personal opinion,5k reduction seems a bit hard to them. max reduction maybe 3k,or maybe the price will stick at tentative. it still depend on big boss decission though.

cuz they need also to count next saga price,so it wont overlapping.

but 3k price reduction seems better,but that will put iriz to be seems overpriced,top spec. unless they planned to reduce iriz price.

well,just personal opinion. actually,im a bit puzzle on how they will price persona agaisnt iriz n new saga. but if they want to make it a big hit,it need some price reduction.

interm of wheelbase and width,its almost the same,so,interior dimension almost the same,but new design of interior(old vs new persona) gives new persona feels bigger inside.

new b segment already equal to old c segment. downgrading segment doesnt mean compromise the space. eventhough the length is shorter,but when speaking of interior volume,basically looking at wheelbase and how cleaverly its being design.

like bezza,eventhough the wheelbase is far shorter,but by playing with seats and dash design,they can create big interior and spacious boot.

2.5 box design is actually favouritely being use when converting hatch to sedan,and also b segment car cuz it saves on cost cuz no rework on front end chasis structure,especially when things already good in crash rating. redesign new front end will cost more. so,better to spend more money on something else.

being a hatch based sedan which normally hatch has bulbous front,so not to make and awkward transition,rear end also will follow suit.

some prefer 3 box normal sedan design,like new saga. eventhough old saga is based in savvy,but due to campro engine cant fit in savvy front end,it has to redesign. so,it got a normal 3 box design. eventhough,new saga seems a bit bigger than new persona,but it certainly not.

well,having to come out 3 cars n 1 mpv in 1 year, proton need to be really carefull in spending some money in rnd cost.

eventhough i wish that they just come out with 1 new sedan,but they need to replace n rearrange the product position,plus bom cost is higher in persona,so cant replace saga with saga price.

even new saga will share some parts with prev proton which isnt that bad either.

i heard that in test unit saga,they use exora n preve steering,which i think the latter will make into production,same as exora head unit,which i dont think its a big problem.

the good thing is since more rnd money is spend on refinement,rather than fully in design,new saga also will get an improve on refinement.

quality is as it is in the segment they enter,but i just hope that they consistent in it. i believe the consistency in quality is the main problem previously. some are good,some are bad.

but of course,its not perfect products. but i do like the new direction, focus on what matter most.

eventhough its subjectives,but i think new saga dont look as cheap as it supposed to be as usual,proton.,inside and out. That is the thing that makes toyota a house hold name. Cheap,doesnt mean need to look cheap,n drive like a cheap car.

i hope they still continue to follow this new direction eventhough the market now isnt that encouraging and challenging.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 16 2016, 04:31 PM

there are some changes on the chasis,including seats,to make it better,but since my close source is pretty tight lips on that matter(i mean aseancap score),so i cant comment on which score did they managed to obtain. if no modification made,even with esc,new saga wont score 4 star aseancap,still 3 star.

but earlier,he mentioned all new persona n saga objectives in crash test is to perform as highest as possible.

let us wait for for official. But i do agree if 4 star rate,its not really good to proton,eventhough in our market,still high percentage dont care on ncap rating,but mostly look at fc in the brochure. Awareness is increase,but in slow rate.

But those catamaran like roof top,they mentioned to increase aerodynamic of the saga, help a bit in cruising fc. Hopefully its really as functional as it intended to be. eventhough many who actually driven n saw it mentioned they are really pleased with the new saga,but take it as pinch of salt. If your expectation is like current flx,then you might be amazed.

take a spin on new persona,new saga isnt that much differ interm of refinement,except material on persona is much better compare to saga.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 16 2016, 11:05 PM

pretty busy...and my sources also pretty busy with 4 models to launch this year. lots of info coming when the car is ready,if in design phase,many things still incomplete. some info might change.

but nice to hear from you too dares.

according to my source,preve n exora major facelift. imho,preve is badly needed major facelift,but for exora,i think,reengineering the exora old chasis like saga,is a better option cuz they can actually use preve strength since preve chasis/platform is derived from exora chasis/platform. but how major it is,i dont know at the moment.

they can save a lot of rnd cost,and its new,rather than major facelift which basically the same.

eventhough rnd will be higher than new persona(i heard that the rnd cost for new persona is around 150millions),but its better than atleast 500 millions for totally new chasis n platform.

as ive been mentioned,the refinement they focus rite now isnt only for persona alone,it also for any upcoming product.

to match a new transmission isnt just plug n play,it will take some times n increase rnd cost. since the new engine dev is going on,with new trans,so,it will be a waste of rnd money by doing that,and newer trans doesnt mean it will be entirely better cuz since its new,they dont know how customer perceive it. and when new engine is employ,the current engine line might be eol.

from what ive been inform,eventhough with the same 'punch',but now its more cubit cubit,rather than tumbuk tumbuk. the way it response,how it behave,if one never know it was the same unit as iriz,one might think its a newer gbox or new version of 'tumbuk gearbox'.

maybe upcoming new gbox,its not cubit cubit,but more gosok gosok...ha..ha..

a test drive is a must,cuz expectation is totally diff for everyone,if u expect it to drive like proton,then u will feel how improve they r,but if expect higher,in b segment in malaysia,it might be,oklar,oklar.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 18 2016, 01:36 PM

drl is a miss(even if it isnt a regulation in malaysia need for drl), projector n reflector do have a diff,but in this segment,not much diff. led tail light,erm,i think even with bulb,i think its nice,even nicer than any led proton made prev. vw polo or vento tail light kinda.

rear mulilink/independant and disk brake,saving as much cost and weight as possible,but they did improve the braking performance n handling,so,not much diff than original persona n even better.

most of the cost in for me is what matter most. Simple example,the tyre,where the iriz is using sm3 n sm5 for premium,now it use kruizer n assurance for premium,n its not any gajah tunggal anymore.

if u see the indicative price is 47k to 61k,its even cheaper than 1.6 iriz exec as starter,n cheaper than iriz premium,n it has a proper boot.

i have to admit,its hard to beat bezza albeit persona is doesnt mean to beat bezza,same as iriz,it doesnt mean to beat axia,but aiming for myvi,but since as for 2nd car or k car,price does matter,axia not only kill iriz,but also myvi.

if persona beat bezza in sales,i think the proton tops will do a chicken dance...ha..ha..

its hard to make persona as cheap as bezza,as it is based on iriz.

but i think new saga IS interm of price. But sales,depend on how malaysian perceive new persona. if good,then saga will be well.

persona engine is old,yes,thats true. toyota's engines have won many awards,yes,that's true,but just that i dont know whether vios or city engine has won any awards before. maybe i miss it.

its actually a tiny bit better cuz when talking about rnh,not only suspension types taking into account,also rigidity of the chasis(less flexing),absorber n spring damping rate,steering gearing ratio n setup. plus esc do help plus traction control where also involve reduce engine power n braking to give natural handling,compare to most esc in the segment or below use braking only. but if old persona has what it is in new persona,so multilink is better.

good things about multilink,it is easier to be adjusted n tuned cuz its independant,n to find out balanced between handling n comfort is easier. for torsion beam,since its fix, if too too much focus to be sharp handling,normally it will become too stiff,so,take out comfort.

but if talking about comfort especially bad road,multilink is the best for common cars.

the cons,it is heavier,cost more.

preve is better in handling,but the tyres provide arent really good. preve esc is only apply for brakes,not engine n brakes. plus preve iafm is phasing out. only cfe is available.

preve is a class above. what ive been told,persona bom(bill of materials) cost ratio is higher than preve which means material used is higher than what proton need to spend for their car(the ratio,not total bom cost cuz if total bom cost,of course preve is higher).

refinement is much much better than preve. if u want to buy preve,my personal advice,wait for the facelift. even the ecu use in campro vvt is diff from iafm n cfe. it is better.

all the refinement that has been done by rnd will be slowly slip into any proton line in the future.

in rnh engineer eyes,is totally diff than what common user perspective. thats why iriz r3(race spec) can compete with suprima n preve r3(race spec) in handling department,even with just being torsion beam.

for user or consumer,u need to drive it to know whether it suits your preference.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 26 2016, 11:24 PM

maybe next year cuz at the moment,the only info i can get is next year mostly facelift,preve,exora n iriz mc1.

regarding the footwell ruptured,original iriz was design to streghten up following the how vw polo(main benchmark for iriz n persona was polo,thats why the seats also following up polo design interm of comfort,rnh n etc,but they missed on refinement in iriz) was constructed and reinforced. while preve/suprima has crossmember lower dash reinforced using hpf, iriz use the same method as polo(strategic point) using hpf subframe crossmember rear reinforcement(before footwell) and subrame crossmember floor upper(near front wheel arch).

according to my source it suppossed to have enough strength to withstand the impact eventhough not as good as preve/suprima. He said that he would check with related department.

on the other hand,i know its not really a big matter, normally in proton cars,they used hard plastics on gear lever,handbrake,n super cheap button.

for persona,u will notice that most switch gears n buttons has been revised,whether with diff materials or diff feels to it.

gear lever n handbrake in persona used soft plastics,unlike typical hard plastics for proton. the a/c dials n button a a bit better feels when in used,a bit rubbery than loosen feels in iriz,eventhough it looks a bit cheapo,same as iriz.

and many also dont realise that eventhough the rear light missing the led or even lightbars(ccfl),but they managed to make it look like light bars even with conventional bulb. its not a new thing,but its new for proton,n it does make it looks more expensive than the led tail lamp used by proton before.

yup,only iriz n persona using engine n brake esc/tc.

the indicator is on if you r driving economically,hence the name assist.

development,cost(at development of preve/suprima) n ecu lomitation. new ecu in campro nfe is 32bits bosch motronic ems, while cfe n iafm+ using 32bits easyu by continental.

not related directly to proton,just lucky enough to have some sos kicap inside proton especially on rnd dept. for me,this is the only thing that is a success of proton cuz they have achieved their objectives,to produce world class auto engineers. many of them already flock away,getting better offer from reputable companies.

eventhough preve isnt really a success,but in rnd,it is an eye opener n many engineers from preve/suprima project has been offered to work in big company. Example one female crash engineer which work for preve/suprima project,now has been working for volvo as crash engineer.

thats why i believe if budget/man powers arent the main concern,those in rnd can do wonders.

i already mentioned earlier,if compare with other japs in engine noise,it just ok ok lar cuz japs engine by nature is already low noise even wirhout insulation,but if compare to iriz which used same engine n gearbox,its far improved. what is being written by auto journo is when they are comparing with its based product,iriz.

campro vvt + punch cvt is pretty loud,as if compare to campro + old 4at. so,for me,they did a commendable job compare to iriz. overall nvh compare to iriz is a notch higher.

on the response,as u mentioned,it bring back ur prev flx se response,if u noticed,flx se is more or less 100kg lighter than persona,to make the same power/torque output engine albeit diff mechanism plus same cvt unit(improved version as in iriz) to have same responsive feels in a heavier car,it isnt something that easy to do within the budget given for rnd cuz new engine is on progress. they also need to be carefull in calibrating cuz in already known not super efficient engine,make it too much responsive might hurt the fc as well.

all in all,a good effort atleast for me. i dont know whether mr ogawa san manage to further continue enhanced the quality,but he did managed to delay persona n saga which supposed to launch in april when he came in february cuz he felt it still not ready during that time as being inform by my rnd sources.

They already knew perodua will cut the sales since it will be launch earlier,n since p2 image is good,it will definitely take the sale away.

But atleast,relasing a polish product is better than non polish one. As i can see,persona launch has less nightmares compare to previous product cuz less thread on show room imperfections cars,most of the threads are critisizing on rims,even spare tyres.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 30 2016, 10:32 PM

no,i dont get you wrong,i did understand completely,thats why even before you test drive,already mentioned if agaisnt japs,it just ok ok lar on nvh.,but if prtn or iriz,u will notice the improvement(its not that they dont put much effort on engine noise,they do put more even than other competitors,but since campro and punch cvt are noisy in nature,what to do,put it even more insulation,will increase bom cost lor,but they did play here n there within the budget given for nvh by the management).

mr ogawa san,the ex nissan man,new head of products n qualities. ,being appointed in feb this year.

just my personal opinion,i think proton has apppinted a suitable man for the position this time around compared to dr karl. No disrespecting dr karl,it just that his area of expertise is more on up market products without too much limits in budget, but mr ogawa san,is more familiar with what is the market that proton is in. just hopefully,lesser hanky panky :-). but based on less instrussion as in iriz in rnd especially design(as u can see how much diff iriz from preve even suprima),so i think it shud be ok.

but dr karl did have improved prtn in technological wise.

i believe u still with fiesta rite, but of course,i still remembered your flx se cuz u r with ur flx se when i started to know you here. I hope it doesnt offend you in any way.

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 30 2016, 11:39 PM

i hear that some has started to complaint on mr ogawa san,since he is a bit strict in approve anything. malaysian,what to do. just hope that top management will not interfere too much with his work.

yup,one of the reason why persona n saga delayed is due to him,but not on perdana. perdana is somebody else causing the delay(not related to technical at all).

This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 31 2016, 01:09 AM

saga doesnt have too much competitor in malaysia,just recently added bezza. prev attrage,before attrage,none. but based on malaysians view,i believe they will compare it to a n b segment cars.