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 Insurance Talk V4!, Anything and everything about Insurance

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willwen
post Dec 25 2017, 05:52 PM

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Hi,
I already have medical card (under investment linked) which I think can cover for the next 10 years.
But my agent will once in a while try promote upgrade to me saying hospital charges are going up. Maybe in 30 years time the hospital charges so high my cover won't be enough.
So is it more cost effective to buy the highest coverage I can afford now or wait until the right time only upgrade (i.e. gradually upgrade)?


willwen
post Dec 25 2017, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(rcantona7 @ Dec 16 2017, 07:41 PM)
If you buy at younger age then the possibility for the insurance ceased to be in-forced will happen when the cash value is not sufficient to sustain the policy. Example if you join in your 30s, the cos of insurance will be higher will start from age 61-70,71-80 and 81-100. So from your age 30- 60 is thirty years investment period.During this 30 years period the cost of insurance is not high therefore the investment cash value will be enough to cover.If you did not withdraw the cash value then the policy may sustain until you age 70+s. Its all stated clearly in the quotation.  And beside that every insurance have loyalty bonus which will pay at age  either on age 60,70 or 80 depending on your entry age.

Many insurers are giving very cheap insurance due to using step premium method. There are not enough reserved fund to cover your policy when u gets older. Like every 5 year they tell you the price is increasing. Buy cheap pay more later.. or Pay average premium that can sustain for xxx years. like malay say .. bersusah susah dahulu... bersenang senang kemudian. or you prefer the other way? Thats why term insurance is highly not recommendable.. due to if one get any 36 critical illness or major illness.. they cannot get term insurance for the following year. worst still other insurer will not accept them.. So many wanna buy cheap term medical but they never think for long term. usually u can see they are now suffering for their medical cost. FYI

P/s: you can add some savings to increase the policy sustainable years. And if you just want to enjoy 25 years protection withdraw before the value drop and use that for other investment channel. You still win all in the end. 20 over years protection and get back more than what you paid.
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what if I am good in savings and investment? then wouldn't buying term insurance be same or cheaper than investment linked plan? when premium increase I just pay from my own managed savings. For ILP, the insurance charges come from the forced savings (investment units) which may not be enough anyway in the future if the fund didn't do well.
from what I can understand, in both cases, the insurance charges always increase with age (correct me if I am wrong). ILP = term insurance + forced savings (+ agent commission?)

but of course, like you mentioned, term insurance is not guaranteed renewal....
unless got any company offer guaranteed renewable term insurance ???
willwen
post Dec 25 2017, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(lifebalance @ Dec 25 2017, 06:08 PM)
1. Find out how much is your current coverage

2. Factor in the next 10 - 30 years medical cost inflation

3. Whether to immediately upgrade based on the assessment above depends on your budget. If budget does not permits, upgrade gradually.
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yalah, step 2 is where the agent usually scare me about 20% annual inflation and why I need 1 million annual limit....

Ignoring budget, I think I only need to upgrade when my cover is not sufficient for present needs.

I see no point to over coverage (in anticipation of $1 million hospital bill in 2047) even if my budget permits, unless you guarantee that I can lock in a lower premium now. But as far as I understand, the insurance charges will always go up with age anyway, no matter when you start, so I don't see the point of buying into high limits so early. That's my perception... open to debate...


willwen
post Dec 26 2017, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Dec 25 2017, 07:45 PM)
If you did not take the highest possible coverage now (since you hv no problem with budget) and if there is any claim till 2047  (the year you wanted to upgrade).....they may exclude that coverage or increase the premium to cover that....
earlier post you mentioned abt doing your own investment.....how much can you make from investnent that can outdo the cost of a cancer treatment?
Jusr a thought that i hv....
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what I meant was invest myself so I can pay for the increased premium later (not for the treatment cost... if my own investment can cover treatment cost, then no need buy insurance at all). just like the forced savings in ILP. except I handle it myself.

sometimes I wonder if it is a vicious cycle... hospital charge higher because insurance can cover, then insurance company increase premium because the charges are increasing, and so on...




willwen
post Dec 27 2017, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Dec 26 2017, 05:49 PM)
are u just referring to term life insurance? actually can buy those term that covers u up to the age you need. not sure whether which term insurance are you referring to which is not guaranteed renewal. mind to share?
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I was referring to medical insurance, which I was told term insurance is not guaranteed to renew once you are diagnosed with illness.
willwen
post Dec 27 2017, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(lifebalance @ Dec 27 2017, 10:19 AM)
No such term now. Already dissolve since 2015
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So let's take AIA A-Life Med Regular as an example. As a standalone medical plan, it is guaranteed renewable even after I diagnosed with an illness? Same for plans from other companies? There is a "non-cancellable" policy mentioned in the contract?

So what advantages are there for ILP? What I can only think of...
-forced savings
-tax deduction for portion added to investment (but that may gradually lessen since insurance charges increase with age)
-more stable investment funds (?)
-better service from agent (i guess they get higher commission from ILP) and hopefully get good agent that can also educate you on choices rather than having to ask in forums?
-can attach additional riders ?
-slightly lower insurance charges perhaps?




willwen
post Dec 30 2017, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(rcantona7 @ Dec 28 2017, 02:18 PM)

Let me take one example for Age 35 medical card rm150/month
rm1800 p.a x 35 years up to age 70 = Rm63k exchange for 1m unlimited protection
in the end of policy period u still get back your cash value.
Is this ILP? Because I paid similar amount for ILP but much less protection (I think less than RM200k lifetime limit). For 1m unlimited protection I was quoted around rm3k p.a.

BTW, does PruHealth have this: "including take home drugs, examination tests & consultation" for outpatient cancer/kidney treatment (which is mentioned in PruValue Med)
willwen
post Jan 1 2018, 06:00 PM

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I already have medical ILP with annual limit $X.

Is it a good idea to top up with a standalone medical card from another company with deductible $X but with much higher limits? What are the cons to this?

This post has been edited by willwen: Jan 1 2018, 06:01 PM
willwen
post Jan 1 2018, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(lifebalance @ Jan 1 2018, 06:45 PM)
Why not just get an upgrade in the ILP instead of maintaining 2 separate medical card?
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mainly to save on the premium and invest the savings myself.
the ILP already there, so let it be.
get a new standalone card to cover for future inflation....
don't put all eggs in one basket mah...
willwen
post Jan 3 2018, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(roystevenung @ Jan 3 2018, 12:38 AM)
For convenience sake, it is advisable to restrict the claims to one insurer and best option is to UPGRADE the existing medical card and not maintain 2 medical cards.

Unless during the application for upgrade, the client has other health issues which may impose Exclusion. Then it is recommended to have 2 cards. If not, best to stick to one card.

Handling of the claims with second insurer can at times be mind boggling as the second insurer will require the exact medical reports which were submitted directly to the first insurer. Ding dong here, ding dong there, which causes delay in paying the claims.

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Here is a claims scenario that you may want to consider as well...

Assuming that the first card comes with an annual limit of RM50K, while the second with RM50K deductible and RM1M limit and the surgery costs RM80K.

Since the first card is only able to provide Guarantee Letter up to RM50K, upon discharge, the client is required to pay in cash RM30K and using the original receipt, Letter of Settlement (from 1st insurer) & hospital medical reports, file a claim from the second insurer.

If both cards were from the same insurer, then it is possible to seamlessly have the second medical card to cover the hospital charges variances without having the client to fork out his own money.
I would imagine I could just show two medical cards, although from different companies, and the hospital can work things out...

willwen
post Jan 4 2018, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Jan 4 2018, 12:38 AM)
nope it doesnt work that way. can only use one at one time.
the hospital should work things out lah and know who to charge for what... that is called service mah... wtf, charge so much, service like s***... print bill and collect money is the most efficient...

private hospital nowadays are like those roadside taxi drivers in town... even those are just a minority...

wait until one day some disruptive technology comes along like Uber did...

This post has been edited by willwen: Jan 4 2018, 06:43 PM

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