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 Fund Investment Corner, Please share anything about Fund.

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cherroy
post Jan 2 2008, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(Grengo01 @ Jan 2 2008, 03:01 PM)
Except for 2007 I think every other year (also except the ones when there are major downturns) one can see the peak is about after CNY then it drop some 10%- 25%unless there is a big hiccup in subprime which I hope will be muted and with Beijing Olympics in 2008, the global economy should remain buoyant at least with demand from China. Cuts both ways as energy cost is expected to spiral as China thirst for more petroleum and steel, there will be additional inflation pressure.

On the other hand on local front.....

With our G artificially suppressing inflation by resisting increasing fuel prices to maintain popularity, the impact will be humungous once after election where we we see a 15% increase across the board for all items edible or otherwise. Hence, I am also worried if that is the case, keeping it in bonds for more than 6 months can be a possibility unless, PublicMutual comes up with a fund exclusively for O&G and Energy Sector.. smile.gif.
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No, 2007 also did peak (for 6 months chart) at the beginning of the year before had a mini-crash on Feb, just KLCI did recover back to make a new high in the year end. But the market sentiment and overall picture currently (with KLCI new high) is not the same as the beginning of the 2007 year. The bullishness is not the same although KLCI manages to make new high, a lot of stocks had been off their best significantly.

Inflation surely will be sky-rocketing in near future. For local there is no pure O&G sector, as there is none of oil company are listed in KLSE. Those O&G company listed in KLSE are those supporting equiptment/construction/work O&G company, there is oil producing company. Too bad, Petronas never want to be listed in KLSE, otherwise it is a good option.
If really want to play a pure O&G sector, one needs go for global fund (resources type)
cherroy
post Jan 2 2008, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(lifeless_creature @ Jan 2 2008, 04:28 PM)
cherroy, how about counter 6033 (PETGAS) and 5681(PETDAG) ? Aren't those petronas counters?
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PetroGas is just a division that selling natural gases product
PetDag is a division that selling petrol or running petrol station one.

That one we would like to have is the Petronas (the parent company) that are drilling crude oil one.

See the differences, which one is more profitable?
cherroy
post Jan 2 2008, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(lifeless_creature @ Jan 2 2008, 04:43 PM)
oh....ok..smile.gif thanks~!
And back to topic by Grengo01, the 1 fund that focuses on natural resources/gas that I found is from OSKUOB-Resources, which invests in palm oil, natural gas, oil. timber, coal, miningg, etc. companies across Asia region including Australia...though that fund may not be EPF-certified...take a look if you're interested smile.gif
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All global and regional fund are not allowed by them after recent changes.
cherroy
post Jan 2 2008, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(Grengo01 @ Jan 2 2008, 04:49 PM)
Nobody would want to list a cash cow.... they do not need the cash.. and why would you want to subject a perfectly profitable company to be partially owned by someone else? Rite Cherroy.. LOL..

Well, there are some O&G related counters since petroleum prospecting is oligopolistic in nature but the ancillary business and industry that supports it will gain as well. It will be worth their while to start a fund that focusses on certain verticals/ industry, industry specific funds would generate more focus and returns, not more returns but depending on economic and demand climate, it would significantly outperform the key indicators.




Added on January 2, 2008, 4:55 pm

The problem with me is I am too lazy to deal with too many agents... smile.gif.

Thanks. I will look into it. In fact, I am also looking at funds that invest in clean and renewable energy industry. Although many countries are moving at snail pace to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, the direction towards this end will probably crystalize sooner rather than later.
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Yup, those supporting O&G are also will be benefitting, just would like to have the top or upper line one as those upper stream will have steady stream of income through oil drilling (or any term you call it) while those supporting it only relied on the contracts awarded by them which is somehow can be cyclical in nature and volatile.
But having said that, as long as oil price is high, those supporting industry will also have a good time ahead.

There are some newer global funds called climate or climate change which have been launched by 2 to 3 funds house which primary invest in company stocks that are doing or producing environmental friendly product. Don't know about their prospect. Just to let you know, not meant to recommend it. Judge your own.
cherroy
post Jan 4 2008, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(onlyforthecars @ Jan 4 2008, 11:18 AM)
Thanks kingkong81. I think I will go for an agent. Any recommendation?
I think that the power of unit trust also lies in the number of units. Let's take 2 funds for example. One is priced at RM1 and the other at RM0.25. By the end of the 1st year if both funds prices increase by 2 cents. And if the investor invested RM 1000 at the beginning of the year his portfolio will look like this;
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Your arguement is totally flawed as said by Grengo01

Don't be fooled by the number of unit. A unit trust of 0.25 with 4,000 units while the other with 1.00 with 1,000 unit is the same. No matter they issue or IPO with 0.25 or 1.00, makes no different at all. Just may be make you feel good about 'more units' or price is low (0.25), but in actual fact it makes no different.
It is the % if gain that matter. If both fund performance are the same 0.25 goes up to 0.27 the 1.00 will also goes up to 1.08.
A 1.00 fund doesn't mean it had no room to go. Normally, you won't or seldom see fund to have 2.00 or 3.00 because they like to split/bonus it whenever they make significant gain or fund price appreciate quite a lot which make the unit price become around 1.00.
cherroy
post Jan 4 2008, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Jan 4 2008, 02:59 PM)
I think that is one of the main reasons why the funds like to split/bonus/dividend etc to keep the price per unit "low" - the feel-good psychological factor. It makes people want to buy because it is "cheap". It makes no difference to fund value of course, but it can be significant in affecting share prices.
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Sadly to say, a lot of people fall into this kind of 'trap'. (not actually trap, somehow it is marketing trick)
There is also the reason why there are a lot of funds currently issued at Rm0.25 or Rm0.50 rather than Rm1.00 (most in old day time). They DID attract more investors than those RM1.00 although in actually fact it is the same due to the 'feel more or cheap' factor as mentioned.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 4 2008, 03:40 PM
cherroy
post Jan 6 2008, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Jan 6 2008, 07:48 AM)
Trustee is the caretaker for the money invested, but they do not involve directly in the management of the funds. They do have to approve all transactions involving the money that they are holding. It should be the fund managers' experience that count in unit trust smile.gif
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Yup, Trustee had nothing to do with it. As long as fund managers don't cross the line or violate the objective of the funds, trustee will let it be.
cherroy
post Jan 12 2008, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Jan 12 2008, 06:00 PM)
If you look at different funds by different managers with the word 'China' in the name, they all show a downward trend from the peak of about 3 months ago.

So it depends on what you think is going to happen from now on. I think there might be a period of 'uncertainty' (not sure what the word means but its something I picked up from reports by 'analysts'  smile.gif ) due to China trying to cool the overheating economy, inflation pressures and pressure to revalue the Yuan, and side-effects from the US stuff-ups.

I have some China-related funds that I'm thinking of pulling out now because I don't think a positive upwards trend is going to happen soon, at least not until towards the end of the year. But haven't really decided yet.
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Recently, although China related stocks index is high, there are plenty of stocks that are way off their previos peak. Its bullishness currently become a bit more sectorial, not overall.
It somehow like KLSE and KLCI case, KLCI might be hitting 1500, but there are plenty of stocks in KLSE that still way below the price when 1200 level.
cherroy
post Jan 13 2008, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(bbmars @ Jan 12 2008, 11:05 PM)
I do  own some China Equity fund, but still waiting for signal whether to pull out.  I also own Indian fund, but its mooving upward though.  I hope what was said was right and from the chart pattern, seems like its least affected by US problem.  The entire Asia in RED, but this fellow is GREEN....

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If not mistaken, India market is quite similar to China market, they are not totally close nor totally open free market like Singapore, Korea or the rest of the world, there are some restrictions so in this kind of market, US and global equities effect has lesser impact, they tend to move on their own theme, just like China, DJ can plunge 300 points but they can move in opposite direction.
cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(woopypooky @ Jan 17 2008, 02:54 PM)
which unit trust / fund investment offer the highest return rates annually?
And how many percentage annually?
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This question might be too subjective or vague.

Every UT has different portfolio, strategy, different sector play/ theme in nature.
One can be magnificient in one year, also can be the worst in another year compared to others if market condition is not favourable.

Even I tell you xxx fund is a top performer last year with zz% return rate, it can be making a loss this year also.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 17 2008, 03:16 PM
cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(woopypooky @ Jan 17 2008, 04:41 PM)
so on rough scale, how much % return anually can we expect from a high perfroming companies?
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It can be -10% -20%, -35%, it also can be +15% or +30% or +50% which is depended on market environment at particular of time period.

You can't expect any fixed or rough return rate, it is all depended on market condition and fund portfolio.


cherroy
post Jan 22 2008, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(satur9 @ Jan 22 2008, 03:55 PM)
Does this also apply to zero coupon negotiable instruments of deposits (ZNIDs)? And are these issued by banks or companies?
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It depends, zero coupon is issued at discount price, so you need to look how much potential yield when maturity.
Interest rate is vary from time to time. The primary risk of bond funds is default rate. When got default in bonds in the bond fund portfolio then bond funds will struggle.
cherroy
post Jan 23 2008, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(rollinpark @ Jan 23 2008, 01:30 AM)
Hi,

Do you consider invest in a global UT here in M'sia as being diversified over the world or is it better to convert the money and invest at UT at other country such as in S'pore for example.
Thanks.
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Mostly local global UT are feeder fund type, they take the money to invest in some other countries UT, they don't invest directly themselves. Just like HwangDBS Global Property fund is actually invest in Singapore DBS Global Property Securities Fund (GPSF).

They are some exceptional global fund that are invest themselves but not many.
cherroy
post Jan 23 2008, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(outsider @ Jan 23 2008, 04:43 PM)
ic....it mean they cooperate with other UT company or fund manager to manage their fund?  unsure.gif  unsure.gif
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No, feeder fund manager doing nothing. All investment are done by the targetted feeder fund.

It is just like individual invest in UT, just the individual role change to a UT fund (local global fund).
Sometimes it is called fund of fund. Sound funny sometimes, right?
cherroy
post Jan 25 2008, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(keith_hjinhoh @ Jan 25 2008, 09:58 AM)
Since we have no access or limited access to US broker or funds, I guess the best alternative would be a listed companies like Genting, PBBank, YTL where they have their investment all over the world and we're holding a shares in listed companies that have access to all over the world.

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Buying Genting, Pbbank or YTL won't able to access all over the world. Although Genting, Pbbank does have investment in UK, HK, UK respectively, large chunk of revenue still generated through locally. If really want to access equities all over the world investment, better through UT or ETF like Dreamer said.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 25 2008, 02:33 PM
cherroy
post Feb 10 2008, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(houlierr @ Feb 9 2008, 04:47 PM)
Yes, its guaranteed 7% per annum.
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Becareful to read those tiny and little word in the policy. icon_idea.gif

I had Endowment insurance also, it is not guaranteed but projected.

I am not sure what kind/type you are taking up, so can't comment on your part but remember insurance company needs to make money to pay tou the interest/return, they won't make a losing business after all. If they can't generate 7% or more return on their capital, there is no way they can pay the policy holders at 7%.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers.
cherroy
post Feb 19 2008, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(FattiePotato @ Feb 19 2008, 04:15 PM)
I had a question tat i couldn't think of the answer. "How to lose ur money in unit trust?"

Since when we start to invest in unit trust, all the money value will be shift into unit. Even the market up or down, it won't affect our money because in the account is only in unit. It only will affect us when we repurchase the unit out because the unit will turn into money value.

So if like this, then we only took out the money when the price go up n not during the time go down lor.. Then... how came ppl can lose money in unit trust? I still couldn't get it! We the one controlling the time of repurchase and not the market rite? So... whether the market up o down oso... Its none of our investor business oso. Am I rite? ohmy.gif
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No, you are not right because the re-purchased price (NAV value) is not controllable by fund managers or fund houses, it is dictated of the value of the fund portfolio aka their underlying stocks or bonds value in the market. If market goes down and its portfolio stocks goes down then the fund NAV goes down. This is not a pyramid or money game bare in mind. You can split out market with fund as fund invest money in the market.

You don't redeem your unit, yes, you won't realise your loss, just paper loss, not realised, but a loss still a loss, just you opt for long term and don't care about short term paper loss. It is more like Ostrich behaviour, hiding your head in the ground, don't want to see the truth.
Don't get me wrong on this, short term loss or any loss in investment is unavoidable as one never will buy the lowest, but if one choose the right investment, over long run, mostly make money one.

If invest in wrong time aka at market peak time like Nasdaq during 2000, when Nasdaq composite is 5,000+, if one invest in Nasdaq related fund then after 8 years time, your fund become 50% of the origin invested value only, although in future may be it will go beyond 5,000 again and your fund state to make a profit but who's know when, another 5 years, 10 years. By then those opt for FD one rather than invest in UT already see their money double while one invests in Nasdaq composite related fund only see their money breakeven. In this case, even after 10 years you make profit from it after Nasdaq manage to climb back to make some gain but your gain is significant lesser than if put in FD then it is already considered a 'loss' or more accurate word 'opportunities loss'.

So a little bit getting right on timing will help a lot, don't need to buy at the lowest or sell at highest, just avoiding to but when market seems to high or expensive will be good enough already. Different funds have different strategy, some do perform quite well, some also did poorly as well. Can't say all, it depends on nature of the fund as well as the fund house and managers managing it.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Feb 19 2008, 04:34 PM
cherroy
post Feb 20 2008, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(kingkong81 @ Feb 20 2008, 04:00 PM)
Generally in the 1st 6months - 1 year time is for you to recoup back your service charge. If market is good, the duration for breakeven is shorter.

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Generally, it is true when market is on the way up but not always true.

Just like, if enter wrong timing, like some properties fund last year or some China related funds, they are making loss of more tha 20-30% since last year end. Not to say recoup the serive charge, it is challenging for the fund to just breakeven in near term.
So it is much depends on market condition, can't use last few year performance (market bull run) to judge how future will be or as the standard comparison. Market won't have bull run every year one, in between there are difficulty period or bearish time, just over the long run (decades long), market mostly is always up one, but not a must. Typically example would be Nikkei 225 after about 15-20 years since its last boom, it has not recovered until now.

Just my 2 cents
cherroy
post Feb 20 2008, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(chuken123 @ Feb 20 2008, 04:41 PM)
are there any dividen or bonus when we invest in fund like public mutual ?
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Invest in UT, you don't look for it, you look for the daily and long term increment in the fund NAV.
Any distribution/dividend are giving out are deducting from funds NAV, which is as same as unit split.
cherroy
post Feb 23 2008, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Feb 22 2008, 10:30 PM)
"Far East"  itself should cover Vietnam or even as far as US. I believe fund managers should invest where the potentials are and not restricted to one country alone. More rooms to provide better returns to investors, take profits if a country's market is about to correct from high valuations.

Just 2 sen opinion.
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But, US is considered Western already. Far-East generally refere to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, and Pacific Rim countries. (West of Pacific until the GMT line)

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