Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

9 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 7 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

views
     
keyser soze
post Apr 28 2016, 03:34 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(maxilife1 @ Apr 28 2016, 01:06 PM)
I will be receiving my new house key this june and not yet renovate, is it economical in a long term if i install inverter AC even at the moment my plan is not to use AC frequently > 6 hours?

Piping for inverter AC is different from normal one, correct?  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Piping thickness is depends on what refrigerant you use nothing to do with inverter or not. R410a thicker than R22.
keyser soze
post Apr 28 2016, 03:58 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ Apr 28 2016, 02:05 PM)
1. Use combination of air cond and fan, faster cooling, best location is the place you will gather the most.
3. Installing air cond are not primary concern during renovation, what important is getting the location of air cond and making the holes are more important. This will bring down the air cond installation cost later on and avoiding later hacking jobs that creating another round of mess. Also, always avoid concealing piping.
Always remember this : inverter air cond does not save power if it is on full blast/full output. Always read the full technical specs of each air cond you are going to buy.
When your room are still warm, all air conds will gives full output which inverter are higher than non inverter at this state.
*
You are bull shitting again. At full blast inverter EER is higher/better than non-inverter. Just that the saving is not as obvious/attractive as part load.
keyser soze
post Apr 28 2016, 04:45 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ Apr 28 2016, 04:32 PM)
Just ignore the troll. I see nothing basically, since I'm using the ignore button.
For a keyboard warrior, he has to pick a beef inside a chicken egg. I'm used to it already.
When I'm talking on full load, he will use minimum load to attack me.
*
Sorry, my bad, thought you still twisting that non-inverter have higher EER at full load. Mix-up the output with input.
keyser soze
post Apr 29 2016, 09:59 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(pointbreak @ Apr 29 2016, 12:56 AM)
Want to ask sifu here master bedroom around 250ft , what HP AC I should buy ?
*
Night only 1hp, day and night use 1.5hp or 1hp inverter.
keyser soze
post Apr 29 2016, 10:17 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(pointbreak @ Apr 29 2016, 10:10 AM)
Thx sifu
Currently using 1hp aircond night only.. Sometime few cold sometimes not cold .. The room facing west..
*
What AC are you using and how old is it? Facing west you might need to switch on your AC earlier to take out initial heat load from the sun.
Your room using full high windows? Did the curtain always closed.?
keyser soze
post Apr 29 2016, 06:36 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(keyser soze @ Apr 29 2016, 10:17 AM)
What AC are you using and how old is it? Facing west you might need to switch on your AC earlier to take out initial heat load from the sun.
Your room using full high windows? Did the curtain always closed.?
*
Facing west, full high windows, if you are staying at landed house above your room is roof. Then you have almost all the scariest heat load conditions. Day load I'll go for 80 to 100 Btuh/sqft. Night load is not too bad, but 7 to 9pm the heat is still stored inside your room which takes quite some time to removed, the 1hp AC really have to work hard.
About sometimes cold, sometimes not cold, did you service your AC? I means chemical clean of both indoor and outdoor unit also take out the blower for cleaning. If not, I suggest you should start to do it.
If you did service your AC, then the only things I suspect is during day time from 12pm to 7pm, the sun is seriously strong, your room "store" too much heat which make it too hot for your AC to handle. Another reason id that your thermistor is not functional well, sometime didn't cut in the compressor. Another reason is lack of gas.
keyser soze
post May 3 2016, 11:02 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(dzs @ May 3 2016, 12:01 PM)
still confius.....
isn't the inverter is better than non inverter....
u said the inverter using more power when run full power....
the other said not......
confused.gif  confused.gif  confused.gif  confused.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Inverter is still better than non-inverter in term of efficiency (full /part load) and comfort. The drawback of inverter is the repair cost and the first cost. If you need to choose between 1hp inverter and non-inverter, my suggestion is always go for inverter, since price difference between both is not much. (around RM200)
The energy saving for inverter at full load is still better than non-inverter but the difference is unable to justify for the higher first cost. Means, if you know your AC is going to under size and you expect it run for full load most of the time, also you are not going to use it so often, then go for non-inverter. Especially the price of 2hp inverter is going to be much more expensive (around RM650-700) due to lower demand.
Of course, you can go for inverter to save our earth from global warming or get ready for higher TNB tariff.

There are no way to size one AC to be perfectly accurate in real life, if you under size your AC, then it will always run at full load and unable to cool down the room to your desirable temperature. If you over size your AC then non-inverter AC will keep on start and stop which consume more electricity. Inverter AC will help if you over size the AC, it will tune down it cooling capacity to suit different situation.
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 03:20 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007



QUOTE(Richard @ May 4 2016, 12:35 PM)
First a technical reply that makes sense..

ok.. your AC clamp meter measures RMS AC current which isn't the proper way to measure inrush current i.e. ac motor starting amps..

Please watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rM2EtkXCbE  its a youtube video by mjlorton..

I've watched it and do not pretend to understand his whole technical explanation but the gist of it is an ac motor inrush current* cannot be measured with a hall effect type clamp meter (the basic clamp meter we all know and love) which can only measure AC RMS amps

rather you need to have an oscilloscope to capture/record/playback  the dc and ac inrush current form as basically he says this is where the 6x to 10x inrush current is present.. It's almost an instantaneous current spike at the peak of your ac sinosoidal voltage .. mmm.. maybe getting too technical here ..

basically he captures the inrush at above 22amps with 4amps being the run current..

but anyway have a look at the video and see if you can agree..

As a side note the EER of an inverter type motor will always be higher than a typical DOL start/stop as the input power gets lost as heat during the start/stop stage..

An inverter circuit bypasses this with its ability to control the frequency/voltage i.e. starting motor starting torque thus variable speed drive of the motor..

On any motor controlled via a thermocouple sensor (like your ac unit) having an inverter circuit is a no brainer as it pays for itself very quickly as we live in a hot humid country..

edit* typed motor when it should be current
*
rclxms.gif Impressed with your electrical knowledge and clear explanation.
rclxms.gif
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 03:23 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 01:37 PM)
Nope, in terms of reliability, inverter are poorer due to circuit board fails.
As said already, inverter only do wonders when it is running on ramp down or reduced output mode, as long as you don't reach this state, it will be worst than non inverter.
For typical setting, comfort level will be 24-26°C, then you have to see your initial room temperature, if 30°C and high humidity of > 70%, it will take longer time as the air cond needs to remove moisture in your room and at the same time bring down temperature.
So the question will be, how long it needs to bring down the 4°C. This won't have absolute answer. So room needs 3 hours, some needs 5 hours.
*
Worst than inverter in term of reliability? efficiency? or what?

This post has been edited by keyser soze: May 5 2016, 04:30 AM
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 03:34 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 01:46 PM)
1st time in my life heard of air cond motor, another troller that know 0 basic but try to troll and baseless personal attacks doh.gif
Also, if running on low load and full load has no relevance, then why the power consumption they are putting a range for it? Again, by your statement, it still proves you know nuts on how an air cond works.
And just to slap your self with your limited knowledge, for the same HP air cond, inverter are drawing 3.6A while non inverter drawing 3.7A, but I do understand what you are trying to say 0.1A are still lower doh.gif
And I do like to know what does wasting heat means? Did you actually did temperature measurement and compare? But looking at the way you reply, you never but jus simply spit out doh.gif
*
Nothing wrong about using the word motor. AC compressor is actually driven by a motor and the motor is the one the consume energy.
Heat wasting... we all learn during high school physic that
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another. For instance, chemical energy can be converted to kinetic energy in the explosion of a stick of dynamite. A consequence of the law of conservation of energy is that a perpetual motion machine of the first kind cannot exist." - Conservation of energy.

There are inrush current during every startup non-inverter compressor, the inrush current was not transmit into "cooling" of the AC system but wasted as heat. In fact during energy transformation, most energy wasted as heat.

By the way, your knowledge on AC system also very limited.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: May 5 2016, 04:31 AM
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 03:57 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 01:50 PM)
I don't know how you come out with 30% of savings when using inverter, care to explain in detail?
*
Can check the Suruhananjaya Tenaga label.
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 04:10 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 01:53 PM)
Any proof to support your baseless statement that when inverter running on full load save more power compare to non inverter?
You may choose different brand to justify your baseless flaws if you want. But when I checked on Panasonic website, it states clearly your flaw is a flaw thumbsup.gif
*
Read carefully before you quote what I said. I never mentioned that at full load it save more power. What I mentioned is at full load inverter is more efficient (means save more money). Means, it use more power but also gives you more cooling capacity.
Can't believe I'm doing this with you the 3rd times.
Panasonic spec mentioned that the non-inverter full load EER is lower than inverter. (NOW I UNDERSTAND HOW CAN YOU HAVE SO MANY POST IN THIS FORUM)

Next time you you want to quote something from the internet please screen capture and post it up (which you usually won't do that, because that will expose your lies)

Attached Image
Attached Image


keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 04:19 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 10:11 PM)
Well, he is just another baseless TCC only, that's why he don't dare to explain in detail. As by logic, cooling a room's temperature down 1°C needs at least 1 hour, still have to consider that's room's hardware setup which I'm pretty your room won't be same as mine.
Like before I install a door to make my room smaller, it takes 4 hours to cool my room. But after install that door, it takes 3 hours.
*
You also always never explain in detail. What you usually do is just quote an internet link and ask people to read and understand, but the link either proof you wrong or it end up nothing.

Like you mentioned by logic, cooling a room's temperature down 1degC needs at least 1 hour, do you have proof? Cooling a room down from 30degC to 29degC is much easier than from 20degC to 19degC. You never mentioned the 1hr is based on what room temp.
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 04:28 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2016, 10:26 PM)
Well, I also having hard time to find how the test being done. But by taking the numbers on the label, back calculating is ~4 units used a day. The question is, are we really getting 4 units only by following our setting?
Most of the time the test temperature would be 23-26°C.
Just check out on Panasonic's website, they only publish outdoor temperature and not the room temperature. I feel this is quite misleading.
*
Panasonic website is very big don't expect people to browse through the whole website, post a link at least.
Attached Image
Above is capture from MHI technical manual. Actually all Japanese brand AC are tested according to JIS-C 9612.
Which should include indoor conditions and outdoor conditions.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: May 5 2016, 04:34 AM
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 10:55 AM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 5 2016, 09:05 AM)
Well, you are a troll supporting another troll, so by using wrong term is still ok, I know that.
Even installer will not say air cond motor, but either compressor motor for outdoor unit  or fan motor for indoor unit.
The label means nothing.
That's after I busted your lies openly, only you change now as others also see you are bullshitting only.
But your knowledge still limited, come back and do personal attacks only.
Again, you with intention and purposely missed out my second statement, I know you are still trying your best to troll, but you still need to do more to get to your goal rclxs0.gif
Well, Panasonic website are very big, but comparing 2 air conds need 6 clicks only. But you again choose not to, instead, try to troll again.
According to JIS-C-9612 standard or like another joker's ambient room's temperature don't dare to mention, set 28°C and keep on boasting how superior his inverter are. Does it means anything? It does not. Is your room built according to JIS-C-9612 standard? But I know you will say yes, but how many people in this world will built according to those test standard? If you are playing the diplomatic game, do get another troll to support you, since 2-1, 2 wins. That's the beauty of forums, more people can twist a fact thumbsup.gif
*
Keep saying people troll doesn't make you right. In fact you are the real troll king. Keep posting misleading info but without proof and explanation. Now you didn't even dare to post a website link.
Yes, yes, yes the Suruhanjaya Tenaga label means nothing, what you say is more important.
Keep trolling, the JIS standard is means to set a standard environment for the AC manufacturer to post their equipment's spec, so the end user can compare the performance and decide which one to go for. Only fool will built a room according to the testing standard.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: May 5 2016, 10:58 AM
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 01:05 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(DecaPix @ May 5 2016, 11:26 AM)
stop feeding the troll yo...
It's the same as saying the 10-15 fuel consumption figure means nothing
so "never argue with stupid people, ..."
*
As an AC contractor, some times seeing this guy keep posting misleading info, just can't bare it.
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 01:12 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(Jeffrey_Yong @ May 5 2016, 12:31 PM)
I am interested in getting room cold only.

I am renovating another room which is 26 foot x 30 foot.
Putting the aircon lower from ceiling have any bad effect?
Inverter or not because all the new ones comes with R410?
Can recommend any proven aircon to make it cold?
*
How cold you want?
780 sqft, this room is huge. You have to give more info, so I can give more accurate suggestion.
Slightly lower have no bad effect. How high is the ceiling? How low you wan't to install the AC?
Yes, current trend is R410a. It will takes long time for R32 to take over.
If just want cold without other special function, I always recommend Daikin and Panasonic local made cheaper spare parts. Acson actually is same as Daikin, just the name plate is different.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: May 5 2016, 01:16 PM
keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 02:28 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(andrekua2 @ May 5 2016, 01:53 PM)
Actually I think that you guys should stop attacking each other on the calculation and work towards the better of the community.

I think that most manufacturers figures are tests done in controlled environment with preset temperature which may be different from what you are using, and most probably something that you find hard to achieve in real world situation. There are so many things that become variables when it comes to real world application.

Basically an inverter saves energy in the long run compared to non inverter when you run them as per manufacturer's recommendation. How much saving probably is the biggest variable since they are a number of aspects that may influence the actual savings achieved.

The Samsung air cond that I installed last week had temperature and usage meter. At first, I kept monitoring it to see if it really save a lot of energy. Honestly it really didnt change much between 26C to 27C and 28C. There are differences, no doubt, but not really that much to cause you concern. Therefore, just enjoy the air cond and worry less about the energy consumption.
*
You switched from non-inverter to inverter? Any difference on your TNB bill?

keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 02:53 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 5 2016, 02:35 PM)
With El-nino effect, most ac cond installers only have time to die but you have time to troll.
That's means your skill and attitude are having problem mega_shok.gif
*
I'm a contractor, not a normal installer, El-nino or not dosen't concern me, since my clients, the developer still need to built houses and sell regerdless of weather conditions.
I only interested on construction project which is at least over RM2mil. 2 projects that currently directly under my supervision is over RM40mil. I have over 100 workers in my projects. I usually sit in the office and give instruction. I'm free because after more than 10 years in AC field, I'm the one who give instruction and solve problems, let those young engineer work at site.


keyser soze
post May 5 2016, 03:39 PM

On my way
****
Junior Member
569 posts

Joined: Jul 2007

QUOTE(supersound @ May 5 2016, 03:12 PM)
Yeah, whatever you say, it does not change the fact you know nuts, air cond motor is the best joke of the year. A contractor that work 10 years that support lies how good he is everybody will tell.
*
I'm actually exposing your lies. I believe you do have some technical knowledge, but you definitely not in AC field. You do understand what I said is right, but you just keep denying, is either you can't accept that you are wrong or just for the sake of trolling (to get more post count?).
Whatever... I will say is, if you keep posting misleading info, I will keep exposing your lies. Again, please provide proof, if you you are concrete on what you claim and stop asking people to look for the answer that does not exist.
You can claim that your non-inverter Panasonic AC at 26degC with your ceiling fan is saving energy, did you actually tried inverter and fan with the same room?

9 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 7 > » Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.2808sec    0.75    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 13th December 2025 - 03:52 PM