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 Electricity consumption, Query

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weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 10:33 AM)
normal island and peninsular house. I went up to the roof when we did the renovations, no insulation. at that time, no budget for insulation cause of costs overrun and lousy contractors who messed up stuff.

only my bathrooms and kitchen has the ventilation fan. did not think to put it anywhere else.

for ventilation, normally what we do is keep the fan on for a short while and open the windows to circulate the air. its not effective but no other way unless I spend big to do ventilation fans and insulation.
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Perhaps you want to monitor how your maid use electricity, is your fridge regularly open for long? And you have any PC running for long hours?

Sometime small things will add up. e.g.
- if you have downlight of 2 bulbs, it take say 36watt, and switching on for 1 month will use minimal 27 units of electric.
- cctv, one unit is about 5watt, if you have 4 units is about 20watt, and switch on for 1 month will use about 15 units. DVR may take up another 10 units.
- Vacuum if use 2 hours a week, it may take up to 8 units a month.

weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 12:21 PM)
yup, was also worried about the maid, hence the reason why yesterday, I went back home and switched off all the air conditioners via remote and brought it upstairs to my room. at least I now know that the air conditioners down stairs will not be used without my knowledge. I also advised the maid to switch off all unnecessary lights (1 light switch controls 2 18 watt LED downlights) when not in use. this morning, before coming to work, the downstairs was pitch dark. good to know she actually listens to me.

She doesn't know how to use the oven, so I am safe there, anyhow, I unplugged it last night.

She does use the deep fryer and microwave. but we don't deep fry much or for any length of time.

we don't have any cctv yet, but wiring all done.

no pc also. IT illiterate.

vacuum cleaner is a 2800 watt Electrolux. used once in two days to vacuum all the carpets in the house. total time for vacuuming is +/- 2 90 minutes.

Right now I think, my biggest electricity culprit are the air conditioners and the storage water heater.

I made a list of all the big ticket items at home and made a mental note to keep track of the usage of these things.

air-conditioners
storage water heater
water pump
deep fryer
clothes dryer
oven
electric kettle

did I miss out on any other big ticket items?
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Want to check how frequent the ac being use? open up check the filter. If its use regularly the filter will be dusty. And is good to clean it too.

Your Vacuum take a fair bit. 90mins use is about 4units. That about 32 units a month.

Is your washing machine using hot water? that also take a fair bit.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 8 2015, 12:31 PM
weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 12:34 PM)
the most frequent air conditioners being used are the two upstairs.
the rest rarely unless my maid has been using behind my back.
it shud still be running at optimum since I have only been using it for less than 3 months.

vacuum can do much. I have two very young kids plus a cat. so the vacuuming is a must for the cat hair and spilled food.
nope. washing machine no hot water. in fact, the only areas in the house with access to how water are the 3 upstairs bathrooms.
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If yours a Front loading washing machin, by default set temperature to 65c (at least for the LG I am using)

Sometime due to requirements/lifestyle we can't reduce electric usage. Time for a rainbow vacuum cleaner smile.gif
weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 12:43 PM)

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His reply is correct, if use only switch on. But you wash hand, wash face, brush teeth all short usage will also switch on the pump. That will be usage right? So his answer what you ask, but not what the usage
weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Jul 8 2015, 01:43 PM)
Just how low is your water pressure anyways?

If only rain shower not power enough, do they sell pump just for this purpose?
Im interested to know too
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This will required special piping, or use instant water heater that usually don't give you good rain shower pressure.
weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 04:02 PM)
the airconds I consistently use are in the bedrooms, so hardly any open and shut of doors once we sleep.
my current bedrooms are about +/-250sqft each. I think the rooms at my old place would be about +/-170sqft.
the difference are the air conditioners used. the old condo, I used national brand 1hp non inverter air-conditioners, each maybe about 10 to 12 years old. the temp I used to set was about 21c with the second fan.
the new place, I used York 1hp inverters with temp set at 26c with the lowest fan.
I am also pretty sure that it is the air conditioning. will have to figure this out soon.

the clothes dryer I have reduced usage to about 90% since I am on landed property now.
oven was also used at the old condo about the same number of hours.
also used the same deep fryer.
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1HP for 250 sqft is way small leh.
weikee
post Jul 8 2015, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 8 2015, 04:14 PM)
lets just say, for argument sake, the air conds are underpowered, it still should not cost more than the non inverter air conds (12 year old) which I set at 21/22c with the second lowest fan right
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Lowest fan compressor still running and try cooling the room to the set temperature. For Argument sake, even if you run 12 hours at 100% capacity of your a/c, it will cost you roughly 300 units. that mean you will be paying RM 150 only.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 9 2015, 10:14 AM)
ok guys..

this is my electrical consumption

Day 1
7am - 4483kwh
7pm - 4490kwh

Day 2
7am - 4516kwh
7pm - 4523kwh

Day 3
7am - 4549kwh

From the above, my usage on:
Day 1 - 7pm 4490kwh to Day 2 - 7am is 4516kwh is 26kwh.
Day 2 - 7pm 4523kwh to Day 3 - 7am is 4529kwh is 26kwh.

Big ticket items used between 7pm to 7am where I used up 26kwh worth of electricity are:-

2 units of inverter 1 hp air cond from 10pm to 7am
2800watt vacuum for 30 minutes
LCD 50 inch Samsung tv for 3 hours
500 watt grundfos water pump for 10 minutes
50 liter joven storage water heater for 10 minutes

No other big ticket items used. Does all these usage justify the 26kwh?
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Your night energy don't add up leh? if you have 1hp inverter x 2 unit switch on 9 hours each. Assuming you running 100% full blast, say 800watt / hours. Is 800watt x 2 x 9 = 14,400 Watt Hour. round up to 15Kwh.

Where your 9 KWH go?
01) {vacuum} Say 0.5 hour x 2.8 KW = 1.4Kwh
02) 10mins x 3,000 watt water heater = 1/6 x 3,000 watt = 0.5 Kwh

Others are small items.

- You sure you running 1HP inverter and not 2HP inverter?
- Anyone stealing your electric?

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 9 2015, 10:32 AM
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 9 2015, 10:38 AM)
yup. very sure I am running on 1hp York inverter. you can check. the series is y5wmy10pf-amlga. year of manufacture 2014. cooling capacity is 9100btu
the aircond was not even on full blast.
the setting was 26c, lowest fan and I had the ceiling fan on at the lowest speed.

so I don't know where the additional +/-9kwh came from.
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Something very fishy, maybe after 10pm, you monitor every hour how many units you use till 12-1am.

You may want to trip the remaining mcb to make sure no one stealing your house electric.

If nothing seem to solve this, can request tnb to check the meter or change to a new meter.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(sah147 @ Jul 9 2015, 10:49 AM)
This is a cool (heh) idea! Mind sharing how you do it? Where does the ventilation fan vent to? The space between the roof and ceiling?  notworthy.gif
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Yes, just push the air up to the roof attic will do.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jul 9 2015, 10:51 AM)
I'm afraid that the electricity usage calculation is not straight calculation as calculated by weikee. Load are not pure resistance since there is also inductive load from compressor. No matter how much phase is corrected or how efficient is your inverter air-conditioner, the reactive or capacitive load will result in unproductive power, the reactive power. The meter used by TNB calculates both active and reactive power unfortunately  smile.gif
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Don't forget we are charge by energy use, it doesn't charge us with current x voltage. for consumer PF can be ignore.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(sah147 @ Jul 9 2015, 10:54 AM)
rclxms.gif Any suggestions for the model of fan? Some are particularly noisy though  cool.gif
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I am using the KDK 8" ventilation fan. IF you want something silent have to go with more expensive stuff like AireGard but you have to get a real expensive model to match with the same CFM level with the KDK.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 11:46 AM)
I had forgotted to turn off my water storage tank 25L from 7am to 8pm the extra charge from just turn on power on is around 5 - 8kwh extra

If don't believe just try to leave it from morning till after work and see how many kW from the meter to compare as normally
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Nope, I own 2 storage heaters, and purposely leaving it on for few days. The extra was about 2kw
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 9 2015, 11:53 AM)
I am leaking electricity somewhere!! but not sure where. 26/27kwh for 12 hours from 7pm to 7am doesn't seem right...
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What i would do is check your meter accuracy. Like switching off everything, and leaving one A/C running max at lowest temperature for 1 or 2 hours, see if really clock more than it suppose, or accurate.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 12:04 PM)
Not sure about your?

Mine is before moving in, and usually will monitor the meter run before I going off.

But here is S'pore
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Doesn't matter where you are. The working concept of storage is to retain the heat, and if not used the heat still there and the heating element will not run.


weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 10:49 PM)
Water instant heater won't drink the energy lah, just you press the button then heat up only

But water storage tank is different story.
Once you power on may cook & boiling the water and keep it warm until temp are drop to be heat up again.

Again 2500w = 2.5hp + 1hp Aircon power input watt
user posted image

Very simple work.. A day from 7am to 8pm in between has 3 time of boiling, on each boiling to be 2.5kwh x 3 times = 7.5kwh.. Maybe you wanna try to understand the work out
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You have to understand, the reheating don't take up so much time. If the temperature is to reboil at 60, and cutoff at 70c (usually), it will take shorter time from 60c to 70c. Unless you have a leak in the one way valve where hot water is always move out from the storage than your storage will operate 24x7. Or your unit is so lousy that it doesn't come with any heat insulator which I think is impossible because singapore will bad such bad things.

I am using 35L, 3000watt storage water heater, once it reach the preset temperate 70c, it take at least 1/2 day before the reheat take place and it only take like 5mins to reheat.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 9 2015, 11:08 PM
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 07:53 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 11:20 PM)
the bill is charge to me and not your, that is what I paid for, if each day I turn on 24 hrs to be extra charge, do you care about it?

Talk is simple thing, please do a proper calculate on morning time the 1st power on to be boiling will be clock on how many kWh do you record down? After reboil how many kWh? Again keep warm and How many KWh per hours?

If never turn on the power from morning till evening and where is the extra charge from?

Maybe your is inverter and using lesser power like 250w only
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Why you so ku ku one? Maybe ignorance is really a Bliss. No all thing using inverter will save money. Heating element is one . I am using two 35L storage, and been testing it before I move it. Left it switch on over night, it uses ~3.5kwh, I purposely do this to check the insulation and valve have any problem.

When the storage is with room temperature water, it take only 1.5kwh per storage to heat up the water, this i Measured too. It work out pretty close to what in the spec as it state required 30mins to heat the water to 70c from room temperature.

Many occasion we forgot to switch off the storage and when we came back from work only notice. Still the usage are only extra of 1Kwh at most.

If your storage have valve leaking, yes it on more frequent. And if you have doubt, just put a watt meter in between to monitor. Simple.
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 10 2015, 08:14 AM)
Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only.

That is just for standby or maybe, you never write the on others usage like mixer tap for use on hot water or take rain shower in the morning time.

Maybe you are right.. The meter is located on outdoor my unit.
Usually won't clock that much, just only a while and forgotten and meter run few more kWh, that is very simple for who didn't turn off water storage tank only.

If like that then you just tells your customers can be able to turn on power n even not in used for water storage tank and see how they feedback you the right answer?

If the water storage tank won't draw a higher current and won't be burned on power socket at all.
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What do you mean by "Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only."? I never mention 2.5 days nor 2kwh. And I really CANNOT understand what you trying to say!


And I did not say Storage don't drain power. Storage heater drain power, but for a short period of time when it reheat the water inside.

Also, I never say leaving storage switch on is not going to use extra energy, I am proving to you leaving it on does not take that much energy that you calculate. You can understand or not? Your calculation are wrong and misleading.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 10 2015, 08:32 AM
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 10 2015, 11:30 AM)
wow you really dont want to understand this it? first of even your calculation is completely useless. 3 boils for 1 hour? come on? who believes that? where got? if you boil like that after one hour the water is gone to steam. pls think first.

so this calculation bears absolutely no relevance. others told you already how the heater works. if you refuse to accept this reality i cant help you. believe what you want. some believe in unicorns, some believe their waterheater has 3 boilings a day and each boil uses 2.5kwh. heck some even believe in the flying spaghetti monster. so if it calms you down, believe it. it has however no relation to reality in any way.
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You know some people just plain ignorance biggrin.gif
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Jul 10 2015, 11:49 AM)
Okay ladies & gentlemen, lets not argue about the storage heating and the consumption of energy used.

Seeing is Believing so just post some pictures with the readings in the morning and evenings so you can compare whether the claim is right...

Other than that, it's pointless to argue over the energy consumption.

End of Story
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Actually putting the photos won't proof much. Just proof the meter is running and numbers are running.

But For argument sake, I have my monthly usages below. My average is about 9 to 10units per day. During weekday is only 1 storage running for 20-30mins, with 1 x 1.5HP Inverter running 8 hours, and maybe 12 CFL (18watt each) lights running about 4 hours in total. While on weekend, 2 storage running with around 20-30mins each, sometime the other unit switch on for long hours because my kid always forgot to switch it off, while AC usually 10-11 hours for Sat and Sunday. Lights about the same, and TV about 4 hours in the weekend.




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