. Sounds quite ok too, but I've never compared to a real NAP200 so I have no idea the performance.

But I thought you said difference between an external USB DAC and your integrated audio codec is 11am and 12 noon.

This post has been edited by penmarker: Feb 22 2017, 09:51 AM

Still got slight difference mah.... noon is slightly hotter and brighter.

penmarker, do you think I should buy the X-HDA1?

Does the internal components look legit?

I have no idea.




This post has been edited by raynman: Feb 22 2017, 10:01 AM

Better not take risk, imagine you bought a China product, what next

My advice also is, check the feedback rating is it 100%? Even ebay I try to shop only when 100% good feeback

This post has been edited by wim1983: Feb 22 2017, 10:07 AM

High noon is hotter and can have ice cream.
They're SMD components, very small so hard to determine if legit. The Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC chip is one of their flagship chips, but implementation circuit is also a determining factor for sound quality. Its the same chip inside Astell&Kern AK100.
It says there in the listing it doesn't support DSD out from COAX, so only line out or headphone out.

I'm not worried about any component blowing smoke or etc at all its only a 5V device, just concerned about whether it will be good for $75.
If got extra money then can try buy. I won't mind buying if like around RM150 or so just to test.

Look good with the price. But dont know if they implemented it well. Also if they use good quality components. For for that price, it is good.

No problem. The only limitation is it cannot support DSD256 and above.

Why not try nu prime DSD dac

Thanks for your feedback.

I will KIV this DAC as a potential buy.

I am in no rush. Still scouting for other good buys as well.

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the 11am performance.

I'd trust the nuprime too.

My setup only 9am i think but still enjoyable too.
Just contact me if you still want to use an external DAC since I got that extra Aune T1. But no digital out though, only RCA and headphone.

Thanks for the offer man, but I would need an SPDIF digital out to test out my Yamaha DAC.

Your motherboard sound so advance, even had amp for headphone but no spdif/coaxial?

Nope, HP didn't provide an SPDIF out for the motherboard, although the IDT 92HD65C audio codec supports it.

I have installed the SACD plugin and removed the DSDIFF decoder.

File format indicator DSD128 now correctly appears during playback of a DFF file.

Good to hear. Enjoy the music. External dac does make a lot of different. Of course provided the external dac is good enough

Will it be a night and day difference?

Simple answer is yes but it also depend on your speaker, amp, cabling. Just adding a dac and hope for 100% is not possible. I personally used before few different dac. It does make the different. The current dac I used is totally night and day different with all my previous dac

Could be big different with good DAC like DragonFly Red or Cord Mojo or Audiolab M-DAC+ or Gustard X20pro or SMSL M9 etc


Attached thumbnail(s)

Some DACs just like headphones, added with lot of ajinomoto.

Is it good or bad?

Will DACs 'colour' the sound, making it sound different, but not necessarily improve the sound quality?

A few years ago when I've just bought the Aune T1, with my IEM I cannot hear any difference between using it and my computer headphone jack. But when I use higher impedance headphones and such I can hear difference. Cannot really say night and day but it could be because my laptop's on board audio is good.
If you got good equipment downstream, DAC upgrade can give big difference.

I like this review, he tells it as how he heard it.

A dac by right shall not 'color' the sound. The conversion of digital to analog is based on delta-sigma modulation method and will not add anything to analog waveform. To lure for more sale, dac starts to claim their "signature".

Sound quality is a very subjective term, bro. Just like if you ask what is the best headphone you can buy in this forum, you will get numerous response.

This post has been edited by fx20: Feb 23 2017, 09:58 AM

If you really want to know more about DAC, you can read this blogs. A very practical approach to learn about your dac.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.my/2011/05/subject...ive-debate.html
This guy almost reveal the industry secret and was threatening with legal cases by big company until he quit the writings.


For DAC, it should all about transparency and distortion. For example, does my Fender sound like a fender guitar when I play it on my system. And it is totally crapped if the Fender sound like gibson at the end of the chain.



This post has been edited by fx20: Feb 23 2017, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the article.

I am not an audiophile but I do like music and vocals that are distortion-free and instruments that sound realistic.

I am no mean an audiophile. I spent most my time appreciate artists' creativity and interpretation of scores more than listening to 'sound'. But a good and transparent system allow me to appreciate the music better.

anyone here tried the SMSL M8A?

raynman

how about removing dac in your audio setup chain..... just a pc as source playing hq audio like flac using a memory player analogue output connected to a stereo amplifier or integrated amplifier and goes to the speaker.

Will it? Yes.

Can you notice it? Maybe.

An external USB DAC in async mode, most definitely yes will be fantastic ....

I just add Allo re-clocker to my cheap rasp pi 2 to reduce jitter, plus Allo Piano DAC on top of it. I2S communication between them give a pleasant hifi sound to me so far.

Will try to compare with USB smsl m8 if i have one.

Sound like you are altering the sound signature to what you like I assume

Personally, I thought I2S is superior to USB. Love my SU1 with holo spring dac

Hi Sifus,

I have a Logitech Z623. When I connect to my laptop, the sound was terrible. But when I connect to my handphone, the mids and highs sounded clearer. Can any Sifus know why is there a difference, and will a DAC improve the songs? Thanks

Computer as a source is really not a good idea if you are serious on audio. Adding a dac maybe can change the sound signature but is it an improvement? You are try laptop vs handphone. The result is handphone is better. So you got your answer the source itself which is the laptop is no good for what you need. Just use or handphone or buy a dedicated player

I have a Z623, I personally find that Z623 satellites needs to be between 1.5 to 2.1 meter apart to get a nice and more realistic soundstage - that being said my room is about 140sq-ft. Being THX certified, i think it articulates the vocals to very lifelike conditions (not silky smooth, sweet and elevated, but more like a speech presentation like how a cinema does it) and really 'centers', 'thickens' and articulates the voice/vocals like hearing a really good speech by an experience presenter. I find that below 1.5m of separation, the vocals and speech are just way too un-natural - too loud in the mix and way too articulated, the pronunciation of each word is over-emphasized. This is good for movies and when you dont have subtitles but i really think it's overly done for music UNLESS:

You are able to get at least 1.5m of distance between the satellites, then you may hear a difference. On DAC, I have 2 entry level DACs, an ODAC V1 and D Zero MK2 (both no longer in production) but the presentation between the both DAC is is really different. The ODAC sounds flat and dry BUT it's timbre and ADSR is done with good lifelike accuracy. ADSR = Attack Decay Sustain Release (all 'natural' instrument have this, but electronic made music can manipulate this to great and unnatural extent)

Ie. ODAC V1 - the electric guitars are lifelike, it can produce the 'sawtooth/distortion effect' of the guitar with what I personally think is good accuracy ie. the buzzing and "crunchiness' is wonderful, just like a real guitar amp. The rise and fall of each waveform is just, 'accurate', if it is sawtooth wave, it will sound like it, if it is a sine wave, it will sound like it.




On the D Zero MK2, it totally cant do electric guitars (they sound really smoothed out and simply another background instrument in the mix)... ODAC for wide and big soundstage & 'lifelike-ness', but it's just what it is, uncolored, flat, transparent (unless your speakers are really colored), DZMK2 for a more deep but narrow soundstage, fun and smooth sound

If you are into 2.1 for music only purpose, give Swan M50W (very colored but in a interesting way) + ODAC a try... Z623 is really just made for movies, BUT IT'S REALLY GOOD AT MOVIES. Try watching Interstellar, the scene when the rocket takes off or the scene where the there is a sudden explosion in a dead silent space, (at high volume), that sudden surge of sound was almost similar to what I experience in GSC THX/Dolby Atmos cinema. Gunshots, L-R stereo effects are really good. So for me - yes DAC and speaker combo does change the sound character but which one that suits you will be dependent on your taste, to me M50W absolutely cannot do movies, it simply cannot present to the listener an extremely quick and sudden change in sound level and position, and the speech is not pronounced or articulated well, you will need subtitles especially in angmoh movies

Also note that THX certified multimedia speakers have 3 very different input sensitivities/impedance for each input (RCA, 3.5mm & 3.5mm AUX), this may cause different frequency response, loudness, harmonics and distortion with each different input for a same output source, good news is you have 3 choices to suit your gear

This post has been edited by andrew9292: Feb 22 2018, 10:05 PM

According to Schiit, Delta Sigma DACs + FIR filters + Non-Over Samping or even Oversampling implementation is essentially a rough approximation (a very good one) of the original signal BUT is still way behind in absolute accuracy of their military/medical/industrial grade Resistor to Resistor R2-R/Multibit + closed form filter implementations... then again i feel like the audiophile world is like politics, all you need is a 'witness and counter witness', and it'll throws both sides of the argument into chaos. With so much improvement to technology and obtainable technical facts over the years, yet what most audio gear manufactures actually give for audio spec measurements are almost the same with was easily available 30 years ago, some of them are giving even less information - it's almost an unspoken and denied truth - everything is magic except to the magician (quote: Westworld). I strongly believe the industry needs to reform with newer standards and tech information as a first step to move forward, especially if it wants to serve the masses and fact-inclined crowd

This post has been edited by andrew9292: Feb 22 2018, 10:44 PM

I never like to use handphone to play songs because it drains my battery... Anyway the source is the issue

I'm more particular when it comes to music than watching movies. And I realised I should get a 2.0 rather than 2.1. If 2.0, what would you recommend?

Maybe for now, should try other inputs to get the best out of it

This post has been edited by littleguy: Feb 23 2018, 11:49 AM

Get a pair of 2.0 floorstanding with larger mid frequency driver lor, they can produce decent low frequencies and sound field. You might find a floorstanding soound better than bookshelf if your room is large.

My room 10ft x 10ft only lar...

Try P3ESR, this bookshelf comes without a bass port which make it very easy to position inside a small room. I tried it at my friend house and i was amazed by it, it sounded so damn nice inside a small room, but it sounds so cheapo in large room.

This post has been edited by shinnie: Feb 23 2018, 05:55 PM