Recently bought a TV and had gone through lots of reading and troubles. Apparently different TV has different "avoidable" problems, I wont mention much about those. As for some technological and manufacturing problems...here are some of them:

Sharp Aquos 1080p:



*not jsut vertical, but also horizontal banding*

Sony Bravia XBR2 1080p:


*cloud problem*

Samsung (dunno what model):


*common vertical band*

Westinghouse LVM 1080p series (mine):


*brighter streak*

If you cannot see the banding problems...try scrolling the pages and you will see them easily. Following attatchment is a grey background I made to detect vertical banding, you can adjust your TV's brightness to check it out at different grey level. Vertical banding is not new, but is getting serious. This also applies to LCD Monitor and Projectors as well. Another problem is backlight bleeding, easily detectable under black background. Just look around the boarders and see if it has same brightness as the other areas or do they look significantly brighter.

Pictures are all taken from various thread in AVS forum.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 7 2007, 02:27 AM


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great findings, but wrong section i suppose

or maybe

This post has been edited by vincent_audio: Dec 30 2006, 02:40 AM

The hardware section is mainly PC oriented, Phtography section is imaging and digita video oriented, the audio section is actually Audio Video oriented. Nothing wrong with this thread being in this section.

but the forum description seems to be describing otherwise maybe scotty can amend that. Or stop calling this section audiophiles all together

You can ask scotty or the admins to move it if you want though along with all the LCD TV threads. I founded this section ages ago and it was initially intended for "audio" only. It should have been called Audio Video at the first place but for some reasons it was called Audiophiles. (I didn't name it, I just suggested this section and help to materialize it. Other staff and mods werent quite fond of this section at that time though.)

PS: did you take note of the main title of the "hardware" section...it say "computers". Did you check out the content of the Digital forum? cameras and DV

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Dec 30 2006, 02:57 AM

AlamakLor, is there an LCD TV that doesn't suck at all?

Rather disappointing to see all these problems still occuring.

Alamaklor, how much you push the brightness or backlight level before the "brighter streak" show up? My Sharp also got this problem when i turn up the brightness, and certain DVD will exibite some green pixel on the area which is brighter. Wont see it if the DVD quality is good though... Do yours have tis problem too?

Usually it is visible at any level of brightness, after all, it is the screen that is uneven which causes the banding, not the backlight placement or the luminosity if the light. As you can see from the first sharp picture, there are 2 thick dark band that is symmetrical, that is actually the "mark" left by the rolling machine when they are flattening the panels. Green pixels? I think ur tv got some serious problems might wanna rma it before warranty habis...these problems cannot be "serviced" so they will usually just examine it and give u another TV, might be new, might be refurb.

@DSC
not too sure, but all of the have this kind of problem...it's just whether the owners noticed it or not. It is pretty much the limits of the technology. Even on a lcd monitor, you'd still notice that the grey is not particularly smooth compared to CRT.

The green pixel wont be there all the time, and u cant see it on the desktop wallapepaer even if i push the brightness to max. It will only appear on those bad encoded source which already contain some pixel in it, and the tv make it worst. If the source is good, like D9 and some 1080p downloaded from Microsoft, then u wont see it at all. I am getting Sharp to come over and check it next week, hope that they can change a new one for me.

maybe it's some green tint problem...not sure about that. When you get them over...make a huge fuss, tell them that you have checked with many owners online and many ppl have this problem this way, they will really treat it as a problem

Eih, very noble of you to do this Looks like you have a lot of time on your hands.

I know banding is a common problem for Sharp screens but they still look good and are on top of my shortlist...

Anyway does anyone know if it's a problem for Phillips because I was targetting either an Sharp or Phillips LCD TV for my home... I'm looking for a good 32inch screen

Philips has backlight leakage problem in common, may be the hi-end model is better, but expensive like hell. And the low-end model not worth looking at, example the TA1800 and 7321 series. So unless u have adeep pocket to go for Philips 9XXX series, otherwise look some where else.

OIC backlight leakage is it really bad?

I'm doing my best to avoid plasmas because of the high power consumption and problems with image getting burned on the screen...

Is there such a thing as a perfect LCD TV without a heavy price tag coz I only got like RM5k.

You can get HDTV with that price, but lower screen size.

Regarding to the bending problem, is this the same problem that happened to Dell LCD few years back? So this is a common problem for LCD panel regardless of LCD TV or LCD Monitor?
And is the size of panel got something to do with this defect? I'm using a Dell 19" ultrasharp and I don't have this problem, yet.

5k can get u a above average 32" LCD, but no where near perfect, even CRT and plasma has are not perfect. But with 5K u better get a decent 32" than a 37" but crappy LCD.

yeah, the same problem was reported on the dell lcd. Some say it has nothing to do with the sizes, but I think that banding would seem more prominent on larger screens. This is a common problem with LCD technology, but as I said, it is getting more serious nowadays

Do you know any banding problem exists in Plasma tv? It seems I cannot find it in my plasma.

I'm not sure about plasma, I've never really looked into plasma due to the phosphor burning issue...which is going to be inevitable since not many movies are 16:9

This means that CRT is still the best. Unfortunately, component only support low bit rate. Maybe should get CRT with HDMI
http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=cr...ta=lr%3Dlang_en

The issue is a problem when u continuously watch a movie with a logo for a pro-longed period of time. If u switch on and off or sticking to particular channel for less than 5 hrs, i dont think it will be a problem. It has employed the 'picture shift' in it to minimise the problem.

A friend of mine who owns Pioneer plasma doesnt has a problem with this after 3 years.

There's not CRT with HDMI and even if there is you're not getting true HD resolutions, some CRTs support 1080i signals but it doesn't you're getting 1080i resolution.

Well, LCDs or Plasmas might have their own pros and cons but frankly, they're still better looking than a normal CRT when you feed them with HD materials.

The new plasma are suppose to no longer have this problem. However, the plasma is still too fragile and great care is needed, if you forgot to turn off the TV or some silly power outage force the tv to turn on upon getting the power back (my CRT does that) it might cause some serious damage to the Tv. Regardless, this is just one problem with plasma there are many more like rainbow effect. None of the Tvs now are close to perfect and I can't help but keep on noticing their flaws.

is the BRAVIA model supposed to be HD ready? Look disappointed though to look for btter lcd tv...

Both the Bravia V2500 and XBR2/3 are 1080p ready. Both suffers from the Mura effect, and both have about 90% chance of getting dead pixels. I didn't pay too much attention to the XBR2 but I've read comments from some other owners that although the black level is better than other LCD TV, the black crush is even more kau.

Sony's latest flaghship HDTV XBR3 is amongst the best in the 1080p lcd market. It has a very high contrast ratio ( don't remember the exacts ), dual HDMI ports if not mistaken, but getting deal pixels only applies to the plasmas ? Pls clarify.

Oh well we'll just have to sit and wait and wait. There's no point getting a HDTV yet as Bluray/HD-DVD players and movies are still at birth. Thanks for the short life span of technology.

I'm in a dilemma here as I am constantly being bugged by the banding issue with LCD tv...I simply cant stand those damn banding. They look very obvious when the picture is panning left and right as you can see them as haze and they make the screen looks "dirty". I got my TV at a super deal and I'm very very reluctant to return it. But I think LCD technology is just not for me

Just to spam a little. The Garage Sale forum is still available

want me to ship a 42" 60lbs TV from Canada to Malaysia? I dont think so

EDIT: hmm, after ever more testing, I found out that LCD is not able to provide a perfectly smooth backlighting and brightness regardless of size. If you want to see what I mean, this is what you need to do:

1) clean your lcd monitor, make sure that is is very clean
2) make sure your white and black level is set properly so that nothign is washed out
3) take the following picture, do not put it to maximum but keep it windowed.
4) move the window around with your mouse and you will notice that the screen is 'hazy' and 'dirty' eventhough you have cleaned the screen.

The haze and dirtiness is apparently the uneven backlighting and surface of the panel. I thought it was my screen that's suffering from this phenomenon and apparently this is happening to my LCD monitor too...WTF

Have I became a videophile or did I just become more sensitive and anal?
I'm so confused I don't even know what I should do.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 9 2007, 08:35 AM


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I think u are being anal. ha... why dont u just get a CRT instead of LCD or Plasma? As long as u dont move house always, the weight can be ignore. And the sony 36" XBR series Wides creen CRT is still available in US, too bad they dont carry it into Malaysia any more. CRT will has its own problem too, but at least better than plasma or LCD.

CRT size is too small. I am moving to another province in the next 6 months, which is why I am leaning towards LCD. If I were to buy the TV a few months later, I would get the 50" KDS50A2000. But for now, I really cant as I will have to pay a great deal for the shipping next time. I'm wondering if I should just return the TV and wait a few months to get the larger sony with less problems. Man, I can't stand my 24" crt with PS3...it is now worse than crap.

EDIT: Screw it, I'm returning it..I can't stand the banding on LCD. I'll get the 50" SXRD a few months later (hopefully no banding), or go for a panny 1080p plasma....

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 3 2007, 05:26 PM

Well may be u should just return it and wait for another 6 months, or 6 month later u just sell it to your friend and get a new one. Its up to how much u can tolerate your current lcd, if can not, just return it lo... How far do u sit from your tv, 26" is ok if u sit less than 1 meter away, but if u can not tahan the PQ, then there is nothing u can do.

Actually my CRT is only 24" and it can only do 480i....I can barely look at it now but on SD content it still looks ok.

As for the TV, I just came back from Sony Store and some other electronics store. Here are my findings with regards to LCD, RP LCD, and Plasma:

-LCD: Best image of all the technology but poorest black level. Vertical banding is definitely in every single LCD tv out there. I have noticed that both the XBR and V2500 have very even vertical banding. They are all over the screen and are about 1-2 inches apart. I find the VB to be softer compared to other TVs but my GF says that it is even worse than my Westinghouse. The Bravia XBR mura effect is crazy, it is not obvious as long as there is ambient light, and if you are a few ft away. In a totally dark room, you can see the cloud easily and they have different patterns...the one I looked at had a BIG MUTHA ******* Cloud at the left and some smaller ones at the right.

LCD RP: I looked at the 50. 60, and 70" SXRD and boy I must say they suck big time compared to true LCD tv. I did not notice and green blob on any of the SXRD but the sharpness is no where near LCD. The screen is ever so rough in its texture and it looks really noisy. The picture is really soft even if you crank the sharpness to max and the screen looks a little fuzzy. The TVs have all been on for some time and is fully warmed up. Off axis viewing is nightmare... However, the best part is, I can barely see any banding at all. Regardless, I've written off RP, it simply doesnt work for me.

-Plasma: The picture is closest to CRT imho, but requires great care when using them. I noticed that manufaturers have written in the manual that they do not cover image retention, dead pixels, and etc. They did mention in the manual that image retention may occur and encourage users to keep the contrast and brightness low. Another thing to note about plasma is screen reflection. Unlike lcd, there is a coat of glass in the front and obviously you can see your own reflection on the screen as a result of that. Picture wise, I like the samsung quite abit. The color is quite natural and is slightly soft compared to LCD which some ppl find it unnatural. The only problem with Plasma is that it is hard to find 1080p screens that do not blow a hole in your pocket.

I still cannot make up my mind what to do maybe i should just keep the LCD tv?

Well if thats the case then u may have to stick with LCD, and a darn good one since u are so anal about perfection. I didnt check out the Philips 9xxx series very closely(Too darn expensive here!), but may be u can give it a try since its one of the best LCD out there which uses Sharp's panel. But if black level is very important to u then there is not much option though. As for the Sony XBR, may be u can try looking for other batch which do not have the mura effects, so u may have to be very "kam cheng" with the sales man so that he could help u find one.

The problem is i dont wanna spend more than rm6k for the TV I am actually contemplating returning this and get the Hitachi Plasma 720p 42HDS69 1024 X 1080 which accepts native 1080i, Alis panel should be immune to burn in. I can't decide how important is 1080p to me now as I have not seen a 1080p game on ps3 yet. I see no difference between upconverted 720p vs native 720p res. I wanna get the most experience out of GT5 (1080p omg) though.. speaking of which, I should look at a downconverted 1080p BD movie...

SideNote:-
One of the reason why a medical LCD monitor is darn expensive is maker warrant uniform back light panel and all these banding craps. you get a 100% uniform LCD but expect to pay ~rm30k for a 21" 3-Mega Pixel.

cheers

Does the 5 year warranty given by Sony covers the dead pixels as well. I'm not sure about Bravia but for LCD monitors, they guarantee dead pixels free with one to one exchange. Any idea?

Sony doesn't offer zero dead pixel policy. I did not ask them specifically but as I have stated in one of the threads, the bravia line has 90% chance of getting dead pixel (according to AVSforum), just like how 90% of LCDs have obvious banding issue.

Bear in mind that some of these warranty only covers electronics and parts. Similar to Plasma TV warranty, they cover mainly the electronics and parts, but if the screen developed a bunch of dead pixels...they will need to give you a new TV since they can't repair those dead pixels.

Crutchfieldcanada.com has been very very helpful. I told them my reason for not wanting to get the Sony now and the lady told me that they would do a full refund for me and I can get the Tv from them later. But I'd told her I wont go RP since it sucks big time compared to other HDTV technology Now, really, I think 1080p is not a "must" for the next few years, 1080i should be just as good. I didn't pay too much attention to the PQ but I can't really tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i BD movie.

Hitachi 42HDS69 looks promising (1080i native input)

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 4 2007, 11:53 AM

As someone said, anything below 50", u cant tell the difference between 1080I & 1080P unless u sit very very close like less than 4 feet. I am not sure though since i only compare them with my 1366x768 Sharp and i cant tell the difference too. So may be Hitachi plasma is the way u should go.

horrible...simply horrible...the hitachi has flicker issue...I need to do more research...

Why not check out the Panny PV series plasma, i heard its quite good, any price are lower now, and shouls be cheaper in Canada.

woaaa... so much information to digest. one thing for sure, i wouldn't buy lcd tv or monitor online or bulk sales - i need to see the PQ first by my own eyes! thanks for the info guys.

I think I need to do alot more research...looks like I havent done enough homework just yet. My dilemma here is that I got a PS3, I cannot tahan it on SD TV, and I nee a quick solution to use it and I have a low budget now which is why i picked the westinghouse. While the westinghouse has stellar PQ, even better than the SXRD, but the banding is apparent. So, no more LCD to me...I think I need to clear my mind and take a break from TV then make a rational purchase. Anyway, I am slowly increasing my budget...once I lifted that restriction, I should have alot more choices I'm eyeing on the Panasonic. It is only 100USD more compared to the westinghouse in the states, but 500CAD more in Canada.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 5 2007, 01:24 AM

I've checked with some guys on AVSforum and seems like plasma doesnt suffer from banding problem

Plasma main problem is its screen burn, reflextion & resolution, and not very good if u want to connect with your pc. Screen burn and reflextion so far has no solution yet, and plasma with native 1080P is going to burn your pocket kau kau if u really concern about its resolution. My advise is: Dont be too crazy about 1080P, as you are not even sure if u can tell the difference. And even if u can, does it worth the extra penny?

yeah, i'm not gonna bother with 1080p on plasma. I'm either getting a 720p or the hitachi 1080i if the flicker issue is solved. I'll be checking on the panasonic PX600 later today. However, I read that the PX60 has horizontal banding issue... damn

Go check and see it with your own eye, there is no perfect tv, so you can only get something as close to it as possible. Good luck...

yeap. I'll have to see them for myself. As long as the banding is as little as the SXRD projection, I'm cool with it. As far as 1080p is concerned, I'm not too worried about it. Even on my TV, the only time I ever use it at 1080p is on some 1080p hdtv content...it has always been 720p in games. I think as long as the TV can accept 1080i or if it does 1080p processing it should be fine for the next few years. Well of course...as long as the conversion doesn't lag..I know of alot of 1080i downconversion to 720p is not real time and the lag can be felt when gaming.

I m glad to hear that !!
So far I m satisfied using my plasma. Just need to becareful not to let any static image on the screen for more than 8 hours. A decent 42" 1080i screen will costs less than RM 7K nowadays. Regarding 1080p screen, I don't think you can see any difference unless your screen more than 50".

Is it true that plasma consumes more power than lcd tv? As for static images, it's hard to avoid sometimes like the CNN, Channel 8 / 9 logo or if you're playing a RPG like Final Fantasy for hours, stuff like that. However, I believe the current plasma tvs have less of the burn in issues especially those using the Alis technology.

LCDs use florescent backlighting to produce images, they require substantially less power to operate than plasmas do. LCD TVs consume about half the power that plasma displays consume. The reason: Plasmas use a lot of electricity to light each and every pixel you see on a screen - even the dark ones. Though plasma manufacturers have improved voltage consumption requirements a plasma TV will consume around a third more power for the same size display.

Actually for playing games, I would recommend LCD. Plasma is NOT designed for connecting to PC. Its best for watching movies. Try not to watch a TV channel with logo for a very long period, but then normally you will get the see all those "nice" advertisement in between which lasts for 1-3 minutes, so thats not a problem.

I just got back from extensive testing (3-4 hours ) of the Hitachi 42HDT79 (1080i with motorized swivel stand) and Panasonic PX600 (720p). Both are plasma obviously. There is 1 known problem with both of these TV:

Panasonic - horizontal banding *not really a banding, will explain why later
Hitachi - Screen flicker when there is a sharp change in contrast

Apparently the Hitachi flicker can be fix with a firmware, and also can be curb with some settings in the service menu...so it is really not a big problem. I find the hitachi to be more vivid than the panasonic, but also a little noisier...but my GF says that the Hitachi is better and much more natural, very close to a CRT.

The panasonic seems smoother to me, but my GF says the screen sorta looks like it had added photoshop smart blur on the picture and a little unnatural. Having said that, the panasonic is less noisier than the Hitachi.

Anyway, in general, I've found that LCD gives the smoothest picture with virtually 0 noise of it own. Plasma is much noisier and it can be seen easily if you compare an lcd and plasma side by side. As for color reproduction, plasma seems to be better off, and of course...black level as well. I can't decide which TV is better...the Hitachi or the Panasonic. I am actually leaning towards the hitachi as it can take 1080i (not as clean and clear as LCD @ 1080p though). Another thing is the Hitachi looks alot nicer (aesthetic), the panny looks really gross...especially the base. Anyway, at about 8 ft apart, Plasma noise is acceptable and not very significant. I think the panasonic has slightly better black level but the Hitachi black level is not bad at all...much better than my LCD imho. The panasonic is 400 (RM1300) bucks more than the Hitachi.

Anyway, regarding the flicker issue on the Hitachi..I didnt see a thing, but the content I was playing back didnt have a sharp change in contrast. As for the panasonic horizontal banding..It is fairly obvious when you display a pale background. The banding looks like poor gradient to me which causes a bunch of lines on the horizontal axis. I dont think this has anything to do with uneven surface/backlighting...it looks more like color banding to me. It is not visible in shows at all, and these poor gradient is often seen in LCD as well but less severe in projection (due to softer image)

As for the power consumption...yes...plasma suck up almost 150-200% like piscesguy said. If you live in Malaysia...power shouldn't be an issue *cough*. Plasma has poorer resolution and the noisier image makes it not so well to use it as a pc monitor. I've read alot about the newer plasma and image retention issue. It seems that if you burn in the plasma for 200hours or so with alternating color and image, the image retention issue will not appear, even less with Alis panel. However, I can tell you for sure that I saw some image retention on a set of Pioneer earlier. When the scene changes, I still see some text on the screen. But after a min or so the retained image went away.

EDIT: I think I will get the hitachi if they can do RM7.3k for me after 14% tax.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 5 2007, 12:37 PM

Well observed, if you still cant make up your mind which one to go with, the first thing to consider is the price, then the warranty terms and after sales service. U dont want to deal with a bunch of axxhole when something go wrong with your tv.

The price is definitely still a concern to me. I found out something very interesting. I went to this shop earlier called www.audiotronic.ca, not the online store, but the local store. The guy quoted me 2248.88CAD for the hitachi. When I went to the online store earlier, it is 60CAD cheaper. Im guessing he is putting that in as a commission. I'm gonna try calling another store and tell them about the online price and ask them to do 2000CAD for me. even if it is 2100 CAD, it is still a good price but I am paying 100cad more than the lowest price in the market.

As far as the warranty is concerned, I think there is little thing to warrant about for a plasma. The Hitachi carry 1 year on-site warranty, credit card will carry extra 1 year (whoa damn..almost forgotten about this..I wanted to pay cash) The only thing they really warrant you is the functionality of the electronics anyway.

The after sales service of this store is no where gonna near crutchfield (the place I got my westinghouse) but I can still return it within 15 days full money back guarantee. They have local store near my place so exchanging is not gonna be a problem. The best thing with this TV is that there is alot of user (forum) support for it and the firmware can be user upgradable (same for panasonic)

Beside checking about the plasma only, do check if there is any problem when use it in conjunction with PS3, sometimes electronic things are nasty. Do report back after you get yourself the Hitachi/Panasonic.

Forgot to ask a question. For those who use LCD without Astro, how is the PQ of the normal channel? I only manage to get sharp picture with TV3 and Channel 8, the rest all either very blur or with lots of interference like noises and lines. Bought a signal booster but the result is worst. I cant install any antenna since i am staying in a condo and all tv/astro channel are coming from dedicated wall socket.

So if i manage to get clear picture with 2 channels, is it possible that the other station's signal are too weak to reach my condo and there is nothing i can do to improve the signal strenght? Beside installing an antenna at my balcony, which may be agaist the rule of my condo.

Yes, I use it to mainly plays games on my XBOX 360 so I got a LCD instead. Can't have the best of both worlds but seriously, LCDs still can't display true blacks yet, it looked like a lighter shade of black and not those deep blacks that you get with plasma displays. Hai ....... Toshiba SED tv where are you? I guess that's probably my answer to get the best of both worlds, picture quality wise, hopefully it's not all talk and no action, worst of all, the project might be canned for good due to cost reasons.

New plasma models have 'picture shift' being integrated in it to minimise the burn-in effect.

I'll be returning my LCD and will be picking up the Hitachi 42HDT79:


Btw, here's what my eyes tell me how each different technology look like:
LCDTV

Plasma

SXRD

Photoshop? So which one do u like most? Seems to me that LCD is the sharpest in your eye

ah yes, LCD is definitely the sharpest. Plasma is almost as sharp but with extra noise and the jagginess around the edges is more prominent than lcd. SXRD RP has the poorest PQ imho.

The Panasonic PX600 plasma looks very ugly imho so ugly that I'm not gonna bother with the PQ

Why i can't see any different between the 3 pictures? am i having so-bad eyes?

made a more extreme example:
LCD

Plasma

RP

LCD looks kinda "clean" . are movies supposed to look this 'clean'?

Yes, pretty close to film, but wthout the sparkling artifacts (forgot what was the correct term) seen in films. Some ppl would find LCD to have a flatter image and less lively compared to plasma and CRT...I'm not so concerned about that myself though.

EDIT: forgot to mention this in my previous posts....Plasma off axis viewing is by far the best...I was looking at the panasonic at 175 degree angle and the color, brightness, and contrast is still the same as if I was viewing it from the front. RP off axis viewing is NIGHTMARE! I was looking at the 60" Bravia XBR SXRD RP at
Sony Store that day..you really need to sit at the front sit and at a proper height to get the best PQ, if you move around, you will see color banding right away. LCD is Second best imho, but still depends on the model itself. My Westinghouse is quite horrible..the screen would look very pale and bright at about >45 degree.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 6 2007, 08:08 AM

The sparkling artifacts u meant is call film grain, it was on all the movies that shoot on film, and the oldies has bigger grain than the new one due to the technology. If the movie was shoot on HD, then it wont have any grain in it and it looks too clean and fake for some ppl. So they will do some post processing or even transfer it to film to get the film grain look. And why they still wanna shoot on HD? Its a lot cheaper, and cheaper means at least 5 to 6 times cheaper than using film.

Actually for me the SXRD is not as bad as u mentioned. I saw Montser inc on the 60" Sony SXRD and i can see every single detail including Sully's firs and the color and grey scale is very good, they biggest draw back is the viewing angle as u said. But its darn good if use it only for HT and sit tight when u are watch a show, and u will be happy.

This post has been edited by tong1774: Jan 6 2007, 03:07 PM

The SXRD is very horrible imho. I've spent lots of time with the game Motorstorm on my LCD and I am very used to LCD's high resolution and definition. Moving to the SXRD is just plain nightmare. As I have mentioned, the image is significantly softer, and the jagginess is alot more obvious on the SXRD. The worst thing about RP besides the poor viewing angle is the texture of the screen. Depending on how sensitive you are, you can see the screen's grain at almost anytime. It is most obvious when you are looking at a single spot and particularly when the screen is on a white background. The gain will look like noise on the plasma, but seems rougher and you can see color reflection within the grains. Unfortunately, they need the grain for the screen to work...I would have prefered a crystal clear glass like the plasma...or better still, anti glare screen with virtually no visible gain like the lcd. The only pros that I can see in RP is screen size vs price. RP will look alright if you are sitting very far away (10ft or so) but at the same size and resolution, plasma will beat it in PQ easily...at a higher price of course. LCD lagi no doubt

A 60" SXRD is mean to watch at a distance more than 10 feets anyway, do u observe it in a several store or just 1 particular shop? Beacuse from iwhat saw its not as bad as u mentioned, and i have very sharp eye i can say (I work as a commercial video editor btw) Is it possible that the set u saw was feed with a bad source?

I dont consider my ps3 a bad source I've tested both the 50 and 55" model, projection are all the same. It's easy to tell how poor the PQ is, just look at other plasma/lcd with the same source (even without tweaking), the PQ will trounce RP btw, which part is not that bad? you can't see the projection screen grain? picture not soft? btw, the jagginess can easily be seen in console games, not that obvious in movies.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 7 2007, 12:22 AM

I can only see the grain if i am very close like less than 4 feets, but not when i am 10 feets away. As for console, havent try it yet, but movie looks ok though. May be because the console's game is sharper than movie source thats why the jagginess is more obvious. I got to agree that SXRD PQ is not as good as plasma & LCD, but the size/price is really attractive, too bad its not for me because i cant afford to keep my living room dark all the time. So when is your Hitachi arrive? May be u should do a quick review after tested it out.

Even at 8 ft away I can still see the grains. But for plasma, the noise will almost be invisible at those distance. I'm still trying to get the best deal out of the Hitachi...most places selling 2100+CAD...i want to get it at 2000CAD

PS: 50" 1080p SXRD is just a little more...but really no feel for RP

EDIT: w00t, best price for hitachi is 2100CAD shipped + 7% tax that's still cheaper than 2000CAD + 14% tax (if i buy from my province)

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 7 2007, 06:41 AM

Heard that all PS3 games doesn't have 4X AA by default for all games unlike the XBOX 360 but honestly, I do see slight jaggies on my XBOX 360 on my LCD, I guess they need to bump 4X to 8X to eliminate the jaggies once and for all but with 8X AA, I guess no next-gen consoles can run without a big impact on the framerates.

no idea, but the graphics is actually very good. It is just alot worse on RP. I'm actually a little hesitant to pick up the plasma due to the burn in issue, I'm wondering if it'd be ok for gaming.

Plasma is NOT OK for gaming.

Yes, it is not advisable to use plasma for gaming. But, my friend didnt bother abt it. He is playing his PS2 via plasma for more than 2 yrs. No prob. Or maybe he is lucky.

oh really? didnt plasma have picture shift? So far I've read alot about IR, which is quite normal and I have seen it myself on a Pioneer. But it doesnt last long and the next min I look at it, the IR is already gone. I do plan to use my TV for all sorts of things and really, I dont believe watching movie with black boarders for a few hours doesn't have any problems but playing games for the same amount of hours would have problems hope I'm right

EDIT: btw, how obvious is the picture shift?

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 8 2007, 06:35 AM

I dont think u can realise the picture shift, as it will only move in nanometers. And i dont think it will help in all situation, imagine any still image with 1 inch x 1 inch color block, unless the picture shift kau kau, the middle part of the color block will be always there.

LCD is cleaner but if you look at the roofs and the river banks, the Plasma excels here because it has more shades of gray and the ability to display deep black levels. Of course, frankly speaking, it's a minor issue, I'll choose a LCD anytime.

They just shift it a few pixels away. BTW, go plasma la. Be the pioneer

I read the hitachi manual...it only shift 1 pixel per row/column. I've tried reproducing this with a 1920 X 1080 wall paper. I made the picture move up by 1 pixel, then down by 1 pixel, then down by 1 pixel, and finally up by 1 pixel back to center. The image "picture shift" was done in every 5 seconds (Hitachi has setting from 5 mins and onwards i think)...as far as the slideshow is concerned, it is noticeable...but if the picture moves every 5 mins, I'd probably not notice it. Pioneer is not the leading brand AFAIK, Fujitsu is - Hitachi is a partner of Fujitsu

When I get the TV, i'm gonna do a pre-calibration and leave it facing the wall and break it in for 6-7 days staright (200hours), with some time breaks of course. I'll start using it after that. I noticed that only "some" games are a concern for serious IR. Especially those that display a particular pattern of image for long period of time (CS, and some other FPS games). While I was playing Untold Legends yesterday, as well as motorstorm demo, I noticed that the game will take a break itself (go into save menu, loading screen, and etc) in every 10-20 mins. So I'd think those "HUDs" images will not have seriously ill effect on the TV. Btw, I game no more than a few hours in a day (maybe 6 MAX)...I can't stand lying on the bed playing games and wasting time whole day, and I'll automatically take a break once in awhile. Good to have some self control

@tong
That's true, I think the picture shift is useless if u are displaying a solid block of color at a particular location

noticed that alamak changed his westinghouse lcd, hoho! No more the audio-freak alamak, he has become the HT freak xd

So u finally got yourself a Hitachi? Enjoy and keep us update!

no I havent received it, I'm still waiting for the refund on the LCD TV before I could order it...otherwise my CC will explode

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Jan 9 2007, 02:09 PM

After going through many rounds of survey to compare between LCD and Plasma, finally my choice still go to Plasma. My observation was better PQ, natural & realistics colours and also clear & crisp fast moving pictures.

Again, some of my friends think LCD is better but at the end it still comes to individual preference.

Yes, u have made the RIGHT choice !!
I have to agree with u. Plasma is BEST for movies.

Once there is sales man told me that Hitachi product no good and dont buy any plasma because its out dated. I then ask him that if plasma is so outdated, then can he sell me cheap cheap like CRT price since both are also outdated. He is speechless, than i walk out from that shop and will never return.

Initially I've the similar thought that "plasma is out dated". But after I did the real close comparison and many rounds of survey, then I believe what my eye have seen is the right choice.

42" 1080p plasma will be launching this year. I suppose there is no reason to wait since there will still be no 1080p HD broadcast yet.

I happen to discover something very interesting today. I noticed that it is actually easier to see if an LCD TV has banding with the TV turned off instead of when it is turned on. If you have the screen turned off and look at it side ways (with some ambient light as you will need the reflection), you should be able to see some darker streaks and some lighter color ones. Those will be the spots that would cause different brightness.

1080p plasma is going to cost u a nuke bro! And something off topic, why i change your avatar to black and white, didnt realise that at first.

Coz there was a time where my sig was also black/grey, just wanted to match the theme

I'm having second thought on the Hitachi TV. I called them 2 times asking for some concerns and they kept on giving me bull shit...I heard that even Pioneer does that......god...I hate buying stuff nowadays.

What concerns?

the flickering issue. I need to know if they can truely fix it...if they can't fix the problem, i'm not buying their TV. The issue had been raised 3 months ago yet they dont have a solution to it.

Walau we got alot of problem buying display units nowadays

plasma is something i will avoid for sure because of its screen burn issue

lcds seems like having banding issues ...

How about that 2 new technology , LaserTV and AMOLED ... i am waiting for thoose two to be out , this fellas has no refresh rate, flickering or screen burn issues i heard

i am hoping the price is not that expensive than the current one

edit

double post

This post has been edited by jaya_pc87: Jan 10 2007, 10:46 AM