Why not? For man to even comprehend the question or to acquired the consciousness to ask is itself incredible ....

The fact that there is the sense within for eternity which drives man .... in which only the ETERNAL ONE Himself can satisfy.

But when God Himself can answer is just speculation on your part.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 17 2015, 08:26 PM

The tree of life signify God as the embodiment of the divine life to man. It results in man's dependence on God as the principal of living. Things of life, for example, you eat, drink, breathe all the time, moment by moment. This is life. You are relied on them for your existence. God's original goal was to deify man with His life and nature to be His marvellous expression but not in His Godhead. What is communicable is man's destiny to enjoy of God.



The tree of knowledge issues in a kind of independent life in you. The more knowledge you give people, the more independent they can become. Knowledge causes people to be independent. When you take in the tree of knowledge, you will feel that you do not need to depend upon God. Instead, you will depend upon your knowledge. But if you take in the tree of life, this causes you to depend upon God. Life is a matter of dependence, but knowledge is a matter of independence. This is why it leads to death because the REAL embodiment of LIFE is just God Himself.

In other words, Satan's told a partial truth and partial lie. If man has chose the God Himself as his life, he will be one with God in life and nature. Satan told a partial lie.


Also, you made a wrong assumption, man was not a puppet. He was a human created with a human will. To say that knowledge equals the absence of thought is a bit absurd

Anyway, night from me.


Cheers!

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 17 2015, 08:51 PM

I think you stand on the assumption that first created man is without thought. No.

Eve choose based on her thought and understanding.

Also who is to say, that when we enjoyed God, aren't we filled with the knowledge of God through our experience of Him.

The early philosophers surely think so.

But got more grace ....

Resurrection life is always manifested in death situations

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 21 2015, 09:14 AM

-.- Sorry. What was the question again?

Just follow a recipe ... e.g. butter cake

Sounds like a veteran baker

Actually, Satan's rebellion causes 1/3 of the angels in heaven to rebel (Revelation 12:4 and 9) to become evil spirits. The living creatures which were on the earth at that time also joined Satan in his rebellion. Thus God judged them with water and they became the demons on the earth. Their lodging place is in the water. Man’s body is also their temporary dwelling place. Matthew 12:43 says, “Now when the unclean spirit goes out from a man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest, and does not find it.” This shows that the lodging place of the demons is in the water. If they cannot find water, they make the physical body of a human being their temporary dwelling place (Matt. 12:44-45).

It is not passed on as in human procreation because angels are er ... angels.

The heavens and the earth surely were defiled by Satan’s rebellion. God rebuked Satan, “Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries.” Therefore, the heavens and the earth were also judged by God. Job 9:5-7 says that God overturned the mountain in His anger, shook the earth out of its place, commanded the sun not to rise, and sealed the stars. We cannot find a record of such an event in human history. It must have happened before the Adamic world, at the time God judged the heavens and the earth due to the rebellion of Satan and his followers. Because of God’s judgment, the heavens did not shine. The earth was covered by darkness. God judged the earth by flooding it with water. So, “the earth became waste and empty,” buried under deep water, and covered with darkness (Gen. 1:2).

Isaiah 45:18 says, “God created the earth not a waste” (ASV). Job 38:4-7 also says that God “laid the foundations of the earth,” “laid the measures thereof,” and “stretched the line upon it;” then “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.” This means that He created everything in good order. So when the morning stars saw it, they were excited and sang, and when all the angels saw it, they shouted for joy. It must have happened in Genesis 1:1, not in Genesis 1:2. How could the morning stars sing and the angels shout for joy when the earth became waste and empty?

-----------------------------------------------
Regarding Adam and Eve, I think you misunderstand it was not due to ignorance or forgetfulness.

Rather, before man could take in God’s life, Satan came to Eve, Adam’s wife, tempting her to eat of the tree of knowledge. He did this by injecting his own devilish thought into her mind. Satan caused Eve to question God, His word, and His intention. Satan deceived the woman into thinking that she could be independent from God and even become like God. As a result of her being deceived, Eve took of the fruit and ate it, and gave some to her husband, who also ate.

It's really hard to share when you are not familiar that man is a tripartite being.

Satan first approach Eve by touching her mind. This was a question put into Eve's mind, and this question stirred up her doubting mind. Satan would always approach people by touching their doubting mind. Here Satan questioned something concerning God, and this questioning, no doubt, aroused the mind of Eve. Satan did this to keep Eve from using her spirit. When God comes to us, He always touches our spirit. When Satan comes to us, he always comes to our mind. The spirit is the "room" that God comes to touch, and our mind is the "room" that Satan comes to touch.

After Satan came to touch the female mind, he caused the human mind to doubt God's word (Gen. 3:4). In verse 1 of Genesis 3, he stirred up Eve's mind; then in verses 2 and 3 Eve began to talk to him. This meant that Eve had fallen into the snare already. Eve should not have talked with the serpent or answered him. She should have stood on God's word and run away from this tempter.

Satan also stirred up the human emotion to dislike God. This is proved by verse 5, where Satan said to Eve, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." This word was a word of evil, stirring up Eve's emotion to dislike God. Eve probably felt that God had kept some good thing from her. This is the subtlety of the enemy to poison the human emotion.

Satan seduced the human will to choose the tree of knowledge. After Satan's word in verse 5, verse 6 says, "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat." This is the seducing of the human will to make a decision to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

At this point, Satan had contaminated the entire human soul: the mind, the emotion, and the will. The mind was poisoned, the emotion was poisoned, and the will was poisoned; thus, the entire soul was contaminated.

When Eve and Adam took the fruit of the tree of knowledge, Satan entered into the human body to be the evil in man's flesh. Here we must use Romans 7:17-18a. Paul said, "Now then it is no longer I that work it out, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells." Paul said that in his flesh there was no good thing. Then Romans 7:21 says, "I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me." "The evil" must be the evil life, nature, and character of Satan himself, who is the indwelling sin in us. When sin is dormant within us, it is merely sin, but when it is aroused in us by our willing to do the good, it becomes "the evil." Verse 23 says, "But I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." Sin and evil are in man's members, in the flesh. This shows us that when man partook of the tree of knowledge, his whole being was taken over by Satan.

Ah, but you let your own assumption or implication to cloud the reading of the text. Just let the text speaks of itself.

In Romans 5 through 8 there are many indications that sin is like a living person: it entered (5:12), it reigns (5:21), it can lord it over us (6:14), it deceives us (7:11), it kills us (7:11), and it dwells in us (7:17). Once sin, the evil element of Satan, was injected into man, man was constituted a sinner. Now instead of being proper human beings, we are sinners by constitution. Romans 5:19a says, “Through the disobedience of one man the many were constituted sinners."

2 Cor. 4:4 states that "the god of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers that the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine on them" (2 Cor. 4:4). This agrees with the previously cited Scripture because this is how Satan guards and blinds the mind of man. Perhaps a man considers himself to be very intelligent, able to use various arguments to oppose the gospel. Some think that others do not believe because they do not yet understand. Actually, the eyes of men's minds have been covered up by Satan. Since men's minds are guarded by Satan, their "thoughts were hardened" (3:14). They were "doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath" (Eph. 2:3). They are "enemies in [the] mind" (Col. 1:21) because "the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7).

For me, this is the supreme explanation of the problem of evil in this universe. We are sinners not because we did something wrong, but rather, deep beyond our genetic make-up, we have a sinful nature.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't put words that I do not say. On the one hand, Satan tempts man; on the other hand, man has a free will. Again, man having a free will to choose.

My response was to say it is man's responsibility too in his choice. Yet, it is not born out of ignorance or forgetfulness.

The reading of the text in Gen 3:1-5 shows that both Adam and Eve knew or lack of the better term, were knowledgeable of the destiny of eating either tree.

1 Did God really say, You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said to the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.

4 And the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die!

5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make oneself wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.

The first fall not only brought about by man, but by a source other than man—the serpent, that is, the Devil, Satan, the enemy of God.

And yes, God is merciful and forgiving but He is also righteous. He provided the way of salvation, the seed of the woman as the gospel.

The problem is not that God is not merciful and forgiving, but rather today's people are NOT willing to take the way of salvation revealed in the Bible.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 07:43 PM

double post ;P

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 07:43 PM

I know, most people ... even Christian tends to come to this conclusion. It is a pity for Christian to have this kind of view

But what if, God's intention in creating man was to express Him and represent Him (Gen 1:26). In this case, God desired a ruling man, a man who would rule upon this earth; then He would be satisfied. It is because an angel of light rebelled against God before man's creation and became the devil: Satan sinned and fell; the Daystar became the enemy of God (Isa. 14:12-15). God, therefore, withdrew His authority from the enemy and put it, instead, into the hand of man. The reason God created man is that man may rule in the place of Satan. What abounding grace we see in God's creation of man!

However, if God were to deal with Satan directly, it would not be a shame to Satan, nor would it be a glory to God. Satan might say to God, “There is no creature who would submit to Your authority.” Thus, God keeps a principle of not dealing with Satan directly. God is the Creator; He will not deal with His creatures in His status of Creator. Therefore, He created another creature—man. His desire is that man would stand in the position of a creature to deal with Satan, another creature. God’s intention is to show Satan that there is a creature who is subject to God’s authority and who chooses to stand on God’s side. Although Satan as a creature rebels against God, there is another creature who submits to God’s authority.

God wants to use man to deal with His enemy, and He created man for this purpose. God wants the creature to deal with the creature. He wants His creature man to deal with His fallen creature Satan in order to bring the earth back to God. The man whom He created is being used by Him for this purpose.

If God have reset or start over, then what a loss. Out of the devil's utter destruction of God's purpose, God will work out His salvation to produce the church as His ultimate masterpiece ( Ephesians 2:10). God will regenerate, renew, sanctified, transform, conform and glorified man from the deepest death and sinful to be His masterpiece, the church, to be the warrior to deal and judge Him as a creature for God's need.

The first man failed with the temptation to be divine but the Jesus, the second man was victorious.

“If You are the Son of God, speak that these stones may become loaves of bread” (Matt. 4:3). It was as if Satan were saying to Jesus, “God appointed You and declared that You were His beloved Son, the Son of God, when You were standing in the waters of baptism. If You are such a Son of God, give the word for these stones to become loaves of bread.”

I believe we would have failed such a test. We would have performed a miracle to display to everyone that we are the sons of God. But if the Lord had done this, it would have been against the base of His baptism. He came to the wilderness to be tempted as a man, not as the Son of God. The Son of God is just God Himself. Who can tempt God? Jesus was a man in the wilderness. As God Himself, could He be hungry? With God there is no hunger, but as a man Jesus was hungry. Satan’s stratagem was to tempt Jesus to ignore His standing as a man and to assume His position as the Son of God. So the Lord answered him by saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out through the mouth of God’” (v. 4). He defeated the enemy by His standing as a man.

After the devil’s first stratagem, his temptation of the first God-man changed somewhat (Matt. 4:5-7). He brought Jesus to the wing of the temple, a very high place. The tempter said to Jesus, “If You are the Son of God, cast Yourself down; for it is written, ‘To His angels He shall give charge concerning You, and on their hands they shall bear You up, lest You strike Your foot against a stone’” (v. 6). This was a temptation enticing Jesus to show that as the Son of God He was able to act miraculously.

The first one was to tempt the Lord to ignore His position as a man and to assume His divine position as the Son of God by performing a miracle. When this did not work, the devil tried to make Him assume His position in divinity to display His power and His authority by having a miracle of protection by the angels. But the first God-man overcame His subtle tempter by saying, “You shall not test the Lord your God” (v. 7), indicating strongly that He was a man before God who should not test the Lord His God. Not to test means not to tempt. He, the first God-man, stood on the ground of a creature, recognizing that God was His Lord. He declared, “I shall not tempt My Lord. He is My Lord.” In being tempted the Lord had at least three statuses: first He was a man, second a creature, and third the Son of God. As a man, He could not test His Lord.

In Satan's third subtle temptation of the Lord, he offered the earthly kingdoms and their glory to the first God-man as a bait to hook Him so that He would worship him as God and serve him as his subordinate. But the first God-man saw through the evil tempter’s devilish device and conquered him by chasing him away and telling him in a shaming way that as a man before God He would worship God and serve Him only.

Don't you love Him

P.S. If you notice, the 3 temptations also corresponds to Eve's temptations

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 09:33 PM

I think it is kinda strange that the matter of giving becoming a cry for help. I can only respond in principle (as I don't know the condition you are in) ... that's is, if the believers, you are meeting with, is not forcing a 10% tithing, which, IMO is very unhealthy and should not be so.

That is the assumption, first and foremost lar.

If the church is always reminding the saints on how they practice ten percent tithing. This is too poor. The tithing of ten percent to the Lord is altogether an Old Testament thing, belonging to the law. There was no grace, life, or life power in that.

We are in the age of grace, which provides us with much supply of life. The dynamic salvation was accepted by Zaccheus in Luke 19:1-10. Immediately after being saved, that sinner gave up so much of his worldly possessions. That was not a tithing of ten percent; that was the very issue of the dynamic salvation. Likewise, on the day of Pentecost all those small members had everything in common (Acts 2:44, 45; 4:32-35). This was not one tenth of their possessions but one hundred percent. They put everything at the feet of the apostles, that is, at the Lord’s disposal. That was wonderful.

The problem is not how much or whether we MUST give. There is no such thing as forceful giving in New Testament. For example, the great Apostle Paul's journey was really only funded by one church. Can you believe it? And most of the time, he testified that there is no supply from the churches, and one time, he went back to tent making job so that he can continue. It is also that time, he gained Aquila and Priscilla in his jobs.

The problem is did you gain God in your giving?

Our God is a rich God. He does not need our money. Then why does He need our money? It is because where our treasure is, there will our heart be also (Matt. 6:21). Money is a material thing that belongs to the earth. Yet the Bible puts God and mammon together. This proves that man's heart is either touched by God or by money. God's test of a man's heart toward Him is in the way of man's giving.

E.g. If you find out that most of your money is spent on food or a thing. Then, you know that is where your heart is

The question is, in your giving, is there transaction with the Lord? Does God touches your heart in how much you should give? Or whether to give?

If there is no spiritual transaction between you and the Lord, then there is NO VALUE even in giving 100%.

Will still be taking breaks .....

Still recovering from a sickness.

I think you are tithing for the wrong reason or the source is not right. It should be a cheerful giving. Maybe you should just stop and come before the Lord and bring the matter to Him. Let Him deals with your motive and being on this matter.

It is not that if you don't offer, your life won't be blessed. Gee ... the fact, that you are living, breathing etc.. you are already blessed by God. Do not look at things materially and financially.

We don't dare to preach the real gospel. Sometimes when we preach the gospel, men ask, "Will there be any rice to eat when we believe in Jesus?" We should have replied, "When you believe in Jesus, the rice-bowl is broken." This is the church. It is not that we will gain more in everything after we believe.

In principal, our giving should be for the fulfilment of God's purpose. For example, I give for the gospel tracts, Bibles etc. for the gospel move in Russia, Europe and Asia. I cannot go to these places but I can participate in the gospel like the one who is going, by giving. Perhaps, that RM2 printed for the tract will save someone and that person will welcome you in the kingdom when the Lord comes back. Won't this be wonderful?



P.S. But I have to be fair, when one offers properly, he or she gained something ... it doesn't mean always mean monetary. But that is another matter.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 13 2015, 03:16 PM

Don't worry then. Just start with The Lord first.

Take care.

There are a few aspects.

THE TIME OF GOD'S SELECTION AND PREDESTINATION

1. "Even as He chose us...before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4).

God chose us before the foundation of the world. Before the beginning of time, before the creation of the heavens and earth, God chose us in eternity past.

2. "God predestined before the ages for our glory" (1 Cor. 2:7).

God not only chose us before the foundation of the world; He also predestinated us before the ages. After God chose us, He predestinated us. These two matters were accomplished by God in eternity past before the foundation of the world and before the ages. Therefore, according to God's selection and predestination, we were graced long before the foundation of the world. We may say that in God's eyes we were saved long before the ages. Furthermore, we should also realize that none of us has been saved by accident or chance. Every believer was predestinated for salvation long ago by God, and at His appointed time, God arranged the time of our life, the place of our living, the state of our human affairs, and the sphere of our environment to cause us to be saved. When we see God's marvelous work in this area and consider His unfathomable grace, we can only thank Him for His grace and praise Him for His works!

THE REALM OF GOD'S SELECTION AND PREDESTINATION

1. "He chose us in Him" (Eph. 1:4).

God chose us in Christ. In Christ refers to a realm and a base. For eternity this realm and base will not change. God chose us in this eternally unchanging realm and base.

2. "Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God"; "Those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated" (1 Pet. 1:2; Rom. 8:29).

God's selection and predestination are based on His foreknowledge. His foreknowledge is based on His foresight. He foresees clearly, so He has the ability to foreknow. He chose and predestinated us according to His foresight and based on His foreknowledge.

3. "Predestinating us...according to the good pleasure of His will" (Eph. 1:5).

God selected and predestinated us according to the good pleasure of His will. This is to say that God selected and predestinated us according to His will and good pleasure, not according to anything else. He has a will and a taste that are according to His good pleasure, and He chose us according to His will and His taste.

4. "Predestinated according to the purpose of the One" (Eph. 1:11).

God selected and predestinated us according to the good pleasure of His will. This was not done loosely; rather, He had a purpose, a plan. He chose and predestinated us according to this plan. He has spent much time and effort on us, and now we should respond to Him.

THE BASIS OF GOD'S SELECTION AND PREDESTINATION

1. "In love, predestinating us" (Eph. 1:4-5; see also 1 Thes. 1:4).

God selected and predestinated us in love. Love is not based on reason. God simply loved us; therefore, He chose and predestinated us.

2. "The purpose of God according to selection might remain, not of works but of Him who calls"; "He has mercy on whom He wills" (Rom. 9:11, 18).

God chose us according to His purpose. His purpose according to selection is not of man's works but of Him who chooses. This is seen in the case of Esau and Jacob, two brothers who were twins. When Esau and Jacob were in their mother's womb and had not yet done anything good or bad, God told their mother that He had chosen the younger, Jacob, not the older, Esau. This proves that God's selection of Jacob was not because of Jacob's good works, and God's rejection of Esau was not because of Esau's bad works. Before they were born, they had not done anything good or bad. Some may think that God chose Jacob because He knew that Jacob would be better than his brother Esau, but this is wrong. After they were born, Jacob was worse than his brother. He was crafty and loved to fight. He took advantage of everyone he knew. He cheated his brother, his father, and his uncle. No one who contacted him was spared from his cheating. God chose him even though he was quite bad. This proves that God's selection is not at all according to man's works. It is completely according to and based on God Himself and His mercy. He has mercy on whom He wills; He chooses whom He wills. This is completely a matter of His heart's desire.

3. "The selection of grace" (Rom. 11:5).

Because of His love and mercy God selected us according to His grace, not our works. His selection of grace came to us out of His love and through His mercy. His love first caused Him to look upon us and like us. It caused Him to consider us as desirable objects of His heart and to want to give us His grace. In spite of His heart's desire, our condition made us unworthy to receive His grace. If His selection were only according to love and grace, and not of mercy as well, His love and grace would only be able to reach those who matched Him. His love and grace would be unable to reach those like us who are so low and do not match Him. He not only has love and grace but also mercy. His mercy reaches further than His love and grace. His mercy causes Him to care for those who are low and unworthy so that His love and grace can reach us. His mercy reaches us, raises us up from our position of unworthiness, and makes us worthy to enjoy His love and receive His grace.

THE GOAL OF GOD'S SELECTION AND PREDESTINATION

1. "Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).

God selected and predestinated us according to His foreknowledge in order to conform us to the image of His Son so that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers. God wants His Son, our Lord Jesus, to gain many brothers that He might be the Firstborn among them. Therefore, God selected and predestinated us. He selected and predestinated us for the high goal of being the brothers and companions of His Son.

2. "Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He graced us in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:5-6).

Since God predestinated us to be the brothers of His Son, He also predestinated us unto sonship through His Son. We are God's sons together with His Son, and thus, we can receive His inheritance. His predestinating of us brings us into Himself and joins us with Him in life. Thus, He is expressed through us, the many sons, which is to the praise of the glory of His grace. This grace is simply Himself making us His sons by our partaking of Him. It is also our gaining of Him in His Son. This is the goal of God's selection and predestination.

3. "Appointed to eternal life" (Acts 13:48).

Since God predestinated us to be His sons, He has predestinated us to gain His life, the eternal life. Once we are born of Him, we have His life, and we are His sons.

4. "Predestined before the ages for our glory"; "In order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He had before prepared unto glory" (1 Cor. 2:7; Rom. 9:23).

God not only predestinated us to gain His life and to be His sons but also to gain His glory and express Him. Glory is God expressed. When God is expressed, there is glory. God predestinated us so that we could gain His life and glory to express His glorious being. This will be completely fulfilled in us when the Lord Jesus returns and in the coming new heavens and new earth (2 Pet. 3:13).

5. "Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Himself, unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him" (Eph. 1:9-10).

God predestinated us to know the mystery of His will, which is according to His economy, His administrative arrangement, so that all things in the heavens and on earth would be headed up in Christ that the glory of Christ, which is His glory in Christ, would be expressed in all things. Now He is making known the mystery of His will, and in the future, He will bring us into His glory, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of His will.

6. "You are a chosen race...so that you may tell out the virtues of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light" (1 Pet. 2:9).

God selected us so that we might declare His virtues in the world today.

Wisdom is not a thing, but rather a Person. In certain portions of Proverbs the wisdom of God is personified. This personification of God's wisdom (in type or shadow) is the second of the Trinity, the Son of God. Christ is the personified wisdom of God in the New Testament.

Christ has become wisdom to us from God. In 1 Corinthians 1:30 Paul says, "Of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption." In this verse Paul does not say that Christ became our wisdom; instead, he says that Christ became wisdom "to us from God." The expression to us from God indicates something present, practical, experiential, and ongoing in the way of transmission. For Christ to become wisdom to us from God indicates that there is the transmission of Christ as wisdom from God to us for our daily experience. Paul composed verse 30 in the particular way he did in order to point out to the believers that Christ should continually become wisdom to us from God.

God has never given us wisdom as a thing apart from Himself. Rather, God Himself in Christ is wisdom to us, constantly transmitting Christ, His wisdom, into us as the divine element that constitutes us wise persons. In this transmission, Christ as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption is transmitted into our being.

Christ became wisdom to us from God as three vital things in God's salvation: (1) righteousness (for our past), by which we have been justified by God, that we might be reborn in our spirit to receive the divine life (Rom. 5:18); (2) sanctification (for our present), by which we are being sanctified in our soul, that is, transformed in our mind, emotion, and will, with His divine life (6:19, 22); and (3) redemption (for our future), that is, the redemption of our body (8:23), by which we will be transfigured in our body with His divine life to have His glorious likeness (Phil. 3:21). It is of God that we participate in such a complete and perfect salvation, which makes our entire being—spirit, soul, and body—organically one with Christ and makes Christ everything to us.

In 1 Cor 2:7 Paul continues, "But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom which has been hidden, which God predestined before the ages for our glory."

According to verse 7, God's wisdom is in a mystery; it is a mysterious wisdom. Hence, God's wisdom is not like Greek wisdom, which is open and very shallow. Furthermore, God's wisdom is the wisdom which has been hidden and which God predestined before the ages for our glory. God's wisdom is our destiny, and this destiny was determined by God, decided by Him, beforehand. In eternity God determined our destiny. He predestined His wisdom to be for our glory. This means that in eternity He decided that His wisdom would be our destiny and glory. Our destiny is not merely the enjoyment of eternal blessings in heaven. Rather, our destiny is God's mysterious wisdom. God has predestined His mysterious wisdom to be our glory.

According to Paul's understanding in chapters one and two, real wisdom is the mysterious wisdom hidden in God. As we have pointed out, this wisdom is Christ Himself. God has made this mysterious, hidden wisdom to be our destiny. This means that God has determined that the mysterious and hidden Christ become our destiny. Do you know what your destiny is as a Christian? Your destiny is the mysterious and hidden Christ, the One who is the wisdom of God, the center of God's economy and our portion. We all know that Christ is our Redeemer, Savior, Lord, Master, and even our life. But probably you have never realized that Christ is your destiny. Nevertheless, this marvelous fact is revealed in 2:7. Here Paul says that there is a wisdom, a mysterious, hidden wisdom, a wisdom hidden in God, which is Christ Himself. Furthermore, God has predestined this wisdom for our glory. This surely indicates that God has made Christ to be our destiny. Basically, we are being saved to be a duplication of Christ.

Wisdom made known through the church.

Ephesians 3:10 says, “In order that now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church." The church is produced from the unsearchable riches of Christ. When God's chosen people partake of and enjoy the riches of Christ, these riches constitute them into the church. Through the church, the angels—the rulers and authorities in the heavenlies—may know the multifarious wisdom of God.

We who are saved and regenerated all have this kind of wonderful opportunity. When we who have the life of God gather together and call on the Lord, the Body of Christ will have a practical expression among us and will become a testimony of God in the universe. God in His economy has to obtain this Body, not only that He may be lived out and be testified among the human race on the earth, but also that the angels may know the multifarious wisdom of God.

All of us were damaged by Satan, and all of us are fallen, have sinned, and were corrupted to the point that we were dead. But because of Christ's redemption, the Triune God came to save us. Now we are not only regenerated but are being sanctified and transformed to become a corporate person—the Body of Christ, the church. This corporate person will be His testimony on earth among men and a declaration to the heavenlies that will cause all the opposing and rebellious angels to be speechless, to prostrate themselves, and to confess the multifarious wisdom of God.

Basically, the deification of man by God in His life and nature to be His corporate expression as the church will manifest His multifarious wisdom.

Now this is REAL WISDOM.

Yes. He chose and predestined us unto sonship.

According to His foreknowledge. Yes.

Er ... His choosing is not according to good or wicked. Jacob and Paul are lost cases. Yet they were chosen.

But you will never know if one is chosen till he dies. As long as he is alive, he or she can be saved.

Yes. That is the other side of the truth. There is a mystery that we human beings cannot penetrate its depth. Both side of the truth holds: predestination and free will.

Is the matter of salvation entirely a matter of man's will or God's will? Actually, it involves both aspects. Without God's will to save, no one could be saved. At the same time, if man is not willing to be saved, God has no way even though He has the will. Therefore, not only does God have to be willing, but man must also be willing. The Lord Jesus said, "How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her own brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Luke 13:34). These are the two sides of God's truth. It takes a willingness on both sides. With only one side, salvation cannot be accomplished. If we want to know the truth, we should not lay hold of only one side of the truth. When Satan tempted the Lord, he said, "It is written," but the Lord replied, "Again, it is written." No doubt it is written, but we must also pay attention to what is written again. Just laying hold of one or even a few verses to prove a side of the truth is inadequate. We must realize that there are many verses which confirm the other side of the truth.

Some have asked why the Bible says, on the one hand, that whosoever will may take the water of life freely and whosoever believes in the Lord Jesus should not perish but have eternal life and, on the other hand, that God predestinated man to be saved?

A believer described this mystery well:

This statement expresses the two sides of God's truth. Our experience can confirm this. When I first believed in the Lord, all I did was believe. After believing in Him, I looked back and wondered why I was saved when there were so many others who were better than I who were not saved. I was ignorant and did not know why it happened. I could only say that my salvation was predestinated by God.

No matter who we are, as long as we believe, we will be saved. This is the word for unbelievers. For the believers the word is God's selection and God's predestination. It is a big mistake to speak a word to unbelievers which is meant for believers. The Lord told His disciples, "You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). We cannot say this to the unbelievers.



P.S. Just like "quantum physics's superposition" , you will never know who is chosen and predestined till they are saved. As long as that person is alive, he or she can be saved.

When we human beings ask question, we always introduce "when" or "time" element into the question. And this is meaningless in eternity.

For example:
According to 1 Peter 1:20, Christ as the redeeming Lamb was foreknown by God before the foundation of the world, that is, before the creation of the universe: “Who was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was manifested in the last times for your sake.” Christ was foreordained, prepared, by God to be His redeeming Lamb according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world. This was done according to God’s eternal purpose and plan; it did not happen accidentally.

Revelation 13:8 speaks of Christ as “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” In the eternal view of God, Christ as the Lamb of God was slain from the time creation came into being. This means that in the sight of God Christ was slain not two thousand years ago, but from the time creation came into existence, that is, since the fall of man as a part of the world. God foreknew the fall of creation. Therefore, from the existence of creation Christ, the Lamb of God, was slain.

This is even more boggling

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 17 2015, 01:45 PM

Amen. Praise the Lord! Take care.

I can only say that God's wisdom is also exhibited in His redemption of fallen man. God foreknew that His enemy would rebel against Him, and God was prepared to face that situation. God also foreknew that the man created in His image for His purpose would be induced by Satan to sin, and He was also prepared to face that situation. Seemingly, the fall of man presented a great problem to God. However, this simply afforded Him an opportunity to express His wisdom in His redemption.

I don't think it is that grim.

Most Christians know that Christ created the heavens, the earth, and all things. But very few know that after His creation He is still continually forming the ages, age after age. Hence, the universe refers not only to the heavens and the earth but also to all the ages in the heavens and the earth. For example, after the creation of the heavens and the earth, Adam was created; thus, there was the age of Adam with its history. When the age of Adam was over, the age of Noah with its history began. After the age of Noah, the age of Abraham with its history occurred. When the age of Abraham was over, the age of Moses came, at which time the law was decreed. When the age of Moses was over, the age of David came. Then after all the ages of the Old Testament, there was the age of Jesus Christ, the age of the New Testament. These ages did not take place merely by human development or natural evolution; rather, they were founded, instituted, by Christ.

The purpose of Christ’s forming the universe is to afford God the opportunity to obtain what He wants. All the events that have happened in time and space --- all the things that have occurred successively in the universe --- have given God the opportunity to capture, save, and gain His chosen people one by one and to gather and blend them together into the one Body of Christ. In other words, the universe, which is composed of all the successive ages in time, provides the opportunity for God to gain what He desires in His economy.

The judgment of Babel terminated the race of Adam. The race of Adam was through with God because they had abandoned God and had joined Satan as one.

The judgment of the flood terminated the age of Cain.

Consequently, God began to call Abraham to begin the age of the called ones.

Next, Moses with age of the law.

Through Joshua He led them into the land of Canaan and divided the good land among them for their inheritance. After this, He appointed judges from among them until the time of Samuel. Thus begin the age of the judges.

Finally, Samuel came. God brought in the kingship through Samuel and turned the age. The age of the judges was terminated only after David became king over all of Israel. David unified the entire nation of Israel and was officially recognized as king in Jerusalem.

... skipped ...

The Lord Jesus brings in the age of grace.

In experience, we are be those who turn the age. Today, we are those who must be instrumental to turn the age of the grace to the age of the kingdom. Just like in Noah's days, we have to "built the ark" to turn the age. And be like Samuel, Daniel, Zechariah etc.


It's a long story.