some reverse logic?
eg. big bills means can die liao, no need to cover?
OR
like stupid me - death insurance have dread disease ma, so medical insurance needn't cover those big things
ya ya - thanks for showing me the time/evidence required to "claim that" via dread disease - scary

Regarding the underlined above, have U factored in:
1. The value of $ for 35 years? ie $1 35, 34, 33.. etc is >$1 when claimed, due to inflation
+ the return on the $ if invested OR even put in simple FD compounded yearly?

2. The probability of claiming?

3. The logic of insurance companies are in it for the profits? ie. probability or risk * cost + admin cost +sales cost +profit target & share holders' dividend expectations?

Note, i'm not against insurances however the way it is being sold, it's as if it's a gift or being sold by an NGO.
If one can afford to cover the risks oneself, why pay outsourcers PREMIUM to cover it? Premium = (3.) above, ie Cost of risk +other costs +profits. Insurances are useful to offset risks that one cannot afford to take on, right?

No absolute right / wrong, just thinking out loud and logicalizing things

Medical Insurance - 3 things to share (or maybe these are only new to me ) as i review my child's & my medical insurance policy VS current options, which may be of interest to U:

1. Medical Insurance "WATCHOUT" - PORTFOLIO WITHDRAWAL
**What Portfolio Withdrawal?**
Insurers are able to withdraw the entire medical portfolio (ie. the particular insurance product) if the plan is no longer sustainable due to the pool of money collected vs the claims paid.

**The Pros?**
Usually, premium is lower than other comparable products

**The Cons?**
The risk here is:
IF the Portfolio is withdrawn
AND the client is seriously sick or has claimed under 36 CI
= client is unable to buy into other insurance plan

**Personal Opinion**
Personally, i'm uncomfortable with MEDICAL risk management that does not cover
"Risk of no insurance due to Portfolio Withdrawal
AND if my love ones/i had previous issues no other insurers will insure aftr Portfolio Withdrawal"
If i have the assets to totally self insure my love ones, no issue BUT until then..

---
2. New Medical Insurance Coverage in 60 days, 90 days, 120 days, 2 years etc.
**What is with the days?**
All medical insurances will state certain exceptions (ie. non-coverage or lowered) based on the number of days the insurance policy has been running.

**The Pros?**
The higher the deductible, the lower the premium - less risk for insurer

**The Cons?**
Client has to able to afford/know how much they are willing to afford to self-insure / pay out of pocket, before needing coverage or outsourcing the risk cost to insurer

**Personal Opinion**
The most critical to me was the "2 years" non-contestable claims - of course we declare everything up front to insurer during the start of the insurance policy/contract. Thus, to switch to a new insurer, i'd most probably have 2 insurances (old & new) running concurrent / overlapping for at least 1.x to 2 years, just in case (risk management)

---
3. Medical Insurance Premium VS Deductible / Co-insurance
**What is Deductible / Co-insurance?**
In simple terms, the amount client has to pay out of pocket before insurer will cover

**The Pros?**
The higher the deductible, the lower the premium - less risk for insurer

**The Cons?**
Client has to able to afford/know how much they are willing to afford to self-insure / pay out of pocket, before needing coverage or outsourcing the risk cost to insurer

**Personal Opinion**
As i grow my family's assets, i can afford higher deductibles and.. up to a point where, hopefully, we can easily self-insure fully. Thus, as we grow our assets, i'll take higher deductibles to reduce the running cost of medical insurance.

er.. heheh sure, it's a forum to share / discuss

Shout out to roystevenung .
Thank U for the info/guidance + update/upgrade from my current medical cum (very little) life program to the better fitting $20K deductible program.

Also for clearing up the stupidity of the doctor's written report with PRU's underwriter(s). Gawd.. clearly wrote by GP that it's for general checkup pun the hospital can tulis weird stuff.. grr..

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 21 2018, 02:28 PM

from a consumer, not agent here who MAY just be selling flowers , IMHO, there's NO SUCH THING as "sure better" or "always better" - it depends :
If U know what U want & need VS what is available - i see the available online stuff a great offer.

eg.
1. i know exactly what i want for death insurance, yup, death - payout due to DEATH. bugger euphemism - LIFE pulak..
thus, i have bought, on top of my employer's payout, from Tokio Marine Life's first online only death insurance + PubMut-AIA (from agent though) Group Term death insurance.
Bottom line:
Straight forward - die & get paid, is as clear as it can get. Thus, easy to buy term, save the $ and invest the difference.

2. However, for medical - i've a "basic" term medical from PubMut-LonPac which is my fallback +a life-medical (skewed 99% for medical) from Pru. I've recently made changes to that, to consolidate since Pru has made available $20K yearly deductibles & better options for me. Thus, by next year - i'll be stopping my PubMut-LonPac & the older Pru contract.
Bottom line:
I went for agent sold only as there are various strengths/nuances that i prefer from agent-sold contracts only +good agent(s) should get their credit roystevenung

Just my personal 2cents "truth" ya, your view & version can differ depending on your own knowledge, time to dig & understand + too much/too little cash to manage risks that should/should not be outsourced to insurers

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 25 2018, 04:21 PM

i dont use death insurance for medical
my medical more than covers
.. and, i dont need the cash WHILE under treatment..
.. also, the cash, cash when paid out FULLY for crit illness under death insurances, is near as good as dead liao.. thus, it's still death insurance for me.

heck, when / if i hit certain amount of investment income & assets, i'll be self insuring
of course there are certain folks that keeps saying "Why pay with your own $ when U can buy insurance?".. to them, i'll ask a simple Q - why U think U paying premiums +why U think insurers are FOR PROFIT companies?

again, that's my own "fitting" ya, no absolute right/wrong - just how one decides to manage risk.

PS: First to the punch BEFORE smart alecs state "But U gotta buy at least vehicle insurance, it's THE LAW" - alo bro/sis, grow up la - i'm stating CHOICES. Those without choice, dont lar. Try not breathing..

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 25 2018, 05:53 PM

er.. do check out WHEN and HOW CI pays out.
Some are like.. good luck if U want to use the $ to save your life.
Thus, i use medical to save my life - up to a point, then not worth the medical cost already hehhe

er.. apa tu A, B C & D etc?
i'm unsure how others buy insurance - for me, i buy insurance for things / risks i can't afford to cover.
eg. i know i can cough up $xxK anytime per year, thus i cover things ABOVE that - things that may destroy my family's cash flow & wealth.

thus, in my latest case:
my insurance premium is LOWER than my previous
AND the coverage higher
(got such thing meh.. this insurer is a biz wor.. )
BUT
i must cover/pay for the first $20K per annum, if anything

Oh - tiered as in room "level"?
sorry ya, blur katak. I usually take the mid or 2 person per room contract & if too "kecoh", i'll upgrade with own cost to single person room.

Reason:
Personally, i've visited hospitalized relatives before - sometimes, depending on luck, the 6 or 8 beds in a room or 4 in a room, is good coz the patients and their visitors are not "from the jungle".

Some however, even 2 in a room, is as "kecoh" as a football finals..

As for some folks that balk at $20K deductible now thinking "Later, when retired, how ar.."
1. well to me, when i'm retired, i should well have more investment income than now + in 10 to 20 years time, $20K in future is less value than $20K now, value-wise.

2. ya ya.. inflation but if one has equity investment generating dividends/growth, it'll out pace inflation generally - learned this as a consumer being passed the cost by companies

3. medical tech, like all tech, keeps getting better or CHEAPER (ie. same methodology & cost now vs same methodology & cost in future based on NPV of $).
Ya, some consultants will keep pointing to rising cost - agreed, for cutting edge. BUT cutting edge in future differs from current cutting edge, right?
Current cutting edge, in future, will cost more meh? (after discounting to NPV)
NPV = net present value, ie. future $ discounted to current value by removing inflation, thus, much more comparable 1:1

Again, certain people's truth differs from others ya - no absolute right/wrong
IMHO - just do what U logically think is good for U/love ones.
There are consultants selling fear/greed in all industries - heck, i was one of them in the IT world, we use to call it FUD (Fear Uncertainty Denial) hot buttons.
+ i'm one of those that keeps 3 months' stash @ home just in case... (incl water filters, food, rain harvesting, etc.) Thus, who am i to say others are mad.

heheh - i'm an analyst & developer by training ma
1010110 lol:
and i'm also kiasu but not a Singaporean - generally too atas a lifeSTYLE for me

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 26 2018, 03:23 PM

er.. serong / off tangent a bit ar..
those are life, dread disease & disability insurances for your baby girl? not medical & hospitalization?

If so, can share the reason(s) for covering life, dread disease & disability instead of covering the risk of medical & hospitalization cost?
Just worried i may have missed something in covering my kids coz i've no life insurances on them / not much - forced to have a bit of life insurance but majority is skewed to medical.

HLA agencies lagi dashyat... i just met another AFTER the fellow GUARANTEED it is written on policy..
jumpa that time, he brough his senior & his senior said not guaranteed... really waste of time, coz no matter how U calc. it will not even hit 4%pa (pro-rated buying of units from now $0.90 till guaranteed buy back NAV if $.xx in 20 years' time), even with 0% commissions.


i wish i can invoice them my time.. grr

there are pros and there are PROS (real ones, guiding +providing CLARITY OF CHOICE, not spinning till everything blur).
see the responses/advices from several folks here & U'll see the pattern

that's why i even cut my cheaper online insurance to buy from one of them - trust & knowledge learned = value to me. it'll be a cold day in hell before i buy from HLA agencies.. so far 3 agencies out of 3 failed so far (we're talking about more than 3 agents coming to "share" ya - can't even count compounded returns / savings.. sigh..)

i totally get U - i was one of the suckers when 20 yr old Even 10 years later pun cannot get the donkey premium to "auto-pay itself". Funnily - AIA also bwhaha.. not saying AIA bad, saying SEVERE mis-selling. Really wanna take hammer & go after the fingers/toes of the agent..

some CONsultants selling HOPE ^(GREED * FEAR) to "unwashed masses" ma
selling the "buy term = burn $" bwhahah
instead of selling "risk management" vs cost

anyhoot, with Internet & information flowing freely + good insurance advisors, these types will not last long since no value add

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 18 2018, 05:18 PM

er.. "Stay here forever" as opposed to?
a. Chup lup / bankrupt & tutup kedai?
Your guess is as good as mine - even AIG US nearly kaput until it was "rescued" (aig too big to fail - google it).

b. Selling its biz in MY and getting out of Dodge/town?
Happened before - our insurances (contracts in reality) are taken over by another insurer, just like rental agreements being "novated" to the new owner. The last, if i'm not mistaken was AIA taking over ING https://www.ing.com/Newsroom/All-news/Press...ysia-to-AIA.htm

c. er.. dunno what other scenario U may be thinking of