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 Old house to dream house

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TSphoenixxx
post Oct 21 2015, 12:44 AM, updated 9y ago

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EDIT: realized the house dimension is 24x80, not 24x75

Hi sifus,

Embarking on the next stage of my life... and recently received keys for my "brand new" 40-year old house. It is a 24x80 double-storey link house. I hope this will be my dream home for the next 20-30 years at least and wish to obtain some guidance on my reno journey...

Still at a very early stage... looking to be an extremely daunting task not just on my pocket.

Guidance used:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Below are floor plan, details & budget:

1. Floor Plan
Attached Image Attached Image

2. What I hope to achieve with above budget:
1. Extension (per attached plan - red arrows)
2. Ground floor - retile (hacking the terrazo + tiling)
3. 1st floor - change from parquet to something like laminated flooring which I believe to be cheapest for "wood-feel flooring"
4. Plaster ceiling (both floors)
5. Repainting
6. Bathrooms - retile, change all the hardware
7. First floor bathrooms (Bath 3)- split into two, one for each room.
8. Grills
9. Lighting, fans, air con
10. Possible rewiring (due to age of property) - including adding socket points, concealing wiring
11. Possible repairs... don't anticipate much since I'm basically redoing big chunks of the house... roof maybe
12. Other hidden costs / things I missed out?
13. (edit) solar panel for water heater

3. Problems
1. Ground floor - currently the bathroom is venting out into the Yard (circled) which is really a glorified indoor garden - if I close it up (ie extend the dining area) what's the best way to ventilate the bathroom?
2 & 3. First floor - same problem as ground floor bathroom. Maybe bathroom 3 can be extended all the way to the back together with the rooms, then it will be no issue. For bathroom 2, the extension will surround it leaving no space to ventilate.

Is there anything I missed out? Basically, am trying to get those big-hassle items out of the way first. Will be engaging a few contractors for pricing (please share if you do know of any) and update.

Will try and add pictures soon.

This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Sep 27 2017, 10:36 AM
TSphoenixxx
post Oct 24 2015, 07:08 PM

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Managed to take pictures only today, most days too busy to visit the house. Thanks for all the comments so far, all being taken into consideration.

Edit: not sure why some picture appear rotated. They look correctly rotated on my computer. Sorry for any unintended neck exercise while I figure out what the hell is wrong with my pictures sleep.gif

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This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Sep 27 2017, 10:38 AM
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 7 2015, 08:15 PM

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Thanks all for the replies. Been busy seeing contractors, so nothing really to update here. So far prices range from 120k - 200+k on rough estimates.

Given the option, I would agree to keep the terrazo & parquet however the main concern is only to match the flooring of the new extended areas. The few contractors I've spoken with says new terrazo will be off-colour compared to the existing even after polish.

After getting a better feel of the prices (probably easily 200k) I'm now in cost-cutting mode to try and save some cost for other things (solar, grills, etc etc all not counted yet).

From the original plan, I've decided:
1) not to extend one of the back rooms to preserve the inner yard
2) if possible, maintain flooring - ground & 1st floor
3) not sure if I need 3 phase. There's a 3-phase thread that I've been reading so far but havent really come to a conclusion yet (40 pages sweat.gif ). It seems the safer and costlier way of course is to do 3-phase.

However, there's a potential hidden cost that I've not really factored in - the roof - depending on condition, might be a headache.

QUOTE(halcyon27 @ Nov 7 2015, 06:32 PM)
Congratulations on your journey. I used to live around that area just opposite end side away from the hospital but nearer the mall if I'm guessing it right. This house has character esp upper floors.

A few things to share from what I learnt w double story landed.
1. Tiles for living looks nice but is the main enemy in terms of creature comfort requiring AC to cool during the weekends or early evening unless there's a garden with trees. Broken marble is better for climate control purposes. Look up the thread on Venetian plaster wall by Hachilifestyle. I'm broken marble convert and have used it in my new place. Even in the heat of the afternoon and evening sun, it stays cool and somewhat dryer (less humid) because of what it does by nature (absorb excess humidity) which tiles cannot do.

Yes, I agree and with personal experience too. Marble / terrazo is definitely more cooling than tiles. To save cost, I am requesting samples from contractors to see just how different / off colour they will be compared with current. If acceptable, I'll maintain the terrazo. Otherwise, hard to match tiles (new extension area) with terrazo.


2. If you're where I think you are, you're in luck. The best roof insulation guys is one taman away. When I moved in 7 years ago, my roof started creaking at night when there's strong wind. Next day went to the back and saw that there are roof turbine ventilators. Found out that the guys one Taman away doesn't just sell roof vent solutions, they insulate also and with one of the best. Install a combo of both and you won't regret. They can advise you on how to do. Even better to have them in before installing solar if that's the plan.

Would you mind sharing their details? My house is at an angle to the afternoon sun, eventhough not directly, I think it's gonna get warm.


3. Bathroom tiles must be rough. If you have kids or elderlies in the household, this point cannot be emphasised enough. Heard and know of cases involving ppl, friends or relatives and a couple were tragically fatal. Cotto from jubin BMS is my preferred. Simple test is to ask for cup of plain water and pour over the tile sample. Put your bare foot on it and drag along the length of it. If it feels slippery even if there's grip, it's not up to task. Rough means rough.

Agreed - no debate here.

4.Dark areas can be addressed with natural tubular lighting. They are already available locally. Areas like toilets, walk in wardrobe, stairwell. I was tempted to do one for the kitchen which was always in perpetual darkness.

I have trouble picturing what "natural tubular lighting" is. Not sure if the google images are showing the ones you mean as well. My kitchen, even during daytime is almost pitch black.

5. Mechanical ventilation at strategic places produces cross ventilation ie front-back and bottom-up. Use it to good effect esp by timing it to run early in the am when it's cooler. At night, esp when outside temperature is cooler, it helps by bringing the cool in faster. Remember that a dwelling place is a structure that potentially stores heat. Heat expands outwards e.g. oven. Mechanical ventilation by using extractor fans is fit for purpose. Even clothes dry faster (esp if front load washed). Only time when it's not to be used is when AC is turned on.

I might install a few in the toilets. Will definitely consider if budget allows.

6. Flexible partitioning helps esp dining living. Adds character to those spaces too.

No comment for now.

7. Louvre windows ventilates best. There are styles that allows 4 bottom panes to be close whilst the upper 4 can be open. Separate action.

House comes with the usual push out / pull in windows. Actually prefer these due to less dust gathering on the louvres - not my priority to change tongue.gif

8. Parquet if still in good condition can be polished matte. I've seen it done before to good effect.

Torn on this. I don't really like parquet. Plus, after a while, it starts coming loose especially if you always mop the floor. If cost allows, I prefer laminate for the wooden feel.

9. Vent ground floor toilet, to the back roof using extractor fan and cap. That will draw air in from the yard space rather then it venting out to the yard.

Agreed. The yard is actually awesome, now that I've visited my house a few times. Natural lighting, and a good breeze occasionally. It's the reason why I've decided not to extend the room above it - to avoid losing the airwell. Save some money too.

First floor extension is easier to do in the next Taman than yours. Think you'll have a serious challenge with the local council. Next Taman is FT.

This is the next part I'm worried about. In terms of time, and potential grease money. I suspect that's how things work as the normal proper way will probably leave my application permanently at the bottom of the pile. I plan to ask the contractor to do it for me since this is a major renovation. They might have more experience. And yes, mine is in Selangor.
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This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Nov 7 2015, 08:31 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 7 2015, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(windwong @ Oct 24 2015, 08:56 PM)
1. I will extend the groundfloor toilet to the wash area and vent to backlane. Access utility from the dinning. Ill even consider to access toilet from dinning> utility > toilet.

Have considered changing location of groundfloor toilet to the back. Not main concern now, only if budget allows. Otherwise will leave as is.

Knock the kitchen dinning wall to make one open space with island/peninsula in btw.

Exactly what I'm doing. It will really open up the space, just picturing it makes me feel happy already tongue.gif

2. I will remodel the masterbedroom toilet to the side. Not hard as you are already doing a whole new room above your porch. the existing toilet will be a good spot for walking closet. Also, brand new toilet in your master will be a highlight

Doing this as well.

3. for the 2 smaller bathroom remodelling, I will hesitate to touch cause U are gaining only little usable squarefoot but the work will be huge. I will leave it and spend the money just on re-tiling, changing the vanity and toilet bowl. give them refresh but not total remodel.
Upstairs toilet might extend together with the room. Original plan wanted to make 2 bathrooms out of it, now I think I'm just going to make it bigger and leave it as sharing to save cost.

By the way, nice house! do update us on the progress
Definitely will share on the progress. Now planning phase, nothing much to show yet. icon_rolleyes.gif
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This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Nov 7 2015, 08:26 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 9 2015, 04:06 PM

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Seriously thanks alot sifu halcyon for all the tips... a lot of these I never considered, really really newbie to all these sleep.gif
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 12 2015, 08:54 AM

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What is the best solution for low ceiling at extension areas? Due to the slope of the roof... Anywhere I extend, the ceiling will be lower. Eg front master bedroom (the balcony area) and worse is the back room. The current ceiling already low. Less than 9 ft. The new ceiling gonna be maximum 8.5 ft.

Is there any cost effective way to eliminate / reduce this problem? Or is changing the roof structure / raising the roof the only way?

Otherwise might have to give up extending the back rooms because the extended area is quite huge... That big space with a claustrophobic ceiling height I feel not worth it.

halcyon27

This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Nov 12 2015, 05:53 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 24 2015, 08:54 AM

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Currently getting approval / permit. Doing this concurrently while engaging contractors. Spoke to MBPJ, apparently I can't use their pelan setara (standard plans) as those can only be used if extending ground floor.

Since my extension involves balcony & 1st floor as well, I have to engage a draughtsman to draw up a proper plan.
TSphoenixxx
post Nov 30 2015, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(Elven11 @ Nov 30 2015, 01:21 AM)
Where do you stay bro? Are you based in KL? I am looking for contractor as well but mine is 22 x 70. My ideal renovation looks similar to yours. Mind to share you contacts?
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Bro
Based in Selangor. I've not selected a contractor yet. I'll PM you the contacts later this evening.
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 5 2015, 01:42 PM

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-Double post-

This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Dec 5 2015, 01:45 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 5 2015, 01:44 PM

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A small distraction in the midst of planning. Went to Eubiq warehouse today, and spent an absurd amount of money just for plug & switches sleep.gif

Again the photo orientation is screwed eventhough I have the orientation right on the PC. More neck training

Eubiq track + 6 plugs + Bachman elevator

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Eubiq track - currently using 6 plugs, but can fit up to 8. For computer area.

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Bachman elevator - for kitchen island. 1 plug + 2 USB

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Total damage: RM1.2k doh.gif
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 6 2015, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(Noregrets @ Dec 6 2015, 06:41 AM)
Have you got a "theme" for your house yet ?
I started my Reno with a theme first and take it from there.
It is easier to design once you have a theme in mind.
For eg whether you want a modern look or a minimalist look or traditional, hotel look, etc.
For eg if you want modern or minimalist, you would want to change the staircase railing to glass.
If you want traditional, you might use leave the wood banister and just revarnish.
*
Thx for the tips. Definitely want a modern design with wood elements. Some initial sample & layout from one of my con, will change more but the general feel is there I suppose.
- one of the bedrooms (2 / 3) will incorporate a study room + less bed (single maybe)
- downstairs foyer will remodel a bit to incorporate a general working area.

Appreciate any comments & critique on the layout. Any concerns, etc. Any better way to do it? This floor plan will otherwise be accepted, with minor modifications as mentioned above.

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This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Dec 6 2015, 10:30 AM
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 14 2015, 08:46 PM

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Is it advisable to buy all the internal house items this year? eg:

-WC
-taps
-sinks
-other toilet stuff eg towel hanging bar, floor trap
-light switches
-clothes drying rack
-hood, hob, fridge, oven
etc etc

I went surveying couple of weeks back and a few stores having Christmas promotion, plus most tell me new pricing will be effective next year (GST, exch rate, general increase, etc). How much do prices generally increase for these items? If really that bad I might go do some last minute shopping before 2016.
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 15 2015, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(uturn @ Dec 15 2015, 09:12 AM)
I wouldn't bother much if it was electrical appliances eg. dyer or washing machine etc...because there's always gonna be newer models coming out and the older models will always be discounted.
*
Was considering that too. Maybe I'll limit myself to the non-electrical items, whereas fridge oven etc etc I will wait. Better for warranty too since buying now will just eat up the warranty period unnecessarily.
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 18 2015, 09:28 PM

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Just sharing one of my quotes for comment & discussion. This one covers A-Z from wet works to ID. Total around 300k

1) I feel the electrical points is gonna be a killer, around 15-20k extra rough estimate.
2) Solar and roofing/insulation not included - another 25k there.
3) Approvals & drawing - 5k
4) Ventilation fans +ducting etc- 2k
5) Flooring not included - 20k

self note
6) Tiles not incl
7)

Total might breach 350k-370k sweat.gif

Some of the things I feel this guy maybe overpriced:
1) Part B - electrical/etc points gonna cost a bomb!
2) Part D - <Question> 17.5k including solar piping reasonable?
3) Part E - paintworks for link house costing 13.5k feels a bit expensive
4) Part E (the WINDOWS Part E, labelled twice) - folding door - RM5k?! rclxub.gif
5) Part F - curtain I think I go Kamdar get cheap one.
6) Part G - built in I really have no idea what the pricing should be like.

Hope to get some tips from sifu here to formulate a robust nego/bargain plan smile.gif

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This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Dec 19 2015, 12:26 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 19 2015, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(Uniwalker @ Dec 19 2015, 01:54 AM)
Agree. the old parquet is totally incomparable in quality vs the ones nowadays.

i just finished renovating my house, and my one piece of advice is plan ahead what you want for your raw materials and finishing ( stuff like fixtures, tiles, etc. ). there are warehouse sales once or twice a year that make some things a steal vs what you would actually pay but they are never on when you are available. if you have your concept early, then plan ahead and take advantage of these.
*
Thx for the tip. Yeah, I'm kinda juggling those now - looking at everything from W.C. to tiles, shower etc to get a good idea on pricing & design so that I can snap up if the opportunity arises. Homedec was a wasted opportunity for me because I only went to collect brochures, I had no idea then what I wanted / needed. Lots of switches, bathroom / kitchen items going for a steal. So, I'm planning for these concurrently now.

Then there was Electrolux @ JayaOne. I actually even managed to book some items (kitchen hood&hob, washing machine, other small items) but decided to let them go because of doubts. A friend saw my name and I released it to him, so at least he benefited smile.gif In hindsight the prices are really great for Electrolux brand & quality, same for Homedec.

This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Dec 19 2015, 12:35 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 19 2015, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 15 2015, 06:03 PM)
If the parquet can be salvaged, and you can get a contractor to do a good job to grind and refinish it properly, go for it.  Otherwise change to solid timber.  Don't waste your money on laminate.  Changing to solid timber is a major job that will take a couple of months, so if you're going to do it, do it now.
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WRT your suggestion for 18mm merbau wood (in the laminate topic) is there any reason why I should go for 18mm vs 15mm? 3mm doesnt sound like a big difference to my novice ears. Hehe. Is it to leave extra for future sanding & grinding?
TSphoenixxx
post Dec 19 2015, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ Dec 19 2015, 04:53 PM)
Overall the quotation is not expensive. Is reasonable. If can get 5% discount will be just nice
*
Based on latest discussion
Quoted price: 294,950

Add unquoted items
1) Upstairs timer flooring (based on 15mm Merbau) - 20k
2) Roof - retile, insulation, reflash, add steel battens - 20k
3) Electrical points + fittings - 15k (sounds unbelievable based on his rates, somemore include the fittings! shocking.gif )
4) CCTV & Alarm points - 3.5k
5) Solar - 4k
5) Mosquito netting whole house - 3k
6) Tiles whole house - 15k
7) Air con x 6 - 2k 12k
8) Grills - 12k
9) Misc (kitchen/toilet railings, tissue holder, various racks etc) - 2.5k
Subtotal: 107k

Total: 391k 401k
(EDIT: +10k due to erroneously counting air con as 2k instead of 12k)


He promise to do all the above for 360k
+ help do up my porch as well with minor items like repairing crack in walls, etc
+ throw in a security door for my back door

360k, still 20% more than my original intention. Wondering when actual work start, will there be another 20% on top of that, I will sleep on the streets then cry.gif

His promise is he will cap the cost at 360k, with high likelihood it will be cheaper. No black and white.





self note - confirmed items
1) Copper piping for hot water solar - agreed
2) Reroute water pipe through roof - agreed
3) "Bypass" method for W.C. pipe (no need to go through pump) - agreed
4) Vapour barrier - toilet will drop down (lowered) - no need
5) Firewall / party wall - agreed
6) Con will bear unexpected cost with difficulties on old house - agreed
7) Con will cover repair / damage to neighbour - agreed

Others
1) Alarm & CCTV = ???
2) Window tinting/heat insulation = ???
3) Roof acrylic = ???
4) Electronic front door lock = ???
5) Membrane filter 2x - outdoor & indoor = ???
5) Extra water tank / replace with larger = ???
6) Rainwater harvesting = ???

This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Dec 19 2015, 05:53 PM
TSphoenixxx
post Mar 7 2016, 11:22 AM

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Finally, after months of planning I have come to the finalized scope of work with my contractor. This is a different one from the update posted above.

Currently waiting for architect & runner to settle with local council. Hope to start work by end of this month rclxm9.gif

Just sharing the scope & plan here...

Renovation: RM190,000
Council Approval fees: RM5,000
Solar, water pump, filter, toilet stuff, sinks, lights, fans, aircon, curtain etc etc: RM30,000 est.
Total: RM225,000

Notes:
1) Extra room downstairs + new back balcony upstairs (laundry here).
2) After surveying some friends houses, decided to go for laminate instead of timber. Too costly.
3) Decided to change the entire roof structure to make first floor ceiling higher. Ceiling est. can raise another 1ft+ with new structure.
4) Not much extra costs apart from the RM30,000 mentioned above (hopefully). Contractor covers everything incl. tiles, laminated flooring, rockwool + aluminium sheet (for roof)... can't think of any more

From here on, I think it will be easier to keep costs within my original RM300,000 budget vs. if I had gone with the other one. Balance of RM75,000 or so to play around with for ID works.

Attached below the scope & plan for sifus here to peruse. smile.gif

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Attached File  EDCNP_2.3.16.pdf ( 214.8k ) Number of downloads: 130


This post has been edited by phoenixxx: Mar 7 2016, 11:27 AM
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post Mar 7 2016, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(Perbaman @ Mar 7 2016, 04:19 PM)
Wow, do u really need that studio room? can play music without noise disturbing ur neighbours? personally i think it would be nicer to have a mini herb garden there, with outdoor storage cabinet to put your penyapu, mop, maybe power tools & car accessories etc. just my 2 cents lah cheers.gif
*
The studio room is convertible to a bedroom in the future (old parents, etc). Yes, definitely can have studio for now since I'm using e-drums, so 3am also can play and no one will be able to hear tongue.gif
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post Mar 7 2016, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(CoffeeDude @ Mar 7 2016, 06:35 PM)
you don't need space to park your car?
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The plan only show built up area bro... outside got around 20-25ft for parking smile.gif

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