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 All-New B8 Volkswagen Passat

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zweimmk
post Nov 8 2016, 08:22 AM

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For those worried about car value and mechatronics issue - then your only choice is the Passat 2.0.

It sports the same GTI mk7 engine and the same 6 speed wet clutch. The gadgets it has on it is equal or better than the GTI mk7 as well. For anyone who is uncertain about the 2.0 variant, they only need to look at the history of the GTI mk7 to get some feedback about the car.

The only downside for the 2.0 variant is the more expensive major servicing cost compared to the 1.8.

On a personal note, I feel they should have just gotten rid of the 1.8 and the 7 speed dry clutch and went with the 2.0 engine and 6 speeder instead for all the lineups. This would at least solve 2 issues - the drastic car depreciation and restore consumer confidence.

Think of the Passat 2.0 as the GTI but with a boot.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Nov 8 2016, 08:25 AM
zweimmk
post Nov 9 2016, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 9 2016, 03:23 AM)
Beige interiors are rather rare... they are only available on very few interior trims, sadly. I also prefer a beige interior, but not necessarily beige/white seats (because they do get dirty/colored easily... even by wearing jeans). Dark grey is much easier to maintain. Then again... if they preview the Passat with that car, it might have that interior...?

Most Malaysians don't know about wet clutch dry clutch, for them all DSG are scary. So yes, the 2.0 may be more reliable, but will second hand buyers buy it?
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Many are aware of the more reliable wet clutch now. The 2nd hand value of the GTI is much stronger than all the dry clutch variants and yes, there is a demand.
zweimmk
post Nov 9 2016, 08:10 AM

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QUOTE(kluseng @ Nov 9 2016, 07:54 AM)
What's the expected 3 years second hand value of a Passat in terms of percentage depreciation? Possible to buy at 50% of the new price in 3 years?

How much to allocate to maintain a wet clutch Passat a year which is out of warranty?
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The 7 speeders drop price a lot primarily due to 2 factors.

1 - reliability issue
2 - the recent firesale by VGM before porsche salzburg took over - both owners and 2nd hand dealers are reeling by their throw price tactic to shed inventory

So yes, it's possible to purchase a car at 50% of the new price within 3 to 4 years.

Wet clutch will cost more, not sure how much more. Basic maintenance is sufficient unless you have been modding the car then wear and tear will surely be high.

For the new passat, i expect the 1.8L variants to drop in price quite drastically within the first 3 years. Don't be surprised if they fire sale the 1.8L variant early if sales do not meet expectation.
For the 2.0 passat, discounts would be like the gti, very very limited.
zweimmk
post Nov 10 2016, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 10 2016, 04:12 AM)
Mh... but isn't that also because zoom zoom? laugh.gif People who are into the Golf GTI don't have too many alternatives, and they may not be the most rational people in the first place.

The Passat is a heavier car, and it is designed for comfort. Calling it a GTI with boot is stretching things... it might be fast, sort of, but it's more for driving fast on the highway.
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People who are into the Golf GTI are performance enthusiasts. Or why buy the GTI in the first place?

Yes, the Passat is indeed the heavier car but it sports the same exact engine from the GTI with the same horsepower and gearbox. There's even the R line variant which sports the same R engine and complete with 4motion in the Passat that is currently on sale in Deutchland.

But you are right, it is indeed a longer car so it would not handle as well as the GTI on a winding road but it certainly would not lack the power.
zweimmk
post Nov 14 2016, 07:48 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 12 2016, 10:28 PM)
On a Comfortline Passat the 6.5" unit as seen on the photo costs RM 1555. GPS for that unit is another RM 2656. Instead, you could get the 8" Discover Pro (same arrangement, same buttons, but the screen goes right up to the buttons and they are a bit further away), which is RM 11058 and already includes GPS. IMHO the best choice for Malaysia would be the 6.5" HU, but instead of GPS they should have picked App Connect and Media Control. Lets you control the HU from your tablet, and lets you use Android Auto etc. Costs RM 1340, or RM 981 without the tablet stuff. The leftover money could be invested in the 11 speaker Dynaudio sound system for RM 6342, adjustable suspension for RM 5744, raised ride height for RM 2896 (15 mm higher, good for those bad Malaysian roads), 360° GTA style camera from above the car for RM 4164. Heads-up display is RM 2704, while that awesome digital dashboard is RM 3183. LED headlights are RM 5217, while the matrix LED option is RM 10268. But I have the HID version of that (which probably isn't as good), and it's awesome. I love it. The options list on Comfortline Passats is 107 items long.

One thing they really should have included is Adaptive Cruise Control for only RM 2154! It's mind boggling that they didn't include that option, given the other way too expensive kit they've included that's just gimmicky and pointless. Especially in combination with DSG it's a great feature. Prevents accidents/lessens accidents, and makes driving just so much more comfortable. Plus the competitors don't have it.
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Adaptive cruise control is expensive and actually fairly complicated to implement if you've actually seen how they retrofit the damn thing. Granted, it won't be hard at all in the factory but there are quite a bit of components and parts that come with this feature. I would definitely have loved to see it for sure but with the weak ringgit, it was inevitable that some features would be cut.

They select features based on what is high on most Malaysian's priority list and wants.
zweimmk
post Nov 14 2016, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 14 2016, 07:52 AM)
Would you want adaptive cruise control?

I quoted from the price list... it's RM 2154 for adaptive cruise control. VWM is probably going to pay less for it. And they've opted for options that make less sense than that. With people being so annoyed of traffic jams, don't you think a car that accelerates and brakes by itself would sell like hot cakes?

On a Golf at least the driver fatigue warning system is something like RM 1500, and all it does is tell you you're tired. Which it doesn't, because I have the feature, I have it activated, and it only ever reminded me that I'm tired when I was fully awake. On the other hand, those times where I AM tired...? Nope. Never alerted me. It's as pointless as it can be, and it doesn't work. Also, those leather seats are several thousand Euros probably, and what's the point of those? Burn your ass? The powered boot lid (annoyingly slow, probably) is IIRC also twice as expensive as the adaptive cruise control.
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Yes I would like to have the ACC definitely but I don't think it is that cheap. I think being CKD, many of the more advance features are brought in from other countries. If you factor in the cost of transport and exchange rates, the price should be a lot higher than what you list.

The driver fatigue warning system is a waste of time. I rather they give me something else than that nonsense. I agree, it doesn't work. It never comes on even when I was starting to feel the weariness.

The things I want in the car are as follows

2.0 GTI engine (220Ps)
6 or 7 speed WET clutch
LED headlights or HID is fine
Electric folding mirrors
Adaptive Cruise Control
Auto Air conditioning 3 zones
17 or 18 inch wheels


Don't really care much about the DCC or electric chairs or electric boot or the radio player that much. Lane departure warning and blind spot monitoring system or reverse camera I can do without as well


zweimmk
post Nov 15 2016, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 15 2016, 01:26 PM)
Apologies. Actually I forgot the car is CKD.

Anyway, those are the prices that a customer in Germany has to pay to get these options, excluding any discounts that the dealer may give customers (which is something like 10-15% on the car? Maybe more). Don't you think that VWM is getting better prices?

There's a company selling everything you need to upgrade to ACC on the B8... the kit costs around RM 4700, but you have to consider that they need to get the parts as spare parts, which are more expensive than what they cost when they get installed when making the car, and they need to supply parts that already exist on the car, like parts of the front bumper etc. So you'll have to pay for it twice, once when getting the car and once to upgrade.
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I checked on ebay and various sites. The kit alone will cost well over RM4000 if you buy from sellers direct, that price does not include shipping, and does not including duties. But that's only one part of the story, you still need to pay for the labor charges as well as the programming charges. Which is why retrofitting adaptive cruise control/self park/lane departure warning will cost around RM10000+ because they are part of the system and there are many other accessories which needs to be bought and fixed in order for the entirety to work. I will stress again, this is quite a labor intensive job - chairs and carpet will need to be removed, the dashboard possibly as well, and the wiring will need to be rerouted and after all that is done, it needs to be programmed and tested.

Of course, if this was done in the factory, it will be a lot easier but still doesn't change the fact that different parts will need to be brought in (subject to duties) and additional labor will be required.

Btw, VWPCM might not get it any cheaper because they conduct their purchases in USD. They also need to account for the transport cost and the weak ringgit isn't helping anyone.
zweimmk
post Nov 16 2016, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Nov 16 2016, 02:41 AM)
Yeah, but you're paying double if buying the kit...

I don't think you need to remove chairs and carpet... the front bumper needs to be changed, and you need to wire things up. You need the mid level dashboard AFAIK, and at least the 6.5" screen. Things like that.

I'm saying that at least on the Highline, possibly on the Comfortline they should have ACC as one of the options. And that means buying the parts in bulk. Even if it isn't 2k, even if it is 4k or so... wouldn't that be worth it? Especially given that the VW system works exceptionally well. I was considering a Honda Civic when buying my Golf, more affordable and also not too bad, but during research people complained about the Civic slamming the brakes hard when approaching a bridge. And other wrong alerts. Not having those on the VW system... especially nothing dangerous.
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There's a site that lists quite a bit of details about what needs to be done when you retrofit. At the very least, you will need to remove the carpets and part of the dashboard removed. The sheer number of wires involved is also mind boggling.

http://jimmy-cbx.blogspot.my/p/passat-everything.html

It covers just about everything. There's also a full golf 7 section about what can or cannot be done. Knock yourself out, the sky is the limit here if you have the budget.

In Malaysia, all options are selected for you. There are no options which you can pick unless you talk to the dealer about a custom version, and for those cases, the price becomes staggering.
It's entirely possible to get a 4motion Passat with Golf R engine if you know the channels to approach, the question is - are you willing to pay those prices?



zweimmk
post Nov 17 2016, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(s65amg @ Nov 16 2016, 09:05 PM)
Yup. i think the price is still a bit expensive considering how much issues this brand had for our market. Most of the potential buyers surely from the d segment car not the compact luxury car like the c class or 3er or A4 because of these trio has better brand image. Somemore judging from my initial impression on showroom last week, i still think those trio offer a better quality car such as interior materials & the feel of the switchgears but if compare with the d-segment, i must say the b8 is definitely on top. If they were to attract buyers, they should've put a more attractive price.
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I feel they should have priced the B8 2.0 at about 170k to 180k. That would have made the price extremely enticing. There's currently nothing in the market that can actually match the performance of the 2.0. and kit wise, it quite up there with the luxury marque.

The closest rival in terms of size and specs would be the 320i/A4 B9/C200. If it was priced at 175k - 180k, the gap would have been much wider and thus more appealing for those who wants luxury but not willing to pay over 200k for the car. At 198k, it loses quite of a bit of the advantage it commands. Most of the luxury entry level sedan is priced around 238k to 250k region.
zweimmk
post Nov 17 2016, 06:22 PM

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The Passat 2.0 version is quite reliable. It shares the same engine and drivetrain as the mk7 GTI and there isn't much negativity about the mk7 Golf GTI.


zweimmk
post Dec 5 2016, 10:41 AM

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For me, the only flaw (other than with the price) with the B8 Passat is the passenger space and the high hump transmission tunnel. In terms of everything else such as cargo loading (boot space), it's actually one of the best in its class.

Performance and handling wise - also among the best in its class.

The Camry, Accord, Nissan Teana or Peugeot 508 isn't going to match this car anytime soon in terms of power or handling. Arguably only the Ford Mondeo Ecoboost and possibly the Mazda 6 are the only cars that may equal or better it in terms of handling but not power.

The B8 2.0 EA888.3 engine has been known to produce easily 220 to 230PS of power on an actual dyno - which is exactly what is stated on paper or more. The same can't be said for the other cars listed above.

To put that power in context -

It has higher horses compared to the F30 320i facelift and about the same figure as the F30 330i facelift
It has higher horses compared to the A/CLA/C/E200 and A/CLA/GLA/C/E250

This is a car really for the performance junkies.


zweimmk
post Dec 6 2016, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Dec 6 2016, 04:08 AM)
No. The high hump is for AWD, as you can order the Passat with AWD and thus there needs to be space for the propshaft.
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Yes, in Deutchland there is even a B8 variant that comes loaded with the Golf R engine and 4motion. That's by far the most desirable car in the VW line of sedan cars - a Golf R with a boot.

But of course if you don't mind paying a bit more then the B9 A4 Quattro is also essentially the same car but with a nicer badge. Or perhaps just go for the RS models.


zweimmk
post Dec 6 2016, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(teikwing @ Dec 6 2016, 02:09 PM)
On another note, is the 2.0 EA888 the same engine with those in Audi's lineup which was known to have oil consumption issues? Perhaps different tune?

Considering the Passat 206TSI R-Line here in the Land Down Under which has the same engine as the Golf R and with AWD.
Well the models you mentioned above has a hump due to the fact that they are RWD.
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There are 2 variants now

EA888.1 & EA888.3

888.1 is found in the mk6 GTI, Passat 1.8 B7 and a number of other models before and during 2013. This engine only features direct injection

888.3 is the latest generation. If I'm not mistaken, it features both port and direct injectors to solve the issue of carbon buildup. It still consumes oil if driven hard and very spirited on a daily basis.

There are some marked differences between the GTI and R engines. The R engines features additional reinforcements and material build differences to handle the higher stresses caused by the bigger turbo.
zweimmk
post Dec 8 2016, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Dec 8 2016, 06:03 AM)
I drove a F10 1 series and own a Golf Mk 7... the interior in the Golf does feel better IMHO. Better materials, better quality. The only thing I preferred in the F10 was that they had some cushioning for the knees.

@Drian: Oh I see. Hm.
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F10 is 5 series. Are you comparing mk7 Golf against the F20 (1 series) or older variant or against the F10 (5 series)?
zweimmk
post Aug 12 2017, 08:58 AM

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As a former owner, I will say that the Passat is one of the best D segment money can buy, but with that being said, I will NEVER EVER recommend anyone to buy a new unit first hand because of the way the marque throws price on its cars. Many owners and former owners including myself have been burnt by this.

In order to minimize resale value losses, these are my recommendations:

1.8 - Only buy it if the price is at 110k or below. The resale value on this is extremely bad due to the lack of confidence from the consumers in the 7 speeder dry clutch.

2.0 - This model won't really drop price that much, but it would be considered a damn good deal if you can get this car at 150k to 160k. By the year end, if there still any 2016 cars, then 145k to 155k should be the price that you can purchase it at.
zweimmk
post Aug 12 2017, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(kluseng @ Aug 12 2017, 10:57 AM)
Is your Passat the wet clutch or dry clutch type? How long did you own it and what was your ownership experience? What was the longest time it spent in the workshop?
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1. Dry clutch
2. Longest time, 2 weeks (after CNY week)

Unlike many other owners, I've actually had a fairly good and decent experience overall. I had my car for exactly 5 years (2012 model).

During my course of my 5 year ownership, I had the following replaced.

Battery failed twice - 1st time was around 1/1/2 year of ownership. 2nd time was after 3 years
Clutch and Flywheel replacement - done once after 3 years of ownership. The new clutch is still going strong.
Mechantronic replacement - didn't take longer than 2 days. - Replaced only once in 5 years just around 103,000km
Fuel Control Module - Replaced once, within 2 days.
Water Pump - Replaced once, within 3 days - serviced my car at the same time.

Didn't pay a single cent. All covered under warranty

The car is only worth RM60,000+ if I sell it myself. Secondhand dealers will only take it for RM45,000 to RM50,000.
Market price of the car is about RM63,000 to RM65,000 (insurance agreed value)

Why is the resale so bad?

1. VW throw price (firesale in early 2016)
2. Public lack of faith in the 7 speeder dry clutch, I don't think they can ever recover from this
3. Public perception that continentals are expensive to maintain after the warranty period and parts are expensive. It can be if the owner does not know where to service their car or buy parts.


zweimmk
post Aug 12 2017, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 12 2017, 02:28 PM)
Lousy marketing apart from past issues. Problem with those marketing people, they aren't straightforward to point out issues and asked for solution when dealing with principal engineering division.

When public confidence lost, began throwing discount hoping for more people to buy. Always the same case, wonder why can't they hire engineers to manage the company instead? It's not that hard to bring up the DCT technology as the issue was caused by 1 thing. Sorry, I am not allowed to share since my buddies joined car company. It can be solved and DCT will be no issue.
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I think a large part of the problem is the red tape they need to deal with back in Germany. At that point in time, they were also dealing with gearbox issues overseas and it got so bad until it blew up in their face overseas as well.

In Malaysia's, they also had an inventory issue which they needed to clear and the only way forward was to throw price. Prior to the owners DSG7 protest group, they were actually doing very well and selling their cars in healthy numbers. They made the mistake of not addressing the issue quickly enough and this led to their eventual downfall after 2014.

I know what is going on with their minds, sacrifice the current batch of owners and move on to the next by throwing price and getting rid of inventories. IMO, they chose the worse possible way to get rid of existing inventory.

If they want to regain their sales number, the easiest solution is just pair their cars with either a 6 speeder auto for the 1.2 turbo Vento and 6 speed wet clutch for the rest of their car lineup.

The Tiguan is a good example - it sells well because it uses the 6 speeder wet clutch.
zweimmk
post Aug 13 2017, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(kluseng @ Aug 12 2017, 08:12 PM)
IMO the problem is that for CKD cars you have to move the stock by whatever means and the easiest is to throw price. Otherwise the cars keep piling up in the yard as you can't stop the assembly line completely.

VGM doesn't have the capability to change the model in any way and our market is too small for VW to customize their cars for us.
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They have periodic meetings with owners and clubs. They know exactly how people feel about their products. All they need to do is launch their newer cars with the 6 speeder wet clutch and give it 2 to 3 different trims and much of the sales problem will be solved. Otherwise, the sales problem will just repeat itself and they will only be able to sell their 7 speeders only when there's a huge sale ongoing.

They need to stop trying to convince the public about their 7 speeder dry clutch reliability, as far as I'm concerned, that ship has sailed and it's not coming back - not for a long time.

I don't think they have that much of a problem customizing for what will work in our markets. But that is a discussion for another day.
zweimmk
post Aug 13 2017, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(sonyman @ Aug 13 2017, 07:48 AM)
Plus in the olden days. When there were  really hot. The sales ppl were all cocky.

Anyway today is today. So things have changed. I still won't own one but if I have the money. I go next door and get a Volvo. Or drive down further to look at a BMW or a Mercedes. Why waste time on a VW. Especially in Malaysia.
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Because they cost too much?

Although BMW has known to throw price as well. But you really get a very basic car for a lot of money, this is the same for a Mercedes although I'm not sure what kind of car you can get with a Volvo under 200k.

Let's face it, there really isn't any other new car out there which can offer as good a value and performance as the Passat B8 2.0. Certainly not the Accord, nor the Camry or the Mazda 6. The closest rival would be the Ford Mondeo, the Peugeot 508 is totally out of its league until the new model comes.
zweimmk
post Aug 14 2017, 08:02 AM

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QUOTE(ionStorm @ Aug 13 2017, 10:46 PM)
If I were to buy a secondhand Passat, how would I go about determining if the clutch and mechatronics is the way it should be? Can the SC check and verify that all is in good condition?
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For 1.8 7 speeders

You can only request for an EKG test at the SC to verify your mechatronics system is in good health. The clutch needs no test, this is something that you can feel the moment you go from 1st gear to 3rd, literally the car will be shaking if the clutch is worn.

That said, even though they have reduced the failure rate of the mecha system; the problem is still there - I have yet to meet anyone who has never ever replaced their mechatronics at all for 7 speeder models.

This is also why the car suffers poor resale, its feels like driving a ticking timebomb - every time you start the car, there's always that fear in the back of the head that something will go wrong.

A lot of us owners or former owners always have this running joke that if the car didn't naik tow truck, it's not a VW tongue.gif

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