Elo, since i posted the previus topic somewhere else...i decided to edit this one to save space...

Ok, ive been watching Mythbusters and ive seen them using Vodca+Water for ice packs... and they said that vodca will be easily cooled more then water... so i was wondering if it could be replaced by water in the WC system...or maybe put abt 60% water and 40% vodca into the liquid cooling systems...?

This post has been edited by wjie20: Oct 11 2006, 10:42 PM

what vodka flavor would u like to hav in ur WC system...grape, mandarin or the white 1 but surely cost a lot

p/s: i love absolute vodka

lolz...im only 15...but ive tried a sip of grape...i think...or was that wine..anyway...do u fill cooling after drinking chilled Vodca?? maybe some1 could experiment on vodca cooling..lolz

some might say it feels chilling but for me it is certainly hot when it enters the mouth...maybe u might wanna search google for cooling with alcohol...but i think if ur WC leak then certainly ur PC will burst into flames

yeah...but i dun think alcohol is corrosive towards plastic or metal... and if WC leaks even if without Vodca...still will go bye bye...lolz...i wonder if the CPU gets drunk..

That's a lot of Stolichnaya's that you gotta buy. But seriously....I don't want my PC to smell like a Saturday night lor.

Double posted snipe? Anyway, it works on principles that alcohol evaporates easier compared to nwater and in the process dissipates the heat absorb in the thermal transfer rather quicker compared to water. Same thing would occur if you mixed water with ester or rubbing alcohol

So, does this means that using alcholic water will gain more cooling in watercooling?

Interesting...

hehe sat night smells puke + sweat + 2nd hand smoke...not much of alcohol liao

offtopic: how is the ultra 120 perform...i find my scythe mine dam suck la....scythe mine + fm121 fan.... the temp still dam high....about 58 load ...

if you're prepared to face with alcohol's eroding abillity on tubes then go ahead

OTT: DAMN U PRONNNNN!!!! Fixed

OTT: That's Sunday morning

Slightly OT: 58C still not happy? Apa lagi lu mau? Unless wanna follow itu sarjan punya advice kasi lap IHS.

urm.. alcohol is not friendly on the tubings eh. Maybe we can use something less sensitive towards alcohol's erosion? Any idea? Might come in handy for my end-of-the-year mod.. Hurm..

lol...yeah sunday morning hhahaha
its hotter than my opty 146 man...kinda dissapointed with the temp of conroe....but i see gengstapo having 65+ degree orthos still goin on so i suppose it can take more heat than opty... my opty pass 60 degree bye bye prime fail

I think Tygon made some tubings specially for Alkali and acidic liquids.

Alcohol does not have alkali or acidic properties. I think alcohol makes rubber like substance hard and brittle. If someone has some Absolut or any other vodka, please cut a piece of tygon and immerse it. See what happens after a day or two.....small experiment with pics will do nicely.

But it isn't practical also. Yes it evaporates easier and therefore might cool better by a little. But if that happens, you will be pouring vodka in your reservoir every week! lol And moreover, there are some rubber parts in the pump, and I hate to tell you I really cannot imagine what alcohol can do to your pump.

Someone please try and see......ehehhehehe Coz I am also quite curious.

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Oct 12 2006, 07:32 AM

Damn jooo mythbusters!!!!

1 small pieces of R3603 Tygon

1 bottle of famous brand swedish vodka.

Black marking on the tygon as control, which will not be emersed in vodka

Question: Mau rendam how long?

Note: Someone please remind me to check on this later


Attached thumbnail(s)

Good going dude, now we know for sure whether the tubes are affected. Well soak it for a few days...........so that you know what it does in the long term. lol

walao
i want to add cola and drink it man......

how's using low boiling temperature fluid ?
maybe can get something like heatpipe theory working for watercooling setup

I can see one problem with low boiling temp fluid - evaporation. Evaporate so fast, then oyu everyday also busy filling water man. lol

yep.......i've seen this patented heatpipe technology which can handle a few hundred watts and it's not in the conventional heatpipe shape (it's like a box shape and multiple chambers inside)......i'm just thinking when i'll be able to see the real products for PCs.....

Didn't you try to solder a heatpipe and it ended up exploding and cutting your tummy?

yep, that was me

i was trying to improve the conductivity of the base to the heatpipe coz i felt that the solder there wasnt enough......guess i cooked until the heatpipe cant handle the internal pressure built-up

Sorry to misinform anyone by thinking that alochol is acidic or alkalic but alcohol remains a solvent which one has to remember. Which is why I said it will erode tygons over time. Heck if we normal water which has oxidised also can cause erosion in tygons what more alcohol

Errr....so how long do I have to wait before drinking my vodka?

Solvent, that was the word I was looking for. Yeah it should erode the tubings, but maybe tygon has added something to their tubings to withstand it. Sniper should get us our answer in a few days.

sniper on the roof: Oi wait fo a few days 1st. Pour another glass to drink first la.....dun lah drink the one you are experimenting with. lol

No it isn't. Tygon's do and will deteriorate and you don't want to see it doing so. It's pretty ugly.

And a waste of good vodka if you asked me

Why so fast jump the gun? Try 1st, then we can know what effects for sure. Simple experiment, dun worry when I go back to Malaysia I belanja Sniper the alcohol he wasted today. lol

even if the tygon does not take any affection from the alcohol, how bout the rubbers in the pump? Mr. Sniper, pls keep updating us with your observation.

That will probably kill the pump...eehheheh. But we are looking at the tygon now....unless you want to do the pump experiment.

Dude.. if you ain't gonna drink the vodka with the tube submerged in it I'll gladly take it.

By the way, if the tubings really don't go too bad wanna try adding some into your WC coolant? Now that's gonna waste some vodka...

haha... if add in a ratio 1:10 hmmm lets see...
assume the whole loop take up 1lit++ of water.
100ml of vodca shall be added.
1lit of vodca = RM75
100ml = Rm7.5

not so exp also ... how if i wan the liquid to be blue color? does adding golden bleu giving same effect as vodca?

My god, depserate-nya! Bloody alcoholic! lol

Anyway Sniper how is the tubing? Any change? Color? Still ok? Hardened? Update please....

So far... changes --> Zero

I think it'll take a lot more time to screw tygons

I din know Vodka is that expensive....btw...if the vodka does not do any harm to the pump and other components for WC system...who will start using this alcahol for cooling...btw i think we can use other alcaholic liquid instead of vodka?

Rubber is used in your pump. We don't know what it will do to the pump! So don't jump in yet dude.....lol.

sniper: the tygon is still in the vodka right?

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Oct 17 2006, 01:50 PM

Yup..still in vodka... in a airtight glass jar. There it shall remain until it corrodes or a ecosystem of drunk microscopic creatures evolves from it or this thread dissappears.

u try lor... update us the outcomes

what do u mean dissappears?

until this THREAD disappears. Lost in the other threads........understand? He was not saying that the tygon will disappear. lol

No updates ? i wonder what would happen later to that tygon.

owh ic...lolz

yeah...me too

i wonder what will happen to all O-rings,,..

this is apparently very amusing indeed~ =) =) however..1 question...sniper, are you "rendaming" the tubing at room temperature? or constant 40'c on idle CPU temp?

just a question that got into my head..=P if it works..i'm willing to spend on Zalmans Reservoir V2 =) and pour vodka in lolz..or Chivas or JackDaniels..i do hv 1/2 a bottle of chivas wif me

Mmm....good question. It's at room temperature since it's a lil troublesome to keep it heated up 24/7 for long term.

As for update, absolutely nothing is happening to the tygon thus far.

Tonight gonna try to see if there's a spare o ring that I can throw in to up the ante a bit.


Mmmm....

http://www.tygon.com/media/documents/S0000...13/tygr3603.pdf

Here it says that R3603 is resistant to most inorganic chemicals and corrossive gasses.

But here says not recommended for alcohol.

http://www.flexiblecomponents.com/data/che...tance.asp?ID=87

This post has been edited by sniper on the roof: Oct 24 2006, 01:11 PM

i think tygon would survive from the alcohol since most of the laboratories use them because of their chemical resistive (not all unfortunately). yea, dump in some plastic or rubber made stuff, such as o ring would be good for experimenting.

Edit : Oh crap, guys, there is no point for us to continue this test anymore. the ingredients for vodka consists of various types of flavorings, water and alcohol. and i just found out that the alcohol used by vodka is ethanol based. ethanol has a viscosity of 10.7 × 10-4 while water has got a viscosity of 8.90 × 10-4 (both in the unit of Pascal second and both in the temp of 25 degree celcius). so there is no way for vodka's viscosity to be lower then water somemore there are so many types of flavoring added to the vodka wic would greatly decrease the viscosity of it. and also the evaporates theory doesn't make any sense in this case because its in a closed loop, and liquid shall not be able to evaporate. maybe i'm wrong, so do correct me.

note : the smaller viscosity it has, the faster the liquid flow.

This post has been edited by ddww: Oct 24 2006, 03:05 PM

Chemistry, Biology 101

Ethanol C2H5OH, dicarbon pentahydrogen hydroxide, The C2H5 portion is soluble in organic compound while the OH is soluble in water. (Ethanol is an effective disinfectant in that it strips the protective lipids of bacterial/fungi/alge.. and the cells literally disintegrates. Ethanol is also a drying agent and denatures proteins. It is at 70% ethanol that it has the highest disinfecting power. More than 18% ethnanol is required to stop any bacterial growth. Ethanol greater than 50% is easily flameable.) This property is where plastics/rubber are prone to disolve. The hidroxide portion of ethanol may react when exposed to certain organic compound. Therefore your water cooling setup will be free from living contaiminants. Absolute ethanol boiling point is 78.4 °C.
Ethanol has a heat capacity of 2.4 J/g K, while water has a capacity of 4.2 J/g K. Therefore water has a higher capacity to store heat energy, while alcohol has a higer ability to disipate heat. Same with aluminium and copper with the same weight.. Aluminium stores more heat energy than copper, but copper dissipates heat faster, one of the reasons while heatsink touching processors core are copper and heatsink fins are mostly aluminium.

Ethanol in water also reduces surface tension, therefore increases the capillary action of the watery liquid.

B.t.w viscosity of ethanol and water is so similiar that is plays very little role in the ability of the pump`s flow rate.

Effectiveness of liquid use for cooling is more of heat capasitance as mentioned. In a close system...

This post has been edited by BeastX: Oct 24 2006, 04:20 PM

with these, i raised a few question,
1 - Ethanol greater than 50% is easily flameable. This property is where plastics/rubber are prone to disolve. With this, does it ever means that 25% of alcohol will do any harm to the plastic or rubber?

2 - Absolute ethanol boiling point is 78.4 °C. Ethanol has a heat capacity of 2.4 J/g K, while water has a capacity of 4.2 J/g K. Therefore water has a higher capacity to store heat energy, while alcohol has a higer ability to disipate heat.
The heat capacity and boiling point does not simply determine the heat transfer capability of a liquid does it?

3 - just to confirm, alcohol does not corrode copper and brass does it?

1. Edited my statement ... the percentage I have given are examples.. Organic compounds (rubber/plactics) that are reactive with ethanol will react with ethanol no matter the amount used. Chemical reaction is based on 1. strenght of reaction of the compounds. 2. present of compounds.. decreasing one particular compound decrease chance of compounds in contact with each other that triggers reaction. Therefore chemical reaction may last days/months/years until an equilibrium is reached.

2. Heat transfer (fizik) has a direct correlation with heat capasitance (Energy needed to increase one Kelvin) of the liquid phase, vanderWaals energy, molecular vibration, molecular movement and so on. Boiling point is where the liquid has reach its maximum heat storage ability and additional heat is transfered to the phase change to gaseous molecules.

3. Pure H2O has a much higher corrosive ability than ethanol... It is the measurement of the ability of the H+, proton to disassociate from the molecule for reaction.

This post has been edited by BeastX: Oct 24 2006, 04:43 PM

So....do I drink the vodka now?

hahaha~~ well...does alcohol have certain chemical reactions when reaches boiling point? like ethanol at 78.4'c? I mean~ for Intel chips..they can easily reach 60'c to 65'c with ease especially for a prescott...

So, here are a few things we already know: -

1) The Vodka doesnt hv any effect on the Tygon tubing yet
2) Alcohol has lesser corrosive feature than water on metal / copper

Sounds good~ now..on to a live test!? =)

erm... when do i learn those chemistry? its giving me a hard time understanding those above...

erm... ok, like this, wat happen to water at its boiling point? CPU reaches 70C does not mean tat the liquid in it would also be heated up to tat temp. there would always been heat losses during the heat transfer. copper does not fully transfer the heat generates by the CPU. aiks... i make this so complicated. not good in explaining. (so just for u to understand, CPU temp is always 8~20 degree higher than liquid used to cool it.)

owh i see...thats clearer now...

SPM science, and a more complete/detailed formulas the (rare) STPM or A-levels. First/2nd year university.

Temperature of the liquid used depends on the propertiies of the liquid, flow rate of the pump, amount of liquid reservoir and efficiency of the radiator. The temperature of the liquid varies through the system. Given time (..stagnant liquid..) the temperature of the liquid will be the same as the copper heat exchanger.

This post has been edited by BeastX: Oct 25 2006, 06:07 PM

ah ic..then ill have to wait till then and understand more...

lets gooo~~~ live test~~ malaysias own myth busting!~ lets see some pics! ^.^v

yupe, it indeed depends on the liquid used. however, liquid used in our daily WCS is quite limited. does not really agree upon the bold part above. tat condition does not apply for life water.

still waiting the status of tygon and o-ring from sniper

I think Tygon will not deteriorate, O rings I dunno.

But still why would you want to put alcohol in the loop? Won't make a difference one.

who knows. but i really really think that the best improvement (if got) would not be more than 2degree C.

I tought it is celsius and not Kelvin ?

This post has been edited by LittleLinnet: Oct 27 2006, 09:37 PM

Unlike Fahrenheit, Celsius scales the same as Kelvin, making it easier to calculate and use.

This post has been edited by BeastX: Oct 28 2006, 01:20 PM

Forgot where did I see it, was a long time ago. 1 guy tried using ethanol in his WC setup, actually worked slightly better than water. However, because its impossible to seal any WC system 100% from evaporation, what more its warm from all the heat, it evaporated easily and filled his whole room with ethanol fumes. He said it was like having a hangover 24/7, had to stop the experiment after a day or 2.

Btw, if you still want to try it out, methylated spirit (RM5 or so) sold at hardware shops is around 60-70% ethanol and 20-30% methanol with trace chemicals to make it undrinkable (drinkable alcohol is subject to tax). However, make sure you ventilate your room well..and no open flames! Perhaps a mix of water and spirit might work, since both have properties desirable in WC.

Spirit/alcohol
-flows better than water
-transfers heat better than water
-is electrically non-conductive

Water
-has very high heat capacity (need a lot of heat to make temp rise)
-high boiling point compared to many liquids including alcohol

Water's electrical conductivity is reduced when non-ionic substances like spirit are mixed/dissolved in it while spirit will not evaporate so quickly and absorb more heat when mixed with water.

no results from sniper yet? lolz.

Sien di lar...nothings happening to the o-ring or the tygon.

Let's call this myth... Busted.

so drank the vodka?

On second thought.....after a month of being in vodka...the tygon turned white'ish now..Will take a pic later when I get back home.

sniper on the roof.....,show us that picture bro........