I was spamming when I fought you with Katarina just now. I got fed up playing carefully and strategically and wanna see how it felt to be a spammer. Won 4 straight wins with Chloe spamming d/b+4,4.. So this is how they feel beating my King! All the sidesteps, grabs, wavedashes and backdashes, and footsies I painstaking did while I was King against these spammers...... I get why they're gleeful on their spam approaches now. Time to return the favor.

Was playing spammer-style Lucky Chloe today to prove a point: Ranks are no indicator of skill or quality of the player. I was able to easily spam d/b4,4 with variations of infinite d/b4 or a standard 4 to reach Mentor rank. While the King rank I worked so hard with from the beginning got crushed to Initiate rank, down from Mentor under the weight of disgusting serial spammers.



Playing hard, tactical, strategic patient gameplay since the game's release 2 weeks ago = King at the low rank of "Initiate",

Playing spam-happy with mashing buttons and repeated moves, no skills required whatsoever for ONE single night= Lucky Chloe at a higher rank of "Mentor".

PaperzMask, I'm sorry you had to see me play Katarina like a spamming noob against your Claudio. I was trying to prove a point that it takes very little work from spammers to undo all the hard work of a serious player.

I fought a very good King player named "St_Dutamas", who made me miss my King so much. At this rate, I think I'm going back to King and ignore whatever rank my King gets to, and just play for fun. Obsessing over this ranking bullshit and getting riled up over move spammers just gets in the way of that: having fun.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 27 2017, 04:55 PM

change your preference when you search for online game in Ranked or Player Matches, choose "rank difference" to "Any" instead of +3, +2, etc. That number indicates how far the difference in ranking you are between him/her and you. you'll get matched with higher ranked players, but they may choose not to play with you after looking at your rank. Rank is like this virtual "street cred" to them, some even stopped playing once they hit that rank to preserve their name with that rank in eternity on the leaderboard.

But then again, like I mentioned earlier, "rank" isn't an indicator of how good a character is.



This Akuma for example, got to "Expert" rank just with his "sweep", "fireball" and "throw" spamming tactics. But an "expert" he is not.



That's what most Akuma spammers do online. Watch him get schooled with a simple King's u/f+4 knee.

Edited coz got no answer from the person tagged, and found out the answer to the questions before the person tagged gives an answer. If he even intend to answer at all.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 30 2017, 06:02 PM

A single night's work on PS4's version. Figured out how to play local matches.



Not sure if i wanna go through that again. Felt like playing underwater because of the input lag. I kept missing my wall-carry combos because of input lag compared the PC version I'm accustomed to, and had to resort to shorter rudimentary strings.

The lower rungs are replete with spamming Alisas and Laws. Returned the favor to them.

Another way of learning offensive and defensive aspect of the game is to go into practice mode and set the target dummy to play as CPU at the hardest level. Enable the "Recovery Frame" option, and learn and anticipate its moves and see if there are any breaks in his combo strings. Breaks in combo strings appears when the dummy opponent doesn't light up in blue.

This way, there is no lifebar to care about, you have endless strings of combos you have to learn to defend against, instead of restarting every time you kill a ghost data character in Treasure Mode.

Even so, CPU opponents are prone almost exclusively to attack combos, not throws. They rarely throw. If you're on PC, there's a throw-breaker learning app you can install to learn how to throw break. Which helps immensely to see if you're breaking throws too early, too late or right on cue.

It's called "TaikoThrowBreaker": http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showt...threadid=132630



P/s: your timing MAY differ if you're used to the PS4's version of Tekken 7, compared to PC's version. Running at optimal settings 60fps on PC, Tekken 7 runs with an input lag of 6.3f, which is faster compared to 7.2f for the PS4 version. Gets even better at 5f if you disable V-Sync and use Nvidia's G-Sync instead. I guess that's why Harada doesn't allow cross-play between PS4 and PC. Lower input lag = faster move execution, the PC guys will have 2 frame advantage when that happens, and in the situation where Kazuya players likes throwing tons of Doriyas around, it's a difference of 3 Doriyas and 5 Doriyas, based on how good you can execute Doriyas. http://shoryuken.com/2017/06/02/tekken-7s-...s-predecessors/

What's a Doriya, you ask?



Have a Doriya. Or three, or five in a row. Depending on how good you are doing these Doriyas

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 29 2017, 05:30 PM

Online lags changes the way you play to compensate. As much as I dont wanna spam d/b+3+4,4,4,4, I had too, to stop them from taking advantage of the lag to execute moves earlier because of that lag and to stop them from rushing me down.



Specifically, this is what JDCR says:











From the mouth of the best Tekken player in the world himself. And since the PS4 version is the version used for tournaments, players are forced to play a certain playstyle only. I believe what he meant was because of the 8 frames of input lag, most players opt to play the "rushdown" game, continuously attacking the opponent with safe strings, instead of being creative by sidestepping or other defensive maneuvers. This severely limit the options for characters who derive their offensive moves from the sidestepping move alone. Even worse when you add online match lags to the pre-existing input lag, even simple moves like blocking low on instinct, isn't possible because reacting on instinct means you see the move about to be executed and you react from there on reaction, you already hold back or down back on your stick to block, but because of the input and online lag, your (b) or d/b to block isnt registered 8 frames later (if there are no online lag, with online lag even worse), and most low attacks will hit, and with low attacks into launchers, you get carried to the corner by combos that you know you've blocked but the game doesn't register it fast enough due its input lag.

This forces you to do two things: either you land the attacks first and rush the opponents down with a flurry of attacks first before your opponent does, or you do a "hard read" and block and hope what you guessed the attack strings are the ones you prepared to block for. That's what you notice most players do online these days, they rush you down with attacks, particularly the one who desperately wants their moves to hit first. The inherent lag in the game has turn them into this kind of playstyle, when they probably played strategically earlier by dashing back and see what kinds of moves their opponent execute first. It has turned a "wait and see analyticaly gameplay style" player into a "rushdown playstyle" player, and some characters aren't made for rushdowns. I mean, how do you play as King as a rushdown character? Other than the Stagger Kicks (d/b+3+4,4,4,4)? And King's launchers into combo? That's why you see most King player do the knee all the time. It's the ONLY launcher that safe and fast enough on execution and relatively fast to recovery when blocked. King is a "wait and see" character, he moves around the ring waiting for opportunities to do his moves and grapples, because that's how you play King. But because the input and online lag forces you to play rushdown, King is rendered almost useless.

What next? Change characters? We all know of the "Jack of all trades, master of none" and what it means. You becomes averagely good at the number of characters you can play as, but you're never exceptionally good at any of them, just average. And even choosing your next character to play as or be your next main character, will be influenced by fact that these input lag and online lag exists. Pretty much soon, if it isn't fixed by Bamco/Harada, you'll see only Dragunovs and Jacks in tournaments and online matches.

ADDENDUM: Those who kept up with Tekken World Tour knows who SpeedKicks is. An exceptionally good Hwoarang player (hence his callsign, "SpeedKicks" ):



I'm not saying the PS4 version is bad, it just need input lag adjustment.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 30 2017, 06:43 PM

Gonna test this tonight.



Tekken 7 Frame Data Overlay.

Another pro player defecting, leaving PS4 for PC. After the concerns put out by current reigning champion duo, JDCR and Saint. This time, it's the Japanese pro player, Nobi.

https://twitter.com/Flying_Wonkey/status/879961456841601027



The input lag problem is real.

Quick edit: another defection happening. The MainMan SWE, Tekken player Youtuber whom channel has the largest audience count for TTT2 and T6, has moved to PC from PS4. Its a 59 minutes stream video, but his take on the game comparing between PS4 and PC is evident in the first few minutes of the stream.



Controllers and sticks are plug-and-play, controls more responsive, and matchmaking are faster on PC.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 1 2017, 07:42 AM

Tekken is about adapting to situation, and this applies to the experienced only lag as well. 8f of input lag, you can argue that it's the same across both players playing head to head with each other in offline tournament situation. But input lags reduces the chances of you seeing competitive tournament players playing on consoles from doing risky-yet-flashy-hyped-AF moves and tactics because they're aware of their restriction on executing those tactics and moves in laggier playspace. You'll likely get more "poke and wait and see" back and forth tactics than JDCR's riskier "sidestep, whiff and punish" kind of maneuvers.

Just look at how players are playing online on laggier network matches. I myself had to adapt to situations like this. For example, on the PS4, I play more footsies and jab/pokes with very very restrained execution of knee hop launcher, compared to on PC where I knee hops much more freely because I know I can sufficiently react quickly on instinct if my knee hop whiffs and had to block on punish. Playstyles, like how JDCR put it, are affected. And because of that, players are more like to play defensive turtling than playing more confidently throwing out riskier moves. All because you second-guess yourself, asking yourself if I do this move, with this laggier environment, can I get away with this if I whiff my attacks? Coz on an environment with immediate move execution without input lag, you can react instinctively enough. On an environment that takes longer execution time to do your moves, you're playing a guessing game because you have to pad your moves and hope to guess correctly that your opponent won't do a move or maneuver that will counter that move. You're playing a guessing game instead playing on instinct. Fighting games are not played like chess, fighting games are instinctive fast, quick bursts type of games.

When fighting games becomes more of a calculated guessing game than a game you react on instinct, it's no longer is a fighting game. It becomes a game with randomized/RNG element in it, rather than knowing for sure on your own ability that you know you can consistently do Doriyas but because of the input lag, your ability to do Doriyas has severely handicapped you as a player. The result? People play safe. Fighting game with player playing safe isn't exactly exciting to watch.

A simpler example is this:

King's wall-carry combo: u/f+4, d/b+4,3, 1, 1~2, f,F+1. Requires very tight input timing, particularly the last f,F+1 move as it clips your juggled opponent on float. I can do this string more freely on PC than PS4 because of the faster execution window and minimal input lag on PC than PS4. I've labbed (practiced the move string hundreds of times in Practice mode) this so much it's instinctive. When I switched to PS4, 8 out of 10 times I missed the last f,F+1 move because of the laggier execution. And because of that I'm forced to do:

u/f+4, 1, d/b+4,3, 1, f+2,1 2 which is a move that has less "carrying" property and my opponents can has the additional option of tech rolling to the left or right and negating my wall-carrying plan. It becomes less incentive for me to do the string that ends with f,F+1 because of the whiffing chances is bigger on input-laggier PS4, and forces me to play "averagely". Nothing wrong with playing "averagely" but from this own example, I've been inadvertently handicapped when I know I can do better on less input-laggier platform. It's the same notion JDCR is alluding to, he can do so much more and so much better than what he's doing right now on PS4, it's frustrating to him. Arcade version of Tekken 7, the Fated Retribution, has none of these input lags, and guess what platform that arcade version is based and running on? PC. Before T7 comes to the home platform, these pro players practice the shit out of these arcade cabinet machines and having to suddenly compensate to PS4's artificial input-lagginess is jarring to say the least, and forces playstyle-change that these pro players have developed throughout the two years they've been playing on the arcade cabinet version.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 1 2017, 10:44 PM

The playing field is leveled because everyone have 8 frames input delay, but the PLAYING STYLE changes drastically since input lag forces you to risk less and play like a defensive turtle at higher levels

I don't mind losing as well AS LONG AS it's my fault, not because of the lag, whether it's input lag or online lag. When that happens it's no longer a fair and level playing field, players who chooses characters that has moves coming out faster like Xiaoyu has a better chance of landing hits and less chances of getting punished if her attack whiffs.

PC has less players, I agree on that. But player quality is better than PS4. The example I used with using the same King on both platforms PC and PS4 shows that. I can easily rise up to Mentor in one night in PS4 than in PC, which took 3 days. Because there's more players willing to accept playing someone else at lower rank in PS4 than in PC and there's more players in PS4 than in PC.

Some might argue (myself included) that rank isn't important. I agree on that, to a certain extent. But looking at how online play works, even though you selected in the settings that you accept matchmaking at all ranks, it is still up to the other guy to accept a match with you or not. And more often than not, lots of higher level players dodge or refuse playing lower ranked players simply because it's not worth their time, or they run the risk of dropping their own rank if they lose (this most probably due to them rising to that rank using cheesy spams and not actual skill). That's why people are chasing rank these days, just to avoid these players dodging you based on ranks. Which is why there are desperate cries to Bamco to remove player rank and character names from matchmaking. That way, these dodging players are forced to play them regardless of rank. No more dodging. Even better way to do this is temove matchmaking altogether, make it free-far-all: a lower level ranked Jin who have been playing offline versus with his high-ranked friends offline will still appear as "Beginner" Jin but his skills are way beyond "beginner" rank even though it reads as "beginner" in online rank, simply because he never bothered playing online before, only offline versus.

I've stopped playing with my King at Expert, simply because too many people dodging match requests they're only willing to play those at their own similar ranks. Blue rank is simply a stepping stone to what's supposedly perceived as the more "skilled" rank tier, but often I've met players in the higher Yellow or Red rank resort to cheesy spammy moves and if that's how they got to this higher Yellow or Red ranks, he doesn't deserve it. I've met plenty of Akumas online who all they do are sweeps and fireballs. Tekken isn't about zoning at long distance, it's a close up face-to-face combat.

Horrible play today. Had the game entirely seizing and freezing the laptop I'm using to play the game on, plus playing online with mobile broadband as internet source isn't exactly ideal either. Hit with my third penalty for not finishing a match, even though it's the game itself locking up on me. The more this happens the more unlikely I'll be risking my King for a demotion or worse.

Gonna play Heihachi, Xiaoyu and Lucky Chloe from now on. All these problems with the game isn't worth playing my proper main character in.

The only good part about story mode is the Tekken 4 Dojo scene. Instead of just watching the FMV intro, you get to play it.

Coming August 2017. As part of Tekken 7 DLC.

Tekken Bowl.



This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 17 2017, 06:31 AM

A more visual, rudimentary look at how bad the input lag is on PS4 versus PC.

Long hinted and rumored, Geese Howard of Fatal Fury enters Tekken 7.

The closest match on such a huge international stage like EVO2017. JDCR was nearly defeated (sending him to Losers Final), and won with just a magic pixel on his life meter. JeondDing nearly pulled an upset on the world champion.



IMO the best match on Tekken 7 at EVO2017.

Also, his unusual rise to Top 8, using Lucky Chloe and Eddy Gordo.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 17 2017, 08:28 AM

Ordered this two days back: eTokki Omni Korean Edition. Previous edition uses the Myoungshin lever, but the new iteration uses Taeyoung lever, that was reportedly used stiffer rubber grommets as its movement mechanism restrictor. Had a chat with Matt of eTokki and was assured that this issue was brought to their attention earlier and they've already changed the stuff rubber grommets with softer ones mimicking the Myoungshin lever. Reason why this is important is because stiffer grommets makes executing diagonal moves a hit or miss.

With that said, should I grow accustomed to this Korean stick, I do have these three sticks for sale. Budding fighting enthusiast may wanna take a look as I'm letting these go cheap.......except the exceptional SFV TES2+ stick.

I'm happy to take your price quote in PM if you like.

Wasn't buying the Omni to emulate JDCR or any of the Koreans, I feel that I've met a wall using Sanwa sticks all this while. Either that, or I've been holding, using, and executing moves on the current Sanwa sticks wrong. Hence why I'd like to see if the eTokki Omni is the stick for me.

You'd ask why the Omni? Or any Korean sticks with Crown levers for that matter. It's because Korean sticks don't use gates. Wanna see how that feels in execution compared to the gated sticks. It's supposed to be easier to execute circular movements (QCF, HCF, EWGF) using the Omni, compared to the Sanwa sticks. Korean sticks also springs back to dead center faster/quicker than Sanwa sticks, hence making moves like forward and back dash, or in Tekken 7's case, the KBD move, supposedly much easier to execute. another important reason why Korean sticks are much favored in Tekken is that because the lever springs back to dead center neutral so fast compared to Sanwa Japanese levers, this makes sidestepping into the foreground and background much more effective and quicker to execute. If you've been watching Evo2017 Top 8 matches, besides the forward and back quick dashes (to make opponent whiff their moves), the more effective way to make your opponent whiff is by sidestepping. JDCR especially with his Dragunov and Heihachi uses lots of sidestep manouvers to entice their opponents to make a move towards them, sidestep those moves, and punish those whiffed moves accordingly.



The Omni goes for 200 dollars excluding shipping. It's minimalistic in looks (no tournament-style graphics, overlays or colors), but built like a tank. The whole chassis is solid metal and significantly heavier than any Japanese/American sticks from Hori or Madcatz.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 18 2017, 04:41 PM