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 Ultimate Discussion of ASNB (47457-V) Se7en, Wholly owned subsidary of PNB (38218-X)

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dasecret
post Oct 19 2016, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ Oct 19 2016, 01:48 PM)
I have zero FD now. ASX:EPF:stocks:eGIA:UT is 380:120:20:5:1. When I retire n fulltime in managing my money, hopefully can rebalance to 200:100:0:5:200. A big portion will be moved to UT.
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Stumbled upon this post.

Out of curiosity, why not increase the stocks portion when you can manage your money full time? Returns can be better than UT. Ppl go into UT because it requires less monitoring.

Also, with that revised ratio, which class of asset would you be drawing your daily expenses from?
dasecret
post Oct 19 2016, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ Oct 19 2016, 02:24 PM)
Stocks are too much hassle, esp rights, prefer to leave it to d fundmanager. Even though fulltime I want to be able to go for long holidays aka less monitoring. Daily expenses credit card > from ASx (early of d month) and other days from eGIA.
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True also la, stocks can be quite time consuming especially for day traders. I was more thinking of rebalancing strategy and hence I ask like that. Maybe can replenish the spent ASx when you take profit from UT

I find your allocation quite different from how people here seems to think. From what I gather from the limited time I spent on this thread the others seem to think ASx FP is of no/low risk compared to UT which is of higher risk.

Upon retirement one usually want more stable returns and limited downside risk so that they don't end up with insufficient retirement funds. So generally the personal finance advice is for retirees to move their UT or stocks portfolio into fixed income to avoid excessive downside risk

Of course different story if you have lots of dough and the UT is meant as inheritance to the kids and therefore can take a long term view.

Hope you don't find this unsolicited advice too offensive. Just sharing my observation.
dasecret
post Oct 19 2016, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(bbgoat @ Oct 19 2016, 03:48 PM)
Quote from above:

From what I gather from the limited time I spent on this thread the others seem to think ASx FP is of no/low risk compared to UT which is of higher risk.


That is what I differs from majority of the thinking here. I do think there is some risk here. But it is up to the individual to look at the risk that suits him/her. No one's thinking is alike. That is why we have a FD thread and FSM one.  tongue.gif
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I hold your view too... But obviously we are the minorities
dasecret
post Oct 19 2016, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Oct 19 2016, 05:07 PM)

In FSM UT thread, many  can't even get 6% returns , despite years of experience and knowing all those
sharpe ration, asset allocation and whatnot......that's how different UT is.

Similarly i also agree with you UT is risky, so we put a little there only for play play.
What about you on FD? Would you place so much more money in FD
in comparison to UTs?

I reckon bgoat's FD:UT ratio is like 90:10 or higher,

i hazard a guess, you think FD is a waste of time, the returns cannot catch up with inflation,
etc......better invest more in FSM............
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Hmm... should I even start...

Like everyone else say, it's a personal choice, where to put your money. And it should serve your intended purpose. And that's enough. Doesn't matter what other people say

Unlike guys with big ego. I don't like to compare IRR to see whose ball is bigger but doesn't mean my return is lower than ASx or EPF or yours cool2.gif
dasecret
post Oct 19 2016, 10:57 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This is why I started by saying ... shd I even start

Btw, I've always commented politely and respectfully to everyone in the forum. I appreciate if you can reciprocate that. If you have an issue with someone else take it out with them, not with me

Anyway, I do occasionally comment on this thread. Mainly on things that people don't pay attention to like what is stated in master prospectus. The fact that ASB is not shariah compliant or the increasingly reducing disclosure in the financial statements. I've also stated in the past of the reason I divested my ASx. It's rather personal, I do not expect others to follow.

My issue with FP funds is that it's a crutches that prevent ppl from investing the proper way, and although it's the shortcut, I believe it's very harmful to the market in the long run. We will run out of retail investors and the market would continue to be artificially supported by local institution investors. So no, I don't look down on you guys. I could not agree with the policy makers who allowed this to run for so long and do not have political will to rectify it. Oh well, not something that a public forum really cares I guess

So I strongly encourage young people like ramjade to learn about investments the proper way. Not because I want to put down FD n ASx, but young ppl has a long horizon in front of them n this knowledge will help. Later on can go into stocks, derivatives and who knows what other things fintech will bring
dasecret
post Oct 20 2016, 10:25 AM

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Lazy to reply la, now that my PMS is over sweat.gif
Actually, why are you so upset over things that people say on the cyberspace? Not tired one meh

When I said crutches, now and previously, what I meant is this
It's a crutch for the local equity market - That the institution fund will go buy a falling GLC hence going against free market theory
It's a crutch for the investors - The earning smoothing stop them from learning the relationship of risk and rewards and how to manage downside risks. Because of such product, they would shy away from any non-capital guaranteed products. Sure, in the short term it's great, you get a quasi FD product in behavior but more superior return. But in the long run, we would have generation of retail investors who don't know how to invest
It's a crutch to the politicians - popularity vote and they don't dare to do away with it since it would lose votes

So as long as the product is out there, people will continue to buy, market inefficiency ma, cash on it la. So I don't blame the people, I blame the institutions who go against free market mechanism. I don't only condemn ASx, I also regularly question Tabung Haji and less often EPF because they seem to be doing a better job

Hopefully this is the last of the episode. Doesn't look like anyone is really interested in what I have to say on this topic

dasecret
post Oct 20 2016, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(AIYH @ Oct 20 2016, 11:02 AM)
Yes and yes, but PM somehow lag behind compare to other fund houses... wonder why?  rclxub.gif
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I wondered and even asked some of the PM agency managers

They just give me some run of the mill replies like PM focus on stability bla bla. Their fund volatility tends to be lower than industry average

Another possibility is fund size too big, and therefore mirror-ing index
p/s: This one I quote other ppl, not my original idea. Cannot simply take credit

You would observe that with CIMB Dali funds as well. Used to be fantastic, now is bangwall.gif

pps: If I must speculate on PM fund returns, I think they put the bank's interest before the interest of the investors. But this is pure speculation, no basis or evidence. So I'm staying away lor

This post has been edited by dasecret: Oct 20 2016, 11:12 AM
dasecret
post Oct 29 2016, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(bbgoat @ Oct 29 2016, 12:52 PM)
Actually the first 2 years or so after year 2000 PM also not doing well. Then till this year 2016, 9.5% IRR ! But I like PM's conservative approach. At least they did not go down so much. Just like ASG, last 2 years, I lost 6.7% ! doh.gif At least PM still maintain the value thru' market downturn. Anyway lets see .................... biggrin.gif
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I know you wanted to move on from this topic but only got time to respond properly now. I understand the whole conservative approach thingy that PM UTCs try to convince people with. I just wanted to show you that you may not have compared your PM fund with the right Msia equity fund, ASB VP is one of the worst to compare with

I don't know what fund you hold in PM, so just picked one of the popular one, Ittikal
Attached Image

From the 5 year chart, you can see that both the popular Ittikal and Dali fund has lagged in performance for the past 3 years. And Smart Treasure is noticeably volatile so you would want to avoid that. I've excluded EI small cap since you clearly wants stability. But conclusion is, there are much better funds out there

Anyway, I also understand perhaps you are reluctant to go into FSM since it requires more effort and having to DIY. Another suggestion I have for you is to consider our so called 'in-house UTC' who was active in the FSM thread. He takes a rather conservative approach compared to most of us or PM UTCs. He also has FD promos and competitive forex rates which you would find useful as a one-stop centre

QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 29 2016, 12:54 PM)
dasecret how do you persuade person like unker goat to dump PM? biggrin.gif
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I guess I'm only known as the PM hater in lowyat, people don't remember me for anything else sweat.gif
dasecret
post Oct 30 2016, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(bbgoat @ Oct 30 2016, 10:51 AM)
Thank you for your time and comparison done. I do agreed that those PM funds that I have in my portfolio is not performing. Still looking at any actions that I can take to remedy the situation. But for the past 16 (or rather 14) years, it does show an impressive growth for me.

I do have some of the RHB Smart Treasure, SCOUT, Smart Balance with other banks. Ya, they are volatile esp the SCOUT if I remembered it right.

Anyway, please PM more info on the "in-house UTC".

Thanks !
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No need to PM PM la, lukenn is the one I'm referring to. But he has not been active. So you might need to PM him directly
dasecret
post Oct 30 2016, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(bbgoat @ Oct 30 2016, 11:19 AM)
Haha, sifu introducing another sifu !  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
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I'm no sifu la. Definitely not good enough to advise ppl what to buy. So I seek professional advice instead. But of course I'm more fussy than those who don't DIY as to whose advice I'll listen to

Hope that helps!
dasecret
post Nov 2 2016, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Nov 2 2016, 05:46 PM)
Something I found. Anyway, will email them tonight and ask how their reserves work. tongue.gif

If you have access to all the report, you can see how much their total reserves over the years.

Don't post ASX stuff in FSM or else you will kena bomb. sad.gif anyway it's OT.
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QUOTE(AIYH @ Nov 2 2016, 05:49 PM)
Not sure anyone here kept their report since inception to see the reserve flow and changes?  biggrin.gif
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Maybe I'll kena bomb here instead. Anyway, collating all the past reports would only tell you 1 part of the equation, which is

- how was reserves were used to pay out as dividends in a bad year when current year profit was not enough to cover the current year dividends - Actually I doubt if there's any year they need to do that since the investments are mainly dividend stocks and even when times are bad there would be some dividends declared

The part that I think cannot see is
- unrealised capital loss - previously someone posted how Maybank value to investors are reducing even after you take into consideration dividends declared. Another example is Public Ittikal fund, they continue to distribute 8-9%, but the net returns (capital + distribution) is actually much lower or even negative at some point
So the reserves would mostly to support the NAV of the FP funds at RM1 or above

If anyone has more information to share I'd be more than happy to learn. Tag me please as I don't follow this thread closely
dasecret
post Nov 15 2016, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(lukenn @ Nov 12 2016, 11:00 AM)
Urr ... whats this about eh ? Haven't been on in a while.
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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Nov 12 2016, 12:04 PM)
New potential HNWI customer for you. smile.gif
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Too late la... whatever referral also gone after 2 weeks
HNWI customer still prefers private bankers I think
dasecret
post Nov 16 2016, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 16 2016, 04:35 PM)
If fund sizes for AS1M and ASM have been increased BUT there is no mention of ASW2020,.... does it mean that ASW2020 will be giving out divvies in the form of cheques from September 1st, 2017 ?
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I think too early to tell. The approved fund size is close to RM22billion; and current fund size is about RM18billion. So there's still room for distribution with units for a few more years. they can always increase approved fund size a few years later

Source: Note 9
http://www.asnb.com.my/v3_/pdf/produk/ASW2..._AR-ASW2020.pdf

This post has been edited by dasecret: Nov 16 2016, 04:49 PM
dasecret
post Nov 21 2016, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ Nov 21 2016, 11:12 AM)
Actually dropped to 261 & ASW paid 9.8%.
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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Nov 21 2016, 12:54 PM)
But if u observed, over the years divvy rate dropping...
But on side note, based on news I saw today, almost 90% of ASx holders are bumiputras.. So I guess the rate won't go so low till reach FD rate.. If that happens why just dump in FD, and got pidm protection too devil.gif
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Someone should plot the line graph of annual dividend vs KLCI vs OPR rate (surrogate to FD rate)

Chances are you will see more correlation between dividends and OPR rate instead of KLCI. In the late 90s FD rate is as high as double digit

why? simple, people putting money in ASx (like people here) compares it against FD rate and not KLCI returns or other VP fund returns. and hence PNB will make sure it's say 2% above FD rate and they won't have to worry about bank run or massive withdrawals

This post has been edited by dasecret: Nov 21 2016, 02:59 PM
dasecret
post Nov 21 2016, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Nov 21 2016, 03:01 PM)
But if u see in annual report, the funds are benchmark against KLIBOR 3 months hmm.gif
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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Nov 21 2016, 04:21 PM)
I beg to differ as the benchmark is KLIBOR 3-bulan
Thus, u can't compare ASx FP returns with KLCI or VP funds
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Well, it's a really confused product. It's also stated in the product highlight sheet that

QUOTE
Note: The risk profile of the fund is different from the risk profile of the performance
benchmark


http://www.asnb.com.my/v3_/pdf/produk/ASB/2016_PHS-ASB.pdf

The risk of profile of the fund is actually similar to KLCI where 95% of its investments are in

I think the only comparable product would be Tabung Haji and EPF where the book value of your investment remain constant

Anyway this is a pointless discussion since we will never be able to see what is the fund's current market value and porfolio volatility
dasecret
post Nov 21 2016, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Nov 21 2016, 04:43 PM)
true. we cannot see the true value of the portfolio.. and the best part, SC approved it (based on Master Prospectus & additional prospectus)  devil.gif
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national interest ma flex.gif
dasecret
post Dec 1 2016, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Nov 28 2016, 05:38 PM)
ASNB just published AS1M 2016 AR
http://www.asnb.com.my/v3_/pdf/produk/AS1M...AS1M-Annual.pdf

From the AR, surprise to note tat AS1M didn't make any provision for 'rosot nilai dalam pelaburan disebut harga'
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Last year impaired FGV already ma. I think only when it's prolonged and significant reduction from book value they would make impairment.

QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Nov 29 2016, 12:00 PM)
Just realized tat ASNB have imposed 0.50% Management Fees (MF) on AS1M in 2016 instead of the norm 1% since inception. The savings of 0.50% MF translates to abt RM60mil

Shld they imposed 1% MF, the actual Dividend will b lower than 6.10% announced which may trigger massive 'chain reaction'

Having said tat, I presume ASNB have decided to take a cut on the usual 1% MF in order to 'please' unit holders

Need to keep finger cross on AS1M  sweat.gif
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Good spot! I supposed to this a way that they "manage" the realised profit to maintain the dividend rate to be declared. The basic rule is they can only declare dividends out of realised profits and the management fee is an expense reducing realised profits. If they didn't give discount on management fee I supposed they can only declare 5.6%, in the simplistic way of looking at it
dasecret
post Dec 1 2016, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Dec 1 2016, 04:00 PM)
no wonder this year  "profit" on the Annual Report  biggrin.gif
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If oil and gas sector still does not recover, they will need to impair those O&G counters at some point. Bumi Armada look quite teruk
dasecret
post Dec 1 2016, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Dec 1 2016, 04:30 PM)
I beg to differ
In fact, the carrying value of quoted securities is not mark to market as at financial year end
Instead, the Manager will decide whether to adopt MFRS 139 in the financial statements which doesn't states the 'actual' fair value as at reporting date
Thus, indirectly the Manager is in the 'driver seat' to navigate the financial results of the Fund n present the same to unit holders
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Yes, the investments are carried at cost, they do not apply MFRS 139

But when the market value of the investment is significantly below its cost for a prolonged period, the right thing to do is to impair it. And that is what they did in the previous financial year for FGV, and some other counters. Of course, what is considered prolonged and significant is judgmental
dasecret
post Dec 1 2016, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Dec 1 2016, 04:55 PM)
M curious how the CFO/FC/FM managed to convince the audit partner to pen down his/her signature on the Report  hmm.gif
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The financial statement clearly states that it is not in accordance with MFRS and as long as ASNB can show SC's approval on the exemption I don't think it's a problem for the auditor to sign. In fact it's much easier to sign compared to most PLCs with other problems. Fund accounts are inherently low risk

At the end of the day, everything is clearly stated in the master prospectus and disclosure documents. If investors want to interpret otherwise based on 'national interest' and 'constructive obligations' that's really up to the investors lor

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