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> MOE: Portuguese invading Melaka were Crusaders

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tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(learn2earn8 @ Jul 9 2015, 02:53 PM)
d'alburque bombarded the town and terrified the inhabitants, being the first time it had ever been shelled by heavy artillery  shocking.gif itu rejimen melayu melaka tak buat life fire training ke? apasal mahu jimat bom?

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/port1.htm

sultan had 20,000 mercenaries, 20 war elephant, 3000 artillery pieces of small calibre guns with little range and firepower. kenapa takde ask for refund dari ottoman sama ming? itu sultan sudah kena tipu oleh salesgirl lah  doh.gif

sultan forces charged at them with bow and arrow, blowpipe, lances, spear and shield. apa ni?! nampaknya itu cannon sama matchlock is for ceremonial purpose  hmm.gif
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LEL ok, for some reason maybe they don't really know how to use those cannons?
At this point of time, cannons were top tech.
And usually the further a canon can shoot, is a big determining factor to the outcome of the war.
And maybe most of the sultans army were bombarded to kingdom come. hmm.gif
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(learn2earn8 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:14 PM)
other than the traitor element, seems most fellas there has no stomach for war. life mus be really good then  laugh.gif
http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/port1.htm
attack on the bridge began, as soon as the first fury of the malay artillery was spent. the trumpets blew and the portuguese fell upon the malay stockade on the bridge. seriously they got no tactical planning and the fancy weapons r for show off, hmmm..... does tis script sound familiar  brows.gif
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Maybe all the ammunition n gunpowder kena songlapped, shoot few rounds no more then lari Liao brows.gif

Maybe one of the reasons is malacca have peace for a long time, n the soldiers all buncit one? hmm.gif
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:18 PM)
But to call it a crusade is just mind blowing
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It's too far to call it a crusade, but it's absolute fact that the Portuguese wanted to convert the local population into Catholics
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:23 PM)
It is clear that European countries that time want to spread gospel

But to call it as crusade, meh.
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Crusade stopped after they sacked Byzantium, during Portuguese conquering malacca, there was no unified Christian agenda. Hence why Spain get America, and Portugal get the other side of the map. Else there would b open war between these two countries
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:29 PM)
Just like when the first crusades was called, to stop the fightings among the Christian kings in Western Europe.
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Nope, there is still war going on between Christian countries, only Portugal n Spain even bother to take this issue to the pope.
At this time, the pope is already losing power in Europe n Protestant n Lutheran Christians a popping up everywhere.
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:32 PM)
Pope just want two of his remaining loyal Catholic country to make peace.

But Portugal use superior geography knowledge to trick huge chunk of South America, Brazil from Spain. This teach us that knowledge is important and
Don't always look at rear view mirror and engage in self serving fantasy of past glory.
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Actually Spain thought they could get to china using that way, discovered America instead.

And yes, this two countries still listen to the pope, others just meh.

Lol I'm not into Europe past glory lol, more interested in Asian history brows.gif
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Jul 9 2015, 03:28 PM)
yang menghairankan mana pergi China time tu ? kalau China datang tolong mesti Melaka ada Sultan sampai sekarang
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Actually china destroyed the Portuguese armada in South China Sea, and dealing with the ambassadors brother Simao, ended up whole Portuguese population in China executed.

And already building armada halfway when Ming dynasty have bigger problems up north and civil war, thus the expedition to malacca was cancelled, the Portuguese armadas destruction caused Albuquerque to panic LEL
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:40 PM)
Well during that time only few german kingdoms and other smaller principalities were Protestants while major kingdoms including England were still Catholic.
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Enough to make the Papal States into a panic frenzy
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(tdzheng @ Jul 9 2015, 03:41 PM)
Actually china destroyed the Portuguese armada in South China Sea, and dealing with the ambassadors brother Simao, ended up whole Portuguese population in China executed.

And already building armada halfway when Ming dynasty have bigger problems up north and civil war, thus the expedition to malacca was cancelled, the Portuguese armadas destruction caused Albuquerque to panic LEL
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OH and Portuguese extension went downhill after that, a while later, china rented out Macau as compensation to the massacred Portuguese resided in canton n fujien
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:46 PM)
See my edited/added reply on that post.
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Oh ok, but still not really a crusade though hmm.gif
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:47 PM)
Doesn't it also coincides with the time when China had their 'close-door' policy (or whatever it's called) ?
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Kind of hmm.gif
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:50 PM)
Using the Portugese as the go-between for the trade between China and Japan right ? Since both China and Japan were not on nice term at that time.
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Well, had it not been Portuguese defeat by china, what happened in malacca WILL happen to Japan.
Portuguese realized Japan is Portuguese last hope of any real trade icon_idea.gif
China banned trade with the Portuguese at that time, n Portugal was afraid of another defeat.
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(hammer2014 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:51 PM)
Never heard of this naval battle. source please. Wikipedia no mention also
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tunmen

Check battle of tamao also (edit)

This post has been edited by tdzheng: Jul 9 2015, 04:03 PM
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:58 PM)
Depends on how one defines a crusade. smile.gif

Some people only think Crusades in term of Christian vs Islam conflict but crusades has been called against others too. The Portugal and Spanish 'crusades' were continuation of of their earlier reconquista, which is the crusades to take (some people like to call it re-take but I digest) the lands from the muslim kingdom in the Iberian peninsular. The reason I use take rather than re-take because when the Rabs conquered Spain, they were under the Visigoth who happened to be the Arian (I think modern Christians called them a heretical sect ?) primarily though some, like the Toledo converted to Roman Catholicism.

So once that part of the mission is complete, the crusades then expand outwards.

Maybe the Pope did not call it a crusade, because the spirit of the crusades has died after the fall of the last Frankish kingdom in the Levant so by calling it a crusade (like have been done by few popes before) might just fall on deaf ears.
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To each their own view I guess smile.gif

QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 03:59 PM)
tongue.gif I don't read much about that part except those involves the Sengoku Jidai. Might have read that up sometimes. Any good sources ? Online preferably lah.
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Yes it was a period of sengoku jidai, when Portuguese arrived to Japan, it was in the early period of Japan's civil war

The Portuguese struck gold literally, Japan was abundant of gold dust, the Portuguese called the island zipangu, literally land of gold laugh.gif

QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Jul 9 2015, 04:02 PM)
Oda Nobunaga
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That was the later period, by that time Japanese warlords already started to manufacture the rifles themselves. icon_idea.gif

Portuguese rifles was very expensive and warlords could only buy hundreds.
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(TheReaderReads @ Jul 9 2015, 04:04 PM)
fellow historians,

Since now we are touching japanese adi.

1) Why is there animosity between china and japan until to-date?

2) Who cause more trouble to each other?

Seem like these has been on-going for centuries!
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LEL, Chinese and Japanese animosity only started in ww2 after the rape of Nanking, before that quite close actually
tdzheng
post Jul 9 2015, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 9 2015, 04:23 PM)
Well the invasion of Korea/China was the final events that started with the invasion of Korea by Toyotomi Hideyoshi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_inva...592%E2%80%9398)
The invasions were launched by Toyotomi Hideyoshi with the intent of conquering Korea and China, which were ruled by the Joseon and Ming dynasties, respectively. Japan quickly succeeded in occupying large portions of the Korean Peninsula, but the contribution of reinforcements by the Ming Dynasty,[21] as well as the disruption of Japanese supply fleets along the western and southern coasts by the Joseon Navyforced a withdrawal of Japanese forces from Pyongyang and the northern provinces to the south, where the Japanese continued to occupy Hanseong (present-day Seoul) and the southern regions except the southwestern Jeolla province.

Turnbull, Stephen (Nov 20, 2012). The Samurai Invasion of Korea 1592-98
Perez, Louis (2013). Japan At War: An Encyclopedia. Santa Barbara, California: ABC-CLIO.
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Yes, but not much animosity, not until WW2, even chiang Kai shek used to have friendly relations before ww2.

Toyotomi's influence pretty much crumbled after that defeat, after he died, Tokugawa took over.

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