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 Gold Investment Corner V8, All About Gold

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cherroy
post Dec 11 2014, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(Thradash @ Dec 10 2014, 05:42 PM)
A gold backed currency coupled with a fractional reserve system will set a hard mathematical limit to how much 'money' we can have in the system... and that will cause deflation as the number of goods start to increase over time... but i think deflation is better than inflation... true many companies wont beable to exist in the new situation... but we have examples of companies who can make it... and make it really big in deflationary industries... in fact phone companies and pc companies had it real bad... deflation for product price but inflation for raw material inputs...

i just don't see why we can't force more companies to run that way... efficient... innovative...
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Because over the pass, we do not have deflation so economy still going.

Deflation in ordinary phone resulted, the last time leading phone manufacturers Nokia, no longer exist.

You can argue Iphone is doing well, but Iphone doesn't have deflation, Iphone price never drop.

You can see how deflation kill company/industry in ordinary phone.

That's why you see intel processor won't drop to RM100 per piece, last time Pentium 4 cost Rm400, now i3 also Rm400.
There is no deflation in computer, last time you bought a PC at Rm1000~1500, now still need Rm1000~1500, just spec upgraded.
If PC having deflation drop to less than Rm500, then whole PC industry will crumble down. Nobody can survive with a new PC just cost Rm500.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Dec 11 2014, 09:54 AM
cherroy
post Dec 11 2014, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Dec 11 2014, 10:22 AM)
Seriously, do you even check the facts before you write?

Nokia was affected not because price of phone dropped. But because they were specialist in mobile phones not smart phones. The recent years saw a boom in smart phones and normal mobile phone has lost it's significance.

And Nokia is still here. In fact, Nokia stocks went up 4 times compared to 2 years ago.

Really.

I wonder if you actually even understanding what currency swap means. If USD was so stable and trusted, there will not be a need to do this in the first place.

Also for computers, they are getting cheaper actually. I mean the amount of monies you need to get a computer of decent spec is getting lesser and lesser.

I think 17 years ago, you need at least 2.5-3k to get a decent computer.

And dun forget even by your definition, the price of computer remains at current price despite the fact that currency decrease in value. In other words, in real terms, the price of computer actually dropped.

Do you even analyze what you say carefully?

Did you seriously make money from the stock market? Because you cannot even do basic analysis.

You just want to win arguments right?
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Last time there were ordinary phone last time cost more than RM1000 (my first hp), just can text and phone, now there is no ordinary phone can be sold at more than RM300~400. Price tumbled for ordinary phone.

There was no ordinary phone at sub Rm100, but now there is even at Rm60!

If Nokia still can sell ordinary phone at RM1000, Nokia still going strong.
Fyi, Microsoft has bought over Nokia, and they don't intend to use the name Nokia for the future model.

That's why computer industry is not doing well, many old computer shops closing one and another. Only very competitive players can survive at razor sharp thin margin.

Deflation/inflation is measured by price, not currency value.
Price Rm1500 in 90's, now Rm1600, there is inflation of Rm100, even though the value of Rm1500 is different nowadays. 2 totally different front of issue.

What I interest to post is fact and figure, and the consequence of money supply of gold backed currency, never know nor interest whether there is win or not in argument. No prize for it. smile.gif




cherroy
post Dec 12 2014, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Dec 12 2014, 04:58 AM)
Your argument is very flawed and you know it. You like to use USD as the benchmark. So did computer price decrease in terms of USD then. After all, for most major hardware company, they are measured based on this standard. You are starting to look more and more absurd really.

Most analyst out there would not argue that computer prices are getting cheaper and cheaper. You are the only 1 who is saying otherwise just to prove a point. But you know in your heart it is totally absurd.

Why dun u use zimbabwe dollars then. I am pretty sure the price of computers increase a lot in terms of zimbabwe  dollars.

Anyway you are wrong regarding Nokia not being around. That is a ridiculous assumption since Nokia was once the dominating player and they could easily get into the smartphone arena given that even Samsung is doing that

I am pretty sure that if Apple did not come in, Nokia will still be dominating in the mobile phone industry. Nokia could sell their phones at 150 and still make a profit. The thing is, there may be other brands that sell at a cheaper price but then Nokia is already an established name and that commands a premium as well. I think you are the only one out there who says that Nokia died off because of price competition. Also the reason why phones are sub 100 right now is because they are not in demand. Nokia could still sell some of the higher end phones for 400 even 500 plus if not for the ascendency of smart phone. The fact of the matter is, mobile phones are now obsolete because of the smart phone. Nokia suffered because of this. You are twisting something that everyone knows just to fit your argument. Most people with a brain would know how absurd your basis are.

Even in the smart phone arena, phones are getting cheaper. You have Xiao Mi and the others creating really cheap phones. Apple sell their phones at a very high premium. Everyone except you knows that. That explains why they have such a strong balance sheet. It's the brand. They can afford to sell their phones at a high price and people will still buy because they are brand conscience.

I have said that a gold backed currency is not ideal but necessary. But then seeing that you do not even get your basics correct, it is pointless going further on this.
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If there is no smart phone pop up in the market, ordinary phone may still around RM1000 per piece.
And Nokia won't be at current state.

Ordinary phone drop in price? Yes --> deflation. Disregard the demand issue or not, we are talking about deflation effect to company, not company competitive or not.

Nokia is doing fine and making hefty profit? They may manage to turn the loss recently, but was bleeding severely previously few year.
I don't think need to find article to tell the state of Nokia, common known issue.
But this is first time, I came across saying Nokia is doing fine in phone business.

Did Iphone price have deflation (drop in price), this answer all the mother question of deflation.

Gold backed currency issue is not about not ideal, but unworkable.
Remember the previous 9 person hoarding 99% of the money example I gave?
This simple model already illustrate how unworkable gold backed currency. Don't need to dig into more details.

I stop posting long explanation simple Q&A will answer all (if not saying twist again doh.gif )

Ordinary phone drop in price? Yes --> deflation -- company struggling
Iphone drop in price? No --> no deflation, company making decent profit.
Xioami drop in price? No it starts off with currency pricing --> company still doing ok.



cherroy
post Dec 12 2014, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(ronho @ Dec 12 2014, 10:50 AM)
Guys..this is GOLD INVESTMENT thread.
Please keep to topic.
*
Sorry for OT. Back to gold investment related issue. Ty.




cherroy
post Dec 26 2014, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Sham903n @ Dec 25 2014, 10:32 PM)
paper gold easy.. but bank makes lot of profit.. not you.
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Physical gold seller make even more profit... whistling.gif

Paper gold
Buy 130, sell 133

Physical may be
Buy 120, sell 150.

Both physical gold and paper goes up and down at the same pace one, in fact paper gold movement is following more closely to the gold market instead of physical.

cherroy
post Dec 28 2014, 06:34 PM

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QUOTE(drfeelgood @ Dec 28 2014, 06:23 PM)
But the risk of [/B] PAPER [cool.gif gold is, you hold nothing but paper. Better to hold physical gold.

Because when you open a Gold Investment account as they call it, the bank states, that, it is not guaranteed. Even to convert back to physical gold is a problem.

On top of that. The prices are determined by the bank and by the bank themselves. If they suka suka say... when you want to sell, the price drop, you cannot say anything, just suck thumb.

or worst case scenario, the bank tutup kedai, you still just holding a piece of paper.

Thats why physical Gold is best.

*
There is no best in term of risk,

Paper gold - bank close shop

Physical - stolen, robbery, fake gold

The risk of bank close shop that resulted in customer deposit/account gone, as shown in the past, none.
Stolen, robbery, fake gold, plenty out there, even safe deposit box also got stolen cases.

So, I don't think need to give quantitative assessment of risk involved, everyone has own preference.

PS: Please do not post any Pm me in the post, normally it will be deleted as this is not a place for soliciting. Ty.

cherroy
post Jan 7 2015, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(lisiang @ Jan 7 2015, 09:59 AM)
Is investing in Gold is a good choice? New to the working life and looking for alternative of income.
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Gold cannot generate your passive income.
You can only gain when gold price rise and you sell off your gold.

It is not a place for looking for alternative income.
cherroy
post Jan 8 2015, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(drfeelgood @ Jan 8 2015, 08:02 AM)
That is what many people do not know. Gold can be a platform to generate alternative income. But since i cannot ask ppl to pm me.. if not i will be deemed soliciting...
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Basic fundamental of gold,
Gold doesn't carry interest or any yield, 1kg cannot become 1.1 kg even after 100 years, so it cannot generating profit/income without doing anything, so it cannot pay you any passive income.

Those "gold" investment method can generate passive income one, please leave it yourself, ty.
Public may be better off without knowing it... whistling.gif


cherroy
post Apr 9 2015, 03:00 PM

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With GST started, it makes physical lesser attractive compared to gold investment account.

Whereby physical buying will incur GST,
while gold investment account none.
cherroy
post May 5 2015, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(iHeartJewelry @ May 4 2015, 10:43 PM)
Actually how do we earn from gold investment?
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QUOTE(mat2020 @ May 5 2015, 01:44 AM)
If physical gold investment --> Buy LOW, Sell HIGH
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Disregards whatever type of gold (paper gold/gold investment account or physical), for gold investment,
buy low and sell high is the only route to gain profit.

Gold doesn't yield interest, nor dividend like FD/bond or stock.


cherroy
post May 5 2015, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(sinbad2k @ May 5 2015, 03:46 PM)
it's a no brainer investment. buy low and sell high as mentioned. but the period of waiting for it to go real high could be real long usually. if your want something quicker go buy shares.

*
Last cycle needed about 25 years before the price actually broke the upside.
It was hovering around USD250~400 range for 2 decades plus.

cherroy
post May 6 2015, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(robotica @ May 5 2015, 10:35 PM)
yes u r rite about the last cycle. that's why 90% malaysian buy gold as jewellery only 10% buy bullion as investor. it's always 2 side of a coin either ur in stocks or gold but may i ask if u hv experienced 1997, 2000, 2008 stock market crash? if u hv u won't love stocks as much as u do now. smile.gif
*
I went through all this period, and experienced how hard the stock market can crash.
But I/people should love stocks more since then.

Look at the stock market now after those crisis, good stock price and indices are all at all time high across after the crisis.
cherroy
post May 6 2015, 07:57 AM

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QUOTE(laoahpek @ May 6 2015, 03:46 AM)
how low considered low in your opinion ?

per gram hmm.gif
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The concern for me on gold investment is not how low the price it will get (although personally think gold price won't plunge too deep or far away from current level), but how long it takes to go back up.

Last cycle was 25 years, I may not have time to wait it again.
Mind that if it doesn't go up, it doesn't generate any interest or dividend, zero income from the investment throughout the period.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 6 2015, 07:58 AM
cherroy
post May 8 2015, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 8 2015, 10:30 AM)
i thought it is required to have the amount of gold sold on paper to be backed by the physical gold self?

it is always convertible albeit its made very not economical to do so

correct me if im wrong
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There is no need for paper gold being backed by physical gold amount.

But banks can hedge themselves with the gold futures market or whatever financial tool on gold, as banks also do not want to expose themselves in term of gold price up or down.

cherroy
post May 8 2015, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 8 2015, 11:34 AM)
i see.

than what gives ppl confidence in it?

u merely see the prices up n down.. and its not even insured by PIDM hmm.gif
*
The trust on bank honour the price.



cherroy
post May 8 2015, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 8 2015, 11:48 AM)
then.. its no diff trading over the counter isnt it..
risk wise..

as gold is always promoted to be a very stable investment?
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Paper gold offered by banks is quite a stable and secured, so I don't understand what is the issue of "risk" mentioned.

The risk with gold is always gold price going down or stagnant.
cherroy
post May 8 2015, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 8 2015, 03:02 PM)
refer above reply hmm.gif
*
FD, deposit more than 250K also don't covered under PIDM.

So?
cherroy
post May 8 2015, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 8 2015, 03:09 PM)
FD can make ur money become lesser?
*
Keeping physical gold also won't spare one from losing money as well.

Paper gold is just a product to substitute physical gold.

Gold itself is an investment to start with.



cherroy
post May 9 2015, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(call me random @ May 9 2015, 08:20 AM)
thats quite a big word there  sweat.gif

i got in when its already low price, happy with it now, until i get more of them, pls dont go up just yet brows.gif
*
For 20 years? laugh.gif
cherroy
post Jul 21 2015, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(pustapazik @ Jul 21 2015, 05:05 PM)
Let em be bro 😊 it take almost 30years for the gold to fly back after the last slammed. Technical my ass 😂😂😂
*
From the chart posted, there might be similarity between 1980 peak with 2013 one. sweat.gif

The pattern look quite identical.

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