There are some arguments that over-qualified people lose out in job hunts in the corporate sector.

One reason I could think of is that hiring managers or HR reps may not want to be outshone by someone who has reached the pinnacle of an educational pursuit. They do not want to rock the organisational boat where everyone else has at most only a basic or professional degree.

Do you think having a PhD/DBA would deny the person a job which he normally would be able to obtain under normal circumstances?

some dont want to hire as gov support these professional to set up own co.

Coaching experts have highlighted few reasons. In general, the overqualified employee is fundamentally less likely to be happy with their position. As a consequence:

(1) They will likely leave at the first opportunity.

(2) If they take the job, it's because they couldn't find anything better. This can lead to a certain resentment of their situation. From the company's point of view, the best employees are the ones that feel grateful for the opportunity to work there.

(3) They will be more likely to get bored with the work.

(4) They are more likely to challenge authority.

(5) At some point they may change their mind about taking the pay-cut and start asking for more money.

(6) Some companies are suspicious of their motivations when they are aiming for a lower position. Why are they applying for this job? Are they trying to learn about the company and possibly steal trade secrets?

(7) Many managers will feel intimidated/threatened by someone who is possibly more qualified than themselves, and will be reluctant to hire someone who might be able to take their job.

Sounds very plausible. Does that mean that these candidates will be confined to consulting jobs or academia (which is not easy to come by nor progress in given the late stage of entry), or drive a cab like Gurmeet Singh (PhD in microbiology) in the movie Taxi Taxi?

I am doing a DBA with a British university, part time. I am planning my next steps too. I think, if you are doing a PHD, first, you should not be going through newspaper for job vacancies. You should have a headhunter, you should have association, you should have lots of network, so that people know what you are doing. Also, if career is important to you, please choose the right Phd topic carefully and make sure that it has bright future instead of personal interest. For example, my thesis is Real Estate Finance - because I think Asia will have a property boom (or bust) and it will have lots of activities (I could of course be wrong...) )

Does your current employer know that you are doing your DBA and would they allow you the numerous time-offs to attend to your course in UK?

For the 3 uni that I applied to,all of them asked the employer to sign off a form. It is a big investment, so the key is why do it?

Beats me on why they need your employer to sign off on a form if it is self-funded. Would one be denied entry if he/she is unemployed, wants to do it full-time, or runs his own business?

If you are full time or self employed, you need to disclose it. The school is very strict. They receive over 1000 applications every year and only take 30-40 people because they need to allocate you to the right supervisors. And 1 professor can only supervise 2 PHD/DBA students. They dont have so many management related professors that suit everyone's interest. Based on past records, the drop out rate is 30-40% a year. So a class of 30 people usually left with less than 10 after 3 years. AND many people choose this school because they are strict.

The reason why they want the employer to sign the acknowledgement form is that if you miss the 1 week residency in UK, they will fail you i.e. you need to repeat the whole year. That is a 11,000 pound punishment. So, they make sure their asxx is covered.

I think many people underestimate the stress of doing a DBA. All of us are working and relatively senior in the company. Over 50% have children. Most of us do DBA because we want to publish or we want to write something new for our industry (I do it because I want people to call me Dr, so that I can lan si). I can assure you that if you are less than 30 years old with say 5-6 years experience, you will get no where with a DBA unless you are in consultancy business. But even if you do, you might as well invest that 5 years in your networking. That day one girl graduated with a PHD in Finance from University of Hong Kong (which is a good school), 28 years old asking for HK$20,000 salary. That is what you get if you dont plan your research degree properly......

Well I respectfully disagree about the phd topic selection. Without personal interest, it is hard to deal with the "onslaught" of papers we have to read through to start our paper. Then, we all know about the difficulties of actually writing the paper (framework, methods, inference omfg...) and the rejections that bound to come sooner or later by our committee.

Of course relevance of topic should be carefully assessed as well but personally, I believe any topic is significant, as long as it can impact the world positively. For that, I chose a topic that has great significance but hardly any career opportunity outside academic world (shadow economy).

This post has been edited by ru40342: Jan 21 2015, 09:38 PM

Whilst I appreciate your candour in revealing your motivation in pursuing your DBA, I kinda find it odd that you know of people doing DBAs solely because they want to publish. Surely there are more cost and time effective ways to publish that to enrol themselves in a programme?

And if I may, why would you say that a 30yo person with a DBA would get nowhere in a corporate career?

Sorry if I appear too inquisitive but I'd love to pick your intelligent mind.

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Jan 22 2015, 12:45 PM

A DBA with MBS will cost you around RM400k. A DBA with other foreign university will cost you around RM200,000. A world class MBA will cost you around RMB300k. If you are 30 years old, its either you just completed a MBA or you dont have an MBA. So it doesnt make sense for one to do a DBA at this age. If you are 30 with an MBA, you should try your very best to build your career, which is the reason or objective to get a MBA. The purpose of doing a MBA is to make money. I know it sounds terrible. But if an MBA does not make you a lot more money or open new doors for you, then the MBA is wasted (which is why you see that a lot of good schools compare their students pay before and after the course). Let me be a bit long winded. Assuming you work for big 4 accounting firms. After 4-5 years working, you realise that it is hard for you to switch into a good big firm (by that I mean, Google, JP Morgan, BCG go down all the way to Capitaland Singapore). You do a MBA with UCLA, that course is supposed to open doors for your investment banking (or consultancy) career or MNCs in Singapore or HK or Dubai or Sao Paolo. This is why you pay RM200-300k for a course. You want to make that money back. So, if you ask me, and I know it sounds harsh, one must not do a MBA with schools that rank outside of Top 50 in the world. Because it is a waste of money.

DBA is different. Assuming you are 30 years old. You tell your boss you want to go UK to study DBA (like me). He might sack you (he might not because Malaysian people are nice. But I might). If you go, who is going to do the work? At the age of 30, you are supposed to do handle a team/task, bring a deal back to the firm, build your network, fight and OT till 2 am etc. This has got nothing to do with whether one is overqualified or something like that. It simply means that you have not given your best in your career till you are so free that you can go do a DBA.

Just my view la...a lot more can be said on this.

This post has been edited by juniortok: Jan 22 2015, 01:17 PM

I understand our differences. I was merely encouraging those people who do a PHD/DBA to plan their career path too. Because I have seen a lot of people, especially those from Malaysia (myself included) being very passive in their career planning. We somehow have this attitude of "I study hard, and good job will come", which I see a lot of talent wasted.

There are of course people like you who prefer to stay on the academic side and focus on research. I respect that too, just that I wont do the same given my personality. I met a guy at a function around last year. He had been doing research into battery for 15 years, and you can imagine someone like me would have thought 'What a stupid topic. you have not got anything to do meh?'. The guy is now so rich because of the electric car boom in Asia......

So, you never know. ))

This post has been edited by juniortok: Jan 22 2015, 01:22 PM

I see your point and fully understand it. I simply cannot convince myself to go through years of researching on topics that I am not interesting in (doctorate and post doctorate). Perhaps our view of phd study is different. Anyway good luck in your research.

No no no, I am very interested in my topic, otherwise, I wont do it. I might have written it in my replies to others etc. Dont know.

If you read it again, you will see that I just said we must plan the career or the publication side of things as well. Not just research.

I must have misread you somewhere. Well of course we need career planning (especially at our age ). I was required to publish my papers during my phd and in my opinion, every phd graduate should too to not only share our finding, but also experience the "deepness" of the sea of knowledge (apologize for the sudden philosophical tone )

That being said, prepare to be rejected (countless times) by journal publishers

This post has been edited by ru40342: Jan 22 2015, 01:59 PM

I think this has oft been repeated and we should know from you by now that your DBA from Manchester is the most expensive in the world. Congratulations for making the choice of spending that money. I would not get started on MBA fees as that is another topic which was well covered in other threads.



Maybe it is me, but I tend to get confused when you keep writing about MBAs when the topic of discussion is on DBA/PhD but let me indulge in this a bit.

There are quite a few assumptions in your assertions there.

Firstly, I do not understand on what basis you use the age of 30 as your age benchmark on one having obtained an MBA or not.

Secondly, whether or not one should build his career at 30 is a matter of individual choice. Do you have any source for saying that a 30yo's objective of getting an MBA should be to build his/her career? Also, did you do a study on motivations where you found that significant respondents sign up for MBA to "make money"? Why would an MBA be deemed wasted if it doesn't result in increments in salary? Have you considered opportunity costs too? I think the last I read, MBAs has ceased to be a passport for accelerated career growth and motivations for doing one has surely changed. Not sure if your study, if at all, has covered that ground or if its just your personal judgement.

Why are you presuming so much on what a boss may or may not do? Every industry is different and to assume that a 30yo should be "bringing deals back...OT till 2am" is just too presumptuous to be taken seriously. So, how did YOU tell your boss about your DBA without getting sacked or accused of being too free?

But I take note that you state that these are all entirely your views, and hence anecdotal and tainted with your personal worldview. But would be great if you can back these up with stronger evidence.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Jan 22 2015, 05:05 PM

Hahahah starbucki, I don't need to justify. Forum is meant to share personal experience, it's not consultancy. You make the best decision for you. ) u r the one asking, I was merely replying.

IMHO, No such thing.
I earned mine with no prior job experience, and started as low as junior engineer for a SME specialist engineering firm, with another 5 PhDs also in the same department, mixed of experience among them; the owner is a Dr too. After being employed for almost a decade, i'm now my own boss, also hired couple of fresh-grad PhDs, with no prior experience.

possessing the "pinnacle of an educational pursuit" sounds rather self-awareness to me. A young PhD is employed not for him/her being called Dr, let alone the job experience, it's other skills the employer sees.

if still in doubt. Try look for MNCs, they don't normally deter PhD applicants.

good luck

You are absolutely right, of course, if you are referring to STEM phds working in STEM environment.

The context of my question was really for the business/corporate environment.