Hi all,

I just got 10% warned by the mod in the garage thread. Will this affect my thread at the garage sales? Cause now my thread link leads to a "Error page that says thread moved"..

I been browsing and read the rules but i could found this
1. thread starters can only bump once a day

I would like to read more about words / actions that could means indirect bump so that i would stay away from mod's fury... lol

Your thread was invisibled because of suspicion of using duplicate accounts to bump it up. Please contact me via PM.

To answer your second question, please read here
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=announce&f=11&id=25

i have 10 warm too.. but my thread is ok..not invisible....

It depends...

Wel'll invis the topic if we found out that it's a duplicate

to be more clear,

the topic is invisible-d because of suspecting spayre using another account to bump his thread..

I would like ask the Forum Admins, Staffs, Mods and TEs regarding the definition of indirect bump with a few threads below as examples to clear the confusion that I'm having. I have read the R&R for indirect bump but I guess there are still some grey areas that we still need to address to.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/354083
From this thread, the user didn't use the bump button but have replied with answers like oledi PM u, updated image Bro, price revised today, etc. So, does that consider as an indirect bump if the seller didn't use the bump button but have answered with such replies which are against the R&R as stated here?


http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/271111/+600
From this thread, the seller used UGPM, oledi replied ur pm, etc. Should be an indirect bump to me, it is totally violating the R&R here but seems like no action is taken. Is it b'coz anyone with the safe trader tag, with thousands of ringgit of successful trades or maybe is a friend of the mods are exempted from the indirect bump thingy and immune to any warnings given by mods? I'm just curious that's all, hope you guys are not offended because my sister has been browsing LYN lately and she noticed a lot of threads are doing such things especially those with safe trader tags or those popular among the forumers here. Hope an explanation can be given for such a situation.


http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=395859&hl=
For this thread, even a Moderator used PM replied. If I'm not mistaken, Moderators don't have a warning meter, right? So, errr ...... if they set a bad example here, I'm sure the normal members will do the same. Sorry Panasonic88, no offence ya , I'm just using your thread as an example, please don't feel offended.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=394115&hl=
How about for this situation? Someone that you know says that you have a nice item for sale, can we reply this way as the threadstarter did? Izzit indirect bump or it's not counted as one but more like a friendly reply?

Scenario A
Buyer replied in the sales thread to inform seller that payment had been made
Seller replies to acknowledge payment. Indirect bump?

Scenario B
What if a buyer asks ten questions in the seller's sales thread and he replies them all ten times? Is that indirect bump?

Scenario C
Buyer knows the seller so he posted something like, "Wah, selling handphones liao, ar?" Seller replies yes lor. Buyer replies again, remember to give special price wor. Seller replies ya ya, no problem. What if the seller knows many people and all of them post something like this. Is that an indirect bump?

Scenario D
Buyer announces new products, products out of stock, price revised, etc in the sales thread. Is that considered an indirect bump?


I hope the Forum Admins, Staffs, Mods and TEs can shed some light here as it's not easy to interprete when does indirect bump come into effect. I just wanted to get a clearer picture so if I'm in such a situation above, at least I know if I'm in the wrong or not and also we can use these examples to defend ourselves if we do get warned. Sometimes, it's not that we wanna break the rules here but lets say if a customer asks for more info, informed you that he has sent a PM to you, etc ....... I guess it's pretty normal we reply back to acknowledge that we have received their PM, that sort of stuff, like a two way communication, at least readers will know that the thread is active and the seller is responsive compared to a thread with UGPM from buyers all the way, with the seller sitting quietly, unable to reply with quote like all PMs replied because that's an indirect bump. It will look bad on the seller sometimes if a normal person comes across such threads, it's like people tell you that they have messaged you but you don't have the courtesy to acknowledge them. Get what I mean?

Anyway, I'm just voicing out my opinion but most importantly, I hope to get answers for the situation above as many of us here are confused with indirect bump so I'm pretty sure many are interested to know what will the Forum Admins, Staffs, Mods and TEs think of the situation above. Lets have a brainstorming session to make LYN a better place for all. Alright?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by sunauto: Jan 24 2007, 06:29 PM

Don't think too much about these things. You're confusing yourself by thinking in the shape of a four dimensional pretzel.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...dpost&p=9341492

I PMed the user, but I didn't receive a reply. I just left a message at the thread. The default forum behaviour when a user receives a PM is to display it in a red box above the page you are viewing. Missed that? What about the obvious red envelope with the "1 New Message"? And most of the users abuse our trust and goodwill by quoting each and every post, separately with a "UGPM". Alot of the violations I encounter encompass the fact that users KNOW there is an EDIT button but REFUSE to use it.

If I were to encounter a "UGPM" styled post that was phrased like this: "Hi, I've returned all the PMs I've received. I hope to get a reply from everyone soon. I will be online tomorrow again at 9pm.", I would be less inclined to think that the seller is just trying to bump up his topic, because there is relevant information there as well.

The key is intention. Show me that you're not some fish market seller who's just YELLING and SCREAMING and talking to himself most of the time, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Most of the time, I can clearly see that some sellers are just abusing the opportunity to reply. To better understand this, take a look at: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=135&t=366577 I don't need to reply to that. I'm grateful, but I can just PM her my thanks.

Here's a quick guide to your questions if I were attending to your sales thread.

Scenario A
Buyer replied in the sales thread to inform seller that payment had been made
Seller replies to acknowledge payment. Indirect bump?

Depending on the style of the post.

Scenario B
What if a buyer asks ten questions in the seller's sales thread and he replies them all ten times? Is that indirect bump?

Use the EDIT button or multi-quote button. Answering buyer's questions is typically not an indirect bump, but there are limits.

Scenario C
Buyer knows the seller so he posted something like, "Wah, selling handphones liao, ar?" Seller replies yes lor. Buyer replies again, remember to give special price wor. Seller replies ya ya, no problem. What if the seller knows many people and all of them post something like this. Is that an indirect bump?

Don't push your luck. If you post something useful/meaningful/contributes to the thread, I'll likely let it slide.

Scenario D
Buyer announces new products, products out of stock, price revised, etc in the sales thread. Is that considered an indirect bump?

Do it in the first post. There is an EDIT button for a reason.

These are MY probable actions if I were to encounter such situations. This does not apply to the entire Mod team, and is by no means the forum standard.

Always remember that we are providing you a FREE platform for selling your wares, as well as completely FREE moderation. Please respect our sanity/time/rules. Now, enjoy your stay at LYN.

This post has been edited by altie: Jan 25 2007, 12:01 AM

The rule against indirect bumps was brought about in order to level the playing field so that people won't bump their topics up excessively (while not providing any new information relevant to their sale). As a side benefit it saves on disk and screen space. There are the simple cases such as "UGPM" that we spell out and disallow, and for most others in the gray area, it's up to moderators' discretion. As altie said, it's about perceiving the seller's intention..

Ideally I wouldn't want buyers to be posting UGPMs too. Either you PM or you post on the board la. Why would you wanna do both? Doesn't make sense, since the recipient gets notified by email and a big pink message upon login. I didn't call for this to be enforced though.. when the rule on indirect bumps was brought about.

PS: If you feel there's double standards.. then you can bring it up in private to the upper moderating team (red + gold tags).

to me - anything that's NOT using the button is indirect bump.

i mean really, why go through all the funny details to identify when it's so easy.

UGPM? WTH is that for? if the person got PM, he/she will have to be blind not to notice it.

price update? you could do it in first post, you're gonna BUMP the thread sooner or later.

if the post was something like (as what altie mentioned : intention) "hey people, sorry i won't be around for the next few weeks." then i'm ok la.

but UGPM, or all PMs replied. they're just a bait for my mouse-click.

Altie, wKkaY & Goldfries, thanks for your detailed answers, appreciate it. At least I have a clearer picture now on indirect bumps and your answers can also be used an an additional sticky for exisiting and newly registered members too.

im inclined to agree with goldfries and that's the basis for decision for me. i don't care who you are when i pick up the ticket (not that know who's who in tradezone anyway, since i don't hang out there).

things like "UGPM", "all PM replied" are easy but things that fall into the grey areas takes longer for me to decide (eg.the now-current-trend-of quoting multiple post + put in a debatable "informative post" and sneaking in "all PM replied"). my rule of thumb is reflected in the template i use (opera > right click > insert note - since the surge of reports for indirect bumps offenses ) ...



if it isn't an informative post ie. an "away notice", "sold", "reserved for" or answering a specific question that can't be reflected in the first post ;

1. it's a flag for warning the first time (new protocol form admin)
2. and warn upon repeat.


my reply is it's too bad that i was the one that picked up your ticket.

look at it this way, many of you have been to school (or are still in school) and you know how teachers can be different.

they all uphold the same law of the school, just that some are more lenient than others.

anyway, at the rate of INDIRECT BUMPS going on around.

1. it's really damn tiring to PM all offenders.
2. to post on their thread would mean another FREE bump for them.

best solution? i just do magic trick only lor.

GS Rules : Thread starters may 'bump' their threads using the bump button. You may not bump another person's thread. Any post made with the intention of bringing your thread up the page will be punishable by a 3 day suspension.

the fact that we only do magic tricks instead of a 3-day suspension punishment shows we're really lenient already.

They are just lucky that im kinda busy these couple of days

AsenDURE & wKkay,

I was just wondering, when we hit the Report button, is there a way to find out which person handled and looked into our complaint that we have made? I mean it could useful if we have this info so that we can refer to the particular person in charge for follow ups or maybe, say enquiries about it?

There's no way right now, although I may look into coding that in the future.

Edit: oh yeah there is a way - just ask the upper moderating team (red/gold tags) - they can check it out for you.

This post has been edited by wKkaY: Jan 24 2007, 10:59 PM

Goldfries,

Will there be a reduced sentenced if say a particular member with 10% warning be reduced to zero if he or she has been a good boy or girl for the next few months? Or we need to make an appeal for that happen or we just need to sit still and wait for the magic to happen.

me donno. me not the one issuing warnings. me just do magic tricks.

Warning will expire after 6 months.

Somewhere in the middle of this FAQ entry http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=faq&article=6