Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Dota 2 vs Wow PVP

views
     
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 03:33 PM, updated 10y ago

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
which u find more exciting? dota only 4 buttons to push while wow pvp has more than 20 buttons to push...but that also makes dota more newbie friendly.
SUStlts
post Jul 8 2016, 03:36 PM

pee poo pee poo
******
Senior Member
1,891 posts

Joined: Apr 2008
From: Cheras
i dun like complacated stuff so prefer diablo3😂
SUSAzurues
post Jul 8 2016, 03:37 PM

▲▲▲▲
*****
Senior Member
958 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
From: forum.lowyat.net



Alterac Valley WOW in the old days

Feels good man
limfreelance
post Jul 8 2016, 03:37 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
343 posts

Joined: Jul 2011
From: Land of SaberLion :3
CS more easy
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 03:38 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



More buttons doesn't mean more fun though. WoW arena revolves a lot around pillar humping.


TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(Azurues @ Jul 8 2016, 03:37 PM)
Alterac Valley WOW in the old days

Feels good man
*
I still don't fully understand how u destroy bunkers. but moonkin does very well in AV style pvp.
nakal_mode
post Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
34 posts

Joined: Apr 2015
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
SUSHuman10
post Jul 8 2016, 03:46 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
6,774 posts

Joined: Nov 2010
Chen and meepo asked UWOTM8?

This post has been edited by Human10: Jul 8 2016, 03:46 PM
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 03:46 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(nakal_mode @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
*
u will

if ur a healer and the opposite team healer is at low health every member will use their burst on him, even the healer..
arubin
post Jul 8 2016, 03:46 PM

Holy Pastafarian
****
Senior Member
670 posts

Joined: Oct 2007
From: Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster


QUOTE(nakal_mode @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
*
You will be surprised. Shadow priests have been known to melt faces while tossing out the odd heal on occasion.

Boomkins will starfire you and buff/heal their allies. Feral druids do fucking everything.

Admittedly, while you're actually in combat, you will be pressing only 5-6 buttons most of the time. But throughout the entire battle? Some classes have a lot of buttons to press.
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 03:50 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



Used to be a lot more buttons until they did the ability pruning thing.

QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
I still don't fully understand how u destroy bunkers. but moonkin does very well in AV style pvp.
*
You cap the flag and wait it out. Can't remember how long though I think it's about 2.5 minutes.
Lucifer96
post Jul 8 2016, 03:51 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
257 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
WoW PVP?

You mean pillar humping exercise?
SUS~min~
post Jul 8 2016, 03:51 PM

   SUN AND SUMMER!!
******
Senior Member
1,045 posts

Joined: Jan 2010
From: land beyond heaven and hell!!



dota 4 button lmao must be trash tier noob




just stick to wraith king then, trash friendly hero, 1 button only, oh muh skill cap
ch@ich@i
post Jul 8 2016, 03:53 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
330 posts

Joined: Nov 2007
the battlegrounds hnggggghh nostalgic. played night & days sleepless night for grand marshal gears.
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 03:54 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 03:50 PM)
Used to be a lot more buttons until they did the ability pruning thing.
You cap the flag and wait it out. Can't remember how long though I think it's about 2.5 minutes.
*
bunker auto destroy after u capture 2.5 min?
Balaclava
post Jul 8 2016, 03:57 PM

5-Star Swagger
*****
Senior Member
941 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
QUOTE(nakal_mode @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
*
by oh-shit you mean insignia of the hoe?

SUSSirmacai
post Jul 8 2016, 03:58 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
229 posts

Joined: Apr 2016


Cs la. Cs just aim and tembak.
SUSAzurues
post Jul 8 2016, 04:02 PM

▲▲▲▲
*****
Senior Member
958 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
From: forum.lowyat.net



QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
I still don't fully understand how u destroy bunkers. but moonkin does very well in AV style pvp.
*
any range class also does well lol

err just go in bunker either cap the flag and wait it out for few minutes or kill the general inside
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 04:04 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(nakal_mode @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
*
mage has a lot of button to push. after u play mage other class has no taste, esp those with dps rotation.

u gotta keep icebarrier up, use frost nova/blink/iceblock/ when in trouble
choose in between icelance and frostbolt to dmg
fireball when proc
deep freeze when target low health
poly when fighting more than 1 enemy
cone of cold when come too close with enemy
summon water elemental
use icey vains when u see fit
fireblast when u panic and don't know wht to do
..
skloda
post Jul 8 2016, 04:05 PM

Keep Calm , You Only Live Once
******
Senior Member
1,895 posts

Joined: Apr 2010
From: Keep Walking ... Tomorrowland

CS the best , just spam your bullet !!
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 04:06 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(Azurues @ Jul 8 2016, 04:02 PM)
any range class also does well lol

err just go in bunker either cap the flag and wait it out for few minutes or kill the general inside
*
I was referring to moonkin's starfall. in the grand fight its quite a sight to see starfall hitting everyone
gnomemaster
post Jul 8 2016, 04:08 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
210 posts

Joined: May 2008



There's a reason why u win 16million usd playing dota2 and not wow.
SUSAzurues
post Jul 8 2016, 04:11 PM

▲▲▲▲
*****
Senior Member
958 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
From: forum.lowyat.net



QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 04:06 PM)
I was referring to moonkin's starfall. in the grand fight its quite a sight to see starfall hitting everyone
*
Every class also got aoe lo like dis

Warrior just go and spin spin everyone dies
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 04:11 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 03:54 PM)
bunker auto destroy after u capture 2.5 min?
*
Yeah just don't let the opposing faction to cap it back, timer will reset.

That's why you need to defend it after capping. Leave only when it's on fire.

QUOTE(gnomemaster @ Jul 8 2016, 04:08 PM)
There's a reason why u win 16million usd playing dota2 and not wow.
*
What do you think is the reason? smile.gif
silic0sis
post Jul 8 2016, 04:11 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
37 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(nakal_mode @ Jul 8 2016, 03:42 PM)
There maybe 20 buttons you can assign for everything in WoW but in reality you only push around 5-6 buttons which depending on your talents. Example: a healer will never push buttons that are used by DPS and a DPS will almost never push any buttons related to heal.

The others are just buff, oh-shit button and other situational use buttons..
*
For serious arena players, probably closer to 60-90 hotkeys.
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 04:14 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



QUOTE(silic0sis @ Jul 8 2016, 04:11 PM)
For serious arena players, probably closer to 60-90 hotkeys.
*
Lol this.

For example, a mage:
Sheep player1, sheep player2, sheep player3.
Counter spell player1, player2, player3.

That's 6 keys already for only 2 abilities.
gnomemaster
post Jul 8 2016, 04:16 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
210 posts

Joined: May 2008



QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:11 PM)
Yeah just don't let the opposing faction to cap it back, timer will reset.

That's why you need to defend it after capping. Leave only when it's on fire.
What do you think is the reason? smile.gif
*
Actually. I pun tatau 😂
gnomemaster
post Jul 8 2016, 04:20 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
210 posts

Joined: May 2008



QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:14 PM)
Lol this.

For example, a mage:
Sheep player1, sheep player2, sheep player3.
Counter spell player1, player2, player3.

That's 6 keys already for only 2 abilities.
*
Tinker full slot how?
Hex player1, Dagon, laser, rocket, shiva, eblade, blink n tele base, refresh, tele back to a hero, repeat til everyone dead.
That's 8 skills Jz to kill one sohai str morphling 😑
Aparaa
post Jul 8 2016, 04:21 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
72 posts

Joined: Jul 2012
From: Eastern Kingdom
QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:14 PM)
Lol this.

For example, a mage:
Sheep player1, sheep player2, sheep player3.
Counter spell player1, player2, player3.

That's 6 keys already for only 2 abilities.
*
Some people just mapped everything under one or two button. And keep smashing that two buttons all night long.
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 04:22 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:14 PM)
Lol this.

For example, a mage:
Sheep player1, sheep player2, sheep player3.
Counter spell player1, player2, player3.

That's 6 keys already for only 2 abilities.
*
for fcuk, just ctrl v and click on the names la

if bg , they want poly player 1 to player 20?
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 04:22 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(Aparaa @ Jul 8 2016, 04:21 PM)
Some people just mapped everything under one or two button. And keep smashing that two buttons all night long.
*
that's called the faceroller class aka ret pally during wotlk
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 04:25 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 03:38 PM)
More buttons doesn't mean more fun though. WoW arena revolves a lot around pillar humping.
*
ala the pro gaming scene isnt so bad ma, but as the expansions came out and added more skills hp/buttons etc, i think to the layman (technically i am as well since i've quit WoW for so long) it seems a bit... well, people just wouldn't understand what's going on and i guess the perception of just LOS aka pillar humping going on.
rjsyazwan
post Jul 8 2016, 04:28 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
4 posts

Joined: Sep 2012


Ayam play with women onli hav 3 button

Still da best game eva brows.gif

This post has been edited by rjsyazwan: Jul 8 2016, 04:28 PM
GameFr3ak
post Jul 8 2016, 04:31 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
3,849 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Location


I often find fighting games exciting to watch. Blade n Soul, dragon nest, etc. Basically those that requires a lot of combos.

I also like to watch competitive CSGO matches. RIP NIP.
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 04:31 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 04:22 PM)
for fcuk, just ctrl v and click on the names la

if bg , they want poly player 1 to player 20?
*
He said arena.

You click on name plates then you're losing out already.
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 04:35 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 8 2016, 04:25 PM)
ala the pro gaming scene isnt so bad ma, but as the expansions came out and added more skills hp/buttons etc, i think to the layman (technically i am as well since i've quit WoW for so long) it seems a bit... well, people just wouldn't understand what's going on and i guess the perception of just LOS aka pillar humping going on.
*
Haha I think WoW arena very unpopular as an esport because most people dunno what the hell is going on laugh.gif can't blame them, since the game wasn't designed that way from the ground up.

How are you liking Overwatch? biggrin.gif
Chaud
post Jul 8 2016, 04:36 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,119 posts

Joined: Jun 2007


dota where got only 4 buttons? got more than that
TSGnomeMage
post Jul 8 2016, 04:37 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
198 posts

Joined: Jun 2012
QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:35 PM)
Haha I think WoW arena very unpopular as an esport because most people dunno what the hell is going on laugh.gif can't blame them, since the game wasn't designed that way from the ground up.

How are you liking Overwatch? biggrin.gif
*
overwatch...might as well play cs. need to buy somemore.
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 04:39 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:31 PM)
He said arena.

You click on name plates then you're losing out already.
*
mouse over macro key binds la
silic0sis
post Jul 8 2016, 04:44 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
37 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 8 2016, 04:39 PM)
mouse over macro key binds la
*
The problem with mouseover is you have to use your mouse to move over target frames or whatever, that means you can't use your mouse to direct your character for that moment.
It's ok for things like sheep or casted skills where you have to stay still, but if you're gonna macro other stuff might as well macro everything lol.

QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 04:22 PM)
for fcuk, just ctrl v and click on the names la

if bg , they want poly player 1 to player 20?
*
You have to remember WoW movement is WASD kinda like FPS games. Imagine if you're playing CS, running around, using your mouse to help you direct your character but you need to keep moving your mouse to click stuff on the side, it's just way less efficient. Plus it's also much faster to just click a macro hotkey to use skill on target 1/2/3 versus moving your mouse to the target frame then hitting a button.

This post has been edited by silic0sis: Jul 8 2016, 04:50 PM
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 04:45 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:35 PM)
Haha I think WoW arena very unpopular as an esport because most people dunno what the hell is going on laugh.gif can't blame them, since the game wasn't designed that way from the ground up.

How are you liking Overwatch? biggrin.gif
*
ok la, something new, and of course the weab factor lol


just spam die die die lel

well, its the game most played by my friend list atm, so oh well cough up rm160 lo... and ugh, actually more because buying new mic la... new mouse la...
thinking of getting a roccat alumic, but heard that's no longer available.

my razer vespula already separating a bit on the edge, and a new same mouse pad is like 159 now :/
i like a wrist rest on my home pc so ya, choice almost non existent minus the vespula.

looking into gsync monitors too, and lol the cost.
i could just settle for a 144hz monitor... but hmm... don't know...
that saves me at least 1k by not going gsync :/
khelben
post Jul 8 2016, 04:48 PM

I love my mum & dad
*******
Senior Member
6,056 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Suldanessellar



QUOTE(GnomeMage @ Jul 8 2016, 04:37 PM)
overwatch...might as well play cs. need to buy somemore.
*
Nope. Very different. OW is quick fast and fun as fuark.

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 8 2016, 04:39 PM)
mouse over macro key binds la
*
The time you take to move your cursor over your target is quite significant compared to a press of a key smile.gif it's very very different.

Something like, difference between clicking counter spell and keybinding counter spell.
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 04:50 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(silic0sis @ Jul 8 2016, 04:44 PM)
The problem with mouseover is you have to use your mouse to move over target frames or whatever, that means you can't use your mouse to direct your character for that moment.
It's ok for things like sheep or casted skills where you have to stay still, but if you're gonna macro other stuff might as well macro everything lol.
*
your current target don't need a mouse over all the time la, already selected what.
and there's the joke over tot/tott etc (healers should be very well aware, but that expanded to dps'ers too, eg to peel/assist)

and implying people don't use macro/keybinds in WoW.
you do know that there's an in game macro binding right?
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 04:54 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(khelben @ Jul 8 2016, 04:48 PM)
The time you take to move your cursor over your target is quite significant compared to a press of a key smile.gif it's very very different.

Something like, difference between clicking counter spell and keybinding counter spell.
*
people generally still do la as:
1) 3 keys vs 1 key 2) if you can play overwatch/fps you most certainly can aim a name play in a flick 3) i was a rogue

your click vs keybind is different because:
click = click spell, click on target
keybind is 1 press, right?

mouse over is the same, 1 press.
only difference is that no target is pre assigned unlike binding 3 keys just to have 3 targets assigned for one spell.
silic0sis
post Jul 8 2016, 04:56 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
37 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 8 2016, 04:50 PM)
your current target don't need a mouse over all the time la, already selected what.
and there's the joke over tot/tott etc (healers should be very well aware, but that expanded to dps'ers too, eg to peel/assist)

and implying people don't use macro/keybinds in WoW.
you do know that there's an in game macro binding right?
*
Yeah but to do mouseover means you need to move your mouse over something, that means you can't use your mouse to navigate.
I'm not sure what your argument is, that mouseover is just as efficient as macro skill on target1/2/3? Not sure how you can argue that.
If you are arguing that it's still viable to mouseover, then yes I agree it's viable, but you have to agree that it is less efficient, which is my point and the reason we have so many hotkeys.

This post has been edited by silic0sis: Jul 8 2016, 04:57 PM
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 05:11 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(silic0sis @ Jul 8 2016, 04:56 PM)
Yeah but to do mouseover means you need to move your mouse over something, that means you can't use your mouse to navigate.
I'm not sure what your argument is, that mouseover is just as efficient as macro skill on target1/2/3? Not sure how you can argue that.
If you are arguing that it's still viable to mouseover, then yes I agree it's viable, but you have to agree that it is less efficient, which is my point and the reason we have so many hotkeys.
*

random trip down nostalgia
*disclaimer: someone else's video, im not as pro lol*

why you need to use your mouse to navigate? kan awsd?
unless you want to 180 quick scope your rear?
in arenas chances are you have full video of all your enemies and those that aren't in your screen, chances are (again i'm a rogue, being melee) you can't reach them anyways.

it sure as hell doesn't take long for me to flick my mouse cursor to hover over a target and press one button, vs making up 3 buttons to for 3 different targets. unless you can code an algorithm into it and consolidate it into 1 button, in which blizz would say hello to you probably laugh.gif

but yes, avg WoW players even at the PVE scene do have a shit ton of hotkeys, whether they use all of them or not (from the video i post, a lot of those "keys" are just macro "placeholders" like i do mine.) is another matter but it will surely dwarf any moba scene/player when it comes to hotkeys that's for sure nod.gif
silic0sis
post Jul 8 2016, 05:13 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
37 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 8 2016, 05:11 PM)
it sure as hell doesn't take long for me to flick my mouse cursor to hover over a target and press one button, vs making up 3 buttons to for 3 different targets. unless you can code an algorithm into it and consolidate it into 1 button, in which blizz would say hello to you probably laugh.gif
But which is quicker? Flicking your mouse to hover and pressing one button, or just pressing one button? That's basically what you are arguing lol. If having more hotkeys isn't an issue, then why not do it?

Reckful has 1/2/3 hotkeys also in that video. Rogue probably has the fewest hotkeys of all wow charas. Healers have the most hotkeys, I think my warrior had like 65, my shaman in cata had 80 or something.

Edit: Actually I think in reckful's vid those are target 1/2/3 and focus 1/2/3. So he'd have to use 2 hotkeys, but not have to flick his mouse.

This post has been edited by silic0sis: Jul 8 2016, 05:20 PM
Quazacolt
post Jul 8 2016, 07:00 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
5,369 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(silic0sis @ Jul 8 2016, 05:13 PM)
But which is quicker? Flicking your mouse to hover and pressing one button, or just pressing one button? That's basically what you are arguing lol. If having more hotkeys isn't an issue, then why not do it?

Reckful has 1/2/3 hotkeys also in that video. Rogue probably has the fewest hotkeys of all wow charas. Healers have the most hotkeys, I think my warrior had like 65, my shaman in cata had 80 or something.

Edit: Actually I think in reckful's vid those are target 1/2/3 and focus 1/2/3. So he'd have to use 2 hotkeys, but not have to flick his mouse.
*
if your additional buttons are in "not so convenient places" i would actually argue that the flicking mouse method being quicker because you'd be wondering if people aiming a gun and then shooting it being slow.
yes, you could also argue people actually buy mmo mouse (lol razer naga) and get used to it. but afaik majority of pro WoW players don't use it and afaik also majority of rogue player at least uses the mouse over method which iinm same goes for reckful.

but if you're gonna say pressing 2 hotkeys vs a mouse flick... uh.
not to mention, it isn't just blind being the only target/tot/focus useful skill, considering how he pulled so many clutch smoke bomb (aoe ground aim lol)/gouge/saps/kicks. would be a keybinding nightmare don't you think? laugh.gif

well, you could assign any name/macro icons so personally i'm not gonna speculate further la.

Bump Topic Add ReplyOptions New Topic
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0233sec    0.62    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 15th December 2025 - 03:24 AM