Over Emphasize? Bro, We need abundance of Grace for reigning in this life. The word Reigning is synonym with victory.
We need more of it, not less of it.

Romans 5:17 - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Godly Repentance come only through the power of the Holy Spirit. Man cannot change himself. He has no such power.

Fleshly repentance are nothing but the works of Man. He can shout and tells himself to repent 10x but He cannot.

The Holy Spirit only comes in when you agree with his word such as Romans 5:17 as above.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 26 2014, 08:38 PM

No Problem.

All in context bro.

Only when you understand chapter 5 then you move on to chapter 6.
You don't enforce chapter 6 without accepting chapter 5.

The key is in here

10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Only when you understand these 2 verse what it means once and for all and in the same way...then only you move to verse 12 which starts with a "therefore" which means verse 10 & 11 is the criteria and it has to do with the Grace of God which is the concluding summary in verse 14.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 26 2014, 09:45 PM

Well you said, over emphasizing on grace.
The Bible says we need abundance of grace.

Abundance is abundance, how do you want to call it?

Well if you agree that repentance comes from God then what I said about repentance being convicted by the Holy Spirit is correct.

Honesty less than an Atheist?
Come to think of it, I don't think I've switch topic to avoid answering you. In fact I did answer you but you seem to be offended everytime.
Tell me which part is not answered? Point 2 or 3 of your questions and I'll prove to you, I was replying in kind, just that you may not understand what I mean.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 27 2014, 02:37 PM

When you say that the Bible did not say we need abundance of grace, it means we are in grace that is not true. You have to receive Grace first in order to be IN Grace. That is the meaning in chapter 5. Look at the verse again.

Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Do you see the word, "how much more"? It would suffice to say, Those who receive, but yet the word there how much more means it is more (extra) for those who receive the abundance. Do you see bold part? "those who receive" which means the flip side is also true, there can be, those who don't.

Chapter 6 is the proceeding, taking one step further explaining, that Christ died to Sin once and for all and in Chapter 6, God tells us, IN THE SAME MANNER like Christ consider that you're dead to Sin once and for all too. In the Greek the word there, in the same manner is like an accounting equation, IN THE EXACT EQUATION. How Christ died to sin, you too consider the same. Question. What is the meaning died to Sin once and for all? The answer is found in Romans 6:10 - The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

The Key word here is once and for all, When Christ died, God absolved all judgement against Sin in his body and there is no more judgement. this is the meaning, once and for all. If there still is judgement, Christ cannot be resurrected back to life because the penalty of sin has not been dealt with completely. So in the same manner we are to consider there is no more judgement of sin as believers, therefore don't let sin rule our lives because it has been dealt with.


So does every Christians definition. God forgiveness is God's grace and love. We all know that.
I don't see what is the difference, the blessings of Heaven comes from our Heavenly Father who is God. So Heavens blessings is God's Blessing.
Why are you trying to confuse the same thing here?

Prosperity Gospel is blasphemy? Prosperity is not the Gospel, but God loves to prosper his people. And I need to stop you before you put this word into my mouth, No it's only about money, since you did mention prosperity Gospel, I'm familiar with the term. God's prosperity encompasses everything.

When Jesus multiplied 5 loaves and 2 fishes, He gave more than they could eat, 12 basketful EXTRA to me that is prosperity. When Jesus motion for peter to throw his net at the right side of the boat, He caught so much fishes, the net broke. To me that is God prospering Peter. When God blessed Abraham or Solomon, He gave them so much wealth, they were rich, again to me, that is God prospering his people. Still not convinced?

Deuteronomy 8:18
But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors, as it is today. (see the word today?)

Psalm 35:27 (KJV) - Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Proverbs 10:22 (KJV) - The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.

And about tithing. God is the one who promise to bless us when we tithe. You have problem with that, you can take it up with God. Why complain to me? Hmm?

Malachi 3:10 - Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.


So your gripe is about this? Now I understand what you're so upset about. Geez, can't you just say it straight away?
I thought, You're the one who said this about repentance below? How do you want people to understand you when you keep on emphasising like it isn't right to repent when only convicted by the Holy Spirit? What are trying to imply? Keep on repenting on your own accord? Isn't this is what you said below? For one moment you said something like below and the in the next post, you agreed that repentance only comes from God. Are you trying to confuse me or what?

If I did not switch topic, I didn't switch topic. No need to say it's not relevant. It is relevant. The problem is, you only look at one side of the argument, I'm showing you the bigger picture. For example, you said about is it possible for an unrepentant homosexual to be a believer at the same time. I answered in a way to let you know, unless you allow that homosexual to accept God, He has no power to change himself. It is still talking about repentance it is still talking about Salvation of that person and if you understood, you would have known the way I answer you means Yes He can. Was it really difficult to comprehend by the way I teach hmmm?


Our Gospel is the same. It's just that maybe you don't believe God is more Gracious and more loving than you see him to be. Can be seen when you think Grace is over emphasize. No I didn't slander you, problem is, you seem to take everything like I have some sort of secret motive when there is none.
You're the one who's creating the hype here, not me.

And here is the hype I'm talking about. How in the world did I led to you believe that I said accept my version, then only you have the Holy Spirit?
You are really amazing.

I understand what you're saying and I agree.

Only I differ in this area. Colossians explains, we are already made complete in Christ, meaning God sees us righteous and Holy even though while our actions are not yet perfected.

Colossians 2:9-10
…9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

The word there "made" means have been, it is not seeming or like.

The one who changes us and Sanctify is done by God alone, our work as Man is just to agree with Him meaning believe.

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 5: 23-24 - 23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.


We are changed by beholding God, meaning to say how much we accept how God sees us and how much we believe in his word, effects our transformation.

2 Corinthians 3:18 - But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Why I don't believe that Sanctification falls on our part because I've come to understand the meaning of strength and weakness based on 2 Corinthians 12:9, Either we do it or let God do it. There's no partiality. Paul explains it like this.

2 Corinthians 12:9 -
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Believe me, I'm on the side of wanting change and sanctification but I believe it only happens as how scripture warrants it.

And these days I am seeing change even on myself when I rest in God, accepting his word that declared I've been made complete in Christ even though my actions is still far from perfect. Before this, I struggled everyday, prayed everyday but problem is I reasoned in the my mind I'm not complete yet, still needed sanctification , when I didn't agree with what God said, that became the problem that resisted change on my side.







This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 28 2014, 02:22 AM

No I didn't said those (bold part).

I would like you to show me where? Go ahead. Quote me.

Read the preceding verse bro,
Unless God is the one who does the strengthening part...you get the idea.

1 Thessalonians 3:11-13

11 Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you. 12 May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you. 13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.



Look at verse 13.



Ephesians 3

14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every familya in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

HIS Power Bro.

The principal is always the same.

Read Hebrews 10 bro.

God always impart his Grace first, then he ask us to Live a Holy Life.

For example

Hebrews 10:10 - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We all know that we are still not perfected yet but here God already declare us Holy once and for all.

Our part is to receive God's grace then walk as He commanded. He does the work, then ONLY we can.

This is the principal.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 28 2014, 01:06 PM

I think I did request (twice) that you show me where did I even said what you claim.

Your refusal to show or perhaps you couldn't find it, now that is amazing indeed.

Because there isn't any.

Prove me wrong. If you say I'm denial then it shouldn't that tough to point it out.

Bro Piros,

I've also showed you the preceding verses that it is not. I am reading scripture. This is not my words.

The Bible is very consistent. God first gives you the grace, sanctify you then there's usually the word "therefore" be holy, avoid sin, yada yada.

Whenever there's a "therefore" in a verse, you read the preceding verses to understand in totality.

Man has no ability to sanctify himself. You know that.

The one who does the sanctification process is God alone, our role is just to walk in it.

The principal is the same in all the books. God says that you have been sanctified, made holy, God working in you, etc etc....THEREFORE do not give in to sin, do not this and that.

We are changed by the renewal of our mind we are not changed by our works whether it's sanctification or whatever.

The renewal of our mind is to consistently agree with God's word that WE ARE ALREADY made Holy And Righteous.

THAT IS THE BATTLE and I can tell you it's not easy.

Remember the verse that says mighty in pulling down strongholds, very imagination....all this is indication of mind renewal processes.

The Bible also made it very very clearly, WE ARE TRANSFORMED by the renewal of our mind. Based on THAT alone, it defeats the idea that we need to do the sanctification work. Our role is to believe and walk in what God has already given us.

Our battle is not with Sin. Jesus already dealt with that. Our Battle is this.

The Righteous shall live by Faith. Meaning We need to live with the right type of believe. Everything hangs on how we believe (Faith). When you have the right type of Faith, the Fruits of the Holy Spirit is the result not works of the Holy Spirit. Fruits. The one who does the pruning, the watering, the feeding is God the Father (Abiding in the vine). The Sanctification is from Him.

Here is another food for thought.

Jesus said. I AM the vine YOU ARE the branch.

It didn't say YOU TRY TO BE the branch or Struggle to be the branch or SANCTIFY yourself to be a branch.

GOD declared YOU ARE the Branch. (Already is). Now either you agree with that or you look it from the point you need to try to be because you know you still have flaws. If you think you need to, then you're reasoning based on what you see of yourself not what the scripture says. This is where most Christians missed it. The Bible says WE ARE Already MADE complete in Christ and yet many time we don't agree because we look at ourselves and our life and say our flaws doesn't match what the Bible say therefore it must mean that we still need to struggle.

You know what is the problem? We keep looking at ourselves WHEN the Bible says to KEEP ON LOOKING TO JESUS as the author and the FINISHER of our Faith.

In of ourselves we have no power to change, no matter how hard you try. Either we let God and God alone do it or we do it. There's no in between. (Romans 11:6)

Last one. Remember you quoted this?

Romans 6:18 - You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

See the early part of the verse " you have been set free" HAVE BEEN. God did that part. He sanctified you "HAVE BEEN". THEN the proceeding verse becomes slaves to righteousness.

All that in the context God is the one who sanctify.

I really pray that the Holy Spirit help you to see this.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 28 2014, 06:48 PM

I don't think you cheated death.

God kept death at bay probably He got your back and He has something in store for you in this life.

The very same thing that people accused Paul of, so IF I'm misunderstood, I guess I stand with Paul as being misunderstood in the context of Romans 6:1. People are afraid that too much Grace will give people license to sin. It's not. Looking at the scripture, evidence for evidence I believe it's consistent.

Romans 6:1 - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

Do you see the similarity, people accuse Paul of the same thing as what you and sylar111 accuse me of.

I agree for Sanctification, not against it only I differ the way about it, how it's done, I based my reasons from digestion of the scripture over time. Only Grace can bring us out of sin. (Romans 6:14) And it works effortlessly by the spirit, none of my strength.

I agree with you in the sense, we want to arrive at the same destination, I am for Holiness, I am for Righteousness. It may look like synergistic Sanctification but perhaps we understand the roles differently.

I am very zealous for the truth as well, along with you and sylar111, don't get me wrong, In fact if you allow me to say it, I think I'm far more zealous than anyone else which is bad really because I tend to step on people's toes

I don't know about you but I see only God who has the power to sanctify, Man has absolutely no power, neither the strength to do it. Our Role is to keep on consistently believe in the word of God that declares us Righteous until the transformation manifest. The Righteous shall live by FAITH not by works.

I know what you explained has been understood as it is in the Church for so many centuries.

I don't want to cause any disharmony to you and or anyone else. Shalom.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 30 2014, 12:41 AM

Li'll Bro, you keep attacking me, I'm trying my best to be patience you know?
You are like trying to provoke me to respond emotionally but I refuse.
Look back at how I post, I don't think I use emotional responses like how you do.
If you want to talk about integrity, be fair and see for yourself.
I think if other people, they would have blasted you left right unmerciful.

Did I make personal remark against you?
I don't use words like slandering, no integrity, like how you use so frequent against me.
When I post, I usually write the wider audience, not so much for you, unless I say it.

People around here already know that but you are rather new here.
Maybe you think you know how the world works but I can definitely say you don't know me enough.

That's why I ask you to point out where I err with you but you refuse.

Sigh.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 30 2014, 10:11 AM

Yeah sure no problem. I kinda like New King James version.

For me I find that the more translation there are, it suppose to give better insight to a particular word.

If unsure, can always check the hebrew and greek n check it up with the concordance, thayer's Greek and Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew.

After all the word of God is alive, can be applied in life situation, any circumstances.

I think the most universal version now is still the NIV, so we can stick with that as the standard.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 30 2014, 11:54 AM

I normally put the translation in bracket.

I kinda lost touch with hillsong, nowadays listening to stuff like this.

whoa Petra. Old Skool Christian Rock.

Enter In was my fav.

Bible Devotions with UW

Purify Yourself




How are you guys? Sorry it's been awhile since I've share anything.
Just want to share something that God spoke to me recently.

I want to bring you to this passage.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Upon first time reading, it sounds like and looks like we are too purify ourselves. But wait a minute, I'm sure many time we have understood the gospel, God washes us and sanctifies us by the blood of his son. (Hebrews 13:12). His son obedience to the Father all the way to the cross has made us righteous. (Romans 5:19), not our obedience, so how is it that this time we are able to purify ourselves? There is a problem here. If we can purify ourselves, it defeats the purpose why Jesus has to come. Think about it.

It was for this main reason, (why) Jesus had to come to be our savior simply because we cannot save ourselves. We can never clean our sins away, no matter what we do hence the meaning purify from everything that contaminates the body and spirit in the context of 2 Corinthians 7:1. God gave us the OT, for about 1500 years, He let us have our way, which is righteousness by works to let us know, we can't. Even the best of the OT, David a Man after God own's heart could not. He Sinned with Bathsheba and few other incidents.


See the problem with this theological believe is that when we believe we are able to purify ourselves it can dangerously turn to works for justification and righteousness. I asked God for an answer and He led me to 1 John 3:3. Praise be our God for his faithfulness and consistency. If you read the whole context of 1 John 3, you will begin to understand it is by Faith you are sanctified made pure in the context of 1 John 3:3 which also apply to all other scripture verse that talks about purify yourself, keep your self, walk in the light, etc.

And to drive the message Home, consider the following scripture verses below, none of it talks about purification by works or of ourselves but always by faith by the blood or by the spirit of God.




God Bless.

p.s: text mostly in NIV unless stated otherwise.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 10 2014, 11:29 AM