ty for the info.

my wc seller source told me that he may have stock for 1080 with custom waterblock with together soon.




my only issue is.... if i do get the reference design, i rather avoid founder edition, and instead get the AIB reference design that will most likely cost 100usd less.

for me my budget is probably a non founder reference aib with a water cooling block.



looking at the performance charts 1080p (or for me 1920x1200 ) performance at ultra settings will be fine in all games. and even 8gb vram is ample enough for my needs (with 2gb vram i keep getting crashes in tos every now and then citing gpu vram as a likely source >_>: maybe i run too many stuff in background or my gpu is spoilt).

4k seems playable but it's not a steady 60 fps, but more like 30-50fps from what i see in the charts. these are fps at 4k with ultra settings by the way. probably playable but the dream is 60 fps or more at 4k

me personally, as long as i can 1920x1200 at ultra, i'm perfectly fine with. Also as a bonus the pascal comes with 10bit HEVC (i'm also assuming it does 10bit h264 as well?) support which will be great for anime viewing via madvr/hc-mpc/lav filters for reduced banding, also better 10bit colors which my monitor is capable of.

for a 980ti user i doubt going to a 1080 is really worth it, but for me coming from a 2012 680gtx it's definitely worth it. probably even better if i can wait 2 more years for volta when HBM2 comes out, but not too worried about that. the only improvement i see for a volta is mostly making 4k ultra settings at playable frame rates more consistent. Other than that the pascal seems to do what i need it to do (assuming they didn't screw up on the async compute for dx12 games).







http://www.anandtech.com/show/10326/the-nv...-1080-preview/2

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: May 20 2016, 06:47 AM

by the way when does AIB reference cards come out ? is it in june ?

in the pod cast discussing 1080 they cover whether the pascal is true async compute or not. it isn't but they do bring up a good point.

at the end of the day does the game with async compute enabled, is there a situation where the 1080 would under perform allowing a weaker amd card beat it becauz of this? the answer seems to be a know.

whether they are simply pandering to nvidia as fanboys i'm not sure, hence why i would rather rely on multiple sources on this subject, but thats their opinion.

but to my understanding they added 2 things for nvidia's way to handle async.





Source:
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Card...al-Gamers/Async

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: May 20 2016, 04:14 PM

but even for people with no monitors that support 4k resolution, they can use the mode that converts 4k sources to their monitor native resolution. the benefit being an affect similar to AA ? is it worth using 4k in that way, or to just simply use SMAA at 1080p without doing that?

oo then sounds like 4k is not relevant to me then since my monitor doesn't natively do 4k anyway.

personally i didn't experience 4k yet... but wasn't 4k suppose to benefit big screen tvs in the living room? Whereas for pc monitor where you sit closer, for sizes like 24'' to maybe like 36'' 1080p was good enuff ?

only the bigger pixel sized screens would mostly benefit from 4k i thought?

wow just saw this




judging by this ...


pascal is maxwell on steroids pretty much but refined. except that async compute though improved, still is brute force and not the hardware solution like amds we were hoping for. if compared to amd which shows performance gains with async compute and dx12, the pascals wasn't that impressive.

but at the end of the day i'm sure all that matters is the FPS regardless of the inefficiencies present. so i feel that peoples gripe with 1080 async implementation is had they followed a route similar to amds for it, they would have managed to make the pascal even more efficient and thus living up to the dx12 dream or reduced overheads = increase fps.

maybe volta will indeed have those architectural changes to fix this issue once and for all, but theres no info if that is the case or not.

i did read and they did explain the differences. you'll just have to google the sources like i did.

but bottomline the result of async on/off performance. this picture pretty much sums why it matters



but at the end of the day, if graphics a fps is still higher despite being less efficient compared to product b's better async compute method, guess who wins?

but... if amd can achieve a fps result quite close to pascal which costs a lot more.... then people may go for team red if you get more bang for your bucks (assuming they aren't already locked down with a gsync monitor). though their gonna have to wait for amds new cards to come out, so nvidia has the better timing


*update

found someone who explained some of the more techie stuff if your interested






source:
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Card...al-Gamers/GPU-B



so in layman terms what does this all mean?

1. amds hardware async compute is the way to go, and is the right way to do it.
2. the performance chart clearly shows the performance difference between async compute enabled/disabled. see which card has the better gains when the feature is enabled? so that itself goes to show amd did it right.


that said it still seems that even with it's inefficiencies, the 1080 is still doing more fps regardless. so i'd still get a pascal when upgrading from my 680. But the question here is, if amd new card comes out, and if it's cheaper, will it be able to out perform or get close to fps of a 1080 at a cheaper price point ? thats the million dollar question nvidia would lose out on the bang for bucks title if that were the case.

if you had a 980 or 980ti, it's probably better to skip over pascal and just wait for a volta imho. but for me with a 680 upgrading now is fine.

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: May 20 2016, 11:21 PM

this is exactly what i was worried about

a premium (founder edition) ontop of a premium (for waterblock)
http://www.techpowerup.com/222608/colorful...-1080-fe-bundle


is better i wait for the cheaper aib version with support for a third party water block. i'd pay premium for waterblock (water cooling pc rigs is expensive wut to do ), but not also for the stock fan cooler i won't be using fuk nvidias early adopter tax


well i've heard worse thick accents then that in scotland. his to me is understandable. some scottish people, their accents are so thick it's hard to understand at times anyway the bottomline is whether you understood what he was saying or not despite his accent. cauz after all if u did understand and he told you your about to drive off a cliff yet u ignored the warning and you died in a car accident, guess who pays the price for ignoring the facts? i'm not saying you have to believe every word he says, but if the whole basis for derailing everything he said on little inconsequential stuff, then thats a bit silly to put it politely

yeah he was relying on other reviewers stats, but if they are credible sources, i see nothing wrong with that. as long as he reported their stats correctly (it's up to the reader to verify his sources if they feel it's incorrect or suspicious). also he at least reference multiple sources who have slightly different results to get a better idea of the performance... so i didn't see anything wrong with that personally i try to read multiple reviews to see the general consensus if possible.


i'll give it a week or month see what other consumers think about it first

even hardocp came down hard on critisizing nvidia, so got to wait
http://hardocp.com/article/2016/05/18/gefo...per_launch_ever



This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: May 21 2016, 07:02 AM

don't get me wrong it definitely still beats a 980ti, but the gains arent that earth shattering. if i had a 980ti i would not waste money on the upgrade. if i had money to waste why not, when your rich you don't give a shit about the cost kek.


for me coming from a 680gtx, getting 1080 isn't too big a deal. EXCEPT when it comes to this FE which i feel may most likely be a rip off considering they marked it up 100usd more than their own msrp.





but the thing is, the pricing is too close to that of a 980ti .. so even spec wise we can already see it was positioned as a direct replacement for the 980, it's still going to be compared to 980ti if only cauz it cost nearly as much. Just imagine how much would a 1080ti would cost thats why i'm not going to hold my breath waiting on that one.



yes i agree with you the eternal wait for something better is just a never ending quest. but if the wait only 1-2 months to get a more reasonable deal on a better longer term investment, for me that is worth the wait (obviously i can't speak for others who just want the card now. go for it.) but i'm not gonna wait like 5months + because that will be too late, by then there will be a 1080ti, or even worse it will be too close to the volta which presumably may be the true new architecture for that 60fps gaming at ultra max settings for 4k resolution (and maybe even finally a true async compute), but most definitely it will have HBM2 which will be in 8gb vram at minimum.

i'm also still on kepler. planning on going pascal after a short wait for things to cool down after launch.

you planning on going pascal too? or you gonna wait for the 1080ti or volta? just wondering.

fair enuff.

yeh as a budget minded gamer, i tend to skip over sli. heck even nvidia is forcing users to settle with 2, cauz gaming performance doesn't scale well with 3-4 sli cards. only 2 seems to have reasonable gains even then.... single gpu has the best value :]

someone asked me earlier what async is all about. found a video that explains the situation




bottomline
- nvidia async is inefficient compared to amd
- but at end of day if the card fps performance still wins regardless of any inefficiencies, then this shouldn't be too big an issue. only tech wise people wish it did have proper hardware async compute similar to amds, so we can get good performance and latencies using that feature.

which is the cheapest best deal 1080 that has water cooling? preferably third party water cooling block rather than AIO water cooling.


The Asus Strix 1080 was said by EK to be supported by one of their water blocks. And this is the performance review for the card. pricing for the strix is also cheaper than the founders by 100usd supposedly, and also when compared to the other brands.
http://videocardz.com/60631/asus-rog-strix...or-overclocking

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-stri...aled,31905.html


there are 2 versions for this asus strix, the oc edition being clocked higher
-ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 OC Edition
-ROG Strix GeForce


somebody however pointed out that EVGA 1080 non founders reference card could be even cheaper. but i have no idea if it has a compatible water block
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=08G-P4-5180-KR


i too am beginning to wonder that reference (non founder preferably...) AIB if cheapest to go for that. i'd still do water cooling because for my pc usage i leave on for long hours. Also water cooling doesn't only keep it cool temps, it also reduces fan noise. personally i still find water cooling good for me still.

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 6 2016, 05:26 AM

that sucks hard


yes this is likely to be the case. but considering pricing and the time to release a 1080ti, and the time soon after that a volta gets released, to be honest i'm not bothered waiting on ti. at most what people can expect out of a 1080ti is 4k 60fps+ on average with ultra quality settings, but other than that the 1080 is very capable, even at 4k it can do ultra at 30-45 ish fps which isn't too bad if not perfect.

they're estimating a pascal titan is 999 usd minimum... with roughly an estimated 40 to 50% better than GP104 in terms of performance.
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gp102-gp...-graphics-card/



Anyway my sources tell me there will be stock for asus strix in 2-3 weeks. so i'm gonna be waiting on that one

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 7 2016, 04:02 AM

is palit brand good? i'm aware in the past they made some aibs with lots of vram on them, but other than that hm....

is there a chart yet comparing all the aibs out there together ?



some more info about the asus strix 1080



so theres something about pascal vbios capping voltage. so i wonder if the asus custom vbios lifts this limitation? otherwise what then is the point going 2 pin (8+6) power connector ?



i heard this could be useful for watercooling systems, as the card won't get throttled if you configure it a certain to use this pwm fan ports or some such?

there will be 2 models for this, one is OC edition and the other is not. I'll get OC version since i rather not do that myself.





asus strix 1080 reviews and other sources
http://videocardz.com/60631/asus-rog-strix...or-overclocking

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-05/asus-ge...-strix-oc-test/

http://www.pureoverclock.com/2016/05/asus-...aders-say-what/

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-stri...aled,31905.html

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 7 2016, 04:27 AM

from the info i gathered


ZOTAC GTX 1080 AMP! Exteme is best looking in my personal opinion (if your interested in fan cooling gpu)



best performing aib, not sure yet......

best warranty/upgrading/customer service is the EVGA 1080. In comparison i did not hear anything good about Asus in this area.

cheapest aib brand, Asus Rog Strix (custom), and evga reference (non founder). Maybe there is cheaper but i'm not aware which.


the best bang for buck award goes to 1070, but for those of us who want to get whats best available theres the 1080. But at this rate founder edition = sucket edition. So lots of us waiting on the aib models that are cheaper. That said founder edition as far as i know is a blower type fan cooler, so for some people may opt for that if it's more suitable for their rigs i suppose. But if going water cooling, may as well get the cheaper AIB models instead since won't be using the provided fan.

For the Asus Strix at least, i know 2 brands of water cooling brands going to provide the water blocks for it.


here is the full list of all 1080 variants available
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2839/geforce-gtx-1080



This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 7 2016, 04:21 AM

4k i don't think theres enough video content for it to be worth much. even for small size screens like 24'' ish 1080p works just fine.

maybe if people use bigger screens that will justify 1440p and eventually 4k..... the thing is, can your table top fit a bigger monitor? also the bigger it is, you may need to sit back further for such a bigger monitor. not to mention more pricier monitor the bigger you go.... also gpu needs to be pretty good to get good fps for those higher reso monitors.... so can the pascal do 60fps average at ultra settings for gaming?

Another consideration, the videos i watch are mostly 1080p, so watching on higher res screen the quality becomes more rubbish because it's not native reso..... if u try watch 1080p source on a different reso...

but for gaming some support 4k reso output.... so gaming there is an option for it (for some newer titles), but if it's for tv series/movies most of what i've seen is still 1080p

bottomline, 1440p gaming on a 1080p max settings definitely playable with good fps. still questions about 4k ultra going to reso's above 1080p has other considerations to look at whether it be the content you watch or the price tag that comes with going to a bigger screen.


PS: if you do get new monitor, those acer predator gsyncs look damn good. ah-ips with high refresh rates, low input latencies, low ghosting etc....

good monitor review site
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/



*update

just saw the review for this 4k monitor it says


does that mean you can watch 1080p content on the 4k monitor without image quality reduction?
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb271hk.htm




This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 7 2016, 03:13 PM

only 4k i saw was on a 51'' HDTV becauz was considering whether to get 4k tv or not, whether any point for astro content Looked nice but i'm sure the demos were running 4k content.

so watching on 1440p 1080p stuff won't add more black bars will it?

i'm using a dell u2413 24'' GBR monitor. colors look great, though for gaming it lacks gsync so stuck at 60hz refresh using triple vsync buffering....

also my table top can't fit a bigger monitor, as well as the existing 24'' is plenty big enough for my vision... so i don't particularly feel the need for going up to 27'' and above.... also the other reason, 1440p required a more stronger card to run in ultra settings at native reso, but for pascal this is not an issue any longer. even a 980ti was pretty acceptable, but i did not hop on that bandwagon.




did not know this but does resolve some of my concerns going for higher reso...


this i did know. and was why i stuck to a reso closer to 1080p because of this very reason.


yeah i forgot this point. as far as i know 4k is capped at 60... compared to 1440p reso monitors that reach up to 144hz... if not mistaken

for a gamer they may prefer faster refresh.... i would anyway

here is a review of the 1070 that explores the question, should the bang for buck user skip over the 1080 and go for the 1070?

read here
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/06/06/..._edition_review



This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jun 7 2016, 06:55 PM