Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
34 Pages « < 27 28 29 30 31 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

views
     
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 04:47 PM)
Theres no contradiction.

Even faith requires an act. But that does not negate God's gift, does it? 

In any case, the point about not requiring to confess our sin because its God's grace (this doctrine called radical grace)anyway is not supported by scriptures.
*
Yes you're right that does not negate God's gift because it's gift, something you didn't earn. In the book of James Faith without works is dead is referring to working or helping each other. Not just empty words.

You need to understand something. That is not radical Grace. I never said no repentance is involved.

You need to divide what is repentance for the believer and what is repentance for the unbeliever. BTW repentance is change of mind, metanoia.

For the unbeliever, yes you need to admit you're a sinner. But if you are already a believer, your repentance is to know Jesus save you and God is for you.
You need to be repented in the mind for this everyday. Because we are transformed by the renewal of our mind, and we are changed by beholding God's glory.
Our repentance is to look towards God in this sense.

In addition, if you say believers still need to keep on confessing sins, then you are in essence also saying
Jesus did not remove our sins completely. He did't finish his work on the cross. His work is just temporal because there are still sins in our life.
Can you negate this truth?





TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 04:58 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 21 2014, 04:51 PM)
He knows, I know and I guess anyone who can discerns knows.
All I can say is. This is almost reaching "blespheming the holy spirit" level.
*
?????? rclxub.gif

He knows
I knows
Everyone knows



In the end it's all merely speculation.

Tell me you're not trolling. I almost burst out laughing.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:01 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 21 2014, 04:47 PM)
Well, if say God is your father.
Are you saying it's possible that God will abaddon you?

Even your earthly father will not do that.
*
And that my friend, is the beauty of God's grace.

yes you are 100% completely right in this. thumbup.gif

God will never abandon you.

That is why my urge to those Christians out there reading this, even a small glimmer of faith, no matter how small,

God will use that to rescue you!
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:16 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:05 PM)
Do you know why James said that?
That faith without works is dead faith?  Because for the Jewish thinking, faith and works go hand in hand. Faith without works is abit oxymoronic to a Jew.

You did mention before that one does not need to keep on confessing because of God's grace or to that effect.
Strangely that post and my reply to that is gone/deleted.

No...confessing continually does not mean Jesus did not remove our sins completely.
It is in response to a HOLY God and acknowledgement that we are sinful before Him. OTOH it makes us more appreciative of what Jesus has done on the cross
for us. We are indeed still sinful creatures irrespective of what Jesus has done. It does not negate His eternal work.

OTOH not confessing our sins brings dishonor to His work on the cross, thus radical grace.This is consistent with what John wrote

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
*
Confession "sins" despite the fact that Jesus already removed it, brings dishonor to his work, not the other way round.

it's the same as saying God you did not remove my sins, it still there.



Verse 7, If We walk IN the Light. That means you agree with God that you are IN the Light of already being cleansed and hence no more darkness. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL SINS.

This word cleanses is present continuously.

Question. If all sins is cleansed, where is there left?

verse 8 and 9 and 10 is pertaining to before conversion. If you say it also applies to even after conversion, then what is the cleansing effect of Christ blood? Zero. Christ need to die again.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:20 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 21 2014, 05:12 PM)
Unfortunately in my theology,
God is not the father of everyone.
*
He wants to be the father of everyone. That is his heart.

If anyone does not reject him, God the Father will come in.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:30 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:21 PM)
Hello

John's letter was to BELIEVERS
*
Yes correct.

He is addressing Believers.

Before I accept Christ, I am a sinner. if you claim to be without, you deceive yourself (ver 8, 9 & 10)

After accepting Christ, continue walking in that light that Christ has cleansed you of.
And God will keep you continuously cleansed. (ver 7)

If you say you are already cleansed and still say you are in darkness, then you contradict what God say and you are lying and do not live out the truth. (ver 6)

That is what it means.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 21 2014, 05:34 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:42 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:35 PM)
you are reading INTO the passages.

John is writing to believers. He didnt qualify that passage by saying 'before you knew Christ'.

Vs 8 to 10 suggests that we still sin and therefore to confess.
*
No Read and understand the passage carefully.

If you say we still have sin, despite the Fact that Christ died for our sins, you also admit Christ work is not complete because there is still sin. (ver 6)

You are lying and do not live out the truth. That is what it means.

Ver 8 says, If we claim to be without......it didn't say if we claim we didn't. There a difference.

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:45 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:35 PM)
1 John 2

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Does this sound like he is writing to believers?

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
*
Correct, even if you do sin, God will not see it. Why? Because in the verse;


we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

He is = present tense, Always is, 24/7. Eternal.

Who is the one advocating? Jesus, not you.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:47 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:35 PM)
Does this sound like he is writing to believers?

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
*
Correct, so that believers today know, that our confession is towards God, that He has cleansed us of all unrighteousness.

Key word. Righteous. Whose righteousness? Yours or God's Gift?

I rest my case.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 05:48 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
See you guys tonight. to be continue.....


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 07:42 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:50 PM)
GOd will NOT see sin?????
"Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love." (Revelation 2:4)
How could Jesus see that they had left their first love if He could only see them as perfect in Christ?
Indeed Christ is atoning sacrifice. This is a positional matter. However, one needs to repent to receive forgiveness and atonement.
As James indicated faith without works is dead.
*
Yes.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

That is the truth. Why? Because Jesus is our atonement. As long as Jesus is our High Priest, our position in Righteousness does not change.

I keep telling you, repentance is change of mind towards God, that He is for us, not against us. Until you see and understand that, your repentance will not bear fruit.

And the Bible says We reign when we keep on receiving God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness.

People can keep on confessing sin until they're are blue in the face, cry at the altar and still will remain the same, unchanged. You know this the reality in Church.




QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 05:53 PM)
Exactly! The passage was to believers including

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Unless John qualifies that these verses were to unbelievers, we have to be consistent in the continuity of the passages was to believers who are subject to the 3 verses.
*
If Jesus Christ has cleansed the believer of all unrighteousness and sin, what does that makes him? Still a sinner?

Try and answer me on that.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 07:50 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Oct 21 2014, 06:24 PM)
just wanna ask, so do u have a habit of confessing ur sins tat u have committed, lets say in the past 10 days, the nxt time u pray?  hmm.gif

or do u feel thr is no longer a need for cleansing for sins committed after u r saved, frm here on til u meet ur Maker?  unsure.gif 

b'cos sometimes, whn i go in prayer, the HS convicts on certain events or deeds, be it little or big.

examples can be:  1) u shouldn't have shouted rudely at ur boss 2 days ago
                           2) showing ur middle finger on the highway out of anger 3 days ago was wrong
*
No I don't practise that sort of habit because I believe Christ atonement is not temporal.

What I do is confessing and thanking God for sending his son to die for me and by his work, his obedience is complete and perfect and has made me righteous.

If I confess that I'm righteous on my own, that's a lie and deceit. But In Christ, that judicial atonement because only Christ qualify as a saviour, not me.

I can't save myself. This is the point that Mr Jul and most Church missed it.

When our eyes is on our Lord Jesus, there is power to change, but if we are always introspective of ourselves, being self occupied, you will naturally fall into the realm of the flesh and that is why Christians keep on sinning because their focus is on self rather than on Christ.

Same Concept that happened to peter when he walked on the water, his eyes was on our Lord and He became supernatural. But the moment he took his eyes of our Lord because of the boisterous wind and the waves, He began to sank. In regards to this, I keep my eyes on our Lord Jesus all the time.

And I can testify that has change me far better than the "repentance" towards God's Law.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 21 2014, 08:11 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 07:59 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(ngaisteve1 @ Oct 21 2014, 07:41 PM)
yeah those spiritual gift are gone. but then since this topic is denomination dependent and thread is denomination neutral, I guess it is better not to refute too much here. refute face to face better and more effective imo
*
How do you explain this then?

John 14:12 - Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 08:08 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
PehKay, where do you get that from?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 08:22 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
Some of The earlier denomination actually believe speaking in tongues is of the devil.

Don't tell me pehkay..............
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 08:29 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(pehkay @ Oct 21 2014, 08:22 PM)
The indulgence in lust?

Lol .... I mentioned "may" because the incident has happens in the history of Pentecostal. The real experience of tongue speaking do get people into ecstasy.

At least I need to balance it out to say that some have testified that speaking in tongues stirred something within them to seek after Christ. This is a proper result of tongue-speaking.

But those who become addicted to tongue-speaking care only for their ecstasy. They do not care for sobriety. As a result, there are many cases of fornication among them.

There was a big case in the past in China, where a group of people practices this till they declared that they is no longer male or female. They began to dwell together, which eventually, lead to fornication.

Biblically, I think it was Saul.

"He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel’s presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

When the Spirit in the Old Testament poured on fallen flesh, there is this kind of experience.

So, those who practice this, need to realize their fallen flesh is still as active as ever.
*
I think it really depends on the purpose why you want to speak in tongues.

It's no point to go babbling without proper understanding. I think we shouldn't do it for the sheer ecstasy,
never actually heard of that even.

Speaking in tongues is speaking to God and to God alone.


That is why the Apostle Paul spoke a lot in tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:18 - I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 08:57 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
Actually Speaking in tongues is a given gift really.

I don't see how it actually relates to what was said about lust and not pursuing towards Christ?


1 Corinthians 14:2 - For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

What is the purpose?

1 Corinthians 14:4
Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.


Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 21 2014, 08:59 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 09:07 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(ngaisteve1 @ Oct 21 2014, 08:55 PM)
just to clarify, speak in tongue = speak in different language right? ie I speak Cantonese. but when I pray, I pray in English. so can I say I pray in tongue (different language)?
*
As the Spirit enables. Can in languages can be utterance of wordless groans.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 09:27 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(pehkay @ Oct 21 2014, 09:16 PM)
True. This is why today's tongue speaking is generally not genuine. The real one brings you to be beside yourself (acts 2 - disciples were perceived to be drunk)

It is only perhaps useful for private experience. But, corporately, it is not very profitable. Also, if the goal is not Christ and the church, it is very damaging.

Anyway, that's enough of this from me.
*
I think the Bible is quite clear, speaking in tongues is never for another believers, but between himself and God.
Even in a corporate prayer when everyone prays in tongues it's still between that person and God, not as a corporate whole.

Why I find praying in tongues important because sometime we can pray wrong prayers in our natural language.
We can also pray selfish prayer. But when we pray in tongues, it is God's spirit who pray through our mouth and
The Holy Spirit always know what is the best prayer.

I find that reason alone more edifying more than anything. Shalom Bro.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 21 2014, 09:52 PM

/k/ Legend
*******
Senior Member
6,240 posts

Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 09:40 PM)
When are you reconciled to God?  When you repent.  Therefore when you have repented, God remembers your sin no more.

Howevre when you said
There is a major difference..how come Jesus saw the sin of the the church of Ephesus?
Since they were saved before and in your thinking that God does NOT see sin of the redeemed. YET Jesus call their SIN.
i rest my case
*
Repentance from what when you are cleansed of all unrighteousness by Christ?
Read my sentence carefully.


QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2014, 09:40 PM)
What make a sinner, a sinner?

SIN
*
That's not my question. Listen again.

If Jesus Christ has cleansed the believer of all unrighteousness and sin, what does that makes him? Still a sinner?





34 Pages « < 27 28 29 30 31 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0770sec    0.90    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 1st December 2025 - 02:17 AM