Hi there.

May I kindly suggest that, instead of generalising all topics related to religion into a single thread of 'All about religion' in the Real World Issues forum, how about creating a new forum dedicated to the discussion and debates for different topics relating to the religion. Instead of a 'Real World Issues' forum, why not have a 'Religious debates' forum where people can create different kinds of threads in order to discuss the many different kinds of issues that involve religion?

I'm sure that we are secular enough of nation to allow different types of people to have the freedom to discuss different types of religion pertaining to religion.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 2 2016, 08:07 AM

Hi everyone.

This is a duplicated post of https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4134032, and the reason I post it here as well is because I needed those who support the notion to help me post there as well, so that we can get a dedicated forum where different kinds of discussions that involve religion can be created, instead of lumping a generalised, "all about religion" thread like the one we have in the Real World Issues forum.

Shown below is my post to see if Lowyat forums will allow the creation of this new, dedicated forum about religion.

I say No as you will be the one that lit the place in fire.

Religion is not stuff to be debated, especially for those that is committed to religion.

You want to have debate, debate it in your atheist thread. Period.

please no.. i disagree..

what to expect from keyboard warriors?

No, plain old NO.
Period

In that case, why is there an 'All about religion' thread in the RWI forums? Aren't there already people debating in there?

All I'm asking is that it should not be generalised into a single thread, as there are many different issues and types of religions that can be discussed.


Not everyone is a "keyboard warrior". Some people simply have thoughts to be expressed.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 2 2016, 09:30 AM

I've responded to your post in the other thread. Thanks.

i am pretty sure u are already aware that there are seperate religion threads in serious /k.
why do u feel the need to have the same in RWI?
its still gonna be the same kind of discussions.

anyway from what i understand, most of the religion threads were previously in RWI, then were moved to serious /k.

there are of cos some overlaps here and there with serious /k, so i dont see the need for the RWI section also...then again thats for the admins to decide.

The reason why I asked is that we are not allowed to debate nor discuss religion freely in those threads in Serious /k.

For example, let's just say I wish to discuss the question whether of whether if there's any evidence for god, I know I can't do it in any of the religious threads nor the atheist threads because people from all different religions and atheists alike cannot come together and discuss it. The Christian lounge is only for Christians, and the Muslim lounge is only for Muslims, and they don't like it when people try to discuss such topics in their thread.

So instead of intruding on each of the individual religious threads, why don't we just have a separate forum where different topics in regards to religion can be discussed together, regardless of what religion or non-religion people you are?

In addition, I disagree when you say "it's gonna be the same kind of discussions". There are many different types of discussions pertaining religion, especially the ones when they involve our daily lives, morality, society and politics. So instead of generalising all of those different topics into one "all about religion" thread in RWI, why not have a separate forum where different topics can be created for discussions?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 2 2016, 09:49 AM

i think the rules needs updating, again need to bug admin for that.

and why do u feel the need to enter other threads and discuss about their god? its their belief, not urs.

and if u want to discuss about the existence of god, then a single thread should be more than enough...as in the RWI thread...but in the end it will end up in flaming and ppl are gonna get banned again.

Huh? I did not suggest intruding into other threads to discuss about their god. I was suggesting a separate forum so that all different people with different religion and non-religion can come together to have discussions about different topics that involves religion.

But what if we wish to talk about different topics? There are many different topics that involve religion, and as I have mentioned, it involves our daily lives, morality, society and politics that involves religion. One general thread cannot possibly talk about those different topics that involve religion.

And people getting banned should be their own fault for not following the rules, right? It's not really the fault of the rules nor the forum / threads in place.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 2 2016, 10:02 AM

all i need to know is aliens exist.

For that matter, please consult mod. I am not the person in charged with what to do what not to do in /k, serious /k or RWI.

From my stand point, there is nothing to be discussed among religious people or non-religious people, especially the host like to throw sharp question around freely (read: YOU).

Neither you or anyone in the discussion wanted to let go of your point of view and to embrace each other. You and everyone else is thinking that everyone else is mad/irrational/infidel/monster. What make you think that this will yield any good results?

For the sake of whatever you believe in, would you please just stop?

I'm sorry, what?

Are you saying that people should stop discussing religion altogether? And what do you mean there's "nothing to be discussed" when it involves the real lives of people every day?

In case you didn't know, discussions and debates can provoke open-mindedness and thoughts. Are you saying this is a bad thing? To get people to be open-minded?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 2 2016, 10:06 AM

Religious debates? i wont joint, i wont support but if you insist i will not stop either

it doesnt work here.
like u also dont believe in aliens...

Why? It's not like I'm opening a thread in /k right? We're talking about a separate forum where people can discuss properly instead of trying to go into people's individual religious threads.

If you ask me, this is a win-win situation, people can hang out freely amongst themselves within their own individual religion thread for their fellowship, and they can also come to this new forum where people can discuss and debate about religion freely.

I will believe in aliens if there is evidence, but I don't understand why are you suddenly replying with stuff that is irrelevant to my question though.

I just thought that since we already have a generalised thread titled "All about religion" in RWI, why don't we have a separate forum where different topics can be created instead of a single, generalised thread?

What you do is literally preaching (sorry that I couldn't find a better word to describe you a so called Atheist that work so religiously to promote an idea)

We all are humans, with sets of human nature that we nurtured if from the day we able to accumulate our own thoughts, that we use it day to day to measure the idea we received.

You need to consciously choose to listen to an idea before you can participate in a open minded discussion.

I would advice you to stick with your own gang, discuss whatever you like, and people that think they are fed-up with current ideology, or anyone with a curious mind will eventually stumble into your threads.

All of your threads, is either you yelling an offensive idea to believers, or self-high with an topic. Get a life bro.

Why do you think I did not choose to listen? Isn't the purpose of a form for discussion is exactly that? And by not having a form for discussion, isn't that the same thing as shutting our minds?


Since when was I yelling or what do you mean by "self-hugh" with "an topic"?

In addition, why did you think I do not have a life?

I thought this was clearly specified out:
And hence I do not understand the rationale of needing 10x separate topics. It is the immaturity which led to the downfall of the topic. Immaturity comes from all people religious and non religious alike. When we talk about open minds, ask ourselves are we really open minded? Or is the purpose just to get every points across while nitpicking whenever possible?

Debate comes with maturity. Some times by leaving the points as it is for people to ponder is good enough instead of keep harping on and on and trying to nitpick every single little points. There is no winning nor losing concept when it comes to open mindness; but sadly, many just wants to feel that win and hence keep on harping while a lot of bystanders just watch and laugh.

No, I don't want to see a bunch of threads where they circle jerk their own religions.

I'm pretty sure you are going to spam "If God exists, please show me some evidence that kind of thing" around that section.

It's fking annoying.

First of all, like all debater out there, we like to nitpick phrases and statement out of context.

So you do here.

When I say not debatable, I mean you don't go into the Christian community and ask why to put their faith in some non existent higher being that deem they all have sinned and the only way of redemption is to go to some specific place every Sunday.

Nor you shove this topic under the nose of these Christian, and hinting them that these thread is around and if you have no life outside of LYN, please go and reply one by one.

You get me?

It is perfectly fine for me, that a bunch of atheist to discuss this matter, even mock as much as their sarcasms allow. But please, have some mercy on those poor souls that they cannot accept the idea of no god, and keep your opinions to yourselves.

Agree to disagree is just about as hard as it can get for keyboard warriors.... oh well.
Will just end my final comments here and anyone with common sense can just browse and devour on the thoughts this topic has provided.

Why do automatically assume that ALL people who debate MUST be immature and not open minded? Isn't that a hasty generalisation?

Again, this is another hasty generalisation and an anecdotal fallacy on your part to be absolutely bias that with the mantra that "there can NEVER be open minded and mature people whenever it comes to a debate".



That is why this suggestion was made, so that instead of going into other people's fellowship of religion in their own threads, why don't we have a separate forum that allows the creation of more discussion topics instead of one generalised topic with the title of "All about religion" in the Real World Issues forum, when in fact, there are many different topics that involves religion and cannot be lumped together in a single thread? This is more of a logistic problem, and it is highly impractical to have only one generalised thread.


Why do you assume people who disagree are automatically assoicated with a "keyboard warrior"? Why do you love constantly making all of these confirmation bias with hasty generalisation that people who can type and express themselves online are ALL like that?

I certainly hope for you to reconsider my thoughts on the topic as well, nad would like you to do so WITHOUT BIAS.

"Credo quia absurdum" aka "I believe because it is absurd." (De Carne Christi 203, Tertullian)

For most believer out there, there is nothing to be debated/discussed/reasoned at all, even how much empirical evidence you show him, or how their statement lack fundamental rationale, they will go on to believe. Some time, you got to accept the fact that something is so absurd that it is only require faith to believe in such statements.

Then we have the infestation of internet bully, troll, flamer, bait-er and etc etc etc that will definitely misuse this so called religion section for their own agenda.

IMO, the chaos it promote will out weight any benefits it provides

This ne section will rather be a more of a accurate depiction of logistic nightmare, which is a dungeon infested of internet bully, troll, flamer, bait-er and etc etc etc that will definitely misuse this so called religion section for their own agenda.

There you go again, making hasty generalisations and anecdotal fallacies as if there can NEVER be people who can hold mature discussions. If your logic is indeed correct, why then, do you guys even bother allowing people to even participate in that very one, generalised thread (All about religion) in RWI? If EVERYONE is the internet bully like you have assumed, then why even bother allowing people to have a space in RWI to discuss any topics at all?

And what is the agenda that you speak of? Another assumption about people that you've never met in your life?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 3 2016, 08:27 AM

Are you able to give an example of what is this absurd thing that the only way to go with it is to have faith for the sake of having faith in order to be consistent with reality?

There you go again, making hasty generalisations and anecdotal fallacies as if there can NEVER be people who can hold mature discussions. If your logic is indeed correct, why then, do you guys even bother allowing people to even participate in that very one, generalised thread (All about religion) in RWI? If EVERYONE is the internet bully like you have assumed, then why even bother allowing people to have a space in RWI to discuss any topics at all?

I hate to quote people that participate in the discussion, because you make me feel that you do not pay enough respect to each other in these discussion, but then here we go











We as human being are always bound by generalisation and assumptions. That's how society works.

Allow me to give you an example, you bring a gun to a bank and when the security accused you for attempting of robbery when he saw you with your gun in the bank, do you think anyone believe it when you said that you accidentally bring it in to the bank at the first place?

I understand your feeling that you are compelled "to enlighten" anybody that do not share your beliefs, but please, do it in your own space, there is no need for intrusive preachings here in a common place.

Something like god, angels, miracles, praying etc

They are so absurd that you only require faith to believe their existence.

In what way exactly I did not pay enough respect? Are you able to clarify this? Or are you making another assumption and imagining about the intentions of other people?

Appeal to tradition and appeal to popularity fallacy. Just because that's how society works with generalisations and assumptions, IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEANS that people can never be educated on how to be BETTER with LESS generalisations and LESS assumptions.

That depends on whether I am robbing the bank. If I am not robbing the bank, why would bring a gun into the bank? And even if I bring a gun into the bank for absolutely no reason, then no matter how I am accused of robbing a bank, the law can never logically punish me for a bank I have not robbed, with the exception of me possibly breaking the law to bring a gun into the bank in the first place when there are rules clearly stated that no weapons should be allowed. Assumptions and generalisations can be made, but it does NOT mean I am, in reality, robbing a bank. In a fair, rational, and just society, I should only be arrested and charged for bringing a weapon in the bank, and not be charged for the false accusation made by the security, i.e. that I have robbed the bank.



That is why I was suggesting for a separate forum in the first place! That is why I created this thread! I created this thread in order to suggest a separate forum for all people with different faiths and all atheists and anti-theists alike to talk about religion. I did NOT say I am going to intrude into other people's space!

In fact, there's already the "All about religion" thread in RWI. I am only asking that to be expanded into a separate forum. I am NOT asking to intrude people's space. Please get that right at least.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 3 2016, 09:58 AM

Isn't then, 'faith', by its definition, irrational? Why not reject irrational beliefs?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 3 2016, 10:00 AM

Above is what I just mentioned about nitpicking every single points.... well done for proving my points.

Will leave it as it is, as whatever I commented automatically becomes "generalization" which when one forummer says it is generalization; I guess it must be true I am generalizing.

That's why your preposition is not a good idea.

Adui. I'm really tired replying all this.
I'm out.

What you see as "nitpicking", I prefer to call it being thorough so that I do not miss any details.

No, you were generalising because you ASSUMED that ALL people are the same kind of people. Is this how you wish to justify things in life? By ASSUMING that everyone is the same on this planet Earth?

I think you may have misused the word. Here, let me show you:

The word preposition is meant for grammar purposes. Did you mean to use the word 'presupposition'? If so, you may have to clarify what is your position on the definition of faith because I was merely using your own logic on why "faith is needed".

I think the mod/staff/admin have already gave their opinion regarding this suggestion..you should take the hint and leave it as it is rather than discussing this matter "thoroughly" as you've put it.

Some people just need to learn how to accept "no" and move on with their lives. Geez...

With your logic, if someone were to do something wrong, everyone should just shut-up and accept. So the next time I see a woman getting mugged, should I also just keep quiet and ask the women to accept it and just move on?

I don't know why YOU PEOPLE LOVE to make ASSUMPTIONS, and then expect everyone to accept and keep quiet about it.

Haven't you guys learned that "ASSUME make an ASS out of U and ME"?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Dec 3 2016, 07:04 PM

We don't need any new religion threads where others can come in and fling poo because it's pretty clear it's not needed and that OP is a troll looking for an easy way to not get permabanned. We don't need more threads where people are trying to convert others to their viewpoints and berating others for believing in their respective religions/faiths albeit in a roundabout way. He can try to pretend that's not what he's doing but anyone with half a brain can tell from his post history

Is this another hasty generalisation where you ASSUMED everyone is the same?

How are debates and discussions the equivalence to "berating others" or "convert others to their viewpoints"? With your logic, are you saying that ultimately, there shouldn't be any debates at all? Why then, is there still an "All about religion" thread?

There's no need to beat about the bush. You don't need to make your flimsy excuses and justifications to me, I am not a forum moderator. We both know what you're doing here. Just because you try to use fancier words and terminology that you googled off the internet to show the sophistication of your wordplay as smokescreen, does not mean that you're not a troll attempting to show the "ignorant and unwashed religious masses" the error of their ways. We get enough of your lower quality brethren in /k without needing sanctioned threads where you can deftly avoid getting banned for baiting and trolling religious people who are rather delicate about perceived attacks on their religious beliefs.

I have no need to do what you assume I was doing. They are not "fancier" words other than accurate usage of words that are appropriate for different situations.

And what exactly do you think you were ASSUMING I was doing?

Why would they automatically be seen as a default "troll"? Have you not ever meet people who genuinely why people wanted to find out what's with the world and all?

How on earth exactly do you see me to be evaluated as a "lower quality" /k brethren? And wouldn't you think that the creation of separate forums will ACTUALLY prevent "delicate" religious people to be questioned in their very own religious threads where they are having their own fellowship? The creation of the separate forums for discussions ARE MEANT to exactly PREVENT THAT!

You know. In fact, in order to prove my damn sincerity of why I am doing this, I am willing to chat with you via PM, and even via a Skype or Steam microphone, less you think I'm trying to "troll" here.

I believe it's /proposition/.

That would make sense.

Why do you need another thread for that?

In Christianity thread alone, you asked questions for which none can satisfy your curious absurdity.

In Atheist thread, you ridiculed Christians and the concept of God.

So why would you need to create another specific thread for that? Is it to ridicule people of other faiths?

You have a weird fetish. I'll give you that.

Possible he is just trying spamming to increase his post count and stars

Later maybe another aromachong

Your analogy is not applicable to the issue here, what does a mugging case got to do with your request of "debating" religion?

Your true intentions wrapped with some brownish matter stank from miles away

I'm afraid of this too