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This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 6 2015, 09:18 PM

Errm I wonder what is non-denominational since they certainly have some creed right? If not affiliated with any of the better known denominations, then that makes them yet another denomination.

Are you Shurl?

Catholics don't believe that the pope is a divine being. However, the teaching of papal infallibility says that the Holy Spirit will protect the Pope from error when defining an article of faith intending to bind all the faithful.

For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren." - Pastor Aeternus.

Of course we believe the Pope is human and can make mistakes, but not when he intends to bind all the faithful to believe in an article of faith. For example, Pope John Paul II teaching that the Church has no power to ordain women. Or Pope Pius XII defining the dogma of the Assumption of Mary into Heaven, which is not a new teaching but has always been believed by the Church for ages.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 9 2015, 04:10 PM

Not sure what you mean by fore figure.

Ermm....ex-Cathedra is the Latin meaning from the chair, but it doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be actually sitting down on his throne.

It is not correct to say that he must consult the college of Cardinals and Synods before pronouncing anything infallibly. The power of the Pope is even above that of Ecumenical Councils, Cardinals, Synods. It just needs to be related to matters of faith and morals and in accordance with the the constant Tradition of the Church or Scripture.

See The Pope

Picture of Pius XII defining the Assumption of Mary:


Picture of Pius IX defining the Immaculate Conception:


This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 9 2015, 04:38 PM

Yes but if he defines tomorrow day is night and night is day, that is not related to faith and morals.

No idea, I just grabbed it from Google image lol...

Found it:



by Francesco Podesti. The image is currently in the Vatican Museum. Here's another perspective:



This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 9 2015, 05:27 PM

A well-sung and well-known hymn sung in Catholic churches during Lent.

You think the present Pope still have a big territories (Papal States) and army now? LOL....

If you are referring to the First Crusades preached by Urban II, then it was a response to the Muslim invasion and occupation of Jerusalem and the harassment of pilgrims going to the Holy Places.

Also this is not part of faith and morals so his actions would be dependent on whether they are based on just war theory, self defence, etc.

Now that you mentioned this topic, I think a Crusade is relevant now to repel ISIS based on what they have been doing so far. But that would be far-fetched considering the international political scene today.

As mentioned above it has nothing to do with infallibility. It should be considered in the light of Church teaching on just war, self-defence, etc. If someone claims he or she has instructions from the Holy Spirit, etc, then there must be an unmistakable sign to prove that. The Catholic Church is very particular about alleged miracles, signs, prophecies. All these are judged by the Church in light of constant Church teaching, Sacred Tradition, Scripture... to be sure that there are no diabolical forces at work.

How do you know he got instruction from HS? And certainly have to consider based on the principles mentioned earlier.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 12:53 PM

Yo Catholic brothers and sisters, today is the beginning of the nine-day novena (up till his feast day on March 18) to Saint Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church, and Protector of the Holy Family.




Novena to
St. Joseph

*NOVENA PRAYER
*(prayer to be said at the end of each day's devotion)

Saint Joseph, I, your unworthy child, greet you. You are the faithful protector and intercessor of all who love and venerate you. You know that I have special confidence in you and that, after Jesus and Mary, I place all my hope of salvation in you, for you are especially powerful with God and will never abandon your faithful servants. Therefore I humbly invoke you and commend myself, with all who are dear to me and all that belong to me, to your intercession. I beg of you, by your love for Jesus and Mary, not to abandon me during life and to assist me at the hour of my death.

Glorious Saint Joseph, spouse of the Immaculate Virgin, obtain for me a pure, humble, charitable mind, and perfect resignation to the divine Will. Be my guide, my father, and my model through life that I may merit to die as you did in the arms of Jesus and Mary.

Loving Saint Joseph, faithful follower of Jesus Christ, I raise my heart to you to implore your powerful intercession in obtaining from the Divine Heart of Jesus all the graces necessary for my spiritual and temporal welfare, particularly the grace of a happy death, and the special grace I now implore:

(Mention your request).

Guardian of the Word Incarnate, I feel confident that your prayers in my behalf will be graciously heard before the throne of God. Amen.

MEMORARE
Remember, most pure spouse of Mary, ever Virgin, my loving protector, Saint Joseph, that no one ever had recourse to your protection or asked for your aid without obtaining relief. Confiding, therefore, in your goodness, I come before you and humbly implore you. Despise not my petitions, foster-father of the Redeemer, but graciously receive them. Amen.

Source: EWTN

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 12:57 PM

God gave you a mind to think reasonably too..lol.

Let me give an analogy. If a politician tells you to that he intends to table a motion for a particular law in Parliament, certainly he also has to present facts and figures in order to get support.

Same goes for your question since the issue at hand is not related to Faith or morals, but to prudential judgement which needs to be determined based on the principles mentioned before. Back to your supposed scenario, if the principles of just war, self-defense etc are fulfilled, then I don't see any reason not to agree. But if I see those principles are not fulfilled, then yes, a Catholic may disagree and still remain a faithful Catholic.

A recent case was the invasion of Iraq by the US forces to overthrow Saddam Hussein. President Bush claimed it was due to chemical/nuclear weapons etc, but then Pope John Paul II was very much against the invasion because the principles of just war is just not there. There was no evidence of chemical/nuclear weapons in the aftermath of the invasion and the situation of Iraq just proved that the Pope was right.

On the other hand, those who claimed the invasion was justified because of Saddam's 'potential' of having chemical/nuclear weapons cannot be defended because that would be falling into the sin of presumption.

Hope this helps.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 02:43 PM

For your 1st point, you assume that there would be no questions?

2nd point: Yes, but God can choose to reveal the truth to whomever He wants and in the manner that He has said. No contradictions there.

I don't understand your 3rd point and how it relates to Amazon.com. I agree that only God knows what will happen tomorrow. But I don't see what you are trying to drive at with what we are talking about.

Humility vs. willful ignorance vs. stupidity are vastly different things, you know?

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 03:17 PM

"You have been revealed"? What is that supposed to mean? Are you claiming to be a prophet? Also..it seems you are equating humble people with stupid people. Sheesh.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 04:03 PM

Alright, how can you be sure that GOD revealed it to so and so? It will be the same question I ask every Protestant regarding the founding of their various churches/denominations/sects.

Every Christian ought not to be simply taken for a ride.

"Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1

"Who said: Take heed you be not seduced; for many will come in my name, saying, I am he; and the time is at hand: go ye not therefore after them. " Luke 21:8

"Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves." Matthew 10:16

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 10 2015, 05:14 PM

LOL...we Catholics don't make the claim that the Holy Spirit only speaks exclusively to the Pope. Again, I hope you get my points above. Test every claim, test every spirit.