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 INSURANCE TALK, ok let start

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lcl832002
post Mar 9 2009, 04:46 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Mar 8 2009, 07:17 PM)
Lately, moderating team found that there are lot of topic on insurance related issue which cross linked one to another which resulted redundancy and duplicating answer and discussion in between, so in order to concentrate general issue related to insurance, in the future, this thread will be served as insurnace general talk issue for any discussion for insurance related manner mainly because it holds most of discussion and information.

Specific topic still being allowed which talk about special and specific condition. But forumers can do a favour by posting general issue in this thread which not only ease for reading, posting and discussion, it also will be benefitted to all as a platform of source of information regarding insurance.

Currently, most previous insurance topics are being closed, so that traffic of discussion being diverted to this topic, but any TS or forumers can PM moderator if really needing those thread to be re-opened or merged into this thread or any other reason.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks.
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Ok...

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Mar 8 2009, 11:58 PM)
All,

Let me REPEAT what I told many people before:

1) Insurance is NOT savings.

2) Insurance is NOT a substitute for emergency fund.  It does not cover ALL financial emergencies.

3) If you do not have 3 to 6 months of expense as emergency fund, you are spending too much money.

4) If you are not saving 10% to 15% of your gross income, you CANNOT afford your current level of expense / life style.  Aka, you are spending TOO MUCH money.

So, if after paying for insurance, you NO LONGER save 10% to 15% of your gross income, you CANNOT afford the insurance.

We have a lot of YOUNG and NAIVE people that blah blah blah: we will NEVER lose our jobs for a long time.  We could always find a new job and so on.  Then, they find out how wrong they are during a recession.  And, this is a VERY BIG and BAD recession heading our way NOW.

A) They find out that insurance does not help them to pay for food when they have NO INCOME.

B) They find out that they have to TERMINATE insurance because they have NO EMERGENCY FUND to pay for insurance.

Insurance agent's main job is to SELL INSURANCE.  Some of them are good enough to check whether you can afford and should buy the insurance to begin with.  But, they ONLY make money when you buy insurance.  So, buyer beware.

Insurance is ONE of the largest purchase in a person's life.  You EARN your money in the hard way.  So, spend it WISELY.

Dreamer
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I agree with you that "Insurance is ONE of the largest purchase in a person's life. You EARN your money in the hard way. So, spend it WISELY".


QUOTE(wkf @ Mar 9 2009, 02:51 AM)
thanks dreamer yr advise....  the insurance co are fallen now because of they invested in those risky investment.  their main source of income should be premium charged, but they are in trouble now because of the big loss on the investment they took.  so aia may be sold out if its parent co got better offer from any interested co.  what do u think?
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We must understand that the problems faced by AIG in US don't have anything to do with its insurance businesses. AIG in USA is still earning money but it is not earning fast enough to cover the losses incurred by AIG's Financial Products Unit in London... If there is something wrong with its insurance businesses, do you think that other insurance companies or financial institutions will be interested in taking over them? I am just telling the truth...


QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Mar 9 2009, 04:43 AM)
wkf,

I BELIEVE normal insurance are quite safe since they are HIGHLY regulated in Malaysia.  But, many people will be hit on Investment Linked Policy.

Dreamer
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Yes, you are right, dreamer... Every insurance business is still growing except for ILP and motor insurance...


This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 9 2009, 04:51 AM
lcl832002
post Mar 9 2009, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 9 2009, 11:47 AM)
Every insurance business is still growing except for ILP and motor insurance?

Interesting, please explain ?
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For motor insurance, everyone with a vehicle has to buy it. However, many people have difficulty in renewing their vehicles especially lorries. Why? Please read my post titled WHY IS IT VERY HARD TO RENEW MOTOR INSURANCE (THIRD PARTY LIABILITY) IN 2009?.

For ILP, the world economy now is in crisis. This situation will affect the returns of investments. Most of us are not high risk takers especially during the time world economy is in trouble.. People who can't take high risk will not consider buying it. As a result, this group of people will prefer traditional life insurance plans which offer guaranteed features. Therefore, ILP will be affected significantly. But, for life insurance plans other than ILP are generally growing in terms of new cases.

Please correct me if I am wrong...
lcl832002
post Mar 9 2009, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(Colaboy @ Mar 9 2009, 09:15 PM)
Motor vehicle insurance is the best selling product in any of the GI company, just that its not a profitable
to the company because of the high claim ratio. 3rd party is hard to renew?? I doubt that, just go to Kurnia
they will insured any cars & lorries.
ILP is an Insurance Plan with Investment features.

1)Your client are paying the premium monthly, therefore they are doin dollar cost average which the current
economic condition will not effect. For my point of view it's even better because they are buying the units at a cheaper rate

2)There are multiple fund which are provided by most of them company, if most of them are conservetive why dont go for Bond fund.
They can choose the fund option according to their own risk tolerence.

High risk: Equity Fund
Medium risk: Manage / Money Market Fund
Low Risk: Bond Fund
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Please read PERAKAN VOICE. Hope you know Mandarin.

For ILP, from what I know, ILP is a good plan provided that no riders are attached to it as the premiums of the riders are not fixed. They will affect the investment value of the ILP in the long run. If we attach a lot of riders to it, the ILP may lapse in the future if the cash value is not enough to cover the increase in premiums of the riders and the insurance charges as they increase as we get older. To avoid this situation, policyholders have to pay extra premium. How I know this? I heard a lot of complaints about their ILPs from many policyholders not only from AIA and Prudential...

Please correct me if I am worng.

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 9 2009, 09:04 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 9 2009, 10:52 PM

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One of my client's mother says that all the brochures distributed by Great Eastern to its agents are not free.

Can anyone tell me whether it is true?

Thanks
lcl832002
post Mar 10 2009, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(Colaboy @ Mar 10 2009, 04:16 AM)
sorry .  . . cant understand mandarin lolz
well actually it's very subjective regarding ILP easy to lapse
all depends on the agent how they quote the policy in the 1st hand
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You can ask your friends who know Mandarin to read for you... biggrin.gif
lcl832002
post Mar 11 2009, 01:29 AM

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QUOTE(bbjslee @ Mar 11 2009, 01:37 AM)
Yes you have to buy the printed brochures.

However you can d/l for free from GE's agent website and print it yourself at your own cost.
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Thanks for your info... smile.gif
lcl832002
post Mar 11 2009, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 11 2009, 11:36 PM)
Both products is around the same. Just that AIA's plan takes care of my needs now while GE's plan takes care of my needs in later life so they can't give me as much coverage as AIA for now. Eg:-

Hospitalization
GE - RM 720k lifetime limit (RM 90k limit annually)
AIA - RM 300k lifetime limit (RM 90k limit annually)

CI, Death & TPD
AIA - RM 100k
GE - CI - RM 100k, Death & TPD ard RM 50k-100k (sum assured to grow 5%/yr up to 20yrs)

Premium for both plans is RM 200/mth. And I feel the AIA plan suits me better NOW cz if in future I wanna increase my coverage, I can just top up. Of course, the catch is that I must be healthy.
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Can you tell me the name of the plan from AIA?

Please feel free to read my blog if you are still not confident with AIA. Just click here.

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 11 2009, 10:50 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 11 2009, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(untouchable @ Jan 11 2009, 12:18 AM)
hi i dunno if im at the right sub forum

pls do move if im wrong

lets say i wanna take

life insurance
36 critical illness insurance
personal accident
health and medical insurance

how much is the annual premium???

dun have to be underwriter specific, jus average can aredi

or u can share wat insurance u have and how much you are paying and ammount insured

i would like to know the average ammount, cant seem to find this in other threads,it would be good to have a number of ppl contribute to this section to have a general overview

thanks
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Life insurance - RM 300,000
36 critical illnesses - RM 50,000
Personal accicent - RM 200,000 to RM 300,000
Medical card - RM 60,000 annual limit, RM 200,000 lifetime limit

Monthly premium around around RM 310.
lcl832002
post Mar 11 2009, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 12 2009, 12:07 AM)
Erm...the AIA agent just told me that it's an ILP. The plan covers lady cancers as well. For disability, it will pay RM 10k/yr after 2nd year till age 65.
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I seldom sell ILP to my propects because I know its weaknesses. If you are only care about protection, you can buy a plan like mine. I bought it when I am 24 years old.

My plan is as follows:
i) Whole life insurance RM 300,000. When I am 57 years old, I can surrender it at RM 120,512 (guaranteed). Or stop paying premium and still get the protection of RM 233,100, instead of RM 300,000, until I reach 100 years old.
ii) Medical card - annual limit RM 60,000, lifetime limit RM 200,000.
iii) Personal accident - RM 200,000 (death benefit) to RM 300,000 (serious disability benefit), RM 2,000 annually for each accident (medical reimbursement).
iv) Critical illness - RM 50,000.

My monthly premium is RM 306 only.

What do you think of my insurance plan? Just for sharing. I don't buy ILP because I can use the money to invest in gold, shares and others. So, my insurance plan is purely for protection only.
lcl832002
post Mar 11 2009, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(chew_ronnie @ Mar 12 2009, 12:33 AM)
Actually in Malaysia, AIA is not affected as all insurance companies in M'sia are regulated by Bank Negara Msia. So dun worry at all.

Do some shopping around and if you need my assistance, do pm or email chew_ronnie@hotmail.com

Cheers,
Ronnie
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Thanks for your honest words about AIA... I think insurance agents must be ethical like you. We should never say the other insurance companies are not good. In fact, we all are working in the same industry. So, it is pointless we say bad thing about one another...
lcl832002
post Mar 12 2009, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(chew_ronnie @ Mar 12 2009, 12:59 AM)
lcl832002,

There is no right or wrong in ILP or Traditional plans as i've mentioned earlier in another post. To me, ILP plans are for pure protection, and i dont normally talk about returns. Returns please go for unit trust. There is no such thing as killing 2 birds with 1 hand in insurance policies i.e cant have high returns and high coverage.

Frankly speaking on your coverage, everything is ok except Critical Illness. Let me ask you this, what can you do with RM50K assuming once diagnosed with a cancer or stroke. I bet RM50K will be used up in just half a year buying supplementary food and paying for your installments. Do get some upgrade on this matter friend.


Added on March 12, 2009, 12:01 am

No worries at all cos AIG can face this issue, I believe there is a tendancy for other insurance companies to face the same issue, just a matter of timing and management. So good luck
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Maybe I am a conservative person. So, I prefer whole life and endowment plans as they give me something that is practical, realistic and not influenced by the performance of the market. As I am still young and healthy, I just bought RM 50,000 last time when my income was not stable yet. I will increase the critical illness coverage soon.
lcl832002
post Mar 12 2009, 01:36 AM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 12 2009, 01:30 AM)
May I know what's the name of your plan? My budget is RM 200 only. Can't afford to spend more..

I also want a protection ONLY plan. However, I'm given the choice of the ILP or the traditional plan ONLY from AIA. The traditional plan does not include hospitalization. If I want hospitalization, I have to buy it separately and it's burned every year. So, I thought why not put it in ILP since I'll get to claim more when I'm alive. Other + points are such as CI is extended to 100 years, compared to 88 years in traditional plan and I'll get straight RM 100k for diagnosis of CI instead of RM 30k for traditional plan. The agents from GE and Prudential straight proposed me ILP.
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We call it as Wholelife Plus Non Par (WLNPP).

If you are 24 years old, non-smoker, male and working in office (insurance budget, RM 200 per month):

your plan can be as follows:
i) Whole life insurance RM 100,000.
ii) Medical card - annual limit RM 90,000, lifetime limit RM 300,000.
iii) Personal accident - RM 200,000 (death benefit) or RM 300,000 (serious disability benefit), RM 2,000 annually for each accident (medical reimbursement). This plan is an offer. So, you may not be able to buy it in the future.
iv) Critical illness - RM 50,000.

Your monthly premium is RM 164 only. It is adjustable to suit your insurance needs and monthly budget.

If the coverage for critical illness is changed to RM 100,000, instead of RM 50,000 which you think is not enough, the monthly premium is RM 193.

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 12 2009, 01:56 AM
lcl832002
post Mar 12 2009, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 12 2009, 11:51 AM)
hi this plan the critical illness is a rider ?
so will expire right?

i saw AIA quote critical illness can be extended to 100 ?
please explain ? notworthy.gif
interesting leh
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Generally, there are 2 critical illness riders called PCLR and CLR. What is the difference?

For PCLR, its coverage is until 70 years old. For CLR, its coverage is until 100 years old.

Let say you buy a life insurance with sum assured of RM 100,000.
a) If you buy PCLR with sum assured of RM 100,000 and attach it to the life insurance, once you claim RM 100,000 from PCLR, you life insurance RM 100,000 is still there to protect you. In this case, the premium for PCLR is higher than CLR.
b) If you buy CLR with sum assured of RM 100,000 and attach it to the life insurance, once you claim RM 100,000 from CLR, you life insurance RM 100,000 will become RM 0. In this case, the premium for CLR is lower than PCLR.

Can you see the difference? So, if you want to buy CLR, when you buy life insurance, you must make sure that the life insurance covers you until 100 years old. Why? There are several life plans from AIA that cover us until 85 or 88 years old. Let say you are very healthy and you can live until 100 years old. By the time you reach 85 or 88 years old, your life insurance will be surrendered automatically by AIA. Your CLR attaching to it will also terminated by AIA as well.

There is one fact you must know when you buy critical illness. For details, please read A CLAUSE TO WHICH WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION WHEN BUYING A 36 CRITICAL ILLNESSES PLAN.

If you are interested to know more, please pm me or leave a post here. Thanks...
lcl832002
post Mar 12 2009, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 12 2009, 04:09 PM)
i google and got this from  http://www.georgedevan.com/products.htm

Critical Life Rider (CLR)
A unique rider that advances a lump sum from your basic sum assured should you undergo specific surgical operations/procedures or be  diagnosed with critical illness. This money promises you the comfort to see you through the devastating illness.

CLR covers you up to age 100 ; or up to the expiry of the basic policy, whichever is earlier. Its premium is payable during the premium paring period of the basic policy, or up to age 100, whichever is earlier.
PCLR covers you up to age 100; or up to the expiry of the basic policy, whichever is earlier.

An insurance charge which varies with your attained age will be levied for PCLR uo to age 100, or prior termination of the rider, whichever is earlier. PCLR is attachable to only Investment-linked plans.

slightly different version ? please enlighten
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Different? You mean the age 100 for PCLR? The information is already outdated. From the website itself, you will know because it is still using the old AIA logo.
Based on my AIA Sales Illustration System (SIS), PCLR covers us until 70 years old. I am sure about that as I have this plan myself. PCLR can be attached to whole life insurance, not only ILP.

I will not provide wrong facts and figures to you as I have no reason to do so, right... If consumers can understand and get the latest information from website, insurance agents should look for other jobs already... smile.gif

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 12 2009, 03:32 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 12 2009, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 12 2009, 04:54 PM)
a) If you buy PCLR with sum assured of RM 100,000 and attach it to the life insurance, once you claim RM 100,000 from PCLR, you life insurance RM 100,000 is still there to protect you. In this case, the premium for PCLR is higher than CLR.

So in this case if i buy a PCLR and claim RM100,000 for critical illness. When i die i get another RM 100,000 from the life insurance. After I claim the PCLR do i need to still pay the premium ?

thanks
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Yes, you are right. Let say person A buys PCLR and life insurance each with sum assured of RM 100,000. If he is diagnosed with one of the 36 critical illnesses and dies several months later, his family will get RM 200,000 (RM 100,000 [PCLR] + RM 100,000 [life]).

After you claim the PCLR, you still need to pay the premium for your life insurance unless you add a rider called WP/PCLR to your life insurance. It is a waiver of premium. With this rider, after you claim PCLR, you don't have to pay any more the premium of the life insurance.

Remember, PCLR covers us until 70 years old only, unlike CLR...

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 12 2009, 06:12 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 13 2009, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 13 2009, 12:05 PM)
thank you for the explanation  notworthy.gif

another question
let say if i diagnosed with the 36 critical illness  and get paid of RM 100,000.00

in few month later i lost the use of my body due to the same illness for two hand or two leg which cause me to total disable.
will i get the balance of the RM 100,000.00 (my agent said the life insurance cover total disable as well)

btw does AIA policy cover suicide  brows.gif ?

thanks rclxms.gif
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You are welcome ! smile.gif

For AIA Berhad, all traditional life and endowment plans cover death and serious disability (TPD) due to an accident and a critical illness. TPD benefit is given free to standard life. However, TPD benefit is in force only before we reach 60 years old. In other words, if a person becomes disabled due to an accident or a critical illness when he is 62 years old, for example, he will get nothing at all. So, in your case, you will get another RM 100,000 provided that you are not above 59 years old by the time you become disabled due to the same critical illness (TOUCH WOOD).

Yes, commit suicide is also covered by all AIA traditional life and endowment plans only after one year from the issue date. Let say, person A buys a life plan from AIA with an issue date on April 1, 2009. His family will get full compensation from AIA only if he commit suicides after April 1, 2010. If he commits suicide on March 1, 2010, his family will only get back all the premiums paid by him without interest. I think this principle is also applicable to other insurance companies as well.

I hope you have no intention to commit suicide due to economic downturn. Haha... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 13 2009, 01:55 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 13 2009, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 13 2009, 03:18 PM)
interesting ..  one final question
my nominee in my insurance policy is my wife and my wife nominee is me, let say if i involve in a car accident which cause the death of myself and my wife where will this money go to?

i bought these policy when i marry my wife

we do not have any children and do not have a will smile.gif
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In your case, from I know, both of your assets including the insurance proceeds will become an estate. Both of your estate will be used to settle both of your debts like goverment tax, if there is any. After all your debts have been settled, your estate will be distributed according to the Distribution (Amendment) Act 1997 in West Malaysia and Sarawak if you are non-Muslims. For details, please read my blog titled Estate Planning and the Distribution (Amendment) Act 1997. You can click here too.

So, it is very important to make nomination when you buy life insurance and other plans. A will doesn't make sure your nominees will receive the insurance proceeds fast if you never make any nomination. So, before it is too late, please do some changes to your insurance plans like adding your parents' names as well. If both of you already have a lot of assets, it is better for you and your wife to write a will.

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 13 2009, 09:55 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 14 2009, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 14 2009, 12:54 AM)
Is this a traditional plan? I've asked my agent and he said there's only two types of plan in the market:- traditional and ILP. He insisted that no matter what name they give the plan, in the end, it'll be a traditional or ILP plan  hmm.gif
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Ya, it is a traditional life plan. To be specific, it is called whole life insurance. It is different from endowment plans.

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 14 2009, 12:04 AM
lcl832002
post Mar 14 2009, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 14 2009, 01:24 AM)
Thanks  smile.gif
May I know till what age that plan cover?
Being a traditional plan, does it mean that it's protected from market changes? I mean, do I get more return/more protected from inflation?
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The plan covers us until 100 years old. That's why it is called as whole life insurance. It depends. For whole life insurance, everything is guaranteed including its surrender value. However, you can't expect to get a lot of return. For endowment plans, if the insurance company earns a lot of profit, then you will get a dividend from 4 % to 7 %. For ILP, part of your premium will be allocated to buy certain funds you want. In this case, its investment value will be heavily influenced by market changes. Can you see the difference?


QUOTE(ivanswk @ Mar 14 2009, 02:29 AM)
i am confuse,
so my life insurance will go my my estate or my wife estate ?
since i nominated my wife but she also pass away the same time

if it go my estate then is ok but if it go my wife estate then my mother cannot claim on her estate, my parent inlaw will get it rite ?

if i am correct due to i purchase this policy when i marry wife, the policy become a trust, i cannot revoke her without her consent  sweat.gif

notworthy.gif
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Estate here means frozen assets. Once our assets are frozen, we can't touch them any more until our debts are settled. Let say, a person's total asset is RM 1000,000 and his total debt is RM 500,000. He has to settle his debts RM 500,000 first. In other words, his family will only get RM 500,000, instead of RM 1000,000. If he dies without a will, the process of transferring his assets to his loved ones will take more than several years and his assets will be distributed according to the Distribution Act. If he dies with a will, then the process will be shorter and his assets will be distributed according his will. In sum, a will only smooths the process of transferring his assets to his loved ones after all his debts are settled.

For insurance proceeds, it can be considered as estate if he doesn't make any nomination. If he does, then the insurance proceeds will be received by his family from the insurance companies in less than one week provided that his family has sent all the required documents like death cert to the insurance company. This is the beauty of life insurance compared to other financial products.

I hope you can understand better now... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 14 2009, 01:27 PM
lcl832002
post Mar 16 2009, 12:19 AM

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QUOTE(rednails @ Mar 15 2009, 11:21 PM)
Thanks again for the info. Yes, I can see some differences thr. For whole life insurance, I suppose hospitalization is not included?
One more thing, what's an endownment plan? What are the cons of an endownment plan?
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Hospitalization is covered only if we have medical card, critical illness or personal accident plan, depending on the reason a person is hospitalized. No life insurance will cover our medical bills for sure.

The premium-paying-period for endowment plans is much shorter than whole life insurance. For AIA Berhad, it can be 8, 10, 15, 20 and 55 years.

When the period is shorter, of course, the premium for endowment plans is much higher than whole life insurance even though both plans have the same amount of sum assured.

The sum assured for whole life insurance is fixed unless you add premium. Whereas, the sum assured for endowment plans will increase depending on the performance of AIA Berhad. If AIA Berhad performs very badly, a dividend of 4 % is payable to its policyholders. If AIA Berhad performs very well, a dividend of 7 % is payable to its policyholders. The premium for endowment plans is guaranteed to be fixed.

The return for endowment plans is not guaranteed but it must be at least 4 % for AIA Berhad no matter how bad AIA Berhad performs. For Investment Linked Plans, the return can be zero or negative if the funds you choose perform very badly.

Endowment plans are more for saving for child education and retirement. It still gives protection at the same time but not very high like whole life insurance. So, the return for endowment plans will be higher than whole life insurance. However, the surrender value you get when you surrender your endowment plan is not guaranteed, unlike whole life insurance.

So, I will suggest people to buy whole life insurance first as it gives more protection to them. After that, if they want to save money when they earn higher income in the future, endowment plans can be considered.

I hope it helps... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by lcl832002: Mar 16 2009, 12:24 AM

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