QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Jul 11 2015, 02:02 PM)
Did i said sin should not be punish? I only state that death as a punishment is wrong. I'm in no way contradicting myself.
That is why i ask you to define innocent in the eye of the GOD or Human.
Go read the bible. GOD kill the first born because of pharaoh which HE hardens his(pharaoh) heart? Stupid reason to be honest. He can just soften pharaoh hearts and let the people go but no one lead to the other then death.
And HE needs how many? 1000 of years to think of how to sacrifice HIS son? Sacrifice?
I'm done by the way deviated from the topic. Bible as a literature is good but to follow it a resounding NO. Some are not right in the Bible. Best of all is to follow GOD rather than the Bible which is written by many authors.
Well IMO, God has that right to give and take away Life since after all He is the Owner of it all.
I'm of the opinion, God knows better than most of us in every situation and thus when He metes out Judgement it is by his Omniscience knowledge.
We Human are limited in many ways and do not know the real situation. We may assume but may not be right.
God gave the pharaoh more than enough, warnings/signs to let his people go. The Pharaoh should have let go by the first few warnings but relented.
I mean anyone could see the first few plagues already indicate, this is not a small matter. And it's not just ordinary plague.
The Killing of the first born is the final judgement, the only way Pharaoh would relent.
I'm sure you won't think it's stupid if God is the one protecting you against enemies more powerful than you.
No, He already thought of Sacrificing Jesus in the very first chapter of Genesis itself. God provided the Salvation Plan immediately the moment after Adam sinned.
As to why it took so long for Jesus to arrive? God gave the Law in the OT to cause Man to come to the end of himself. God already knew Man can be terribly stubborn to admit it.
It's just that Man has to realize it himself before admitting. And the pride of Man sometime don't want to admit defeat.
God gave Man more than 1000 years and say enough is enough and sent Jesus at the right time.
QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Jul 11 2015, 02:36 PM)
I guess that you probably have chosen not to realize that's the same issues happened to the muslims too. The bold part. You pretty much quick to judge what for example the ISIS is doing now to represent Islam because it suits your own prejudiced perception, while quick to judge me for having false perception (as you claimed) of your religion when all my citations given were basically as what your co-religionist had preaches, and made it as the 2000 years of Christian history simply does not exist.
Don't you even think that's hypocritical ?
TLDR, when Christians, bearing the cross on their mantle, on their sails, shouting God Wills It before they plunge their cross-like swords into the body of their enemies you just brush them aside with pick and choose text from the bible saying them unblibical. Didn't you say that Jesus and God is one ? The he/they must be a confuse god because one says another thing while the other part of the triumvirate are actually doing another thing.
However, when ISIS chop off people's head why crying Allah, you in no time will proudly and boldly claim, 'This is Islam and that is what the Qur'an teaches'. As much as I am ignorant of your 'book' don't you think that you are as much ignorant of mine ?
Luckily, some of your bretherens think otherwise.
For example, this Jwweish Catholic schoolgirl said, and I quote :
As the Qur'an promises, patience is rewarded, and there are many surprises -- a degree of environmental awareness, for instance, and of humans as mere stewards of God's creation, unmatched in the Bible. And where the Bible is addressed exclusively to men, using the second and third person masculine, the Qur'an includes women -- talking, for instance, of believing men and believing women, honorable men and honorable women. Or take the infamous verse about killing the unbelievers. Yes, it does say that, but in a very specific context: the anticipated conquest of the sanctuary city of Mecca where fighting was usually forbidden, and the permission comes hedged about with qualifiers. Not "You must kill unbelievers in Mecca," but you can, you are allowed to, but only after a grace period is over and only if there's no other pact in place and only if they try to stop you getting to the Kaaba, and only if they attack you first. And even then -- God is merciful; forgiveness is supreme -- and so, essentially, better if you don't. This was perhaps the biggest surprise -- how flexible the Qur'an is, at least in minds that are not fundamentally inflexible. ~ Lesley Hazleton
Better watch the video here (not you, surely I don't think you'll be interested but for neutral observers).
http://www.ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_o...ipt?language=enThe full transcript :
I will end this Jihad/Crusade with the obligatory recitation of the Qur'an (again, to those neutrals, not to you).
"So her Lord accepted her with gracious acceptance and caused her to grow an excellent growth and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah visited her in the chamber, he found with her provisions. He said, 'O Mary whence hast thou this ?' She replied, ‘It is from God.’ Surely God gives to whomsoever HE pleases without measure.
Then and there did Zachariah pray to his Lord, saying, 'My Lord grant me from Thyself pure offspring; surely thou art the Hearer of Prayer.'
And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the chamber, 'God gives thee glad tidings of John (the Baptist), who shall testify to the truth of a word from God - noble and chaste and a Prophet, from among the righteous.
He said 'My Lord, how shall I have a son, when old age has overtaken me already, and my wife is barren?' He answered, 'Such is the way of God; HE does what HE pleases,'
He said 'My Lord, give me a commandment.' He replied, 'The commandment for thee is that thou shalt not speak to men for three days except by signs.
And remember thy Lord much and glorify HIM in the evening and in the early morning.' And remember when the angels said, 'God has chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above all women of the time.
'O Mary, be obedient to thy Lord and prostrate thyself and worship the one God with those who worship HIM.'
This is of the tidings of things unseen which WE reveal to thee. And thou was not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor was thou with them when they disputed with one another.
When the angels said, 'O Mary, God gives thee glad tidings of a son through a word from HIM; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
'And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of the righteous.
She said, 'My Lord, how shall I have a son, when no man has touched me? He said, 'Such is the way of God. HE creates what HE pleases. When HE decrees a thing HE says to it ‘Be,’ and it is;"—Qur'an, Surah 3:38-48
"Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' Jesus said, 'I am a servant of God. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet; 'And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; 'And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless; 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.' That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt."—Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs."—Qur'an, Surah 4:171
"Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!"—Qur'an, Surah5:575
"We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Jeusu son of Mary, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if God had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if God had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but God brings about what He intends."—Qur'an, Surah 2:253
"And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."—Qur'an, Surah 5:116
"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"—Qur'an, Surah 9:30
"When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)! And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people. He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel."—Qur'an, Surah 43:57-59
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me."—Qur'an, Surah 43:63
Hypocritical?
Aren't you the one who is picking and choosing Bible verses to suit your own agenda?
I did explain everything in context, didn't I? I did show you the entire passage linking to each other while you only pick certain verse and leave out the rest, did you not?
And you dare to accuse intellectual dishonesty to me? Amazing. Some people don't know malu one hor?
There is one problem though. I quoted that the reason why there is so much problem in the OT is due to the Vanity of Man in their own self righteousness to be justified by the law of God.
Your religion still hinges on the Law of God to be justified, I don't see How you can equate that Islam is going through same thing we did ages ago because you have nothing but the Laws of God pitted against you.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 11 2015, 10:01 PM 
MOE: Portuguese invading Melaka were Crusaders 
Jul 11 2015, 08:55 AM
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Bro This is wrong.
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