Hi guys,

I'm having some kind of weird problem that I cannot figure out the source.....

My water tank is overflowing like waterfall dei...not sure if it's related, but it happened right after the maintenance by SYABAS in gombak area (batu caves).

Went to the bumbung to check, panjat here panjat there, found the tangki..opened the tangki, checked the pelampung, ok i think it's time to change the pelampung..damn hard to unscrew it..

So the process of changing the pelampung went well eventually. I thought I have solved it..but after a few hours, started overflowing again.....

Went back to the bumbung, suddenly tengok-tengok, the tangki full (above normal level).. Turned off main pipe, opened some taps to reduce the water level in the tangki..then checked the pelampung back again.. here are some pictures,


1) Checking the newly bought and installed pelampung set... Tangki is being filled..




2) Tried hand-stopping the pelampung, good, no water dripping...




3) Water automatically stopped, meaning no dripping. confirmed pelampung ok..




4) Now the water level still rising, until the pelampung also tenggelam....started overflowing again...




Now i really pening what could've caused the overflowing problem....I suspect it's the non-return valve.. But, well.. i don't know where it is, don't know what it looks like..and too many pipe connection...lol..

Can someone help me pleaseeee....tension gila!



------------------------- UPDATE ---------------------------------

Went back again to the roof, to take some pictures of the pipe connection just in case some one can help pinpoint the problem.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO THE ROOF, SO VERY THE MESSY...NEVER KNEW SO MANY SAMPAH SARAP HERE LEFT BY THE OLD CONTRACTORS..ISH ISH ISH


1) Is the red circled the NON RETURN VALVE? The black pipe is the main pipe from outside into the tank.





2) Is this too?





If the non-return valve may be the cause, how much would it cost? can D.I.Y ke???? easy?? if can, I might do it myself... hujung bulan no gaji yet...





The flow of the piping:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)






-----------------------------------------------------------------UPDATE 1ST NOVEMBER 2015-----------------------------------------------------------------


So I finally went to the hardware shop and bought two Check Valve (3/4") size..

Started to operation roof!! While going to the hardware, opened all taps to empty the water from the tank.. Then started opening the first suspected Check Valve.. It was soooo ketat to open had to use extra force.. I thought that was hard, but removing the previous pipe tape (the white tape) was even harder!!!!!

Here's the pic of the old check valve.. I THINK THE SPRING IS NOT WORKING ANYMORE. PUSHED EITHER SIDE, NOTHING MOVED. SO YEAH I GUESS THE SPRING IS NOT FUNCTIONING ANYMORE


Front





Back




And here's the pic of the new Check Valve.. The spring works wonderful..







Changed two suspected Check Valve to avoid double work.. I accidentally left one of the old check valved on the roof, malas nak ambil lagi.. later ambil lah..haha

Cost?? RM30 for one Check Valve (made in italy woi!!), and RM3 for the white tape..total with GST = RM67.30 (IINM)..

This is the first time my operation roof.. Hopefully with the lack of skills, I am able to solve my problem. Checked at the joints, alhamdulillah no leaking or evidence of water outside of the valve.. I hope the connection is tight and secure..

Tank is still filling though. I'll update if it still overflows....hopefully not!!!!! Touchwood!!

This post has been edited by one1002: Nov 1 2015, 02:29 PM

chane to new set. the one in the picture looks old

easiest n cheapest way?

bend the arm downward

and tie some empty mineral water bottle at the end

problem solved

zero cost

put small bucket under the outlet, then wait n see if any leaks at the water outlet.

is that the only piping into the tank?

change what to new set? If the arm set, it is new set. Just bought and installed yesterday... if the bola, still useable, tried rendam in water, no holes no bubbles, so still can use.. =D

Ya, if you see in the picture, the arm is already bent twice.. I bent it before installing.. However, even I bend it further down, it still will overflow, double triple check the pelampung, no water leak from the main pipe to the tangki, ceiling is not wet, no water dripping from the pelampung.. anyway, i tried your suggestion, same thing haha..


Hi, thanks for the reply, unfortunately, there are no water leaks. I went around the tangki, bend downwards to check for any water residue on the floor (ceiling), nope..nothing..no leaks confirmed!

For the connection, I have updated the photos in my first post.

This post has been edited by one1002: Oct 25 2015, 12:20 PM

bend it more like up to 60^ angle

since it doesn't have any adjusting screw, that's the only way to do it

or you can open up the valve and change the rubber diaphgram inside

that round rubber thing is only 50 sen at most maybe

ah, since you showed the 1-way check valve, i know your prob liao

the check valve got problem. u try to switch off the bypass

i see you have a bypass system. very clever

did u change the bola pelampung or not, it looks used

the check valve is around rm 20. depending on size.

usually, this type of check valve, the spring inside corroded and not strong enough to push the plate to close the valve

thus water gets into the tank from the check valve itself

This post has been edited by lucifah: Oct 25 2015, 12:20 PM

Could you please tell me while the water overflow, where is the water source into the tank?

That pelampung did you chage together the valve?

Lol, i no idea what you talking about hahaha..still learning... Check valve = Non-Return Valve = Red Circled in the picture??? Same thing? How do I switch off the bypass?

Sorry Lucifah for asking these, trying to learn few things before I call plumber...hahaha..

Nope, used back the bola.. Bola still useable..sudah rendam dalam air, bounced back like gila high..so still can use..check for holes or leaks, none found! =D

This is what I suspect too...so I think better to change the whole set of valve right?

Hi, this is the reason I created this thread. Because I myself cannot figure out the water source into the tank (after the bola pelampung has stopped the water inlet). If you notice on my pictures in the first post, the pelampung set works wonderfully well. No dripping.. So I think, there must be some back-flow water coming back into the tank..hence it's overflowing.

Unfortunately, I have very very very limited knowledge in plumbing works..still learning..googling..etc.. =D

Bola pelampung is still usable, so I did not change it..just the arm.. In the first picture, the brass (tembaga) thing is new..made in England tau..haha

i saw your pics got 2 check valve and 2 outlet pipes, so ayam confused why you have two

need to understand how your piping flow is baru can give idea

last time i got this problem to..in ma toilet...change pelampung also same ...problem is inside the 1st pic got 1 rubber part worn out aready

OK Lucifah, I have prepared the piping flow for you..haha

1)


2)


3)


4)


5) The overall layout

I think 1st picture with red circle is the problem

It fails hence water back flow into your tank.

I think your problem is on the 1st 2 pic with the red circle. The steel pipe is suppose to be the outlet and the black pipe is suppose to be the inlet? (If i see it correctly)

How can inlet and outlet be connected. There should be only 1 inlet to your tangki that is the one connected to the float. If you need another inlet connection to your tangki, then it should end with another float.
if your outlet also connected to the inlet, for sure it will over flow becos no safety cut off.

Is that a new connection? The red circled joint.

TS,

you did 2 bypass for master bedroom and ground floor correct?

cheap solution is to reduce the water pressure from main intake outside the house (near syabas meter)

expensive solution is to change the non-return valve to a higher/better grade.

I suspect the problem is caused by increased water pressure from syabas main which affects the return valve..

you have two outlets which have the check valve

either one may caused the problem


this is a spring check valve



i always prefer a swing type check valve



the spring check valve got a plastic disc attached to the spring. like some forumer said, the backflow pressure is too strong that it pushed the valve open

This post has been edited by lucifah: Oct 25 2015, 05:29 PM

pakai level sensor lah...abis crita...

I think so too...but, in the third pic also have the non-return valve. The problem is I don't understand why outlet no. 3 going back to the main pipe into the tank..any idea?

Yup, the non-return valve? yes black pipe is the inlet (from SYABAS PIPE METER outside into tank).. You asked how can inlet and outlet be connected, this one I cannot help you haha..

This is not a new connection. More than 6-7 years already since the last contractor went up to the roof, so I can confirmed that the piping was OK, no problem. Only happened on Tuesday, right after SYABAS maintenance.. I suspect the high water pressure from the main intake (Syabas) caused the non-return valve to go kaput..

But the layout of piping makes me .

I don't know why, especially for the outlet no. 3, is going back to the mainpipe into the tank. This one really . LOL.


Call me idiot, but I don't know about bypass... care to explain a bit?? haha...

Yea I have reduced the water pressure, closed the tap by half.. See if it makes any difference. But long term, gotta change the return valve... When you say expensive, how expensive?


Hey lucifah, thx man for the tip..

What's the diff between swing and spring? what's the difference in cost pulak??

By the way, in your previous posts, you said , why you said clever? Can explain abit? hehe sorry bro..i'm intrigued to know...

this setup usually means you are bypassing the water tank

the water in the tank only flows out if there is no water supply from SYABAS

so if there is water supply, you get the stronger water pressure from SYABAS pumps rather than gravity feed from your roof top water tank

this one is more complicated as you need a motorized valve to stop the water supply once the water level reaches certain level

once i kena like this. simple issue is tank cover bend inward pushing down the pelampung when its close so the inlet wont stop. i just bend down the pelampung arm inward.

ahhh I see...i understand now...thanx!!


Ya at first I thought the same too...I closed the cover, and placed my ear directly on the side of the tank.. I hear no water dripping..so this one can rule out already..

Anyway, I have to wait until weekend only can do DIY..no time la working..

Will try to update how it goes!

clean inside the float valve.. maybe got debris inside

Pelampung not big enough. & try clean the stop valve. After a long period of time, they stainted and difficult to push in.

As what lucifer mentioned, the issue lies with your one-way valve. Instead of visualizing the water flowing out of the tank and into the main pipe, you should visualize it backwards, say main pipe water flowing into the tank outlet pipes (stopped by the one-way valve).

Its a piping system that says in case no pressure from mains, tank water pressure will take over. If got main pressure, it will top up your tank and bypass the tank water usage for outlet 1 and 3. Since one of the one-way valve is faulty, then system fails and it will flow main water into the tank non-stop.

One of the two valves is faulty but my best advice is to replace both to save time from testing which valve is faulty. Just go to any hardware shop and ask for one-way valve with the correct size (measure your pipe diameter). Also, my advice on replacing both the valves is to sumbat outlet 1 and 3 from inside the tank (with a thick cloth and must be tight) and off main pipe tap. Drain the water in outlet 1 and 3 (Just open any tap to outlet 1 and 3). Do valve replacement with two pipe wrench. Don't forget to apply fresh Plumbing tape (white tape).

Too bad my house tanki piping system isn't like that and whenever water shortage, all the taps connected directly to the mains will run dry.

maybe u can try tie some light rope or benang to tank outlet for outlet 1 and 3 inside the tank for simple visual inspection of water back flow due to failing valve..if any failed then better replace them both

Its a good way to test but considering risking more overflowing water from the tank, might as well get it done before your water bill sky rockets.

saja je lah..u think level sensor cheap meh..

u can use float switch for slightly cheaper option. rm 100 nia mah flaotswitch

advance tech maa..

My problem was a bit different from yours.

Last time, my reservoir tank got leak, causing the water to FOREVER enter the tank and for 3 months, my water bill skyrocketed like crazy. Actually a very tiny crack at the bottom near the edge. Solution: put the silicon sealant (water proof) at it and problem solved.

But then again, it happened again. This time i suspected my water pump which i put near the main had caused the water pressure to hammer the tank and perhaps the check valve couldn't stand it. Some more, my water pump was faulty and in the end, i removed the water pump permanently.

Problem solved till today.

So yeah, i guess the water pressure being too strong is highly likely the main cuplrit.

You can go and saman SYABAS nao.

hi tauke. i think my house water tanks need servicing. u do house calls right?

my charges are exorbitantly high

i charge by the hour

no gst though

But if there is no water from SYABAS, the water would flow back to SYABAS main line?
of course i think SYABAS water meter is single way as well.

BTW the sketch of water flow i wrong i guess.
one way valve for master bedroom is wrongly indicated.

LOL. if it flows back to SYABAS main line, then the mter will run backwards, and SYABAS may end up owing you money

Its obvious the float ball has punctured and there is water inside.

Btw if the house is still under insurance protection, overflow & pipe burst is covered ... so better keep the receipt if u get someone to fix it

rumah TS ni air tank dia kat atas siling. kalau bocor .....habislah....no need 1 year .. air tangki can jatuh already

almost all house tangki air is on the siling

baru lah tekanan air kuat kerana perbezaan tenaga upaya yang dihasilkan oleh beza ketinggian

chewahhh

teknikal sungguh aku petang ini

This valve might help for my dad's place.
Currently the pump is pushing water to the 2nd floor to the tank, then from tank flow back down.. but the pressure is super weak.
If i make a t before the tank with the outlet of the tank do you think this would help?

can't promise that unless you really understand where to put the check valve and its position

still not solved?

Banyak yang bijak pandai

Nah..I just changed the pelampung valve set and the Check valve.. hahaha


Yeah, that's what I tried when replacing the check valve.. the first check valve (master bedroom) cannot even pushed in. It's stuck.. the second check valve can push in, but just a bit. Not like the new one.. So i just changed both.

Yes sirrrrr!!! I finally figured out the two bypass systems (2 check valves).. It is like a direct flow from Syabas to the Master bedroom and other bedroom.. hehe.. So in outlet 3, it is not running back to main pipe..it is actually from the mainpipe, bypassing the tank and going straight to the other bathroom.


I takut oh to do that later got water inside tank, all overflow inside my house hahahahaa...


yeah, was pain in the A** to open and close main supply at 5.30am before mandi manda..lol..same at night..

Yeah this actually happened after SYABAS Maintenance last week (20th Oct 2015)..after that, straight away overflow...I think the water pressure busted the check valve.. Lagipun, i think it's due time juga to change..

Correct sir.. sorry for the sketch..It is wrongly indicated..actually it is located at the straight pipe from tank going to the master bathroom..not between those two..haha

No sir, already checked the float ball...like i mentioned in a few posts before, I rendam inside water, no bubbles, and when i released it, the ball just pushed back out of the water very high woiii..haha

Hopefully solved lah...still waiting for the tank to fill up..will monitor again..

This post has been edited by one1002: Nov 1 2015, 02:39 PM

UPDATED ON THE 1ST POST, PAGE 1

Goodluck

Just for my information, how long does it usually fill up a water tank from empty?

depends..berapa besar tangki..ts patut cuci tangki sekali..sudah banyak keladak air..u mandi x gatal badan ke?

after replaced the two Check Valve (3/4") size..
overflow problem solved?

thanks ..

yes.. problem solved till now.. haha

Dude. Your plumber fcuked up the water inlet and outlet already. 2 pictures already exposed the problem. One of it is this,



If you link the inlet and outlet, once the tank fills up and stops, the additional pressure will go to the second outler pipe. Assuming second pipe also stops due to normal faucet on/off, the water pressure has to go somewhere, it goes back to tank la. hahaha.

thanks...i also replaced the valve to solved the overflow problem ...

That is the purpose of installing check valve 😅 to prevent backflow....

Haha.. So far after changing those 2 valves, no more overflow as of now.. I considered it as fixed..

WTF...........

why don't install some stopcocks for isolation of certain parts so that can close off parts of the system in case of faults.

also, where is the overflow pipe of the tank? and the drainage pipe of the tank?

incomplete system

hi...what is the saiz of the pelampung of the main tangki?

What do you mean by 'pelampung'? Is it the float?

if you refer to the 3rd photo in 1st page, the black ball on the left is the float. The white gadget is the intake valve that can shut the water flow.

Both are sold separately. Normally, only the intake valve is replaced... only one standard size. To be sure, you measure the pipe diameter, and buy the intake valve to fit the pipe.

Note that the white one in the photo is plastic... you can get a better one made of brass - about RM 25.

The black ball or float, it is attached by turning the ball onto the end of the rod.

yes the float...now have to check out the tank for pipe diameter...brass valve is better? thanks for the recommendation

I am four years too late, lol. An easier way for TS to check is to
1. shut off water supply,
2.drain empty the tank,
3. open back the water supply
4. lift the float to simulate full tank level

if water comes in from the outlet line, it means the check valve is passing.

All check valves will fail at some point in time. The either fail open or stuck in closed position.

Usually there's nothing wrong with the float, and the old one can be reused.

The brass valve is more 'heavy duty'. Worn out rubber rings/seals would caused slow leakage... but if the thin rod, which the float is attached to, broke...

If there's leakage and overflow, and you need to shut the main water supply because the intake valve is faulty, you can remove the valve and take it to the shop.

This way, you break the job into 2 sessions...

The pipe network could be simpler and fail-proof without using any check valves.

The water flow from the mains should branch at ground level, one going up to the tank, the other to the kitchen area at the back of the house.

The connection of the water from the mains to the outlet pipe from the tank is done so that the same tap can have water from either the mains or the tank? It doesn't make sense...

This to me is a clever idea. When the mains pressure is higher than the pressure in the tank (which comes from the liquid height), it will supply water to the bathroom (or whichever tap that is taking water from the tank).
When the water pressure is low, or supply is cut, the water from the tank will flow to the bathroom tap. We all know the water from the tank can be rather low in pressure, which makes installing rain shower impossible.
A second check valve should be installed along the pipe supplying water to the tank so that the water in the tank does not drain down to your neighbour's house via the mains

The disadvantages of such set up are:
1. Water in the tank is hardly replenished since our mains pressure is/should always be high (in an ideal world).
2. Usage of check valves as a form of safeguarding is never a good idea, especially in a area as inaccessible as the tank under the roof.