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 USA Stock Discussion v8, Brexit: What happens now?

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bellion
post Jun 19 2020, 01:32 PM

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This is a powerful bull market backed by the US Feds and big funds and it is the largest bull rally from a bear move. Those of you who still have foolish thoughts to play shorts should start thinking long instead. Trying to prove your short theories right will only end in you losing your own shorts (literally speaking).

Remember the market trend can outlast your trading account Trying to prove yourself right instead of just investing based on the current trend is pure idiocy.
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(dudewhatisthis @ Jul 7 2020, 03:56 PM)
TSLA just keeps rising, I don't understand.
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Because it's a tech stock that is highly rated and the founder is the modern day Thomas Edison.

Buy and hold. It will reach a much higher price.
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 09:24 AM

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The short players have disappeared from this thread. Still covering their shorts? hmm.gif

Goes to show that you NEVER trade against the market. Be flexible. Go long or short based on the market trend, time it correctly and not rely on your stubborn beliefs. Let the market tell you what to buy and sell and not based on over inflated self opinions. Also, it's a LOT harder to make decent $$ playing shorts than longs. Take a look at the Tesla and Netflix short institutional hedge fund players and they are bleeding copious amounts. When they cover their shorts, those counters jump up and make it even better for the holders laugh.gif

Remember, the market trend can go a lot longer than your trading account balance. Also, it is the best mechanism in existence to humble just about anybody. I have been humbled by it many times and have learnt my lessons - never trade against it.

My opinion is that this a long term secular bull market for the next 10 YEARS. There will be pullbacks and corrections along the way (like in the last quarter of 2018 and the recent coronavirus sharp decline) but the overall trend will still be up. It's primarily driven by a technological revolution as the next big leap forward and it would be foolish to bet against it.

This post has been edited by bellion: Jul 9 2020, 09:28 AM
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 9 2020, 09:23 AM)
Read it will be 2k-4k high.

But by that time it too high for people to invest in.

Wonder will TSLA choose to split the share.
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There are fund managers who believe it will be as high as 15K. Don't bet against visionaries like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. They can move mountains and it would be a smart move to go along with whatever they are pushing for as an investor.

It won't split as investors can buy single shares hence there is no need for them to do it.

Buy it when it pulls back to the 50 day moving average and bounce off it.

This post has been edited by bellion: Jul 9 2020, 09:38 AM
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(dudewhatisthis @ Jul 9 2020, 10:23 AM)
atm I can only buy fractional shares haha

Anybody here with IBKR accounts trading TSLA options? wish I could do that too
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That's fine as long as you can participate in a top quality stock like TSLA.


bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 9 2020, 02:00 PM)
how much profit tsla is reporting? current scenario is not dissimilar to dotcom bubble period. as long as fresh money is buying, price will rise.
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9 cents a share in Q1.

There is nothing similar to the dotcom bubble in 2000. Dotcom companies then didn't even have products and sales, let alone selling almost a million cars.

Institutional investors are focused on growth stocks and not old economy stocks with nothing on the table except dividends.
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 9 2020, 02:11 PM)
at $0.09 eps, how much this share should be valued?
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As what the market values it which is the current stock price.




bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 9 2020, 02:09 PM)
In the short term, the market is on random walk. in the long term, economic equilibrium always prevail.

whether the market will settle with new norm high p/e level is remain to be seen.
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All growth stocks have high p/e.

Try buying a low p/e stock like an airline or a bank and see how much returns you will get.
bellion
post Jul 9 2020, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 9 2020, 02:21 PM)
is current price sustainable?
yes, growth stock has high p/e, the question is how high is too high?
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As high as the market accepts it to be so.

If it turns south, get out or hedge.

Nobody can predict the future. Trade according to the market trend.
bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Jul 9 2020, 09:49 PM)
Tesla should be valued at which the current stock price is? I must say this mindset is quite dangerous. However, i think you have more strategy than simply this, i guess.  laugh.gif

You said last quarter eps was 9 sen. Consider in coming 1 year, eps grows 10 fold! Super growth engine. 0.09*4*10 = 3.6, then PE will be 386x at current price of 1392. After that, consider the following 3 years with eps cagr of 100% (maintain super high growth), PE will be 193->96.5->48.25x. Meaning, with above explosive growth, PE will still be as high as 48x by FY24.
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Trying to value a technology stock like Tesla with PE belongs in the last century. The value of the stock is what the market (read: institutional funds) is willing to pay for it. It is folly to think that you and I are smart enough to be able to come up with a so-called fair valuation based on a few simple formulas from textbooks.

All super performers in the stock market over the last two decades have always had higher PE ratios than most other stocks. Remember Amazon and Google?

Look at it this way - why would a top quality stock which is innovative and offers game changing products be cheap? You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and expect a Proton price.
bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 10 2020, 09:33 AM)
Amazon and Google deliver profits consistently, tsla has yet.
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But Amazon and Google has years of losses and their stock prices still rose rapidly then.


bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 10 2020, 09:38 AM)
But he will tellya profits is old mind set. New paradigm is tech stocks no need to shew profitability!    tongue.gif
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Profits or earnings will eventually matter but sales and innovation matter much more at the earlier stage of a stock's life cycle.


bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Jul 10 2020, 10:04 AM)
Agreed .. i bought AMZN in 2016 when they werent making profit and everyone said it was overvalued. it was 700s then. Sold 1/3 last friday at 2900.. today ATH again near 3200

I wouldnt mind putting some money into TSLA when there is a slight pullback if any.

Next one hopefully is SE ( owns shopee ) entered a little late. but i only see eCommerce in our region to be heading upwards
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People were proclaiming Tesla was way overvalued at the 200+ range and it's one of the most heavily shorted stocks in history.

I have been around long enough to see and hear similar stories of no profits and overvalued for Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Apple, Nvidia, etc for years and years. While the likes of the airlines stocks and Wells Fargo, JP Morgan banking stocks etc are fairly valued and good stock picks. Just because their PE rations told you so.

Well, take a look at where the prices have gone and judge for yourself. cool2.gif

Anyone who uses PE ratios to pick stocks is going to massively underperform the market.

Even Warren Buffet is putting big money into tech - Apple now consists of 40% of his portfolio.

The old value investing model is DEAD!

This post has been edited by bellion: Jul 10 2020, 05:10 PM
bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(kingz113 @ Jul 10 2020, 10:36 AM)
Waiting for the rotational pullback from growth to value stocks to load up more. As of last night:

Fastly 5 bagger,
Livongo 3 bagger
Ttd almost 1 bagger.
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All top quality. Pullbacks to the 21 day and 50 day moving average and watch them bounce off for your picks.
bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(ChAOoz @ Jul 10 2020, 11:38 AM)
Seemed everybody forgot about the growth at no profit consequences during the 98 - 00s era.

Solid company during that time also had crazy valuations, eg Cisco, Qualcomm etc. That din't end pretty well. Qualcomm took almost 20 years to recover.
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You take profits when the stock is showing signs of topping and declining.

There's no rule that you need to stick to them. Sell and get out as soon as you see weakness. If you held them long enough, you would be sitting on astronomical profits. Cisco went up 70,000% from 1990 till 2000!


bellion
post Jul 10 2020, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(z21j @ Jul 10 2020, 01:16 PM)
While people are chasing big players, i aim AMD.
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AMD is a quality stock but for some reason hasn't been an active participant in the current rally.

I would suggest Nvidia and Inphi as better performing chip stocks but you can continue watching AMD.
bellion
post Jul 11 2020, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 11 2020, 08:02 AM)
Since we discussing potential high growth, High tech, no profit, just a good story......
So out of how many techs, we get the odd Msft, Gogg, Amzn?

How many has died?
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What do you mean just a good story?

The story needs to have strong sales growth. That's how you sift out the good from the also-rans.

There are so many good tech names nowadays. Not just the "odd" Amazon.


bellion
post Jul 11 2020, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 11 2020, 07:59 AM)
Hindsight is.............
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Hindsight?

More like people who didn't bother to do research and homework.
bellion
post Jul 11 2020, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 11 2020, 08:15 AM)
Irrational Exuberance
By ADAM HAYES
Updated Jul 8, 2020
What Is Irrational Exuberance?
Irrational exuberance refers to investor enthusiasm that drives asset prices higher than those assets' fundamentals justify. The term was popularized by former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan in a 1996 speech, "The Challenge of Central Banking in a Democratic Society." The speech was given near the beginning of the 1990s dot-com bubble, a textbook example of irrational exuberance:
"But how do we know when irrational exuberance has unduly escalated asset values, which then become subject to unexpected and prolonged contractions as they have in Japan over the past decade? And how do we factor that assessment into monetary policy?"
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Irrational exuberance is unfounded market optimism that lacks a real foundation of fundamental valuation, but instead rests on psychological factors.
The term was popularized by former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan in a 1996 speech addressing the burgeoning internet bubble in the stock market.
Irrational exuberance has become synonymous with the creation of inflated asset prices associated with bubbles, which ultimately pop and can lead to market panic.
Breaking down Irrational Exuberance
Irrational exuberance is widespread and undue economic optimism. When investors start believing that the rise in prices in the recent past predicts the future, they are acting as if there is no uncertainty in the market, causing a positive feedback loop of ever-higher prices.
It is believed to be a problem because it can give rise to bubbles in asset prices. But, when the ultimately bubble bursts, investors quickly turn to panic selling, sometimes selling their assets for less than they're worth based on fundamentals. The panic that follows a bubble can spread to other asset classes, and can even cause a recession. The investors who get hit the hardest — the ones who are still all-in just before the correction — are the overconfident ones who are sure that the bull run will last forever. Trusting that a bull won't turn on you is a sure way to get yourself gored.
Alan Greenspan raised the question of whether central banks should address irrational exuberance via a preemptive tight monetary policy. He believed that central should raise interest rates when it appears that a speculative bubble is beginning to take shape.
Example: The Late 1990's Dotcom Bubble
Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan warned the markets about their irrational exuberance on December 5, 1996. But he did not tighten monetary policy until the spring of 2000, after banks and brokerages had used the excess liquidity the Fed created in advance of the Y2K bug to fund internet stocks. Having poured gasoline on the fire, Greenspan had no choice but to burst the bubble.
The crash that followed saw the Nasdaq index, which had risen fivefold between 1995 and 2000, tumble from a peak of 5,048.62 on March 10, 2000, to 1,139.90 on Oct 4, 2002, a 76.81% fall. By the end of 2001, most dot-com stocks had gone bust. Even the share prices of blue-chip technology stocks like Cisco, Intel and Oracle lost more than 80% of their value. It would take 15 years for the Nasdaq to regain its dot-com peak, which it did on 23 April 2015.
Irrational Exuberance, The Book
Irrational Exuberance is also the name of a 2000 book authored by economist Robert Shiller. The book analyzes the broader stock market boom that lasted from 1982 through the dotcom years. Shiller's book presents 12 factors that created this boom and suggests policy changes for better managing irrational exuberance. The book's second edition, published in 2005, warns of the housing bubble burst which ended up occurring three years later in 2008, and led to the Great Recession.
www.investopedia.com/...
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This was the same old trite being pushed out since 2008. Yawn.....
bellion
post Jul 11 2020, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Jul 11 2020, 08:22 AM)
Tell that to my 400% profit on amazon

Hope a rug pull comes soon too.

You should short it since you are convinced the house of cars is going to fall hehe
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The shorts have been contributing to the rise of Amazon's stock price by covering their shorts laugh.gif

Doomsayers have been singing this tune for more than a decade.



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