i write songs for my church and most of the time i write songs when i am free. but most of the songs i threw it away oledi.. and most of the songs dun hav lyrics... i only write the song but no lyrics de... some ppl told me that i should read more and get ideas for my lyrics but even i got the lyrics but i find it hard to cope with my song... anybody got the same experience?

all song writters pls log in and post here!!! share some experience with me... wanna learn more about song writting. thanks!!!

It seems to me that to you, songs=lyrics.....
Of course you know that isn't always the case......

Look at Steve Vai, The Satch, Yngwie.... Many songs are instrumentals and don't need lyrics to bring the message across. On Steve Vai's For The Love Of God..... it doesn't need lyrics to bring a powerful message......

Instead of racking your brains to come up with lyrics....... why not just instrumental it!

yea... true but many ppl juz dun understand it... too bad.. they just ask me, where r the lyrics... then i tell them i dun write them... is it something wrong?

nothing is wrong...if ur able to tell ur story just by using only instruments, not lyrics...why not? in art, there's no right or wrong...

u can try to listen to neil zaza's song...they are mostly simple riffs, not much usage of crazy techniques...yet, he can easily bring out the emotion from the songs..

This post has been edited by asura_86: Nov 9 2006, 03:48 PM

yup..ppl who asked you where is the lyrics prolly asked a universal question
I wrote songs with 'simple' lyrics..hey..it's for self pleasure and satisfaction..
Unless you are going to market the songs..then it's ok.

Instrumental or not...it's music...
Lyrics or not..depends on yourself..
With lyrics..you can get your friends to enjoy it together by singing it..
You cant really 'sing' a song w/o lyrics mah..

i write songs without lyrics. At most one sentence songs where the vocals sort of add to the harmony. As for church instrumental pieces can be used for intermissions, or before the service starts, lord's supper etc etc.

If others come to me and ask "where's the lyrics", my reply is "what? you haven't written them yet?"

Worst come to worst, get a hold of poetry by obscure poets & plagiarize...

I think instrumentals are great too! but some people won't get it as well as others do. Good lyrics are written down in a moment of inspiration, there is no way u can squeeze it out in a session, and its best to do it alone. Brainstorming or working with a friend hasn't worked for me. It worked for Lennon and McCartney though, so unless you have a McCartney or Lennon stored somewhere in your closet, your best bet is to go solo. You will write more honestly that way.

You always see that in video clips musicians have the old "guitar + cigarette + coffee table + paper n pencil" thing going, and you might wanna do that too. Stimulants can really help. For me its redbull or livita honey

I also find that an environment of absolute silence is a great help. So you can soak in the music and listen to your words clearly.

If you're writing in English, pay attention to stress patterns in the syllables. Most 2nd language users don't pay attention to this and that's why when they sing it sounds a bit 'off'. This applies to speaking too. (I am an English teacher so I CAN say these things lol)

Don't force a topic. Many times I tried to write about love but somethin else would come out. I read somewhere that writing is an unconscious process, so it cant be forced. Play your chords/riff over and over and just start humming and filling the blanks with random words. Soon, a subject will start to appear. Then you can carry on from there. oh yeh, dun forget to rhyme haha although you dun have to

I hope this helps

P/s: OR you could always use the Eric Cartman Christian Rock songwriting technique!

This post has been edited by gizmoduck: Nov 9 2006, 09:37 PM

what technique is that?

wow... thanks for all the tips and advise... actually i write poems too but they just dun sound like lyrics... but i seldom write now because of my STPM coming soon... my head still spinning... but i sometimes write songs just to release stress. u guys do that too? well, i got my younger sister that help me to write lyrics but she is not very good too..

we wrote a song for our school society before and it become the theme song for one of the camp in the society. it was oso sang in the yearly performance in front of hundreds!!! actually i was really proud with that song.. i wrote it with my sister then my mum wrote the lyrics ( she is a chinese teacher )

i sang in church my own written song before but i got a senior which is a very gud musician. he say the song was too complicated and is not "singable" to other ppl... and he say the song will be gud for performance only. not for worship... is ok la... i just keep on writting...

u guys got the same experience too?

this is gonna sound offensive

just take any popular songs and replace the word 'baby', 'my love' etc with "JESUS" lolx

like blue mountain - "Oooohh JESUS I LOVE YOUR WAY, EVERYDAY"

sometimes it works. but not owez... but is really not easy to create ur own lyrics and song... i really respect those artist that can write very very nice songs like jay, daivd, lee hom...

Great tips... somehow I don't have the drive to actually sit down with a piece of paper & pen, and write something. Although I do have some lyrical ideas once in a while.

PS: Yeah I've seen that episode too! Funny as hell!

Btw, what happened to the Cloudburst EP?

Cloudburst EP is available for purchase if u want one! if u live near subang, Simon in subang square sells them. Or u can always get it from me

Hoobastank - "AND THE REAASON IS JEEEEEESUSS"....! I guess that would work

Ahh... I'ill check out Subang Square then... Simon? The guitar shop on the first floor, is it?

"Jesus's beautiful, no matter what they say, words can't bring Him down..."
Eric Cartman's a genius.
It wouldn't work for John Mayer's songs though, "Jesus's body is a wonderland"......

hahaha Cartman is a genius. Check out episode 12 and 13 of season 10!!! OmG I was rolling on the floor.

Yup2, simon's shop on the first floor. But he usually opens in the evening only.

jeez.. get it correct dude...

so, if we change the song in the lyrics is also counted as song writting?

that was a joke...then again some songs sound terribly similar

the police and that p.diddy tune ( duno issit a cover)

angel by shaggy if i remembered rite also has got some starkling similarties

then there is this long long debate on led zeps tunes, apprently the only proven one that they plagerised was "whole lotta love"

Gizmoduck, I'ill check it out next week after exam.

Just a joke, mate.
Go watch that Southpark episode and you'ill understand.

Isn't the chorus the same as the Police track?

A lot of their songs are very similiar to some old blues tunes, The Lemon Song, Nobody's Fault But Mine, Whole Lotta Love while Babe I'm Leaving You is based on Joan Baez's song.

yea. i knw but try not to simply use that name pls... thanks! btw, im not a southpark fan.. haha! sry..

btw, do u guys most of the time write songs out of emotions or ability or juz simply combine with some chords to bang out a song? i dun hav some certain technique for it but i usually just bang it out from nowhere... haha!

the chorus only? i duno, still its like sooo similar...then considering that most mainstream music uses the chorus to drive their music you could say its semi-stealing.

that ludicrous, in terms of comparing guitars gods, why not includes dance music without vocals as well or back to the basic of the days of mozart, chopin, the classical music that still prevails till now. it all delivers messages and alter the moods. vocals on other hands i believe words are educational in terms of the art of the written words, its also very influential. then again its all depends on personal individual liberty to choose on what they like to listen to.

To threadstarter i wouldn't discourage you from not trying hard to write. if you never try, you'll never learn and you'll never discover yourself.

because malaysia is under "rock culture". If you cant shred then you suck

i thought metal was linked to shred

i duno y but i dont quite like the metal and rock type of malaysian band... kinda noisy for me... but other genre of music besides that is ok for me.

Whatever it is....In malaysia, if you can't shred you suck.

If you can't shred..... your first name better be Mawi.

but i cant shred

I can't shred and my first name is Mawi!!! yay???!

Nah, I think shredding, great as it is, is just a skill. I think that music has evolved in such a way that listeners demand less of the 10 minute solos, but thoughtful lyrics and arrangement too. That's why I always view John Lennon as a better musician than let say Vai. No offense, Vai is a skillful musician in his own right, but he's like Christiano Ronaldo without Rooney, Saha, Ferdinand and Ferguson et al (that analogy is weird but watever hahaha)

So, saying that if you can't shred you suck, is a bit too far fetched. Cuz the way i see it, if you could shred like Vai, Satriani or God forbid Santana, you rule, but if you can't, than you're just a mediocre shredder. So, YOU suck. I hav a friend who does nothing but shred during jamming sessions, showing off and band members get really ticked off cuz of that. I don't think they would be if he can shred like Vai, but he can't. He's good, but not good enough, so HE suck.

Malaysians are still living in the 80's cuz probably those years were the best our country had in terms of everything; progress, arts, economy etc. So we still go back to those years for inspiration and ideas. So that's why people still think that shred pwns, and individual skills rule. But to me, its too self-indulgent and w**king is bad, MmmMmMkaaaAyyY..

(Background music trails off into another Santana solo)

santana cant shred.......i've never heard anything that he shreds.

shredding is a skill and a good one, iits never bad to have another wweapon in your arsenal. shredding is popular cause you can show off, partially make you cool with the guitar. who doesnt want that?

but i totally agree with you, shredding is over-rated. we have soo little guitarists that emphasise on phrasing these days that one might think they are extinct. 10 minuite solos are nice, but it depends on the guitarist's work. if hammet were to do a 10 min then people will fall dead asleep, if gilmour or bbking that was at it i think ppl will cry.

Well, thats the thing you see. If the whole purpose of shredding is to show off, then its not musically motivated anymore is it? And I think 'cool' is such a passe thing, anyhting can be cool these days, you might be a shredding satanist reborn, but if you haven't got personality, you ain't even near being cool.

But I agree with the fact that it is important to have the skills, but when people say that non-shredders suck, i think its a bit unfair, y'know.

edit: Yup Santana can't shred, and he is too old to be fraternizing with young ladies like Michelle Branch However, he does know how to turn a good song into a great song. Recent example: Shakira's "Illegal" is an awesome track because of Santana's fills.

This post has been edited by gizmoduck: Nov 14 2006, 07:17 PM

i just said in malaysia if you can't shred, nobody wants to see you ..or you suck...or something like that.... What did i say again?

ps: Knopfler didn't shred his way to fame, Clapton didn't either. It's just like, "if you can't slap bass you suck" -quote some noob- ... bull

This post has been edited by Bassix: Nov 15 2006, 12:16 AM

Ha. Modern R&B and hip-hop is built around the use of samples. Puff Daddy just happens to be one of the more shameless ones who use entire huge recognisable samples of famous songs wholesale instead of bits of phrases that you actually build around.


Well, uh... I sing it or hum it in my head without words (sometimes with specific phrases or themes in mind). And then I have a hard time trying to make it fit into proper chords because I can never get that feel just right. I suppose you could say it mostly comes out of pure emotion for me; I've never been able to compose something just by playing chords on the guitar.


And I can't shred. And I am damn glad my first name is nowhere near "Mawi".

Go go... post this in Tank and get ready for a flamewar.

Anyway, I would take a good BB King solo over any Vai tune, any day.

i dont mind considering how many flames i started

ic. well, that inspiration just come like that or u got the inspiration from some activities or somethg u do? how u knw when u can write songs? i usually write songs when i feeling extreme... if i m really in bad mood i would write and sometimes very good mood oso will write... usually i start with listening to other people songs..

i cant shred either...

It just comes, usually in pieces, for me. Sometimes, something inspires me specifically; other times, the inspiration helps when putting the pieces together. Like I said, it mostly comes from feel for me.

i got some advise from some song writters before... i mean real song writters that got their own album and famous people... they write thousands of songs each year and only chosen about 11 songs for the only 1 album... for example, steven curtis chapman wrote for about 500+ songs before producing one single album... i cant even write 3 songs per week... these people... so much inspiration.. really gifted and chosen to be singers...