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> MOE: Portuguese invading Melaka were Crusaders

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SUSrolling2014
post Jul 9 2015, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(Einjahr @ Jul 9 2015, 02:18 PM)
Christianity was also spread to America
but that itself was no crusade kan?
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In Southeast Asia in World History (New Oxford World History), historian Craig Lockard wrote "Charged by the pope to spread the Catholic faith throughout the world, the Portugese carried out a crusade against Muslims designed to break the Islamic control over the East-West maritime trade" and conquering Melaka, "the source of all spices and drugs which the Moors (Muslims) carry every year (to the Middle East), Cairo and Mecca will be entirely ruined"

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=5IVMCA...0melaka&f=false
http://www.amazon.com/Southeast-Asia-World...d/dp/0195338111
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/sou...9?lang=en&cc=my

This post has been edited by rolling2014: Jul 9 2015, 02:57 PM
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 9 2015, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(hammer2014 @ Jul 9 2015, 02:57 PM)
i
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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In Southeast Asia in World History (New Oxford World History), historian Craig Lockard wrote "Charged by the pope to spread the Catholic faith throughout the world, the Portugese carried out a crusade against Muslims designed to break the Islamic control over the East-West maritime trade" and conquering Melaka, "the source of all spices and drugs which the Moors (Muslims) carry every year (to the Middle East), Cairo and Mecca will be entirely ruined"

btw this book is published by Oxford University Press (OUP). Historians are seeing European early expansion as part of the crusade. it is not really a controversial viewpoint

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=5IVMCA...0melaka&f=false
http://www.amazon.com/Southeast-Asia-World...d/dp/0195338111
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/sou...9?lang=en&cc=my

This post has been edited by rolling2014: Jul 9 2015, 03:10 PM
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 9 2015, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(hammer2014 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:13 PM)
I did mention that the Pope sanctioned the Portuguese and Spainard conquests didn't I?

My point is that "Crusades" are rather old fashioned and inefficient by then. Holy wars costs money to undertake. The only christian power that made money during the crusades are the Italians who traded and also fought the Muslims.

No "Crusades" at the time morphed into colonialism. To colonise and subjugate the native population in order to extract their wealth. Each conquests must be profitable first. The spreading of christianity second.

My point is, it is all about the money and trade. Religion only came close second.

Finally, Crusades evoke the image of a unified European force. Christianity is undergoing a bloody civil war between Protestants and Catholics and all powers are out getting their share of land and gold.
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the portugese "slaughtered the population" and "often forced conversion to Christianity". Other accounts talk about how the portugese upon conquest destroyed mosques and enact churches. conquest of the West-East maritime trade also has a goal to see "Cairo and Mecca will be entirely ruined".

it is a religious first war. their actions actually is counter productive to making profit. melaka declined as a world port after portugese's invasion

the turn to a profit first, religion second operation is completed when british and the malay sultan signed the pangkor treaty effectively accepting Malay rulers and Islam role in tanah melayu. but when the portugese came knocking.. they were religious fanatics..

This post has been edited by rolling2014: Jul 9 2015, 03:31 PM
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 9 2015, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(hammer2014 @ Jul 9 2015, 03:31 PM)
Nope. The portugese didn't destroy Yokohama in Japan for example. The Japanese confined them to that port and allowed trade. The portugese then traded and set up their churches.

Same with China and Macau.
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as Craig Lockard wrote "..crusade against Muslims (is) designed to break the Islamic control over the East-West maritime trade"

when portugal conquered melaka, they announced to drive out "the moors (muslims) from the country". the chinese and japanese are not the target here. after all trade in japan and china doesn't hold the promise of that "Cairo and Mecca will be entirely ruined".

This post has been edited by rolling2014: Jul 9 2015, 05:07 PM
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 10 2015, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(hammer2014 @ Jul 10 2015, 09:50 AM)
My point is that their invasion on Malacca is not primarily about religion. It is about profit and control of luxury goods to make more money. Religion comes after.

The Portugese in the 16th century is quite different compared to the 11th and 12th century. They are less religiously retarded then.

Money and trade is their prime motivation. They don't cause problems with Japan or China because 1. they are military weak against them. 2. they are allowed to make money and trade.

Had Malacca agreed to let the Portugese trade freely I doubt the they would bother to attack Malacca, afterall, even when they took over they got boycotted.

Point is, Money talks. The Pope's orders and desires come after Money and Trade have been secured.
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If the portugese wanted to trade, they would have follow other merchants who were profit minded.. But historian Craig Lockard wrote the portugese didnt act like the other peaceful asian merchants. They violated local customs and antoganize local officials. They considered the Sultan treacherous for not welcoming them. Not behaviours of traders concerned with profit. The book noted the Sultan felt the intention of the portugese were unclear.

as Craig Lockard wrote "..crusade against Muslims (is) designed to break the Islamic control over the East-West maritime trade". It is not that they just want to trade with malacca. They want to conquer malacca to break Islamic control over the maritime trade.They want to see Mecca and Cairo ruined as a result.

Their religious fanaticism got in the way of profit even after they conquered malacca. Orders were given to drive out the Moors (Muslims) from the country (Malacca), the invaders slaughtered the population and forced religious conversion. a profit primary operation would avoid destroying the population to gain maximum returns. Craig Lockard wrote due to high tax and hostility against non Christians, tradeships avoided malacca. Inlstead of making profit, portugal because of their religious fanaticism saw malacca declined as a world port

Similar anti Muslims objectives is not directed to China and Japan well cause they are not Moors (Muslims).

This post has been edited by rolling2014: Jul 10 2015, 01:20 PM
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 11 2015, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(allanlee89 @ Jul 11 2015, 10:15 AM)
nope, when ang moh come, was to plunge wealth, tats what dey care, itu priest cuma ikut belakang je. But isis, tengok permainan their, everydy war in the name of god
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The portugese are religious fanatics.

In Southeast Asia in World History (New Oxford World History), historian Craig Lockard wrote "Charged by the pope to spread the Catholic faith throughout the world, the Portugese carried out a crusade against Muslims designed to break the Islamic control over the East-West maritime trade" and conquering Malacca, "the source of all spices and drugs which the Moors (Muslims) carry every year (to the Middle East), Cairo and Mecca will be entirely ruined". The book also said upon conquering Malacca, the Portugese issued orders to "drive out the Moors (Muslims) out of the country", slaughtered the population and forced religious conversion.

published by Oxford University Press (OUP). You should read it. not really a controversial viewpoint

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=5IVMCA...0melaka&f=false
http://www.amazon.com/Southeast-Asia-World...d/dp/0195338111
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/sou...9?lang=en&cc=my
SUSrolling2014
post Jul 11 2015, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Parker @ Jul 11 2015, 03:19 PM)
Yeah people used to kill and conquer each other in the past about religion. So u not happy? Want to continue to open old wounds?
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Used to would be inaccurate... it goes on today

ISIS kills in the name of Islam..

Bush, a Christian, said he invaded Iraq and destroyed millions of life because God told him to.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...aq-6262644.html

Israel bulldoze Palestinians houses, terrorize and murder people and kick them out of their lands partly because God tell them that is their land.


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