Pardon me, I am from SG, are there any online UT trading that you can buy from. Everything is done online, buy & sell... nothing much... an what about charts that you can refer too espcially the performance so far.. this would help you to track and monitor the best funds...

In fact, I think there are also list of top performing funds too...

As for investment link product like AIA.... I used to own them too.... however, I sold them after making 20% lost within 1 yr during the down turn.. I would suggest, unless you are not the risk taker or you are not keen and just want someone to do it for you.. Things which I found out about their funds, even my SG agent could not answer me at all although he did provide me with good services, but I just ask too much about their product so much so that he find me too much to handle. Another thing is, you see, whatever fund you buy into, do read the brochue carefully, and I suspect, they may not give you those in details which I got from my agent, which in fact, I discovered, he wasn't even aware of, the details of the fund that I bought.. they possibly tell you what they invest into which segement, but no break down of what they are.

AIA actually buy into into feeder fund, especially from AIG, the parent company. You pay sales charges to AIA, AIA in term pay to buy from AIG. Double paying sales commision. The bit and ask price is lower than that of AIG even for the same fund, likewise, when the price rises, it is much slower .. You can easily check this with your fund website.. or you account from whoever you buy from.

Do a little read up and find out more from the internet, there are materials available for your reference... That's how I learn to invest after selling off my AIA investment link product... I am better off doing my own investment than buying from AIA.. I recovered my lost way before compared to holding on to it till now.. and even make more profits from it..

by the way, may I know what is the sale charges like in MY?

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 5 2007, 11:21 PM

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Added on December 6, 2007, 11:11 am

So far, Malaysia do not have such facility that we can buy/sell/do everything with unit trust online. (If Im not mistaken). We can wait for Tune Money, which they will offer online unit trust facility in future.

For equity fund, Malaysia imposes 5-7% of service charge.

Yes, it's good that investors can know how the fund is invested and where the fund has been invested into.

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WOW, that 's is very high, much higher than SG.. we already complain for sometime and the rate has came down not long ago from 5% to 3%, and some still at 5%. However, there are those who offers online trading at 1.5% discount and even 1% if you can invest 50K above... Actually, its more expensive than investing in stock even for SG UT... market regulator is asking for more reduction in sales charges and commision..and we the investors... still complaining the sales charge is too high...

Thank u fyi.... I am not sure what kind of funds MY has.. could they be the same as some of those in SG? I mam not aware of.. also never really bother to check.. just that, I was just comparing and see what I can do with my CPF.. .that's why I am curious to find out...

So same problem as in SG, need to shop around... I understnad as my colleague 2 months ago invested some 50K each (husband and wife) in the same UT that I had. However, the strange thing was, they both pay 5% charges to this company which I recently found out was in fact, the parent of the company I invested in.. I only pay 1.5-2%.. they pay 5%... strange.. maybe they are rcich.. .that's why... ha..ha..

in fact, I know of 2 sources that charges 1% provided you invest a minimum sum or existing invested capital investment with them has already exceeded that amount... they give extra discount.

Actually, over the years, there are funds that had generated more than 100% within 1 yr.. Its not mere saying, its listed in fun facts and published every now and then.. I had seen it too.. In fact, the top performing funds immediately after the recession in SG was OCBC Thailand (150+%), india, Korea, DBS SG (just above 100%) in 1 yr. I used to own Thai India and Korea.. Of course, those days, I just started and wasn't sure of their capability and sold way before 1 yr... in fact, I can just go to my online trader and look at the chart and tell you how much the fund has performed over the past 3-5 yrs.... I mean how much it has appreciated... Just an example... I can't remember which fund, but I do remember buy it few yrs ago at below $1, not its bid price is $3+. My best performing fund for 1 yr was DWS SG small cap->60%, Indonesia >50<60%.... best still China fund within 2 mths 26%

So its really not surprising.. if you can do on your own rather than with insurcance link type... if you really don't mind.. try doing it yourself. but Sorry guys,l I am only speaking from how I do it in SG, I don't know MY climate like..

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 8 2007, 12:07 AM

I do agree with you, there are tonnes of informatio.. Even business news in SG, reported and commented that SG sales charges is high not comparable to those in EU.. probably due to smaller amount of investment by local.. that's why the rate is higher and also... most fund actually bought into feed funds of some other countries, which it can't be compared to... making 800% in say 5 yrs? That I don't know, but certain, its much higher than even say 150% in 1 y is poosible too...

I know because I used to and am still looking at those so call funds that had appreciated more than 300 - 500% gain for the past 3 yrs... like I just recalled, an India fund I bought ~70c then it now worth ~$3.60 now. ~5 yrs time frame

In SG, all UT for investment comes with typical sales charge. 1 time off like my trader offering online charge of 1.5% for most funds.. else it will be 2.5% and some 2% depending on who is selling the funds. I bought my UT from my stock broker, who is actually the middle man and there are easily hundreds of funds that I can buy. After the sales, all bid prices reflected will factored all charges into it, charges like expenditure, roadshow, advertisement, commision, etc... Whatever the bid price, for the day will be the price if you sell... there is nothing else to it..

In fact, such traders usually contains pages on their website about "how to" and "know about" on UT.. almost everything you want to know about UT before investing.. You can even call them up for advise, which I had never done so.. because you can learn all about UT on the internet yourself.. no need anyone to teach you. SG regulation included compulsary clause that when you buy/sell, you are liable to whatver happen to your buy/sell... be it profit or lost... because its a rule that you are your own liability should you not seek advise from your trader... else they will be liable for not providing advise and yet charge the sales charge, part of service, you should sue them for losses incurred. This is also mandatary requirement for insurance link invested product like those of AIA... You need to declare that you are aware of what you are investing into... because, in time past, some people were conned into buying...

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 8 2007, 11:15 PM

Actaully, there are many local in SG equally blur about UT investment, those who can, whould avoid UT because to them, tis too slow, which I agree, however, beacuse of CPF ruling, only certain % of CPF can be invested in stock to minimised risks.. Therefore... not choice... at least still better than kepping inside CPF and getting that much lesser interest as compared to investing in UT. That's why MAS (Monetary Authority of SG) insisted on certain ruling. Still remember, AIA was fined and forced to pay back something which MAS declared misleading public due to their selling and information shared not consistent and without declaring certain risk and position about their investment among their agents. Soon after that, all insurance companies were forced to declare and made known some basic things about innvesting, and buyer have to signed and acknowledged.

All my UT investment, the information are provided under the fund manager porfolio, like the top 10 stocks holding under that particular fund.. I can easily get this online anytime. I used to buy into this OCBC SG balance fund and I am actually using the top 10 holdings to monitor online live the fund performance daily, which is.. not reaally necessary. However, I just used it as a referencee.

Another one of my online trader does not provide breakdown. However, the quarterly statement should reflect what funds you have bought into... But again, may not reflect what it actually buy into. Anyway, I don't think its difficult to find detail information on the internet. Or you can ask the agent about it as they are obligated to do so, failure to which, you can complain to MAS or CASE. In fact, for insurance agenies in SG, they must take tests and pass certain modules in order to be able to sell certain things.. not all each agent can sell provided they fulfil the requirement by MAS



This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 10 2007, 12:20 AM

Likewise, some funds in SG is also out of commoners reach because of the minimum amount investment needed. Often you have to call them up in order to place investment order.. I also read that some funds are only meant for hedge fund investor.. over here, few years back, hedge fund investment is usually in $MILLION, but last time, it has dropped to 500K minimum.. But their return is indeed very good. ... as they are beend tracked.

The MY situation, seems more like what SG used to face, uuntill the market mature and more going online, charges is not going to drop. The same sentiment that drove the online trading... and reduces the cost of charging.

Over in SG, from fund performance tracking and analysts report, China's UT had only came to life last year.. I bought into one of the chinese best performing fund 3 yrs ago and switch out as I had better performing funds generating more profit... then switch back into this chinese fund again.. to maximise gain...

I suspect, I am not sure how its done in MY. But in SG, regulation comes into play. MAS impose a minimum $$$ in the funds. If the fund falls below the limit, they and becomes likely unpopular, they will have to closed down hte fund and money refunded. That's what happen even to big player like AIG, the parent company of AIA in SG. they are not the only ones, others too. The rational was to have better returns funds available rather than having so many funds with lower returns.

I invested mostly in oveseas fuunds and going through middle man trading companies in SG with reputation... kind... I mean its well known in SG UT industry and stock... and many of this funds are actually a feed funds of hte bigger large ones in EU and US, which not easily available to ordinary folk at lower bid prices.

I may have have really understood what you mean, but my histroy record reads like:

Aberdeen indonesia (Aberdeen asset mgt)
DWS China - (Deutch banker)
HSBC EU prty fund (HSBC)
Legg Mason SEA spc. Asset
Lion SG Bal fund (subsidy of OCBC)
AIG Acorns of Asia (AIG)
1st State Bridge (1st State, not sure from where, but DBS SG is selling them too)
1st State India
HSBC BRIC (invest in Brazil, Russia, India, China)
Lion Korea
Fidelity S. America
etc................

All these holdings were bought from the 2 online traders whichever offers best charges... All buy & sell its through them... of course, I can transfer my UT holding any of traders so long as I am a member... All this are sanctioned by MAS and link to CPF and even your bank account.

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 10 2007, 11:16 PM

Okay, maybe I have confused you. the 2 that I buy from:

www.fundsupermart.com - largest UT in SG

www.poems.com.sg -- Philip's on-line electronic mart system

In SG stock market, people know who they are. regularly appearing on Monday morning chinese TV program about SG stock and opinions. They also sell UT. They are actually middle man company selling on behalf for the various asset fund management... you can buy DBS UT from them at even lower rate than what DBS offers.

These 2 sites contains many info and fact sheet , who owns what and both have a chart too to see the pattern the fund progresses. POEMS is slightly better.. Of course, as member you see even more of chart tools etc.. .aids to assist you in determining pattern

Both these sites permit online trading ... that's what I meant about online trader.. I hope I didn't mislead you or I could have use the wrong term here.. .if so, my apology. You can buy from this site too by opening an account. Just like I can buy online into MY, Thai, US, HK stock anytime during trading hours of the country.

Why not try the 2 sites on your own and discover what's there.. Fundsupermart has more on UT and what you need to know about, including a predictive scheme that helps you determine the kind of risk you can take. All online, that's the reason why its cheaper... than going to agent. I had been with them for ~ 8yrs, buying/selling without any problem... Quite safe for us here I would say..

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Added on December 11, 2007, 11:42 pmOh, that's good news for investors.. In SG, CPF (refer to ordinary account) is broken down in 2 categories...

1. Managed product (your entire CPF saving)
2. Stock (some % of 1)
3. Gold (some % of 1)

you can used whatever balance in CPF to buy UT provided the fund permits CPF purchase. Some higher risk funds are only availble using CASH. Othewise, there is no restriction. However, you have to keep aside some for HDB payment.

Not forgetting, CPF actually consists of 2 part. ordinary acc and Special acc...

Ordinary accounts get 2.5% interest and is mobile, anytime withdrawn out for whatever valid reasons.

Special Account, gets 4% interest, can only be used for low risk investment like certain UT certified by MAS. can't any how invest..

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Added on December 11, 2007, 11:45 pmh, that's limiting your spectrum.... if all selling some what the same thing.. then its hard. However, like buying UT related to SG, I still have a choice to so call choose the best performing fund but monitoring their chart performance and pattern... likewise, you too can unless its not available to you.

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 11 2007, 11:48 PM

I am not sure whether bonds are available in MY. Bonds are what people look for during recession. Howver, they are low risk and as such, the returns aren't fantastics.... so do not expect too much.

Without diverification, buying UT in a single country dones't really offer you very much as most will return a some what similar profit. If your choices are opened, then it make more sense... I know because, I used to have fund that returns >100% for 1 year. My colleague who is still holding on to his UT since the last recession had >300% gain in India to date.. Of course, he had also bought into other countries UT available in SG.... I can only recall his profit gain date sometime in Sept, his investment $80K, profit = $60+K with UT bought over various period of time.... which includes some bought in the last few months.. The profit is an average of all... majority of his UT bought in hte pasdt few years are in ~200% range profit.. exceptional, like India as I mentioned earlier

Yes, that was the year I started buying UT after having lost 40+k in 6 months on stock without knowing anything... jsut rush in and thought I can make something.. to realise.. BIG mistake without doing my homework and knowing anything about stock market...

However, my UT was break even and soon I sold all before serious damage. But My colleague hold on to his.. till now.

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Added on December 20, 2007, 11:38 pmbe it long term. the climate to invest in UT has totally changed. In SG, some analysts are even suggesting maximising gain by selling instead of holding out like my colleague did. I sold mine when the recession started and bought back just in time for the bull run.. while I was making, he was recovering ground.. that's the different. Sure enough, I too suffered loses from my selling but bearly minimum compared to his as I mentioned, break even, some lost some make.. Then I bought at lower prices with cheaper UT when Mr Bull was about to start, my gain is much more than his instead. While I switch in and out to optimise gain figuring out which was best options, he stick with his and soon saw my profit souring while his still in recovering ground or some even stagnant.

Soon he follow suits and started making profit fron new purchases of Fast moving UT. Bought more of the same existing UT to average down prices to increase his stake..... Sometimes, it pays to be cut losses and switch UT to maximise the gain which I did experiemented... In fact, my risk level is rather high, so he kind of use me as the front runner before deciding because he claimed he have had enough loosing $$$ in stock and not willing another heart attck in loosing more $$$... His UT buying was also because I talked him out of it... that's why he had invested... to date, no regrets as he said.. better returns than the banks.

However, if you average up the % of profit over the years, his %/yr gain isn't really fantastics, but given the bank rate is that low.. his more than happy because his Gain actually BEATS bank rate hands down

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 20 2007, 11:48 PM

I am doing both in fact. However, if you know that the market is entering the bear stage, you can simply sell and wait for opportunities to buy back cheaper and with more units. You have nothing to loose. Hold could be one option, but from experience, bear run will not just last for weeks, it could take months up to few years to recover. Besides, no harm selling because, ultimately, if you are still interested in investing, why not buy while you think its chances of rising is higher than while its doing down? That option is definitely much better than holding. You maximise your gain when the BULL begin to charge.

However, if you are not interested to bother about it and decide to leave it there.. well.. than maybe you should stayed engaged and invested. My colleague after seeing what I had done, could only add on to his portfolio than sell his existing holding to leverage on the bull run....

You have nothing to loose, if you are longer term investor, like me, I do test water at times before plunging more $$ in. I can simply buy more over a regulr period of time to average down at cheaper price. This is what the SRS scheme is doing. not sure you have that in MY.

Both strategies can be used no matter what. You have nothing to loose all to gain. However, like many who just simply plunge in with almost all they can invest, I think its not wise. Even Fundmanger don't advice you to do that... of course, most agents would say weclome... because they want you commision. I would rather do my own UT investment online than go to agents... ... let them earn your money like my other colleagues..... ha..ha.. make me sound so stupid when I told him what I did and he didn't believe, yet after 1 year, he bought from some one ... some agent.,. ha..ha.. paying 5% sales charge while I only pay 1.5% for the same funds. what a joke

Its need to do your homework before jumping in...

Agree, I am also doing this for my UT investment... However, when is the peak and when the lowest is anybody guess. However, with some discipline and knowledge of investing, you can certain maximise the gain and manage losses rather then just hold for long term.

Long term is something of the past I believe.. talk about mid term few years, say 3-5 years or short term, say 1 year.. I remember those great days when stock rally, UT also rally, however the Technology UT to date, has yet to recover ot its previous high in those gloriuous day... its already been some >10 years, and still it is... What happened? Analysts in SG is advice people differently for those who understand a little more of what they invest and the risk involved to adopt such strategy... I do practice this...

Precisely, even in SG, many just tell the nice side of the story.. My AIA agent, a responsible guy I must say, even he himself lack certain knowledge when he sold UT to me... After one year of making 20% lost, I decide to sell on my own UT with AIA online.. much to his surprise because he was remanded by his boss as he had no idea I had sold it online, and he told me the same story... long term... long term.. Now he dare not sell me any more UT as even I can proivde better UT advise than himself. Many other questions, agents could not answer me when they try to sell me... In fact, I purposely post them those issues... to test them. I have never had any intention to buy from them since I can do it myself online in SG and the sales charges is much cheaper... 1.5% mostly and at times 2.%

Recently, I met my wife's classmate in Mid Valley while on a trip to KL. She told me she had just got her licence to sell UT and I cited the sales charge issue and reduction in commission. She told me, she will only make half of the commission, the other half goes to the company. If the sales commission is reduced, it will eats into their sales income, because the company will still take their stake.

This post has been edited by bbmars: Dec 30 2007, 11:53 PM

Totally agreed, In SG, I used to invest in this Fidelity S. America UT investing in Brazil, Chile, and few other S.A's countries. I once bought HSBC India fund at $5+/unit. My colleagues complain too EXP and bought into some other alternative India fund... few months down the road, the difference was so telling that he started buying into it.

In mid 2006, I bought Fidelity South America fund at US$19.2/unit and my same colleague said EXP too... what is the price today? US40+ and I merely invested SG$2k... There is no such thing as EXPENSIVE here.. only whether they are affordable. Doesn't mean EXP UT don't do well.. You can actually look up POEMS.COM.SG and see the chart for yourself, some of the UT, especially those priced at >$1K/UT and above, some even in US$, their moving rate is much higher. just that, they are mainly for big investor and you have to contact them should you invest. Some are for hedge fund investment if you can afford.

So it lies with preformance of the UT, which is more important.. what unit and low price you can get, don't be decived as I had been told by agent before and had refuted their so call claim...
as for teh arguement on that RM0.25 and RM1 UT comparision.. I personally had not come across that this kind of thing should happen and to me its flawed... what you are referring too is basically performance.. not about the price. If the fund is performing.. regardless of unit price... I will still buy.. WHY? because they make more $$$ for me.. hack about CHEAP UT price....

This post has been edited by bbmars: Jan 4 2008, 11:32 PM

In SG, funds prospectus are available including top 10 funds they invest into with fund performance over the past 5 yrs if available. However, sometimes, I do switch in and out of funds to leverage on the gain momentum, which I find can comes with quite startling differences, say within 6mths, a particular shot up more than 50-60% due to market shift/conditions.. So I will try to find out why and possible to re-locate some of my slower moving funds to it. I did tried this on several times and I would say, the gain was rather high as compared to not switching into. In fact, my "trading company" (see below) permits me to swtich funds FOC 15x/yr. This technique is not new and was even mentioned at the website that I had bought my UT from, I used to pay normal charges for switching, but due to competition, .....its free now.. however, some charge lower switching fees then before.

Just imagine, sometime mid last year I was still holding on to Henderson EU Property fund and decided to sell after seeing it drop some 10%, which is quite a lot because I had been holding it since 2005 (in fact, have been buying/selling several times with this fund since 2003). Imagine the price I bought at that time to see it drop that much is something. IF I bought it in 2007, 10% could be nothing significant. I sold and then the Sublime prime issues hit the headline big time causing the big correction in Aug 07. This fund had appreciated non-stop since 2003 (I think). It was a slow and steady fund which I would like to keep. Its not my best performing funds, but I like the way it behaved, Bought it when it was at high $2+, sold at low $4+ When I check the chart it last week, the current price was back to somewhere in Oct- Nov 2005 (I think). So given that nature, I could have either sell it or switch into something profitible. Imagine too, a mere few months can bring the price down all the way to 2005. Lucky for me, I sold it.. FYI, I bought almost all my UT using CPF.

* Trading company is a 3rd party company that sells all sort of UT available in SG. In fact, much cheaper than the originator of the funds. Example, I can buy DBS UT at 50% discount of the sales charges than buying direct from DBS. I am currently owning UT from both Philips security and Fundsupermart (biggest UT company in SG).

This post has been edited by bbmars: Jan 6 2008, 11:39 PM

Fundsupermart is no longer the cheapest around. It used to be, but had over taken by Philips security. Anyway, I bought into both companies too. I would say not bad return. However, if you could spend a little more time to monitor other performing funds, it could realiseed that 16% is not as good. However, considering the overall average, is still good sense of your investment. There are other funds that perform superbly.. HSBC Indian, Lion India, Lion Thailand and Korea jus after the last recesion in 2001.. they rocket >100% in 1 yr.

Anyway, happy investing.. keep it there.. for now, I am cautious as market is some what ... . weary of recession from US... India fund is one that you can look into for now as it was reported indian market is sheild from US Subprime issue... Just today, the Indian Sensex index had gone up while almost all of Asia's indexes were down due to weka US job creation figure... BIG TIME correction...

Did I read wrongly? Bonds returns are better than fund? Fund as ? there are many equity fund out there that easily out bit Bond anytime except during reccession.. Every where, including in SG, you can visit the online website and see for yourself how much they are in profit as compared to bonds.

Anything with low risk, how can they make more than funds? that's why I am asking what fundsa are you referring to? You can easily find from prospectus about the various funds and its investment, including a risk rating.. higher teh risk, higher the return, lower the risk, lower the return of investment. So low risk high return? where to find such bond? SG Gov's bond only giving out something like 3-4 %.. Likewise, US too... rather low. I once bought a EU bond fund, which gave me some 6%/yr during the recession in SG.

Just came out in SG, the top market sector for 2007, 1st India, 2nd China, and 3rd is Malaysia.. etc...

This post has been edited by bbmars: Jan 8 2008, 11:53 PM

Today, I went to Philips security Malaysia website. Surprise to find certain section is still under construction. Besides, when I search for product, there were few choices and I thought, what's so good to invest then? limted product to choose with no alternative. So different from Philips SG..

KLCI case is alittle different from the rest... being GE year and this usually the case with many other index, prop up and FEEL GOOD effect by the Gov before GE. not surprising its being pushed up all the way. unlike many others.

I do own some China Equity fund, but still waiting for signal whether to pull out. I also own Indian fund, but its mooving upward though. I hope what was said was right and from the chart pattern, seems like its least affected by US problem. The entire Asia in RED, but this fellow is GREEN....

I am going to sell off my one position which has focus in Korea on Monday. I don't think the market is going to continue any more uptrend for now, next few months. Just last night, another big announcement from US, another big US bank had revealed Subprime lost is much bigger than it was reported after teh last write off... much worse causing the US index to plunge even further 200+points..... Will see waht happen on Monday, but for KLCI... not sure how it would perform... being GE year, ... punters and analysts will sure try push it up again if not another.