10-yr total returns annualised to 12.4%, 5-yr 11.74%, and 3-yr 7.29%.

The problem is that the impressive growth is only for those who had started buying it years ago. Those who started buying it 2 years ago see it shoot up 18% last year, dropped off its peak by 10%, and YTD growth of -8.4%.

I have this fund, switched in in 2014 before it closed, IRR peaked at 15%, current IRR less than 4%. Was very tempted to switch some units out to bond funds, but having this dilemma of not able to switch back in after switching out for short term gains.

Oh well, will get more units if it is open...

You going on about the "impractical" angle because he makes it sounds easy, "... CFP or RFP which generally take 18 to 24 mths to complete" like any UTC can take the course and will pass.

If only you know that the UTC exams were fully booked months in advance... and in that room, the variety of people taking the exam is as wide as the variety of people you would meet in a city bus.

LOL... that would be exaggerated stats comparing habitable planets to the number of stars in the universe.

===================

BTW I'm not bashing UTCs, and hopefully not starting another round of UTC bashing... it is another reminder of what is an UTC and what role they play in this UT industry.

Let's put it this way... if you know nothing about cars, the first car salesman you meet, you would think whatever he says is 'expert advice'. So you bought the car from him... and then later rant in a forum about the lemon car you just bought and what lousy service the car salesman is giving you.

Others in the know, will say that you were foolish and the fault is all yours.

What did you expect when you walked into the showroom? You expect the salesman to go through your lifestyle, your financial means, your salary, how many children you have, and whatnot before he recommended the car to you? And did you seriously expect him to recommend another brand that is not found in his showroom?

And yet you still rant on and on about the salesman and his lousy service... while others are pointing possible solutions like the salesman is not in charge of the service workshop, that the right person to inquire would be the service manager or workshop personnel... but because you were still stuck in the thought that a car salesman (in your perfect world) should take care of the car whenever there is any problem with the car, like come to your house and drive (or tow) the car to the workshop, make all the necessary repairs and/or normal service maintenace, and return the car back to you.

You may laugh... how possible is this scenario about car idiots I'm presenting here... yet we do read in forums of people complaining about salesmen not answering their calls after they were sold the car or any other product.

Maybe because they thought the service charge or commission they paid to the salesman entitiled them to "own" the salesman and should be getting 'better' services (outside the job scope of the salesman). To them, their one sen coin is as big as the wheel of a bullock cart.

Please la, UTCs are not financial advisors... and whatever service charges there is, whether high or low, is for selling you the fund and nothing more. If there is any extra advices, they were freely given... not because you paid for them... and so, should be thankful if you listened to the freebies and they happened to work out for you.

If it (UT funds and/or your portfolio) is not working out right, then it is time to take control and be in the driver seat... after all, it is your money.

(PS. There were some basic investment concepts and some technical facts about Public Mutual funds in many previous posts, and were usually repeated several times... thus some recent posts were not replied when they inquired what funds to switch, sell or buy; especially when the newbie investor did not even bothered to track his funds on his own, and like, did not know the portfolio's IRR but want advice on how to improve the returns...

Please read the previous posts, and increase the view counts per post. )

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Sep 13 2016, 04:46 PM

No reply from anyone? Maybe all regular posters have yet to set the distribution option to 'payout', all are either still in the accumulation phase or had already sold all their units.

I guess it would be similar to re-purchasing (selling) the units - about 4 days time, and also due to the fact that the distributed units (in 'reinvest' option) are reflected in PMO within 3 days.

=============

Looking at yesterday's NAV prices, China and Asia Pacific funds jumped about 1.5% to 2.5% after no pricing for 15/9 (Mid-Autumn festival) and 16/9 (Malaysia Day).

If anyone made a move into China Select Fund (the bad boy who made me lost money years ago) sometime in May, he would have gained about 20%...

yalor, why have to wait 2 weeks? Manual agent service or what?

Within PMO, one may set the distribution option (either 're-invest' or 'payout') to each individual fund, linking it to a different bank account - easily, immediately, and permanently.

PS. The default option is 're-invest'.

=============

A warning to all new UTCs:

Please remove all personal contact details - before you get into any trouble. This thread/forum is not for you to promote yourself and/or to advertise yourself or your product.

No, I am not that kbc to report you... it will be your own colleague/supervisor who will report you to Public Mutual.

Personally, I don't think anyone in his good sense would contact any new UTCs giving half assed info.

Short answer: it is the same 5.5% service charge if you do it online.

Unlike FSM who started its business as an online platform, PM is among the oldest UT company and it grew larger with the aid of its large independent salesforce - the UTCs or sales agents.

I think it will be hard for the company to undercut its UTCs without some sort of agreement and compensation. Similar to putting in robotics and machineries into a factory to replace manual labour and simply sacking the workers without retrenching them with retrenchment benefits.

Before you can register to the online PMO service, you must be a client first - meaning you must sign up with an UTC, who will go through with you a set of forms - which is basically to get your acknowlegement that you fully understood what you are about to invest into ie. can't complain later that the company or its UTC 'cheats' you if you lose money.

Within PMO, the service charge will be the same 5.5%. There is also an option to link a new purchase to the UTC, and you can also select 'no agent', whereby (if I am not mistaken) the service charge will then go directly to the company.

Select "No Agent" if you wanted to convey the message that selling mutual funds is a sunset industry, and to hasten its natural death. Hopefully, you would then get some discounts on the service charge before you grew old and retired.

Thank you for the correction.

I tried to write based on my own experience as an investor, and this time, had failed to be updated with the right info - as I have not put in any fresh funds since many years ago.

Okay, there's a cost to issuing cheque (53 cents) too... one more reason to use PMO and select "No Agent".

Hope you don't mind that I deleted the list of funds that you were having - seems like glaring and dazzling my eyes too much.

Giving the returns on each fund does not tell us anything on the fund performance. It is only telling us how is the investor's returns since the time you bought them.

To know which fund is better - we will have to look deeper into more info and past history of the funds, unless we were intimate with the funds and can readily regurgitate out the facts.

This research you can do on your own by using this online performance chart - http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx

You will also have to bear in mind that not all the funds available are inside the EPF-approved scheme if you are screening which funds to add.

I am not too sure that EPF can do better every year... some of the bond funds are 'hot' this year and expected to grow about 6 to 9%.

FYI, I had started an EPF portfolio of funds about 3 years ago - just to test how I would perform... the portfolio's current ROI is about 14% and its IRR is about 3.5%. Mind you, this is inclusive of the upfront 3% service charge, so the portfolio is pretty decent compared to EPF's 3-yr rate of 6.5%. Will I improved the portfolio's returns - who knows? This is what 'investment' and taking risk is all about...

Cheers.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Sep 23 2016, 04:35 PM

It is a one-time upfront fee. If my investment term is 20-yrs, the proper manner is to gradually include it yearly bit by bit (or using the accounting term "amortization"), like 0.15%. So the current 3.5% is actually closed to 6% in performance growth.

This is the same investment concept to look into when considering whether it is worthwhile to 'buy in' when there is a upfront sales discount over the usual 'buy in' in normal times.

It is also the same investment concept to "amortise" the upfront tax rebate on PRS, whether it is worthwhile to have PRS fund over a normal UT fund.

How important is Income Distribution:

1. Nil, if the distribution option is set to 're-invest'. It only has some meaning to investors who set it 'payout' and these investors would be in the retired, passive group who is depending on the distribution income as a source of income.

2. Not really that important, but investors still need to update their units held and add in the extra distributed units. (There was a past story of an investor who complaint that his fund was not doing well... as he was still using his initial units bought years ago and multiply that with the current NAV price. )

3. Good for marketing reasons... PM does the income distribution like clockwork, no surprises, always on the last trading day of the month, and the press release always end with the last sentence stating the total fund size being managed by them.

It is also good marketing to conveniently not state that there are at least 5 funds (with same financial year-end) not giving income distributions.

===============

okay, it is important to those who still think that the extra distributed units adds 'value' to the the fund.

As for the distributed units, they are considered as over 90 days. It would be counted as 2 separate transactions only when the fund is held not more than 90 days.

For example, you bought or switching to an equity fund last month, distribution income is this week, and switch all units next week to another fund, then it will be counted as 2 switching transactions - eventhough you make only one switching request.

If you had held the fund more than 90 days, it will be lumped together as one transaction - and one fee only.

Yes, it is important to keep track of the distributed units and not lump them with units held less than 90 days...

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Sep 30 2016, 08:16 PM

To chase or not to chase performance: getting your perspective correctly.

This is in reply to all who have asked if there are any recommended funds to invest, when the funds they are having were not performing to their expectations and in negative growth currently.

1. Equity funds are volatile and would be either in an uptrend or downtrend at one moment, and could make a u-turn the next moment. When any recommended fund is suggested, the recommendation is based on its past performance. If you follow the recommendation because of its current positive growth, will you stick to it when it made a u-turn? Or will you curse the so-called sifu who made the recommendation and switch yet to another fund made by another new sifu?

2. Public Mutual has many UT funds, and some of them are in the same market sector. It would be easy to compare those in the same sector and pick the best performing fund. But again, the ‘best performance’ or highest returns is based on the past years’ statistics. Will history repeat itself the next several years? Most probably not, as the topmost funds seemed to be changing every year and each fund rotates to the top each year. (Maybe this is by design so that each similar fund will not be too popular and causes the neglect of other funds... or maybe not, as this is just my speculative conjuncture on how the company could possibly manage the funds.)

3. If you think you are having the wrong fund (because of its negative growth and you are feeling the lost), first ask yourself how and why you had selected that fund. If you are selecting another new fund using the same method as before, then ask yourself why you will not encounter the same problem with the new fund.

4. If you are feeling the pain of having poor or negative returns, are you chewing more than you can bite? In other words, you may be taking more risk than you think you can handle, and had allocated too much money into the fund. Switching to another similar fund will not lower the risk and solve your dilemma.

5. If you feel that the fund you are having is not the “right” fund to have, maybe you should take a step back and review what you are doing and what was your objective in having UT funds. There are lots of articles and writings on this subject in the internet, and this Lowyat forum and some basic points in this thread... maybe a bit too many.

Get to know which ideas and advices would be applicable to you. I had in a couple of previous posts, identified 3 major categories that most UT investors would belong to: the beginner (age 21 to about 45), the mid stage (45 to 55) and the senior (55 and above). Generally, each would invest and behave differently (buying, selling and switching/trading funds and the types of funds, whether it is mainly equity or income funds)... mainly due to their finances and the time they have or running out of.

Cheers.

==================

Playing the game: Chasing the Hot Funds.

1. What is hot at the moment: a) China Titans Fund, b) Singapore Equity Fund, c) Australia Equity Fund, d) Global Select Fund e) Worldwide Equity Fund.

2. All of the above gained more than 5% last month (Nov.)

3. Or you can play the contrary game and go for Indonesia Select Fund; lost about 5% but YTD still gaining more than 14%.

4. Cut off time is 4pm... and take note that the stock markets are most active in the last hour and could U-turn just before closing.

5. There is a switching fee for all transactions into equity funds. Generally, for those in the beginning stage and still accumulating UT funds (ie. actively doing regular purchases, whether DCA or VA), not ideal and recommended to chase and switch in and out too frequently, as the switching fee will slowly adds up. When the total amount of fees incurred is compared to the total amount of UT funds, the cost may not be justified.

6. If you have to review which are the hot funds, you may have already missed the boat!

Back to Basics.

Transfer

"You may fully or partially transfer your units in the fund(s) to another unitholder subject to terms and conditions.
An administration fee of RM25 is charged on each transfer transaction. For transfer of units, you need to complete
and submit the Transfer Form to your nearest Public Mutual branch office or Public Mutual Head Office."

I have yet to try this transfer facility, but would eventually have to use it as my main objective of having unit trust funds was for retirement before getting too old and senile to handle my finances, and also leaving a source of stable income* for spouse and family.

It will be the cheapest method to transfer the entire portfolio to another person (who, as stated above, is also a Public Mutual accountholder - just have him/her open an account by purchasing a bond or money-market fund with lower service charge.)

BTW this facilty separates this portfolio of normal unit trust funds from EPF and other fixed price funds. With EPF and fixed price funds, you will need to withdraw them and transfer the money to spouse and family as cash or into fixed deposits.

Both cash or money in bank accounts are too liquid... and worrisome... after reading all the news on scams and pukau done on elderly men and women, who were swindled or charmed off huge amounts of money.

Cheers.

===========

* Stable income: This would be a portfolio of mostly MM and bond funds, and also equity funds with annual distribution policy, and the distribution status in all of them turned to "payout".

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Dec 18 2016, 09:05 AM

Back to Basics.


What is an 'Opportunity Cost'

Opportunity cost refers to a benefit that a person could have received, but gave up, to take another course of action. Stated differently, an opportunity cost represents an alternative given up when a decision is made. This cost is, therefore, most relevant for two mutually exclusive events. In investing, it is the difference in return between a chosen investment and one that is necessarily passed up.

Read more: Opportunity Cost Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opport...p#ixzz4TwfetTGo


Above is copied and pasted from Investopedia.

'Opportunity cost' cropped up a few times in the past threads, when some UT funds were not performing to expectations, and investors lamented the opportunity cost of having them instead of money in the bank, like savings or fixed deposits.

And regretting that with the money injected into UT funds, it is now at, say -4% instead of a +3.8% if it had remained in the bank.

Well, is it right to count opportunity cost after the lost? IMHO, no. This gives the wrong thought to what an 'investment' means, as this is putting the cart before the horse, which is considering the opportunity cost after the investment decision was made, when it should have been taken into account during the decision process.

Let's relate it to UT funds, to have a clearer picture of what I'm trying to say.

In the first place, you have money in the bank, and more than enough for daily/monthly expenses, and any unforeseeable emergencies. You then consider the potential opportunities found in UT funds, and also the opportunity cost of having all money solely in the bank just earning interests in savings and FD. You weighted the potential gains as well as the potential loss of having a riskier investment into UT funds, before continue on further with any purchases.

So, in a way, if you had not heard about this "opportunity cost" before, you had already more or less consider it and taken it into account when you decided to invest into UT funds - for their potential growth over earning interest from FD or any other investments.

In short, when the UT fund is not performing to expectations, please keep faith with your investment decision, and don't regret the decision made, and don't take 'opportunity cost' into account which will amplified the lost by adding on the possible gains from another investment.

=================

PS. The above link in Investopedia continues further... Using Opportunity Costs in Our Daily Lives.

1. Please beware that the PB series of funds (sold in Public Bank) is a shorter list of funds than from the Public series (sold by Public Mutual agents). The funds in PB series cannot be switched to funds in Public series. (BTW. the top small caps funds in the Public Series are closed to new investments, so don't have to query further for small caps funds...)

2. PB Small Cap Growth fund is a new fund launched early this year. Whether it is good or not, can't tell as it is new.

Anyway, the more important question is: your investment objective of having UT funds. The volatility of small caps fund may be too volatile to another person... with a different investment objective.

How long term is your "long term"? You can DCA for 20-30 years if you got the time... buy-and-hold does not necessary means a one-time lump sum investment... buy-and-hold because the DCA method is regular purchases - it would be finicky if we sell but yet at the same time we are doing regular purchases.

If you have already retired and enter with a large amount of money, do a full portfolio of bonds and income funds for a steady stream of 'pay-out' distributions.

If you don't have the time because you started late (maybe in your forties or fifties), then do a portfolio with a combination of income and growth funds. How much growth funds to have, it is up to each individual... and where's the troubles and headache begins... to take the risk and chase growth performance or not ???

The basics are simple and only a handful of things to keep in mind... actually it is the basics that I try to emphasize in this thread... only handful of concepts to pick up, most of the posts and articles are repeats saying the same thing over and over!

I think what is more important to any person is personal money management, though it would be easier to sell using greed, and showing fast, easy returns to entice the customer.

Tactical Allocation fund is a balanced fund, its equity allocation has a floor of 30% to a ceiling of 98%, and its benchmark is 70% MSCI AC Far-East Ex-Japan Index and 30% 3-Month KLIBOR.

This new fund can swing from 98% equity to 98% fixed income securities, and its benchmark seems to be an "average growth rate of 8% per annum over the long-term period".

It has a very wide investment mandate where the fund manager can do anything, open to invest in a long list of countries, and even "consider investments in unlisted equities particularly in companies that are expected to seek listing on Bursa Securities or selected foreign markets within a timeframe of two years."

More details can be found in its prospectus: http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a...7k%3d&tabid=749

"The asset allocation, liquidity management, diversification and hedging strategies employed are therefore central to the efforts to manage the risks posed to the Fund. Depending on the market outlook, the Fund has the flexibility to rebalance its asset allocation between the different asset classes accordingly. However, should the Fund Manager judge market conditions incorrectly or apply an unsuitable investment strategy, the performance of the Fund may be adversely affected."

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jan 10 2017, 08:53 AM

Redemption, whether EPF or otherwise, is usually 2 to 4 working days.

The nav price is still based on the day it was redeemed, the total amount can be calculated the next day after the price is known.

Wishing all Gung Xi Fa Cai and happy holidays.

Drive safe and don't get into trouble and spend the weekend in a lockup.

Serious offences like driving on the emergency lane, jumping traffic lights and overtaking on double lines are now non-compoundable.

1. Public Ittikal is a growth fund, its distribution policy is 'incidental'.
2. 2015: creation of units = 462,333 (x1000). 2016:creation of units = 680,889 (x1000)
3. That's over 462 million, and 680 million respectively of fresh purchases/investments.
4. Total size of the fund: over 4 billion.

The question should be: why distribution in 2016 when the growth (in performance) is negative?

Possible answer: Investors and agents see distributions as returns. No distributions = no good = failure = dump fund.



=========

"If the fund doesn't buck up soon..."
Fund Manager: "walao eh... my fund is hitting nearly 5 billion... these guys talk shop or talk kok?"

=========

Just kidding above. I would remained humble and would say that those investors injecting over 680 millions into the fund last year are smart money, continuing with regular purchases when the market is down.

Smart money from smart investors who do know what is distribution and how is its effect on the NAV price and the total value of their holdings.

=========================

Be careful a bit when mentioning specific funds. Most of the good funds are oversubscribed and are closed to new investments. It could be a wild goose chase and a waste of time if the fund is shortlisted for consideration.

Some agents like to do this - showing the past performance of closed funds. A 'bait-and-switch' sales tactic.

PIOF is closed on Sept 2014. Am holding some units, not able to top up since then. Public Ittikal is also a closed fund (still open to EPF-UT scheme withdrawals.)

Cheers. Stay Invested. Once again: Gong Xi Fa Cai.