Hi Lowyat!

Just seeking your thoughts/opinion on this. I think until kepala pening.

I am currently in my final year of degree in Mechanical Engineering. My question is to further my studies to PhD or not?

My FYP supervisor has been encouraging me to continue doing my PhD under him.
My family is in a financially tight situation. Thus, I have never really considered furthering since I have set my mind on getting a job to support my family when I started of my degree studies. However, recently after discussing with some of my peers and reading here and there, I am pretty undecided now.

I have not started on FYP yet but have previously worked with him on some research works on a similar topic to my FYP. Plans have been made to publish a paper based on my FYP works. My supervisor suggest that I continue working on this project until PhD level. The uni allows to skip over Master program and go straight to PhD. He suggest to take on a scholarship having learnt my situation. I am generally okay and comfortable working with my supervisor. Having been generally well versed and experienced in this topic, would it be a waste to not complete it till PhD level? I am interested in research but its not a die-die must thing.

The stipend provided by the scholarship won't be much. Let's say we managed to pull through till completion and get a job. There will be loss of earnings in that time of study. Is it worth it? On the other hand, if the stipend is not enough for us to survive, should I just wave goodbye or what alternatives/options do I have if I insist to further?

Then comes the question of to do Masters or PhD. Some ppl say that doing a PhD will make you overqualified for the job, so stop at Masters. But opportunity don't come your way twice, if I can settle everything now, why not?

Currently my GPA is 3.1, and if all goes well, I will graduate with First Class Honours (a pretty messed up story on how this can happen haha). But due to my low GPA, I was wondering if it might affect my chance to get a good job. Most top companies require like a minimum of GPA 3.50 to even qualify for an interview. So maybe with a higher qualification I can cover up my bad past? Well, I have only myself to blame for the mediocre GPA, I know I could have done so much better but there is nothing I can do now to fix it. So instead of rushing into the industry and getting a meh job, maybe this might give me a better second chance. Idk can someone tell me am I getting this all wrong/right?

Another thing is that some of my peers are of the opinion that having a degree is too common nowadays. Most of my peers who qualify academically and financially are looking to pursue a Masters/Phd. So if without this almighty qualification, would I be at a disadvantage in the future when my peers enter at a higher salary grade and get promotions jumping right above me. One possible solution is maybe when the need comes in the future then only do I pursue it. But this becomes a complicated issue of maybe having to do it part-time or maybe sabbatical leave.

The age factor. I will be 24 when I graduate with my degree. Adding another four years plus for PhD, I will be 28 omg!! This is so old to enter the industry as a fresh graduate.

Anything else I should think of/consider? Am I overthinking stuff? Accept any suggestions/comments/criticisms etc.
Thank you in advance.

currently doing masters in research at local uni.. was having a good and stable job before suddenly decide to quit. first, ask your self whether you like to study or not. from what I've seen so far, PhD isnt something easy (but dont take it the wrong way, as postgraduate myself, I like people who wanted to further their study, and I am totally encourage it). second, will your family support your decision.. it's important. talk to your family, it's your future. after you get your PhD, provided you have good track record, you still can get into anywhere, or even becoming a lecturer. some japanese company or singapore company do take PhD graduates (there are career fair here in my uni. about the job with PhD qualification, you can probably ask around how many PhD graduate in mechanical engineering who do not have a job.. from what i know in my uni, everyone gets a job. Third, how far can your topic go.. I mean, some topic looks promising, but people do stuck middle way.. if your SV is expert in the area, then it's probably going to be fine. Fourth, are your willpower strong enough and are you commited. with scholarship, you will look like a very poor people. other friend already have good car house etc, and you are "a student". some people do get discourage by it. financial wise, you need to plan wisely.

FYI, two of my seniors (they are younger than me in terms of age) already graduated last year. one in control engineering and one is in mechanical engineering(doing something about gas and water combination). they are both fast track students (meaning do not have master), both of them graduated on time (3 years). they both are now lecturer.

From what you have described, I would exhort you to work instead of furthering.

In most cases furthering till PhD is more of a passion rather than money. I've seen many giving up PhD because of money.

Can you convince your family? Are you dedicated enough? Ask yourself before you commit. Since you are an Engineer, you don't really need a PhD. Get yourself an IR instead.

Research comes with alot of failures, you have to be really adamant and ardent to overcome those failures. In Malaysia most people would pursue their PhD just for the fame and not knowing what they want. Many ended up with facile research. Research is about progressing not repeating. And in most cases research in Malaysia are repetitive rather than innovative.

In summary if you are not willing to commit don't take up a PhD. PhD is not for fame nor money, it's about research to contribute to the society. Knowing what you want will dictate your future.

From your questions, it seems that money is on the foremost of your mind. Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone comes from a privileged family.

Yes, taking a PhD will definitely result in loss of opportunity in terms of earning money. If you're going to continue on in Malaysia, you'll lose out on 4 years of salary, EPF, and other perks.

However, it'll also open some doors for you:
1. Option to become a lecturer
2. More interesting work opportunities
3. A pay packet at around your friends' when you graduate. You'll just lose those 4 years of EPF, but you come out at parity with them except for maybe the top performers.

Cons:
1. Harder to publish in top journals from Malaysia. Getting better now.
2. Sunk cost. If you've put in effort, and you still can't finish in the given time frame what do you do? You find it harder to just jump out halfway through.
3. Importance of your work. What's the impact?


What you can do to alleviate these money problems if you do decide to pursue your PhD:
1. Tuition. Think this is common. Some lecturers continue with this way after their PhD. Earning more than their salary.
2. Start your company. Think in Malaysia PhD students aren't really overloaded. Can use your time to take in freelance work and starting your own company. I have a friend who's doing that. Employs 20-30 people now. Need to find good partners to help you run it when you're busy.

Doing PhD in Malaysia maybe more lucrative in Malaysia compared to overseas depending on your initiative and field.

It just opens some doors for you, you don't have to go through them if you don't want to.

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Will consider what is shared into my decision.

This post has been edited by clikclak: Jul 24 2016, 04:22 PM

So whats you decision now? to continue or not to?

Trust me, there is no such thing that over qualify to the job. Only how much of salary that you feel reasonable to be accept.

If you insist to support your family. You have 2 option now,
1) Study PHD in part time while working in full-time.
(This is what i currently do )
2) Focus in working.

Nowadays in this market, certification is just the ticket to entry job, it does not mean a higher qualification equal to higher salary & chance. Working experience is the key to further your career.

If you spend your 4 year full time in PHD, i rather you to get 4 years working experience while you are young. You might become a manager if you working tough enough.

Frankly, what do you expect your job designation that the company offer to a PHD student with no working experience ?

Quick and simple.

u want to pursue PHD in local uni or overseas ?

Hey,

Before you start doing PhD, ask yourself whether you do it for the sake of knowledge (research) or for the sake of 'Dr' title. Beware that PhD study can take up to 4 years to finish depending on how hardworking or determined you are in research. And if you don't like to read and write academically, then forget about pursuing PhD because your PhD life will be so difficult. Remember that most employers nowadays tend to look at working experience rather than PhD degree. And don't worry much about CGPA. I don't think it matters today when you apply for job especially in Malaysia. My CGPA was higher than 3.8 and most of the employers rejected me for someone with so-so CGPA because they were afraid to take me to work with them as they deem I am too overqualified. So I was unemployed for more than 8 months after my graduation.

There would be high probability you would end up as a university lecturer but more intelligent.

Malaysian employers value working experience.

The environment might change when you graduate(provided you graduate) due to influx of funds to venture capitals in Kuala Lumpur : but there is no absolute guarantee.
You might be able to land a job a researcher: but there is no absolute guarantee.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: Aug 14 2017, 02:27 AM

Personally, I have decided to take PhD in Biology in UPM. Before that, I was reciprocating between UPM and China (which i have secured a scholarship, but the University is less known). Due to my family situation that shall prefer me to develop career locally rather than abroad, and also I have observe Chinese PhD do not necessarily have advantage outside China. So I stayed and will be enrolled into UPM soon.

I wonder if it is possible for me to have a chance to take a postdoc in some advanced countries such as Japan, Korea etc in future as local graduate.

If u want to further phd. Better become lecturer since phd involved extensive research and university also usually want not just lecturer. But also researcher to improve their rankings.

why need t think a lot?

follow ur will. if u think can handle, why not

Here is my two bits

Do a PhD if you want to do research.

Do a PhD only if you are fully funded. Do not do a PhD if you are not funded and have to pay out of pocket. If you have partial funding it up to you do decide. Yes, PhD programs provide training and education but labs run on PhD students. So, you don't want to pay for the "honor" of being a lab worker. You want to be paid. All you ideas belong to the lab and university.

Most jobs in a company do not require skills in research. The technology is known, you just use it. You are not required to develop new technology or make new discoveries. At most you will take a new technology and mass produce it. Or make a known technology 1% more efficient. Experience is more important in a company.

PhD is one of those experiences that will tell you who you truly are. You learn something about yourself, how you handle constant pressure, failure, anger, success, fear, anxiety and friendly type competition and night of the long knives type competition. It can become a bit much. Remember, you can reach out for help. Your PI is there. If not, your advisor, if not the program coordinator, if not university counselor. Do not let your project fall behind. Part of the learning process is project management ie learning to recognize that your Titanic has or is in danger of hitting an iceberg and you need help now. Do not cover up mistakes. Do not lie. Do not commit suicide (yes, suicide does happen).


PhD are hard. Mentally and physically. Do a PhD when you are young. Once you are 40+ forget it. You don't have the energy to do it anymore. It is like joining the army. Once you are 40+, you simply cannot keep up with an 18 or 20 year old.


You can change project, you can change advisor, but you must complete the program. Failure rate for a PhD program is about 30% nationwide in the UK. But if you must fail a Phd program, try to fail within the first year.

PhD is not for everyone. You must like being wrong 99% of the time. Confused 30% of the time. You can be both wrong and confused. Conditions not mutually exclusive. This is a state that has caused people to quit a PhD. Love repeats. Love tweaking stuff.


PhD does translate into more money. But those jobs are in developed nations. However PhD will help you get those jobs if PhD comes from well known university. Unfortunately you are not the only person in your program, so you have competition. So your PhD project is important. It can literally make you a world expert, possibly THE WORLD expert in sub field X. If you are very good, you would have picked a PhD in a sub-field that is of interest to companies (or governments). Picking a good PhD project is like picking good stock. Some of it is understanding what companies want, and some of it is luck.

LOL. i can only suggest ANYONE who is intending to pursue a PhD refer to the above. I can only 101% agree to what was being stated.

Add-on: if u die die must do a PhD, the most CRITICAL part is to select your supervisor wisely. I cannot stress this enough. This is the most important aspect of your phd journey. Once you step into the wrong boat, Good luck with the frustration. It will completely change your outlook (for worse). I have seen a lot of real life examples. Those who have a successful PhD in general are hardworking individual who happen to step into a very productive lab, with a very excellent support system from the supervisor.

I will have to say, if you are unsure about doing a PhD, you shouldn't do a PhD. You have to be certain with what you want to do with a PhD before you start. It is going to be a significant sacrifice, and it really takes a lot of mental fortitude and requires emotional support to do a PhD.

From how you describe your situation, I would say, no, you shouldn't do a PhD. I can't see a good motivation for that. You don't have to worry too much about your GPA, it may cause some employers to skip your CV when you apply for jobs, but it is your ability to carry yourself during interviews that would be more of a determining factor of whether or not you are hired, and after you are hired, your GPA will never come up again, and from there it is your performance in your company that determines if you will a successful career.

Anecdotally, PhD drop-out rates is about 50%... (50% of PhD candidates never finish their PhDs) While that may seem high, but in that 4 years and looking around my lab, I would say that that number is about right.. Sometimes better opportunity comes around and they drop their program.. others may not feel that they are making sufficient progress after 1 year, and they decided to drop before investing the rest of that time... So unless you have a clear idea of what you want to do with that PhD, you should not do a PhD.

You should also know that in that 4 years, your fate lies fully in the hands of your supervisor.. I have heard supervisor horror stories and am really thankful my supervisor was determined to help me earn my PhD. So you need to know that your supervisor has your interest in mind before you start a PhD with him/her. Talk to your supervisor's other students and try to gauge if he/she is more interested in helping you or is more interested in using you as cheap grad labour.. If you don't trust or have sufficient faith in your supervisor, you should not do a PhD...

However, if you have a clear motivation as to why you want to have that PhD, if you have an inquisitive mind and enjoys dissecting problem, if you dream about problems at night, and wake up in the middle of the night to write down your thoughts, if you enjoy reading tonnes of journals ( and murdering trees.. ) (ya,ya i know i could have used a kindle... ), if you enjoy talking to others and learning from them, and nothing excites you more than to talk about some esoteric thing... if money is not the motivating factor (pay as a PhD grad are decent, depending on the field, but in that 4-5 years, you would have overtaken that pay if you were good enough to do a PhD) , and you can balance your living expenses from just your stipends and your pay as a TA,... If you can plan your time well and know that every hour you procrastinate is an hour extra you have to do in your final year...
first go see a therapist (something is clearly wrong with you), then go ahead and go enrol for a PhD programme...

My background: I worked with a major semiconductor MNC for 7 years before doing my grad studies. So I can definitely empathise with you when you say you are apprehensive because of your age.
Having said that, i don't think that age should be a limiting factors to consider doing a PhD. Family circumstance maybe.. (it is quite difficult to do a PhD if you have young kids you have to worry about and i have the utmost respect to my fellow PhD mates who had to balance between their family and their program) but many of the PhD students I know has both industrial experience and are well ahead in their age... and it does give you insights that the fresh out of Bachelors student might not see immediately...

For future reference, get working experience then go PhD.

PhD is not easy and you're at your supervisor mercy.

Master doesn't offer much if you don't have working experience to back it up.

This post has been edited by HolyValkyrie: May 4 2020, 10:03 AM

If you’re smart enough to do a PhD, then you must be smart enough not to it.
Just heard someone say that, haha. If you are passionate enough, go for it.

Wow this is what, 3 years old thread?

Anyway, I was very enthusiastic before this to get a PhD. I thought you know, life is all about pursuit of what you like, knowledge, so on so fourth. In fact I choose the hard science to pursue. However, after my masters, I've noticed that... life in academia isn't all fun/rosy as well. You'll look back and realise, what the heck had I been doing with my life!! Look at my friends, etc.

Plus one thing, academia is.. literally ivory tower. It's not about knowledge/experience/how fast you can solve a math equation, especially in Malaysia.

I gotten demotivated, left after masters. Ever since I've been yearning to get a part time PhD. Perhaps, one of these days...

Hi, I have the same situation as TS’. I’ve just finished with my degree, wanting to continue master. I approached my lecturer to seek for this advice, he instead asked me to consider fast track PhD since my CGPA is sufficient to go that path. But I’m not sure if I should do fast track PhD because Ihave these 2 choices:
Master : MSc in Economics and Finance (University of Bristol)
PhD: Considering to do Blockchain technology and Big Data.

Any output is welcomed and I will be more than grateful for your opinion. Thanks in advance!

Fast track if you have a scholarship, or else just try out masters before deciding to pursue a PhD.

PhD is a different kind of game. You can go for fast track but you would be lost for the first year, or you may even end up without a degree.

My Prof said the same thing, the intelligent wouldn't pursue their PhDs. Unless you want to become a slave to the academia and be under the publish or perish rule.

I'm in my 6th, and boy it's one hell of an adventure. Not for the faint-hearted.

So... TS done ur PhD already or not?

Yea, interested to know if TS has selected and completed the PhD journey or not.

I took 3.5 years to finish my Ph.D, full time. Passed my Viva December last year, after a 4 hour 'grilling'.

I do have to say it's a very different ball game compared to masters. You might have a supervisor, but in many cases you are so deep into your own rabbit hole, your supervisor wont be able to help much.

It doesn't help that not too many people are interested to hear about your research, unless they are in the same field, and have interest similar or close enough to yours.

It can be a lonely, arduous journey. I have also seen many of my mates that started with me ended up dropping out.

But when you actually finish it, you know you are one tough mf that refused to give up.

I had a brunch with my supervisor yesterday at E&O before my convo today.

I told her while I see the value of continuing my graduate research at the postgrad level, it remains an indulgence that will hv to wait till I retire at 56.

Meanwhile... now that I'm at a stage in my career where I need to do management work at the strategic level, I feel the need to do my MBA.

Her suggestion is that since I already hv a graduate degree & a solid grasp of mgmt processes at the executional & tactical level, I might as well do a DBA (Doctorate in Business Admin).

Anybody did a DBA before?

I don't have it, but I've been thinking about it.

After reading various posts here, I'm thinking of Googling "Fastest & Cheapest Doctorate" and get it done...
I don't think I can spend 4 years doing for it.

I think it is about "why you want it?"