Yup, in Taiwan they are also practicing this already lor.... but in many other places where mangoes are native, few practice these kind of methods.

Speaking of mangoes, I think bacang and quini are in season again. Saw a lot of them at the jungle produce section in Stutong, Sarawak. Also available were the egg mangoes (mempelam). Unfortunately, the apple mangoes that were available in great abundance last week has shrunk to about 10-15 kg balance... this was in sharp contrast to the hundreds of kilos that were being sold previously. The boss said will be available again in a few months time wor.

Mr Farmer, how goes your mango experiment?

Hi Icehart,

Do you mean on a hobby scale, or commercial scale?

I've done a small one on a hobby scale, using recycled materials. Mine was a vertical model, using a series of pvc pipes as troughs and plastic cups as growing containers. Didn't perform as well as expected from an economics point of view.

The key constraints were the variety of crops that could be grown under tropical climates were very limited. High valued crops, like salads, tomatoes etc. do not perform well under the high heat - high humidity conditions. Although the plants did grow quite nicely, they tended to yield poorly, eg. salads tended to bolt early and therefore become bitter, tomatoes flowered well, but the fruits were constantly attacked by fungus. Spraying fungicide was a problem because the system was exposed, meaning if I sprayed any chemicals, the fish will die from the poisons.

In addition, the fish species cultivated is also critical to the economic viability of the enterprise. Easy to grow species, like tilapia are not economical for aquaponics, because pond and cage raised fishes are not only cheaper in cost, but grow a hell a lot faster and better. This means that while an aquaponics system will be producing a crop of fish every 8 months or so, a pond of cage system would have already produced 1 harvest, and already getting ready for a second harvest. Pricier species, like Jade Perch would have been a better option, except that getting fingerlings is a pain and demand in Malaysia generally low.

Still, with technology getting more accessible and cheaper by the day, aquaponics in Malaysia might still be economically viable in the near future. For now, its value might be more contained to home-growers, rather than bulk production.

Here are a few blogs and websites that detail out small scale plus commercial scale units:

http://www.ecofilms.com.au/the-cost-of-com...ial-aquaponics/
http://mahfudzaquaponic.blogspot.com/
http://www.affnanaquaponics.com/2009/06/aq...w-to-start.html

ps: Forgot to mention some things... while I've found that aquaponics systems do not work well for shorter term crops such as vegetables, fruit crops such as melons seem to do well. Back in Sepang they had a system that grew Golden Melons on aquaponics/fertigation system, and it yielded fantastically well. But they only ran it for 2 seasons, then shuttered the whole project. Dunno why, maybe they couldn't recoup the costs quick enough...

Nonetheless, if you are keen about aquaponics as a commercial enterprise, do not make the same mistakes I did by growing leafy greens and vegetables... the prices are too low to justify the system. Go with things like melons or pumpkins.

Wow, didn't expect such a good lengthy input from you.
Will study through the links and the overall feasible of aquaponics farm here in Malaysia.
I hope you don't mind me asking few questions in the future via PM.

Icehart:

No problem at all. We are a community, and we help each other where we can.

As we are on the topic of mangoes, here are some of my analysis of mango varieties I am growing right now. They are all seedlings only, and are Southeast Asian:

(i) Maha Chanok (Rainbow Mango)

As the name says, it is produces very pretty fruits. Deep yellow with blushes of pink and red on the shoulder of the fruit. There is a very prominent "horn" a few inches before the nose of the fruit. The shape is oblong, almost tubular, ranging 16-18cm in length. Contains a very thin seed and husk, with an extremely good flesh:pulp ratio. 3 fruits usually make 1kg.

Taste wise, this is one of the best tasting mangoes I've had thus far. Very sweet, intensely rich mango flavors. Flesh is fiberless, deep orange, and melt-in-your-mouth texture. For me, it had a buttery feel.

Unfortunately, this is a monoembryonic variety, so seed propagation will yield seedlings that are not true to type.


(ii) Nam Duc Mai (Water Lily Mango)

A seriously huge mango. The largest I've found on sale weighed in about 3kg (which is near to the world's heaviest mango, recorded in Philippines). The skin is nicely peppered with pearly spots over a green and blush undertone. Notable feature is a slightly tapered shoulder, and a prominently pointed nose.

Taste wise, it is sweet and juicy, quite aromatic. But compared to the Rainbow, pales in comparison. The fruit to seed ration however is excellent, as the seed and husk is small by comparison. Slightly fibrous flesh, but negligible.

The good news is that Nam Duc Mai is polyembryonic, so inadvertantly, it will produce multiple shoots from the germinated seed. The strongest one is often a hybrid (i.e. different from parent), but the smaller shoots produced are true-to-type trees. The seeds are also very easy to germinate, as the husk has a very unique "flat" section towards the shoulder end of the husk, which allows moisture to enter easily and therefore quick germination.


(iii) Gao Lim Krong (Cobra Tongue Mango)

Very similar to Rainbow in shape, but the skin lacks the blush. Typically light lemony yellow colored skin, and a similarly light yellow flesh. Often easily mixed up with Keo Savoy mango which is closely related to it.

Taste wise, the flesh is more complex in taste. Strong sweet note, with a mild lemony sour undertone. Floral fragrance, and very juicy. The seed and husk are much more thicker than Rainbow, although similarly shaped.

There is some debate about whether this is polyembryonic or not. The seeds I germinated looks to be so, as multiple shoots were produced.


(iv) Thong Dam (Black Gold Mango)

Seriously, I do not like this one. Although the fruits are large, the skin remains green all the way through, so you don't know if it is actually ripe or not. Add on the problem of the seed germinating quickly when the fruit ripens, and you've got a real headache. Both fruits I've had already started germinating before I had to chance to eat it. After cutting away all the roots and stuff, I did still managed to get some edible content.

Thong Dam is polyembryonic, and much more vigorous than Nam Duc Mai.

(v) Apple Mango

Possible one of the least favored mango in Southeast Asia, but also one of the most commonly encountered ones in the countryside.

This mango has a poor fruit to seed ratio... sadly. Out of 1kg of fruit, I've only managed to extract 360g of pulp. But if you do get a ripe fruit, you are in for a treat. Very sweet, slightly fibrous, and had a very unique taste that I can only describe as a cross between popcorn, butter, and cream.

The tree is a year-round fruiter, but more pronounced that Nam Duc Mai (which flowers at odd times on different branches throughout the year). In a way, having this tree means year-round supply of mangoes lar. Moderately heavy bearing, with fruits ranging around 200-250g each.

The skin is extremely thin, but holds up well to light handling. If you apply a slight pressure to the fruit and it gives, then it is already ripe. However, most people don't use it for fresh fruit eating. Often it is used to make pickles, either as halved mangoes in vinegar, or as Indian chutney and spiced pickles. I've made a very simple version of this using soy sauce, salt, roasted sesame seeds, chili padi and vinegar... and man, you will be eating plates full of rice at each meal.

Apple mangoes are polyembryonic, and often used as a grafting rootstock for other varieties. Since it is fast growing and quick to establish in the ground, plus the lack of many common mango diseases, grafts of monoembryonics such as Indian mangoes are made onto apple mango rootstock.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Jul 20 2014, 04:05 PM

Am going ahead with my planting of mangoes (small scale). Already planted about 25 Manila and maybe 10 Apple.

Had set a minimum of at least 10 trees of the same variety before planting in the field as I feel that otherwise it's of no commercial value.

Preparing about 60 Chok Anan, in the pre-hardening stage. Land preparation is underway. Should be planting next month when I go back to the farm (pending weather condition).

Honey (Madu), have 10 plant of this but don't really knows the variety. Pre-hardening stage. Nursery supplier just gave me the name and say it's good. I couldn't find much information on it, but since I have 10, shall proceed to planting. Michael, wonder if you have information on this?

Nam Duc Mai, left with 9 in pre-hardening stage. 1 died after transporting. Made 3 grafting from the young plants. Shall hold as quantity is below 10.

Thong Dam, I have only 3 plants and are too young to graft (harvest scion). Shall hold and clone more.

Also just managed to find 2 sources of mango seeds. Shall collect the mangoes seed for propagation when I head back to the farm next month. I did 3 seeds before I left. I broke the husk of the seed and germinated it on raise bed. I read that by removing the husk of the seed, it can germinate faster. Hope to create some rootstock for grafting soon.

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Jul 23 2014, 12:45 PM

My nursery supplier did recommended highly on the Maha Chanok (Rainbow Mango) and Guilin, but at the time I had not done any research on these and made a pass.

My other wish list are R2E2 and Irwin. Shall take a look into Maha Chanok & Gao Lim Krong (Cobra Tongue Mango)
in the mean time.

I read that Thong Dam is classified as a green Mango, you can either eat it green or ripe. Shall worry about the harvesting later, right now am just in the preparing of planting material stage and initial field planting. Am sure we shall have plenty to share in the future.

Mango Fever
Check this out:

http://www.business-standard.com/article/n...72200482_1.html

Depending on where your supplier got it from, it could either be Tommy Atkins (monoembryonic, Indian origin with red skin), the Chok Anan from Thailand, or the Indonesian local "mangga madu" variety. This is a picture of the Indonesian one: http://miyaamigie.tumblr.com/post/65983116...ngga-madu-fruit

It is otherwise known as the "Jakarta" mango. Virtually fiberless, pretty good eating quality and consistent production. The skin is orangey-red when fully ripe, with some white dots. A rather late fruiter, around August like that.

Thong Dam is always green skin. If you see yellow color, chances are already started germinating in the fruit... That's one of the reasons I don't like it... unless very experienced, hard to determine if ripe or not.

Another one for your consideration would be the Taiwanese "Jin Huang" or "Golden Empress/Gold Queen". It is very similar to Nam Duc Mai is size and growth, but apparently flowers multiple times in a year. Don't know if the Taiwanese were just pulling people's legs or not lar, but it seems they have 3 harvests in a year from Jin Huang variety, especially if there is a pronounced dry season.

I have tasted the Jin Huang. It tastes similar to Nam Duc Mai, so much so I am inclined to consider it the same. It could be an improved variety of Nam Duc Mai though.

Oh, as for removing the seed from the husk... yes you can do that. But make sure to apply some fungicide before sowing. I've noticed that the husk helps protect the ungerminated seed from initial fungus infection. I did run a few experiments on this, and the pre-germinated seeds were more tolerant of fungus compared to non-germinated or early germination seeds.

The method that worked best for me was to wash the seed+husk very cleanly, preferably with unscented hard soap to remove as much pulp as possible. Then soak in a bit of water, remembering to wash and rinse every night for 2-3 nights. By this time, thin husk varieties like Nam Duc Mai would have already popped; thicker husk ones like Apple take nearly 1-2 weeks. Once that is done, you can then remove the seed from the husk, and sow them directly into soil. I do soak then in a mild solution of contact fungicide like Captan or Mancozeb, but I have yet to test on systemic fungicide like Benlate.

Indian scientists develop 'seedless' mango - well, almost

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/...st-9625858.html

Ah hahaha...... ya, India's media have a tendency to sensationalize stories about Indian achievements.

Personally, I am not too keen about a seedless mango. Especially one that has little or no internal fibers, since the fruit still needs something to help it hold its shape. Seedless citrus, grapes etc. have internal fibers, whereas the thick rind of seedless watermeons help ensure it integrity. With a relatively thin-skinned, fiberless, soft fruit like mango, having the seed in place goes a long way towards ensuring the fruit survives post-harvest handling and shipping.

Instead of a "seedless" variety, what breeders and growers might want to work towards is a thin-seeded breed of mangoes, like the Hatcher Mango. Watch this video feed:

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-bea...cher-mango-hill

There are only 4 acres of Hatcher Mangoes in the world, and they are all found in Lantana, Florida (USA).

Here are some pictures of mango fruits I've tested recently:

Apple Mango


Black Gold (Thong Dam)


Cobra Tongue (Gao Lim Krung)


Water Lily (Nam Duc Mai)


Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of Maha Chanok (Rainbow Mango), but it looks very similar to Cobra Tongue, except it is a deep dark orange with pinkish blush on the top (stem) end.

Today, I just bought some rather interesting mangoes. Introducing, the Palmer Mango:


Each of these bad boys weight 500g +/- 50g. The organic fruit shop owner was saying he imported these directly from the Philippines, but as far as I know, it isn't exactly popular over there. Maybe he knows people lar...

Anyway, this is a late season mango, producing fruits in July-September. The variety was originally developed in 1925 by an individual grower in her garden, and nobody knew what its parentage was. But DNA technology has allowed scientist to determine that its original parents were likely from the Haden mango. Haden was a superior mango cultivar, exceptionally good eating quality, and thus the Palmer mango has retained a lot of those wonderful traits, with a number of improvements/differences.

The Palmer fruit tapered at the shoulder (stem) end, unlike Haden which is round/oval all over. The fruit is also far more larger, as it can reach up to 1-2kg or more. In addition, the skin turns fully red/purple, before gradually becoming a yellow-red. Though it can't be seen in my poorly taken photos, the fruit on the left is reddish yellow, whereas the one of the right is purple-red. It is strongly but pleasantly aromatic, has very little fibers, and the taste is really sweet.

The seed is unfortunately monoembryonic, but my thoughts are that since it was derived from the superior Haden, and most orchards tend to be mono-cultivar in Southeast Asia, the germinated seeds will most possibly turn out to have either Haden, Palmer, or one of the ancestral parents of the two (i.e. Mulgoba and/or Apple).

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Jul 26 2014, 11:38 PM

Doing some research on Jin Huang

Jin Huang = Jing Huang = Golden Queen = Kam Hong = Kam Loong ( literally translate to Golden Dragon)?

I check with my supplier he only have Kam Loong from Taiwan, He describe the fruit as big, up to 1.2 kg, sweet & firberless.

Say, anyway for us to identify the tree, of varieties of mangoes?

Key lime = Limau nipis = Kat (Chinese) that use to make juice?

Limau Kapa = key lime?

The more I check, the more confuse i get

Ahahaha.... yea, the local names for them are very confusing. I myself can't differentiate sometimes! Only after looking at the fruits personally, then only I will know.

Limau nipis is normally used to describe Key Lime, but it is not the Kat used to make juice. That one is limau kasturi, aka Calamondin/Calamansi. Some people do refer to calamansi as limau nipis.

In addition, there are distinctions between the closely related, but vastly different, Persian Lime. It too is called limau nipis, but differs from Key Lime in being seedless, 3-4 times larger, and recognizably more bitter and sour in taste.

I have not heard of the term limau kapa before... so can't help you there, unfortunately.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Jul 27 2014, 10:05 PM

Mmmm.... could be the same. Often the names changes in order make the crop more marketable. Like red tilapia was once marketed as Cherry Snapper at a time when there was a lot of stigma against eating the fish. Now that tilapia is so well received, most just call it as it should be... tilapia. Incidentally, I've found a fresh produce seller in Sekincan (Selangor) selling Kam Loong mangoes. They look exactly like Nam Duc Mai.

As far as I know, Jin Huang marketed by Taiwan Agri Board is a fixed, trademarked name. But if it is anything like the ones being sold at Tesco, then it is NOT the Taiwanese Jin Huang, but actually Nam Duc Mai from Thailand, or elsewhere like Hainan Island. Refer to this visual link: http://anazra.blogspot.com/2009/06/golden-dragon-mango.html

The Taiwanese Jin Huang mango is as shown in this link:
http://www.chinasuppliers.jqw.com/sp/2011/...show-85302.html

Also read this link:
http://kcginfo.kcg.gov.tw/Publish_Content....apt=6856&sort=1

The most noticeable difference is the pink blush on the shoulder of the fruit, as well as the lack of white dots all over. Jin Huang typically have a very clean, golden-yellow peel which contrasts with Nam Duc Mai's greenish yellow peel with pearl spots.


I want to point out that if you are wondering why Jin Huang and Nam Duc Mai look so similar, it is because Jin Huang is rumored to be an improved version of Nam Duc Mai. The story goes that the Jin Huang mango was originally selected from a chance seedling of a Nam Doc Mai fruit by the owner, which he tested extensively, and then later grafted onto multiple trees for mass production. He later entered the fruit into a local mango competition, and it beat every other mango produced by Taiwanese growers. In fact, it was so damn good the Japanese were the first to import huge quantities of it into their country, which then spurred other Taiwanese growers to start grafting the Jin Huang onto their own trees.

Even today, there is an annual competition for the best Jin Huang strain in Taiwan. The winning strain then goes on to become the next generation of budwood. It is possible that the runner-ups, denied of such honor, decide to sell grafts of their materials anyway, just not naming them as Jin Huang but something similar. Maybe some decided to call them Kam Loong?

As for identifying mangoes based on tree appearance, it isn't always so easy.... There are sufficient differences between non-hybrids, but most new commercial varieties are either recent hybrids, or improved strains that are too closely related that morphological comparison is not sufficient to determine pedigree anymore.

However, as an interest, the same standards used to differentiate durian trees in Malaysia are also applicable to mangoes. The canopy formation, branch formation, leaf patten and length, petiole length, new leaf flushing coloration, and flower structure, pattern and coloration are all helpful indicators. Fruiting habit (i.e. when it fruits) is not particularly helpful, since flowering and fruit set are largely shaped by external influences like water stress, relative humidity etc.

Sorry wrong typo it's Limau Kapas.