To what extent? It's like making a cake brotha. You don't want to do the icing first. You make the cake then do the icing later. Mirror is your best guide.

True, but by looking at the mirror, your end goal then should be aesthetics.. looking good. but u told me to forgo aesthetics and go on to build a solid foundation.

so again i ask, how does one know that his/her foundation is good?

no body knows, only you yourself know

foundation means everything, including your knowledge, strength, muscle mass, experience. have you got them all basics covered?

some people like armesh says he is an intermediate lifters and publishing books although lifting less than a year and still at underweight, dont be like that.

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: May 21 2015, 10:35 AM

That question my friend i can't answer because at the end of day it's up you. I've seen all begineers really doing all those isolation and machine thinking that they will build those aesthetics body but it doesn't make any difference to their body. A solid foundation makes big difference from doing isolation or accessory movements.

This post has been edited by degraw1993: May 21 2015, 10:43 AM

nah man. that's not what im all about. Compound movements using barbell or dumbbell is always a priority for me hence, the big 3+1 is always my first exercise. i use accessory movements to bring up my weak points.

You're fat and do you expect you can build those aesthetics in such short period? Wrong brotha right now your bodyfat 30% and it takes even years in fact you're beginner.

This post has been edited by degraw1993: May 21 2015, 11:04 AM

I'm already elite lifter now.

u serious bro?

eh chill chill

Only need a few months. Just make sure you have your:



Juice.. orange juice

Not srs.

This post has been edited by Armesh: May 21 2015, 12:12 PM

I don't consider myself as an intermediate lifter mainly because i have alot more to cover in terms of knowledge and strength such as finding the form that is right for me to be able to lift more etc. for muscle mass, i guess i can only know when im down to 20% or less bodyfat.

I do think i got the basics covered such as rep ranges, compound vs isolation movements, hypertrophy & strength training, rest period and so on. been training for 3 years but the first year was on and off. only the second year onwards im able to consistently train. Still long way to go.

I think Armesh's advice is mainly based on what others had published and proven to work. knowledge is power but if there is not result shown then, people will think that you are bullsh*tting. 90days is not enough to prove that one is an advance lifter. This is my opinion la. dont tembak me hahaha.

This post has been edited by unclemike: May 21 2015, 12:51 PM

well, no where in my comments state that i want aesthetics to come fast. like i said, my end goal is to get strong and look aesthetic at the same time.

if it takes longer to do both at the same time so be it cause i love going to the gym and lift weights.

learn many stuff here until i ROFL when someone post about <insert elite name here>, gawddamn,, u guys r funny and strong

The only other thing I'd say is to put in more effort into tracking fats. It's difficult with typical Malaysian food, yes, but myfitnesspal entries do give relatively accurate numbers. This is better than not tracking fats at all which, as you probably know, can mess up your daily macros due to their energy density.

Do you mean logging foods such as "nasi ayam", "mamak mee goreng", "pataya rice"?

Yes. There are typically a few entries for the same food. It's pretty easy to get ballpark figures for protein and carbs from fried rice dishes for example. You can then just guesstimate the fat numbers from the entries. It's not ideal but then again, life isn't ideal.

Ic, thanks for the tip. Will try that.
Normally when I'm out I just buy KFC, MCD, Subway burgers since they come with the macro values.
If chicken rice I always estimate the rice grams, chicken grams and simply add ~300 cals for the oil.

Alternatively you can break foods down if there isn't an exact entry or if the macros listed seem off. For example nasi goreng pattaya is pretty much fried rice and fried egg. So by searching for two items you can likely get a more accurate log.

yeah myfitnesspal is a great tool to track macros. normally i would try to breakdown the foods as well.

Same question that comes into my mind. My final goal is aesthetic but I've always been in strength all the while for the purpose of "foundation building" and still fixing all my lifts, forms, stamina, diet and etc. I born weak, ecto, have small bones and I'm not an athletic person but I'm trying to do all the best my body can perform, I try to run, hike and lift. How should I benchmark myself if I'm ready to drop the strength program and proceed to hypertrophy program? I don't wanna train strength forever because that's not what I'm aiming for. I understand hypertrophy is not about insane heavy weight that I can pull but more towards muscle & mind connection.

My last PR as below, I don't know my 1RM
3x5 1x body weight on squat
3x5 1x body weight on bench
1x5 1.3x body weight on deads

Doing SL with added chins and dips atm, starts from empty bar so there should be another month to hit my PR

This post has been edited by helven: May 11 2016, 04:12 PM