Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market V6, Signs are already there in Malaysia

views
     
SUSAllnGap
post May 4 2014, 07:26 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(tikaram @ May 3 2014, 10:51 PM)
The major problem is the high debts in society mean more money pay to bank monthly rather spend like buy banana which generate higher GDP when i grow more banana thumbup.gif

high GDP good or low GDP good?
*
it is not GDP high or low is good.

is what the GDP numbers are used for.

example is lets say the GDP numbers are from foreign investor opening factories or high end industries providing high income jobs.

well our country is flooding our market with low level workers like bangala a lot.

and if the GDP is fueled by massive credit expansion, it wont last for long.
you are lending to expand, and have to repay back + interest
SUSAllnGap
post May 4 2014, 07:40 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(cherroy @ May 4 2014, 07:23 AM)
Recall generally unlikely for good debt.

The reason, bank is looking for trouble itself, if they did.

Imagine bank sudden recall the car loan, housing loan, how many borrower out there can repay or increase collateral at anytime?
If they have the money to repay at anytime, they don't need to borrow in the first place.

So by doing so (recall and margin call), bank is looking for trouble for NPL, which hurt itself by doing so.
No win party.

If borrower willing to pay on time for any underwater loan, bank is happy to see the prompt monthly repayment instead for forcing borrow to repay or increase collateral.

Eg.
A borrow make a car loan 100K, repayment a few K each month, who is in the right mind to recall the loan?
Forcing borrower to repay anytime?
Increase collateral?

Highly bank need to tow tons of car out there. Banks want money, or make money with interest from loan, they do not interested on cars.

Same with property
if the property bought 500K, now valuation plunge to 300K
Forcing borrower to repay? Borrower mostly has no instant money to repay or any collateral, so if doing so, bank needs to foreclose it.
Wait, foreclose it, bank will be hit by 200K loss.
While borrower has prompt payment that for 500k, that bank doesn't need to hit by 200K loss and stuck with a property.
Same with car, banks do not interested in property at all, they want money, interest money, not property, be it worth or not worth.

As a banker, which one you choose?

Mostly term loan, car loan, property loan, that every month you need to make payment one, banks generally willing to see prompt repayment instead forcing suddenly repayment or sudden forcing borrower to increase collateral. 

One is loss-loss situation (forcing repayment, forcing increase collateral in a prompt repayment loan)
One is win-win situation.

So the reason is obvious, although margin call, increase collateral, cut back credit limit etc issue may happen again,
generally they may enforce it on the loan they already see as dubious aka borrower has showed sign unable to repay, even as mentioned from above post as term NPL.
*
in the US case, actually the shiat is still happening , it's a corruption at the highest level actually

read this article below
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/30/...EA3T0N020140430


US has a state owned housing mortgage company called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
During the subprime thing, all of the bad debts from other banks were sold to the state owned company at the old face value (mortgage loan price, not the current housing market price).

so those big banks look clean from the outside because all the bad loans were forced down the throat of the state owned companies.

when the banks win, they win all. When they lose, they transfer the losses into government's pocket.



This post has been edited by AllnGap: May 4 2014, 07:42 AM
SUSAllnGap
post May 4 2014, 07:51 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



•Price to Rent Ratio (or Yield)
•Relative Prices
•Affordability
•Price of new builds


All these above are only accurate of how bubbles are formed, but not accurate in the sense of how it can maintain.

most important factor is

1. INTEREST RATE
2. EASY LOAN REQUIREMENTS

GOOD TIMES = LOW INTEREST RATE x EASY LOAN REQUIREMENTS
= very big amount of loans released ( Malaysia is RM 100 bil per year )

amount of loans China increased since 2008 is about USD 13,000 Billion.

that is how growth is generated.

SUSAllnGap
post May 15 2014, 08:11 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(andrewcha @ May 15 2014, 06:17 PM)
ekcelli i don't mind with sub market, for me is to own one and experience first how to get a prop. then learn from there. i do believe now is kinda good opportunity as bnm getting tighter on rules = lesser competitors. i do know that i didn't do any homework e.g. survey before commit as need to prepare my documents and first DP. I wish to earn some passive income that's all. not much.
oic.
*
bro, u got cash then keep cash, wait for cheap sale, and can bargain when the moment comes in.


SUSAllnGap
post May 16 2014, 08:52 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(Showtime747 @ May 16 2014, 06:41 AM)
I used to think like you. But I was dead wrong  doh.gif

2007-08 USA Sub-prime crisis - the whole world were affected because the US not only sneezed, they got cancer !! Malaysia can't be spared surely. Bubble sure pop this time

2008 - Iceland financial crisis, the beginning of Euro crisis. Whole of Europe very much affected - Europe has sneezed, surely Malaysia will be catch flu. Bubble sure pop this time

2009-2012 Euro crisis. Now it is time Euro got cancer. With USA still in ICU, Malaysia sure die. True enough, Ireland, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, one by one got cancer. And their economy collapsed some even considered bankrupt. They suffered until these days. How can malaysia escape ? Our economy sure kena kaw kaw. Bubble sure pop this time

2013 - Fed's talk about tapering. The whole world panic !! This time sure is "THIS IS IT !!". And SEE !! In October the first tapering started, many countries' currency affected. India, Indo, South Africa, Australia, Brazil, Russia, China and Malaysia. Come liao....finally come liao....Bubble sure pop this time

2014 - currencies stabilised. USA recovers. Euro recovers. Now its China's turn to have crisis. Bubble sure pop this time 
In all of the world crisis malaysia experienced, we faced high winds and tidal waves. Every time new crisis hit the world, I was thinking "THIS IS IT !!" or "BEGINNING OF THE END", or "GROUND ZERO OF WORLD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE". But every time since 2007, nothing much happened to us. But every time, "bubble sure pop this time" will come to mind

When you are a doomsayer, you will always be a doomsayer. Whatever you see and hear, your thoughts will relate it to crisis. And every time these doomsayer misses the boat, yet again
*
our household debt increased from 2008 onwards, at a staggering pace of RM 100 bil per year.
how long can you "overdraft" future money to spend now ?


SUSAllnGap
post May 16 2014, 11:55 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(Anon_1986 @ May 16 2014, 11:45 AM)
Actually you guys, both bulls and bears, need to think deeper. It's not as simple as it appears from a layperson's point of view.

When there is a crisis in the west, there is a 'flight to quality'. This means liquidity flows out from the affected nations, seeking assets in safer or more high yielding nations. That their citizens and institutions in the West still have tonnes of money, but they simply do not have the confidence to invest their money in their own assets and businesses, and spend it on goods and services in their own country.

When their central banks start to print money in bulk in order to stimulate local spending and investment, even more money flies out, seeking quality and yields. The excess money flowing out of their countries starts a currency war, pushing down interest rates across the globe, making debt cheap and attractive everywhere, even in countries where the economy was still healthy.

So where are these safe places for money to hide? Examples are the "global cities" like NY, London, Paris, etc which were not just unaffected by their domestic crises, and kept rising like nobody's business.

When credit is cheap and easily accessible, any asset whose price is determined by access to credit has a tendency to rise. Asset inflation is an unwanted but acknowledged side effect of monetary easing.

This is why you see property booming in not just Malaysia. You see it booming in India, Indonesia, NY, London, Paris, Australia, Canada, Thailand, South Africa, Brazil, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc etc etc... countries which have little in common when it comes to domestic factors.

China during this period was at the brink of a slowdown, and threw in trillions of Yuan in fiscal stimulus in 2008-2009, jumpstarting the global economy again by creating a lot of artificial demand for commodities. This meant that commodity suppliers like Malaysia were not as badly hit as it should have been. Our two largest trading partners are China, and Singapore who is an even larger recipient of foreign hot money.

A healthy, growing economy is supposed to have high interest rates. However, the presence of global monetary easing and an meant that we had stimulus level interest rates 'forced' upon us, even when our domestic economy was by no means weak thanks to Chinese stimulus.

US tapering was supposed to be the start of the reversal of this trend, but many people overreacted. Tapering is not the withdrawing of the printed money. It was simply the slowing down of the printing of money. The US is still printing tens of billions every month, and will do so until the end of 2014. We don't even know if the US will start withdrawing the money then, and when it will allow interest rates to rise.

At the same time, the end of US money printing coincided with the end of the EU austerity, which would be replaced by EU monetary easing, and also the sudden introduction of Japanese Abenomics. Hence, to a great extent the supply of global liquidity is still kept up by trillions being produced by Japan and the EU.

Now if you told me back in 2008 that you could have predicted that monetary easing by the US would end in 2014 and not 2010, I would call you a genius. If you could have told me that the EU would switch tact from austerity to monetary easing, I would call you a genius. If you could have predicted that Shinzo Abe would start monetary easing as well in 2013, I would also call you a genius.

Everyone else is simply just lucky that things turned out this way.  smile.gif
*
if najib dint use our bullets, yes i would agree the price would still go up.
all the big countries are using a lot of steroids.
after 2008 we dint collapse because of China. and we ourselves used a lot of steroids too.
and we are running of steroid shots already.
household debts very high, country debt high, corporate loan high.
Businesses arent doing good. inflation is running wild, cost of living increasing.

just the matter of when it will happen
SUSAllnGap
post May 16 2014, 12:05 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(zuiko407 @ May 16 2014, 12:02 PM)
Won't drop la
*
ya wont drop if u can hold it.

ah long will wait for you to fail.....they will say like this

so brader, wanna let go or not ar ?
sell me cheap cheap i buy la....

if not bank lelong u go bankrupt and lose everything smile.gif
SUSAllnGap
post May 16 2014, 12:11 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(zuiko407 @ May 16 2014, 12:08 PM)
Won't happen la
Flora damansara got cheap stuff
*
LOL. my friend agent got one ah long buyer.

always looking for cheap deals one. below market price he always welcome.....

nvm, got a lot of friendly ah long in malaysia laugh.gif
SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 07:28 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(Showtime747 @ May 19 2014, 02:52 PM)
We were actually talking about why bank willing to give 10x margin for property loan whereas only 3x margin for stock market loan. Any comments on why is that so ?
*
depends on the government policies.
during the 1997 u can easily get bank loans for share markets.
and now it's for housing.

do u think BNM is independent body ? think again. BNM is under government control in some sense. so if government wants to stimulate economy via housing boom, BNM will align their policies to that
SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 07:32 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-18/c...curbs-ease.html

read the news la. developers themselves are offering discounts to offload their housing stocks.

corporate loan interest rate is tightening and interest has doubled d. so developers are scrambling for cash.
SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 03:21 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(bearbearwong @ May 20 2014, 10:54 AM)
wow.. developers now also affected... subsales market ready ya discount mei?
*
it's the credit tightening.
credit tightening everything related to loan sure kena one.
china corporate loan interest already doubled and new loans are very hard to obtain, so developer need to dispose to raise cash.

human are motivated by fear and greed.
When greedy they throw everything they have because thinking "sure win"
when fearful, take back everything because "sure lose"

and one thing about our developer is that they themselves are very greedy as they sell into the future price.
When launch the property, the price already reflect the 2017 price, so in this market i list down who's trying to profit from it

1. developer
2. flipper
3. agent
4. then finally true house buyer.

every 3 years increase 100% ?? whistling.gif

SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 03:36 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(Minolta @ May 20 2014, 03:27 PM)
Edi May lah. Still tokking about bubble and price drop? U all not sien meh? Only same people tokking all the time only.

Where got price drop? Pants drop i see got lah.
*
then buy more please. hold more properties please, nobody is stopping u from buying nod.gif

u dont have enough cash ??
nvm, i got agents contact can kawtim and give u cash from personal loan.
SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 03:44 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(bearbearwong @ May 20 2014, 03:30 PM)
developers knows that, some forumers choose to say developers margin of profit is the lowest below 20%... it is impossible to sell future price, and hoping that you can sell another future price to others...

hold more properties, banks will be laughing , developers will built more, your new properties will become old once new properties are launched every week in klang valley itself..
*
ya on paper is 20%. Cuz developer open a lot of side business that not profitable like open sports car centre, open beauty saloon for 1st wife, outside wife and outside gf. laugh.gif

i wish this thing can go up forever, but i cant convince myself to do so.

If the price steadily increase 5% per year, then yes, the price can climb steadily for a long time.
but the price increase is too much per year.

and Thailand just declared martial law and China just sent military to Vietnam border.
Any chance those seperatist from Thailand comes and bomb KL i see how.
SUSAllnGap
post May 20 2014, 04:03 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(UFO-ET @ May 20 2014, 03:57 PM)
You miss out the main culprit - "BANK"
*
oh ya i forgot to add in, the evaluator that helps house owner to overdraft for renovation.
SUSAllnGap
post May 30 2014, 04:45 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-29/c...or-get-one-free

In China, developer sells property by, buy one floor, get one free. rolleyes.gif
SUSAllnGap
post May 31 2014, 07:18 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(HuiChyr @ May 31 2014, 02:31 AM)
Cherroy,
Pls PM me this method of shorting.
I'm interested. TQ
*
during the previous crisis, German PM banned short-selling.

YES government can ban short selling anytime they want laugh.gif
SUSAllnGap
post May 31 2014, 07:24 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-30/h...mply-ignores-it

even the BBB camp wants to buy it cheap, and u know la how chinese will bargain....can give cheaper ?

SUSAllnGap
post May 31 2014, 08:45 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(bearbearwong @ May 31 2014, 08:26 AM)
they will still need to target Malaysians to hit their expected profit.. just wondering, will Malaysian potential house buyers do better with these ppl in d market.. be minded of restriction of RM1 million on foreingners, they come in property price will surely fly to million plus as they can only purchase 1 million above for now.. expected profits will be 1.3  million at least..

how is the market currently catering median prices of at least 500k above property? dead? now 1 million above? gotta think harder
*
China has started tightening.
those rich folks will become ah long and earn more money and even earn faster than houses which are in decline.

when chinese realized that the house price cannot go up, they will become ahlong and sapu all those weak buyers that cannot service their loans.

why bother wanna earn 5-10% per year when u can earn 5% per month by becoming ah long laugh.gif
their objective is to make money not hug their house to death rolleyes.gif
SUSAllnGap
post May 31 2014, 08:57 AM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(Showtime747 @ May 31 2014, 08:46 AM)
thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif

USA collapse, Euro Collapse, China collapse, gold collapse, so "logically" malaysia should collapse. This is how a economist pass his  exam  doh.gif
*
You asked the wrong question.

Why malaysia wont be affected ??


1. is malaysia running on surplus or deficit ?
Answer : deficit of 550Bil

2. How is malaysia's corporate debt and household debt standing ?
Answer : both about 80 + %

3. Is malaysia's exports improving ?
Answer : stuck

4. Has economy changed ??
Answer : No. We import more low skill workers
Singapore is turning into metals trading hub, medical research hub, Financial hub, Money Laundering hub..etc..

5. What is coming ?
a. MYR value dropped
b. rising cost of living, inflation
c. GST
d. serious deficit, means government has to collect back more tax
e. rise of extremism which is not business friendly

from those above how can income increase ?? whistling.gif






Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0757sec    0.44    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 21st December 2025 - 11:07 PM