enuf said....
edit:
This post has been edited by j.passing.by: May 23 2016, 02:52 PM
Public Mutual Funds, version 0.0
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May 23 2016, 02:41 PM
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A fool and his money are soon parted.
enuf said.... edit: This post has been edited by j.passing.by: May 23 2016, 02:52 PM |
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May 23 2016, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE(yourself @ May 23 2016, 12:03 PM) Hi all, I would like to ask how to calculate my monthly DDI dividend returns. Assuming financial year ended is 31st December 2015, and I invested in January 2015. They declared 8% dividend yield from NAV. Do I get the full 8% or lesser? Are the funds prorated or not? I heard some say yes, some say no. Not going to read the link, but obviously you got it wrong on the so called "dividend yield" and "proration" of the dividend. This matter has been discussed and clarified repeatedly in many previous posts... please do some search on them.On this link, the Unit Trust Consultant said the fund is unprorated by December 2015. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/public-ittik...d-qistina-nazri Why I ask this is because for ASB, if I do the same monthly DDI, and they declared 8%, because they are prorated, I only get around 4% return. So I need to know how for Public Mutual's case. Thank you for all your help! Anyway, it is not rocket science and one can easily think it through on his own by asking himself a series of questions to arrive at the answer himself. Start by knowing what's the foremost major difference between a fixed-priced fund like ASB (and also EPF) and a variable-priced fund that has its NAV price updated every business day. Cheers. PS. It is called "distribution income". Variable-priced funds as in the funds offered by Public Mutual do not have "dividends". another spelling edit - This post has been edited by j.passing.by: May 23 2016, 02:56 PM |
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May 26 2016, 02:03 AM
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#83
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QUOTE(moarlewts @ May 26 2016, 12:12 AM) If a fund's financial year end is 31 October, will the distribution be paid out immediately the next day? 1. Yes. This generally applies to Public Mutual only and not all fund houses.2. If the financial year end is on a holiday or weekend, the distribution announcement will be a day earlier. 3. Normally, if I checked on the 2nd day (2 business days after the distribution announcement), the account will be with the reinvested units. |
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May 26 2016, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE(scyap @ May 25 2016, 10:40 PM) Hello guys... I'm new to Public Mutual... You mean the average income-distributions of a fund over the past years, since it is meaningless to know how much the NAV/unit price drops after each distribution. After each distribution, not only the distribution is affecting the NAV price but the market value of the underlying stocks is also affecting the NAV price. So no way to tell how much is the drop in the price is due to distribution or the daily valuation of the fund.I'm wondering what is the average % NAV reduces once dividends/distributions are paid/distributed... Could someone provide some advice...? It seems that some bros here copy the NAV table on daily basis, would someone be so kind to share that table? For the income distribution of the fund over the past years, see its financial reports. Some websites may chart the NAV price... but they are useless bits of info. Waste of time studying them. The right approach is charting the daily gains or losses in percentage, ie. the performance chart. http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx |
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Jun 12 2016, 03:01 PM
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It's a nice Sunday...
(FYI... Ages ago), I had sat through the UTC exam - and needless to say, passed it, la (handed back the papers in less than 30 minutes, haha); and I think it is timely to once again point out the reason why any UT investor should find out more about UT on his own; and at the same time dispelling the myth that one should either do the UT investments on his own - DIY style, or pay the service charge using a UTC and the UTC will handle the investment. Not to discredict any UTCs, but it seems that the main role of UTCs, which is introducing, marketing and explaining UT funds to their prospective clients, had been confused with the role of a fund manager and fund company which is managing the fund. UTC don't manage any funds, and is obviously not in any position to manage any of your money... so please get this right - whether or not you are using an online platform with discounted service charge or investing and paying a higher service charge via a UTC, you are still on your own. And it pays to read and learn more about UT funds - which is the reason why this forum and thread exist. Cheers. Think first, then invest. (If you are new to this thread, some of the basic facts on UT have been written in some earlier posts, and if you care to go through the earlier pages of this thread, hopefully there may be some extra or new info you could take away...) |
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Jun 12 2016, 03:31 PM
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It's quite some time since I last logged in... I see several new posters in this thread, and dasecret with a few posts, and one nice embedded post - which I envy 'cos I don't know how to do embedments.
I read all the posts here, and sometimes I feel the urge to put in my 2 cents opinion but most of the time, am too lazy to log in and reply. Other times, I see the need to correct some misleading info... and then again did not comment because the info was obviously wrong to most of the readers too, so rather let the poster alone to believe in his own misinformation. To be honest, I too find that the service charge in Public Mutual is (and other local fund companies as well) too excessive at 5.5% compared to online investment platforms like FSM and eUnittrust. It is even more ridiculous when it is only 3% when it is via the EPF withdrawal scheme - which entails more paper work. When I first joined this forum, one of my personal objective was to spread a bit of negative propaganda and also enlightend people that there are online UT platforms with lower and discounted service charges... in the vain hope of driving market away from Public Mutual, and maybe they will see the need to lower their service charge to recapture their market share. (So far, there's no indication that my private and personal crusade is working. LOL. It would be a disservice to some new UT investors or would-be investors coming to this thread for some extra info if I don't present the positive side too. (But it will only be said once, this time only and will not ever be repeated here or elsewhere, as the private and personal cursade is still ongoing. Haha.) The service charge is a one-time charge; it was explained further in a previous post on amortizing it over the years and its effect on the total returns over the long term. Yes, it is discounted and reduced by holding the investment over many years or better still, several or many decades. Another aspect of the service charge is that it is an entry cost. Just stating the obvious... and it is obvious that a higher entry cost will deter entrance. Here's the positive side of a high entry cost - it will also deter exit. But how is that positive, you may ask? Well, there are fund's returns and investor's returns. The fund's returns are stats and data from the past 5 or 10 years, as like those in dasecret's post. They are the stats and data that you reviewed in making the decision for your entrance into the fund. They are the fund's returns for the past 5 or 10 years. Needless to say, when you buy into any fund, you will be getting your own "investor's returns". Not the fund's returns. 'Cos you are buying into the fund now, you are not buying into the fund 5 or 10 years ago. If each of us were buying into the same fund at various times, each of us will be getting different returns - which is the individual investor's returns. (If you want the same return as the fund and other investors, go buy fixed-price UT which is RM1/unit with 'real' annual dividends and given prorata to those investments held less than 1 year.) Some of us would be getting better investor's returns than others because of the timing of the purchase. A lot have been said about "timing" - and the reason for using regular purchases strategy like DCA and VA. In general, timing is not easy and not every DIY investors' cup of tea to time his/her purchases. (And please la, UTC agents and fund managers don't have secret crystal balls to time the entrance and exit either. Some investors may be enticed to do timing if there is no entry cost... well, some were already doing exactly that - entering and exiting - when the entry cost is very low like 0.5 or 1.0%... so IMHO, a high entry cost will deter the finicky and kiasu investor from exiting in a down market and give him a reason to hold and maintain the investment when he is already feeling kiasi after his investment dropped 15% and could maybe dropped another 25% in the coming months. Cheers. (I take that the "finicky and kiasu investor" is also a long term investor - otherwise he is "lost" in this Public Mutual thread! |
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Jun 12 2016, 07:50 PM
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#87
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QUOTE(dasecret @ Jun 12 2016, 05:12 PM) ... Join forces to spread a bit more negative propaganda? This would take the entire nation backwards in terms of financial literacy, just like everything else... So I try lor, every little bit that I can. Boss j.passing.by, let's join forces No need, la... you're doing fine on your own, as in the above post on the poorer returns by Public Mutual against other fund companies. 5 top funds from 3 different companies... haha. Sometimes to remind self to be grounded to earth, and not flying high into dreamland and chasing high returns, I looked into this site showing the top funds, which shows the worse funds too. https://www.eunittrust.com.my/fundInfo/5top_worst_funds.asp For example, Top 5 Funds 1 Year Fund Name % RHB Gold And General Fund 38.80 AmPrecious Metals 27.68 AmPan European Property Equities 21.65 RHB Energy Fund 19.65 AmGlobal Property Equities 18.84 Worst 5 Funds 1 Year Fund Name % Affin Hwang China Growth Fund -33.81 AmConstant Multi Maturity -24.46 Manulife China Equity Fund -22.40 RHB Big Cap China Enterprise Fund -17.70 BIMB Dana Al-Falah -17.61 edit: correction - that should be "5 top funds from 3 different companies", not 4. And all except the balanced fund seemed to be in the same equity sector. This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 12 2016, 08:02 PM |
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Jun 12 2016, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jun 12 2016, 08:03 PM) Aren't Public Mutual holders allowed to do "free switching" or pay a nominal amount to switch? I am curious how many % of unit holders actually actively switch in and out of funds? I think all these are hidden costs ultimately borne by those passive investors doing long term investing because there are transaction costs involved everytime someone switch from equity funds to bond funds for example. It is definitely not free. These transaction costs ultimately reduces a funds NAV. You get some free switches if you have gold status (meaning total investment over RM120k) or gold elite (over RM500k). Otherwise each switching fee is RM25.Yes, all investors will have to bear the operation costs due to the action of some investors. The actual costs incurred by the company will depend on the total switches on that day - some swithching in and out would contra each other; if the total sum is not too significant, the fund manager might not have to do anything as usually about 10% of the fund is in cash and money-market securities to cater to these transactions. There is also the lock-in period of 90 days to deter investors from doing 'timing' and switching too frequently; there is a penalty of 0.75% of the total switched amount from exiting equity funds, and 0.25% from bond funds. The size of the fund and the number of units sold and bought is in the year-end financial report. Size of the fund do matter whether any transactions by any individual investors would affect the fund. |
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Jun 12 2016, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jun 12 2016, 08:31 PM) The 90 days - do you mean can only do 1 switching every 90 days? And, the 0.75% is a penalty only if you switch from equity to non-equity? What about switching between equity funds? Any penalty? Sorry, shouldn't have said 'lock-in period'...You can switched as often as you like. Just that the 90 days determines whether you pay a flat RM25, or the extra cost of 0.75% / 0.25% fee. The 90 days is counted from the day you purchased or switched into the fund. The fee is counted on the type of fund you switched out from. It does not matter what fund you switched into. Another rule is that when switching out within the 90 days period, it is subjected to a minimal charge of RM50. For example: If you switched RM10,000 out of a bond fund within the 90 days period; RM10,000 x 0.25% = RM25. It will cost you RM50 due to the minimal charge. If you switched RM10,000 out of an equity fund within 90 days; RM10,000 x 0.75% = RM75. Switching cost is RM75. If it is over 90 days, RM25. (Switching out of money-market fund, regardless of 90 days or not, is a flat RM25.) (The full switching details are found inside the fund prospectus.) (Gold members - 18 free switches in each calendar year. Gold elite - 30 free switches. But you still need to pay if the cost is more than RM25 in each switch transaction. As in the above example of RM75, it will cost you: RM75 - RM25 = RM50.) The switching cost will be deducted from the fund... so you do not really pay it out of your wallet or bank account. EDIT: Important rule: After 90 days, all switches INTO money-market fund is FREE. This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 13 2016, 01:25 PM |
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Jun 13 2016, 02:48 PM
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I doubt the fund managers would be worried, since the investment policies is set by a board - and I don't think the policy is to aim to be the top fund in their respective sector as their investment policy is more towards the conservative side.
(If the fund happened the top fund in its sector, it could be because there are no other funds in that sector or because the other funds are new entrants. Secondly, I think investors who goes with PM are also mostly those who are in for the long haul - retirement and setting up trust funds, where their fund portfolio will be restructured to more income funds, and the income distribution will not be reinvested. If the 5.5% service charge is taken into account, it is not advisable to look into PM when the investment objective is 5 years or less, regardless of how its short term returns was in comparisons to other funds. (And in the shorter term objective where I can determine the exact amount I wished to have, it is better to make the exit when the amount is reached and not preset the exit to the initial investment tenure.) To avoid any frustration or dissatisfaction on the UT investment, it would be proper to review the objective of the investment. Do a top-down approach if it was not done before; starting with the objective, then the company, then the sector, and lastly the fund. Yes, the fund and its returns come last. It could be topsy turvy if the objective is long term and the UT investment is based solely on its returns. Always remember the investment objective. It is pointless and even silly to start comparing funds' returns without any reference to the initial objective. Cheers. BTW I'm not a Unit Trust Consultant (UTC). Yes, I sat and passed the UTC exam - to know what's going on first hand. The service charges, all fully paid to my UTCs - which I have several, and I'd never tried to keep in touch with them. So readers, please don't wrongly preconceived that I have 'inside info' on PM... |
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Jun 17 2016, 02:46 PM
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Here's something for the weekend... Lack of patience helps to create ‘the investor gap’.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lack-of-p...6-07?link=MW_RM As mentioned in a post in previous page, there's a difference between the fund's returns and the investor's returns, and this difference is apparently termed "the investor gap". "Not content to sit quietly and quit tinkering with their portfolios, many investors are more active than prudence would dictate. Combine a limited understanding of financial concepts and the lack of a written financial plan to help prevent imprudent, emotional investment decisions and, voila, the investor gap. Strategies that have worked over the long haul often appear to be foolish in the short term, almost guaranteeing that portfolio tinkerers won't leave well enough alone." In other words, the finicky investor pulled out in an adverse market because he got scared; going contrary to the well-worn stock market phrase of "buying low, selling high". ("Investors become rattled by ordinary market volatility.") In unit trusts, it is "buy-and-hold", but this is only half the story. If the finicky investor began with a DCA method, he stopped buying because he lost faith in the fund, this means he had abandon the initial DCA method. Once any strategy is abandon without any alternative, there is no strategy to speak off... that means he was doing his UT investments blindly and just following his own whims and fancies. And the investor gap widens. If he's lucky, the gap narrows positive... and if unlucky, the gap widens negatively. But usually we're seeing a negative gap... since he already 'buy high, sell low'. And about switching funds (when one thinks it is timely and appropriate to do so)... "Despite all the warnings that past performance is no guarantee of future returns, investors still chase performance. They equate good performance with manager skill, not realizing that the manager might just have been lucky. Sadly, much of this performance chasing is done following the advice and guidance of financial professionals." "The investor gap is created by poor investor behavior in response to unpredictable, periodic, temporary market declines. It will exist as long as investors try to time the market in order to gain the upside and avoid the downside. If you're endeavoring to do this, you're delusional and any financial forecaster (or advisor) who encourages you to do so is a devil. The large exodus of money from stock mutual funds in response to the market decline in January and February will keep the investor gap alive and well, ensuring that in 2016 investors will continue to underperform the very funds that they own." Cheers. |
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Jul 10 2016, 02:04 PM
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#92
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QUOTE(tboontan @ Jul 9 2016, 11:59 PM) at first glance of a few treads , i thought that you are an utc , Thank you for the support and kind comment. I believed I knew a bit more than any fresh UTC is that I am an investor going in for the long haul. The simple knowledge and first hand experiences that I have learned about UT funds in general (and Public Mutual funds in particular) were gathered after many readings and time spent on the internet, and from the same trial-and-error process that many newbie investors would also go through.but after more reading , only realized you are not. fantastic, your level is above many many utcs, especially those who are not full time . cheers Among the more important things I learned is that posters writing in forums and writers writing in financial articles were writing with a specific audience in their minds, and it would helps if we know who are the intended readers that they are speaking to, and whether we are the intended readers. Because different readers and UT investors have different financial backgrounds; which I broadly categorised into 3 stages or groupings - The young, the intermediate and the retired. All 3 groups would behaved differently; and the groupings were written in the early pages of this thread. Cheers. Keep reading... and investing. |
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Jul 10 2016, 02:40 PM
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#93
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Okay, this is another Paul Merriman's article: 10 Decisions Guaranteed to Change Your Financial Future.
(I hope Mr Merriman is not going to go after me for sharing his articles here without asking his permission. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-decisi...7-06?link=MW_RM Investment success isn't mysterious, and it's largely under your control, as long as you make good decisions and follow through on them. Here's a list of what I think are the 10 most important investment decisions you will make over your lifetime. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « These 10 questions will give you lots to think about. Fortunately, you don't have to tackle them all right away. But if you take the time to study all these topics and then put into practice what you learn, it will be time very well spent. I predict that the ultimate payoff per hour will be far higher than any salary you're likely to earn. If that's the result you want, then roll up your sleeves and go for it! Comments: Some of the fund types that he mentioned may not be available here locally, and I have to admit that some of funds he mentioned I have no idea at all and could not see the difference between focused funds and actively managed funds. I shared his opinion that UT funds are for the long term and the process of getting into it is equally long and lengthy. Best to begin as early as possible. Cheers. PS. Please read the original article, as it has links to other articles. |
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Jul 14 2016, 07:58 PM
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#94
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Jul 14 2016, 08:10 PM
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#95
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wow wow wow - Bond funds shoot up today... after BNM cut OPR.
14/7/2016 PB AIMAN SUKUK FUND PBASF 1.0617 0.0040 0.38% 14/7/2016 PB SUKUK FUND PBSKF 1.0690 0.0033 0.31% 14/7/2016 PB INFRASTRUCTURE BOND FUND PBINFBF 1.0703 0.0032 0.30% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC SUKUK FUND PSKF 1.0693 0.0030 0.28% 14/7/2016 PB ISLAMIC BOND FUND PBIBF 1.1305 0.0029 0.26% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC ISLAMIC BOND FUND PIBOND 1.0160 0.0023 0.23% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC ISLAMIC INFRASTRUCTURE BOND FUND PIINFBF 1.0682 0.0024 0.23% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC ISLAMIC SELECT BOND FUND PISBF 1.0451 0.0019 0.18% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC INSTITUTIONAL BOND FUND PINBOND 1.0080 0.0016 0.16% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC ISLAMIC INCOME FUND PIINCOME 1.0628 0.0014 0.13% 14/7/2016 PUBLIC SELECT BOND FUND PSBF 1.0132 0.0012 0.12% Normally, the daily increment is about 0.02%. |
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Jul 21 2016, 04:06 PM
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#96
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QUOTE(cplai8791 @ Jul 21 2016, 09:10 AM) Hi all, new to unit trust and fund. I read through previous post here... There is always performance table for 1, 3, 5yrs and YTD. May I know how this calculated? Is it solely based on the NAV or taking in distribution factor already? First, welcome to this thread where I tried to explain the basics of unit trust funds as simple as possible.Thanks. 1. UT fund is different from gold price. Its performance table or growth table is not based on its NAV price or its distributions. The growth is its actual net growth between 2 points in time. 2. Please read further in this thread or elsewhere how the income distribution would readjust the NAV price per unit. 3. Let's take this performance chart as an example. http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx (Sorry, only the link... as I don't know how to embed it. The performance chart for 1, 3, 5 or 10 years is a moving chart with its starting point from the respective years till today. It shows the total growth of the fund. It is a simple chart charting the growth of the fund throught the years. Usually in performance tables in articles, ithe figures are annualised. 4. The Year-To-Date (YTD) figure is the growth for this year. In the above linked performance chart, select "Date range from" and put 31/12/2015 as its starting point, and today's date as the ending point. 5. Annualised means that it is a sort of 'average' figure for each year, except that it had taken "compounding" into account. 6. What some people failed to comprehend in reading the annualised numbers is that they misconstrued it as the annual or yearly growth; while in truth, there could be good years and bad years and the growth can be positive as well as negative at various points in the charted time period. 7. Looking at a growth chart showing all the growth points throughout the respective years instead of seeing a single annualised figure would help to dispel the miscomprehension in (6). 8. The growth performance charted is the previous years... how will the future fare is open to all speculations. But one thing for sure, 100% certain, is the ups and the dips which is clearly shown in all performance charts. (Hence the strategic method of regular buying ("Buy, buy, buy') at the accumulative stage is always advocated. LOL Am now sounding like a UTC out to get his commission. Cheers. This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jul 21 2016, 04:45 PM |
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Jul 21 2016, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Jul 14 2016, 11:04 PM) Missed your post... hence the late reply.The figures were taken at night... and only local funds were updated, while the foreign funds were updated the next day. PBond for that day is 0.11%. YTD PBond is among the bottom 5. YTD - Bottom 5: PB Bond Fund Public Strategic Bond Fund Public Select Bond Fund PB Fixed Income Fund Public Bond Fund YTD - Top 5: PB Aiman Sukuk Fund Public Islamic Infrastructure Bond Fund Public Islamic Bond Fund Public Sukuk Fund PB Sukuk Fund This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jul 21 2016, 04:44 PM |
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Jul 22 2016, 03:35 AM
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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Jul 21 2016, 07:54 PM) It is not easy in making this type of decision to sell or not... I think it depends on what is the objective in having the bond fund.I tried to make decisions based inwardly on how my portfolio is, what's the bond/equity ratio and what's its returns that I am satisfied with and what is the better equivalent fund that I could switched to... and have yet to reach the stage where I need to sell and cash them. Well, at least this was what I'm trying to do recently instead of looking outwards on the market trend and tried to do some timing and performance chasing. Looking in these bond funds on their recent returns in the past 3 years, it do looks like this year is good for bond funds... the past 6 months is good, but while nobody can be certain that the next 6 months will be equally good, it looks like Bank Negara could cut the OPR again in the latter part of 2016. Year-to-year total returns for PBond and Islamic Infrastructure Bond Fund, respectively: 2013: 2.49% 4.37% 2014: 3.94% 3.72% 2015: 4.45% 3.91% 1H-2016: 2.21% 3.93% The returns in the 1st half of 2016, in 6 months is almost the same as the whole 12 months in the past 3 years... while we can conservatively project it to be about 7-9% for the year, it is by no means a 100% certainty that this will turn out to be true. |
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Jul 26 2016, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE(itsnow @ Jul 25 2016, 10:41 PM) Hi ... 1. Re-purchase (sell) of EPF funds can be done via PMO (Public Mutual Online). New here. Need some advice on units redemption (sell) cut-off time redemption via PMO its 4pm But EPF redemption only can do at Public Mutual office. So what is the cut-off time for walk-in client? Is it 4pm or much earlier. understand that for UTC, thier cut-off is 2pm but I wanted to know for walk-in customer. Thankyou (Only purchases under the EPF withdrawal scheme cannot be done online, as there is paperwork and your thumbprint is required for submission to EPF, before EPF can release any money.) 2. AFAIK, the cut-off time is the same over the counter at the branch office at 4pm. Walk-in customers usually don't have to queue and will be attended first... but you must allow some time to request the right form and filling it. If I remembered correctly, the counter clerk will key-in the details on the spot and then time stamped the forms, before returning to you, your copy. If you really need to do it personally at the branch office, it would be wise to call them first... who knows, maybe there is a recent change in the cut-off time that we are not aware of. Cheer. PS. Yeah, have noticed that the Public Mutual website and server is erratic over the past week... seems to be down several times during the critical hours from noon till 4pm. Yesterday (Monday) is the worse... only able to connect now after 2am - don't know whether to be annoyed or salute the IT guy who managed to get it up and running at this graveyard shift hours. |
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Aug 29 2016, 02:29 PM
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#100
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The 1-yr performance chart for PIOF is pretty poor; dropped about 10% off its peak & underperformed its benchmark badly (benchmark +11.2%, PIOF +3.9%)
I think many have been selling/switching out of the fund - since those investors in the accumulation stage can't do DCA on it as it was closed; and those in the matured passive-income stage can't rely on it for either growth or income. (No income distribution was announced on its financial year-end on 31/July.) |
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