Hi all

I have been offered an option for two properties:

1) Freehold, 4 bedroom, 1800sqft
2) Leasehold (99 years remaining), 4 bedroom, 2300sqft

Both are the same price, both in the same location (around 2min drive between them), similar facilities but option 2 is 1 year older (both are new and completed this year and last year)

At what point, in your guys opinion, is the crossing point where it makes leasehold more worth it?

I have always been against leasehold and opt for freehold, because of the sale price in future and also because the demand will be a lot lower when I come to sell.

This is for own stay, not for investment and I expect to stay there around 5-10 years

My question is that the RM/sqft for the Leasehold is a lot lower and the space is a lot bigger for the same price, but the downside is it is leasehold. Does the cheaper RM/sqft and bigger space make it worthwhile to go for leasehold with all the problems it has?

You will have problem to get prospect buyer for leased expire less than 40 yrs. Bank may not give loan. Cash buyer will think twice b4 place the booking.

after 10-20 years you want to sell, the leasehold will be 89-79 years remaining while the freehold still the same.. if you are buyer at that time, which u are prefer?

Same price, same location. Freehold anytime.

If this is a newly built condo...rest assure that the lease wont be 99 yrs...it will be 99 yrs minus the building time.

Lishold property in general is 20% cheaper than fh...u can tell by the lower psf.

In a place where there are fh and lh...lh will loose out...

But for condo projects...fh or lh makes little impact bcos after 70/80 yrs the condo will be condamned anywhere...but if u intend to sell with lease period of 80odds years...its still doable and make sure the location is 'wong enuf'.

TS already said BU of respective properties not same leh..... If same sure no more dilemma lor....

Bean speaks truth.

In case of you're unemployed or unable to continue paying housing installment, when you intend to sell the house, leasehold unit will be more difficult to sell and expected lower price than freehold - meaning less profit.

all can believe bean's facts, he is freehold/lishold expert.

I would never ever buy lishold landed for own stay.....

in Selangor if leasehold, event it is non bumi status, after bumi purchase it.. it will automatically become bumi status after that.. leasehold not good to bumi investors in Selangor..

Well that's you lol.

But many many tan sri spent millions on a garbage LH land in Tropicana. Oh well.. setia alam? Fkin joke.

If u have few millions dumping on lh land...its yr choice loh

I dun have few millions...therefore cant afford to make the mistake.

Joke is on you.

Guess you don't know how well some LH condos appreciated.

Appreciated way better than any setia alam landed which is sought to be Freehold. Lol.

This will be a never ending debate between LH vs FH. But if you happen to find a gem on a LH land pls dispose to me okay? Don't let is miss the boat and that's probably some of the reasons why you don't have your millions.

I dun have millions so do you lah junior auditor...

Hi TS for own stay is obvious choice go for freehold. And freehold land is getting scare in most of part great klang Valley. N some free hold demand a higher price over Lh. Sacrifice on the extra 500 sqft . Is better to plan a head, if some unforseen circumstance

This post has been edited by JXplod: Jul 29 2016, 10:52 AM

Jxplod....dun simple say fh is better leh nanti mtch taruk u kau kau bcos he got two lishold condos leh...and he is millionaire...

Yeah wey... I also don't own anything. Sorry ya.. Junior come here tok kok sing song and meet old losers like you only

And I'm not an auditor.

Chill, Guys. Let's put things back into perspective. This is not a LH vs FH discussion to begin with. TS already said both properties at the same location & same price. The key difference is 1 bigger BU (LH) vs 1 smaller BU (FH).

Two key questions are:
1) At what point, in your guys opinion, is the crossing point where it makes leasehold more worth it?
2) Does the cheaper RM/sqft and bigger space make it worthwhile to go for leasehold with all the problems it has?

TS, the properties that u mentioned r landed or high rise?

hm.... i also have doubt between FH vs LH. Let say government want to acquire the land, FH also can't stop it. If the government has no plan on the land, government will let us to renew.

In term of value, of course FH always better than LH... Meanwhile, you need to consider difficulty to find affordability of potential buyer between FH & LH.

Since you just plan to stay for 5~10 years which means left LH 89~94 years, buyer still able to get loan in this condition.

EXACTLY.

And in terms of value. If you happen to find a gem on a LH land, you should not skip it for a stubborn mentality of sticking only to FH. Condos sitting on Kayu Ara and KD have already showed it success over the years being sitting on a LH land.

Anything above 30 to 40 years(diff banks have diff criteria) for a LH tenor can get up to 90% loan.

This post has been edited by mthc: Jul 29 2016, 11:12 AM

Actually this question is very subjective... is that 500sf mean to you? Do LH 27% cheaper mean good deal to you vs FH?

Or you may need to do some research, find those area nearby have FH + LH and compare their selling price whether the $/sf different is more than 27%

No clear winner, I would go for the one I prefer which best suit for my staying purpose, as said intention is for own stay.

Go on what your wallet, brain and heart tells you, at the end it is yours to judge whether LH or FH worth it or vice-versa.

Everyone here have their own preferences.

assuming for own stay, environment must fit your lifestyle, never mind lh or fh.

Side question to all gurus/daikors/daijers/bosses, any one has a list of freehold KV residential properties (houses, terraces, banjialow, apartments, condos, service suites, or property building) being acquired by Gov? Pls advise the link(if any)? If not, pls spell the projects/ptoperties you can recall..
Thank you very much.

I'm conservative and play safe. 500sqft is not too big to start with and when u familiar with a smaller place u no longer feel it. 1800sqft is not that small. Small difference in size potential big difference in the future. Since location is the same no comparison of LH in a great location because both are. I prefer to look at other details ie assessibilty, feng shui (personal opinion) and if can surrounding neighbours becoz you not only buy a house but also a home.

even if govt wanted to acquire yr fh property, it got to be at arms length transaction, meaning market price lah...
you may not have the right to reject the offer becos the purpose was supposed to be benefit to public at large...at least you are not given up your property chip chip....but that doesn't mean govt cant build a flyover over your house or very close to your house.

on the other hand, on lishold property, govt just need to wait for lease expired nia and you dun get any compensation at all....although klang valley at large still doesn't have many lishold properties that reached 99 years yet.

This post has been edited by BEANCOUNTER: Jul 29 2016, 02:34 PM

Gasing Hill lease been renewed. Ampang Park FH been forced to give up their land for MRT construction.

Like bean said FH > LH anytime in the same location, residential type
It highly depends on your mindset, if you are single and do not have to worry for your descendants. Then it doesnt matter la.
As long as your yield > loan, i see no problem in LH, but bear in mind it depends very much on your tenant quality.

LH is cheaper but take note this is Malaysia not UK or US. The mindset here is different.
and because of that mindset LH depreciates greatly over time

Juz know exist of such law, like this: http://www.theedgeproperty.com.my/content/...cquisition-laws

btw, i am juz small potato, maybe i am wrong.

For own stay, it is better you look at other factors such as facilities, furnishing, management, neighbour and surrounding...etc other than just FH vs LH

The prime consideration is the property itself especially for own stay one.

Get the one better in term of quality, how it is maintained, and make your living life comfortable one, which is invaluable in term monetory.

LH or FH is a secondary issue.

Even 2 properties are adjacent, it can be maintained differently, which determine the value of property especially for highrise whereby the key issue of its value not come from LH or FH, but how it is maintained in a top notch condition.

Actually, what's d problem with LH, really?! If lease is up, just renew it. In pj, that costs only $1000 for another 99 years.
A good property is a good property. LH, FH, wateva hold don't really matter. What matters is how much money are people willing to pay for it. All else can b negotiated.
(If malay rizab land, above comments is void

if it's condo just buy the one you like more.. who willing to stay in 100+ years old condo if not maintained properly?

This post has been edited by teNtiOn: Jul 29 2016, 03:59 PM

anyone know how to calculate LH renew price ? thanks

freehold residential next to/adsjecent to Ampang park also affected?

Any list, pls..

Didn't see any affected freehold properties list from the link. Can enlighten further?

I might be wrong, the rm1000 only applicable for old kampung baru type of leased hold house.

Imagine, what premium to be paid 70 yrs later...?

Many friends and relative around me don't buy leasehold. I myself will hesitate to buy leasehold.

totally agree on this.

If freehold condo come with huge deficit in management account vs top notch maintenance on leasehold condo, i will choose the later one.

http://www.mymrt.com.my/en/ssp/project-info/land-acquisition

Here the list

well, if in doubt expensive one is better
same price but different size is already a guideline

there are plenty of reasons to consider, have to give and take 2 cents

Suggest TS to put up a poll...
Also reveal landed or highrise
:thumbsup:

This post has been edited by Jagalat: Jul 29 2016, 04:36 PM

Easy lar.. fh and lh, if by comparison, after stay for 5-10yrs, and dun want to sell and want to rent out.. then base on psf rental let say rm2 like this lh can rent higher rate..

If good renting area.. lh is more on advantage coz buy cheaper, and I think rental doesn't care if it's lh or fh right? So u know what I mean? Lh are more advantage on this.. and if same location same, same BU, same features, the different is price and lh or fh, do u think rental will makes different? Like fh getting higher rental and lh getting lower rental? No right?

So my POI is, if future rental purpose lh still more advantage... coz lh definitely cheaper than fh, so u have more cost saving while rent out same as fh price..

Perhaps just let your wife to choose... so in future she don't "mengamuk"... lol...

But the price appreciation for freehold will be higher and the leasehold near to balance 50 below value is actually depreciate.

Price appreciation level is about the property location or the property is in demand or not.

A FH strata properties which is poorly maintained, management has no money due to poor maintenance fee collection, its condition will deteoriate quickly.
This kind of property won't fetch good valuation one.

Compared to a LH which is maintained in tip top condition, you don't need to guess which can fetch better value or having better price appreciation.

The appreciation in value is not solely on FH or LH.

Somemore most residential property has more than 50-70 years lease, and I will be no longer exist even the lease just being running down half of it.

Yes, you don't need to second guess everyone prefer FH, but at the same time, be more objective about LH as well.
As one may miss good opportunity to get good property (especially for own stay), just because of it is LH that already shy away from it.

As long as it is a "good" property, FH or LH is not that important.

If fh appreciate means lh rental appreciate also mah.. Let say u buy at fh 400k, and u rent out 2k, then u sell to other ppl at 600k, then the other ppl if rent out 2k rugi lor.. Then he will rent out 2.8k, and as a lh property holder can follow trend increase to 2.8k, and last time this lh property buy at the price of 320k only.. So whose in long term advantage leh? Rental play, does it matter if the lease left how many years?

I'm pretty sure u wrong. It's statewide. At least that's wat khalid ibrahim said, before he got kajang-moved...

Many malaysians speak like uneducated peasants. Pls dont listen to them. "LH no good lah." "Why ar?" "Becos LH mah!" "Oh ya hor"... Do u see d cycle of stupid reasoning ??!

All your points make sense except "I no longer exist and so I dun care" argument. Surely, you are still concerned about the realisable value of the assets before you die. If u don't care, your heirs will care, and you will also want to pass down a property of higher value to them. Not only that, u do not know when u going to die, but the value of the property throughout your life time determines your net worth. Note: I am not arguing that FH definitely better than LH. It all depends on whether the discount is high enough to freehold and the potential of the area.

Depends...

I'm upgrading right now planning for the "stay until old" kinda house...

So lease hold or freehold no difference to me.. 99 years my daughter also gone liao... who cares if no value later.. let my grandkids (if any) worry about it

I hope you are right.

I'm v rarely wrong.

Just share my friend's view.
By end of the day. V all just need 2'×6' land. The value to properties are meaningless. Kids should be thankful if v left something for them. The kids should earn themself. V don't own anything for them.
I buy the idea.

Don't talk about the kids first. Talk about ourselves. Even if you do not plan to leave anything for the kids, isn't it better if the property is freehold and the value appreciates instead of going to zero. You never know. You might not want to stay there forever. With freehold properties, you can sell and move anywhere else you like. With leasehold, you can also sell but no value. Which is better? I prefer preservation of capital.

An article wrote back in 2002 which still make sense subject to one willing to open up their mind.
http://www.hba.org.my/news/2002/1102/leasehold_fallacy.htm

To me personally FH vs LH is not really in my mind if I want to shop for a property. As we always say - location, location, location. But no one will entirely forgo the consideration of how many years left in the lease. No one of sane mind will not consider that.

If one gets to know the lease is only left with 10-20 years, or even 30-40 years; the next question to ask is, is the community already banding up to go for renewal of the lease.

Because most of the time we are only discussing about new project where most likely the lease is still fairly new - maybe 10 years into the entire tenure perhaps; so don't really care about whether it is lease of free.


To answer TS queries; if you want, you can go and try find out why for the different B/U - prices are similar. Who are the developers? Any difference in amenities etc...

This post has been edited by b00n: Jul 29 2016, 06:51 PM

Whether there are any precedence or not, am not sure. However when the law provides the avenue; you cannot say it will never happen.

Quoted from the below source which also contains the logical diff/pros and cons of FH vs LH
http://realproperty.my/freehold-vs-leasehold-properties


Article published by a solicitor firm on "Compulsory Land Acquisition in Malaysia, Compensation and Disputes"
Basically highlights the law does allow acquisition of Free Hold property by the government.
http://www.mahwengkwai.com/compulsory-land...ation-disputes/

This post has been edited by b00n: Jul 29 2016, 07:03 PM

more recent article wrote on FH vs LH by imoney:
https://www.imoney.my/articles/freehold-vs-...is-a-better-buy

Another interesting read.

I attended the national land code classes as it's mandatory for my work purposes and it opened up my thoughts to FH vs LH. I was a FH supporter until that 2 months class opened up my view to LH too. But then again many here think they are all that. An investor doesn't care if it's FH or LH as long as that prop makes money. 99 years lease and the fella thinks he can live so long to bring his prop to grave with him. Seriously big time joker.

This post has been edited by mthc: Jul 29 2016, 07:02 PM

The counter argument is if the Lease is left with short tenor like my example.

In LH term how low is consider low? And what is the minimum low to easily discard? 35/40yrs of least balance? Are there any property which having 35/40 lease and are selling like half of their purchase price?

This I agree. Our responsibility ends when we hv imparted enough moral, spiritual &, yes, monetary "assets" to our kids for them to continue on their own. This strengthens d race as well. Spoonfeeding leads to destruction.

If you see 35 to 40 years remaining lease for residential theb you go buy lor. A smart investor will usually dispose theirs around 80 to 85 years lease remaining.

Agree.

From all the text, there is no indication it never happened. On contrary, to go one step further, it is best to identify the pattern or trend of the acquired freehold properties.

Hahaha... u have points. I respect ur view.

But in real life, both FH and LH can make money. Just the knowledge and skills make the different.

Nothing wrong to buy property with remaining 35-40 yrs leased. Some gems out there. Only smart investor knows how to spot it and grap it.

Wah sifu

Wow, didnt expect such a big discussion. Hold on - will try to do a mass reply to all those who asked questions

Its same anywhere - you buy, the neighbour might move out and a new one comes in who is bad. So this isnt really a consideration for me

Its 99 yr lease, and we plan to leave way before 40 yrs left

Same price, same location but not same size - thats why I ask the question. Does the bigger space make people move towards the LH

Confirmed 99 year lease as its currently 74years and they will give strata title for 99 years (submitted already) and confirmed with department

Both high rise

500 square feet is not huge, but in context its a 33% increase. I'm a Quantity Surveyor by background and now work in an accounting firm - so I do these kind of benchmarks out of habit

Good point, and agreed to some extent


Because msot people don't think like that. Like 75% of people I speak to (and a few on here) all only want freehold. So when I come to sell in 10 years time, do I have a demand for my condo? Has the price not inflated in the same level as the others around? So I have to sell at a lower price, to a lesser demand market and have to negotiate even further.

Thats my question, does the extra space make up for these problems....

Renew the lease at RM1,000 but cannot sell. Only can stay there.

so what is the conclusion ? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆🐴😂😂😂😂😂

Agree with this - thats why I am asking. She is against LH, but I look at RM/sqft and can't understand why she want to pay same price for less space....

Conclusion is as the person above said... in end I am sure wife will choose. What say do I have? I am only paying the deposit and monthly payments...

500sq is not a large space for naked eyes to feel. It ccould be just an extra bedroom or larger balcony a bit bigger in living and kitchen.

After 10yrs...the maintenance of building and access play more important part.

Beside with lease of 90yrs or sloght lower wont do any harm to fh or lh.

Thats why o said earlier if die die must buy lh..make sure there is demand in that area and the area is poised to be "ong".

Thats why i am against lh property in si beh far places bcos it takes times to develope.

Listen to wifey will get u fart dart...

What if TS spells the project names then more feedback will be expected...lol...

Just take mont kiara for example...mostly freehold but there are pocket of lishold...

Compare the prices btw fh n lh there...

Or klcc area...

spoiler alert!!!

LOL..it's already at "post-credit scene" after TS mass replied.....time to reveal more for the sequel....

Please let us know which condo is lishold in MK.

Dutamas is not MK

I won't give away the names as a) unfair to owner and b) you might steal the condo away from me

I can say both are high rise, low/medium density in Kuchai Lama and Taman Desa area

Tmn Desa.

Since TS mentioned about wife factor, perhaps some of the potential scenarios to assess in future ...

S1) Bought LH, if there is any unplesent neighbors / neighborhood activities / property matter happens in future, will she complain "l have already told you not to buy this property. We would have been better if staying at the FH one"?
Weightage is higher if she contributes to the purchase.

S2) Bought FH, if there is any unplesent neighbors / neighborhood activities / property matter happens in future, you reserve the right to turn the table and say "We would have been better if staying at the LH one". (You have the future arguement advantage)
She has to keep silent about this argument.


Human side to consider, wife in general, will consider sense of secured(price appreciation) and a purchase worth every ringgit spent for family.
(Not promoting/hinting anything but spend some time to discuss with her)

P/S..no show her this post.
If l were you, I will choose the FH...

no problem lah even leasehold. im a land surveyor by profession, always can renew the lease by paying some premium.

Wife always win...end of story.

wife will always find something else to nag, if not about properties.

Wan4..its not about renewal of lease. I dun think anyone here will live til renewal of lease...be it at the end of 99 yrs or 20 years left.
its more to do with ease of selling should one moves forward in life and the perception of lishold over freehold. End of day, perception of human win over the actual laws itself bcos you cant educate your potential buyers.

This is a question or a statement? Without considering anything else just pick Tmn Desa?

I thought this statements were from a very wise person... then i read this:
She has to keep silent about this argument.

Every husband know this is literally impossible



This is a great reply and is the exact reason I ask the question. I can't see any issue with LH, but people like my wife (and others on here) do - so it affects my decision as I worry abotu re-sale in 5-10 years

LOL...at least a moment to have a wife paused a moment (making use this moment to tell her the property was purchased in line with her wish)...doesn't hint will win...
Anyway, no intention to generate further scenario for your assessment....good luck to your decision.

Again it become FH camp vs LH camp.
still waiting for TS to give more info....

What additional info do you need?

in sepang near klia, got ioi and glomac project, ioi is f/h selling about rm660k+, glomac is l/h selling about rm500k+, maybe can compare in this way, another area to compare is bandar kinrara which is f/h vs damai utama which is l/h, both next to each other

Hi there, do check out this article that compares between freehold and leasehold. Both do have their pros and cons, this article streamlined down the one that will suit you, https://blog.carousell.com/property/freehol...hold-singapore/.