Hi, I would like to ask whether there's anything to change or suggest for my choice

Usage: surfing, programming, virtualization, light gaming(cs 1.6)
Budget: RM ~1800
Reused items: hdd, keyboard, mouse, monitor

Planned OS:
1. Windows 8.1
2. Xubuntu 13.10
3. Gentoo

Things that I had in mind that needs suggestion:
1. Mobo(I need vt-d(or amd's amd-v or also known as iommu) support for the hypervisor listed below, but I'm not really sure which works and what not))
2. GPU
3. ATX Casing

Planned peripheral:
1. Cooler(not sure whether this setup is hot or not, should be not but anyway, just something to consider)

Planned to use hypervisor(preferred both - things to be passed - gpu)
1. KVM(or to be more exact, Qemu)
2. VMware

Additional consideration: I am also considering a fx 8320 setup which costs around there also but I'm not particularly sure which build would work better(8 cores vs 4 core + 4 thread)



This post has been edited by wcypierre: Dec 7 2013, 09:56 PM

may as well as top up another 100+ and get e3 1230 v3 with 4 more threads

@op, if your program utilizes a lot of integer based operation then amd would be a good choice.

Here's some unbiased opinion, i5 is usually recommended because it works for most of the cases and it is cheaper than its FX counterpart.

Let's take some components from both companies as a good for comparison(I'm taking the minimum spec for both builds)

Intel Build
Intel i5 4440 @ 574
Asrock H81M-DGS @ 179

Subtotal = RM 753

AMD Build
AMD FX 8320 @ 559
Gigabyte GA-970a-UD3 @ ~380 (can't find it anymore, newegg shows that its 110 USD, so US price + some local charges and taxes should be around RM 380)

Gigabyte GA-970a-UD3 Newegg Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128519

Subtotal = RM 939

Note: All prices are taken from viewnet except for the AMD's motherboard which is from newegg(with an approximation of price according to local market price).

The reason of why the minimum price for the AMD proc is more expensive is because FX8320 has a much higher TDP than all of the haswell series processors, so a better board that can supply and accept a larger amount of power would be needed.

You can look for other supported boards at here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-moth...m-info-database

Difference between Intel and AMD build = RM 186

Advantages of Intel Build
o Cheaper in price
o Lower TDP(Total Power Usage)
o Similar/Better Performance in single threaded applications
o Builtin integrated graphic card

Disdvantages of Intel Build
o Cannot overclock
o Lower clock speed
o Low end motherboard

Advantages of AMD Build
o Better multithreaded performance(provided that the software supports multithreading)
o Can overclock
o Higher clock speed
o Better Motherboard

Disadvantages of AMD Build
o Higher TDP(higher total power consumption)
o Hot(due to the high TDP)
o No integrated graphic card
o Must buy a good board(with at least 8 + 2 power design for 8 core FX series)

However, at this point, you will notice that their price point is not the same(Intel's combination @ 700+ while AMD's combination @ 900+), so let's take some intel components of higher specs to do a side by side comparison(I'm taking the Intel i5 4440 to show the minimum amount of money to build a Intel i5 rig and FX8320 as the minimum spec for a 8 core AMD rig as of now).

Round 2
Intel Build
Intel Xeon 1230 v3 @ 779
Asrock H81M-DGS @ 179

Subtotal = RM 958

AMD Build
Refer above

Difference between Intel and AMD build = RM -19

Advantages of Intel Build
o Lower TDP(Total Power Usage)
o Better Performance in single threaded applications
o Similar performance with AMD's build(dependant on the software architecture)
o Server Grade Processor

Disdvantages of Intel Build
o Cannot overclock
o Lower clock speed
o Slightly more expensive
o Low end motherboard
o No builtin integrated graphic card

Advantages of AMD Build
Disadvantages of AMD Build
Refer above

With a RM19 of price difference, these two build can be considered of the same range in terms of pricing and specs as Xeon 1230v3 has 4 cores 8 threads while FX8320 has 8 cores 8 threads.
Important Point: Think of the Xeon 1230 v3 as a i7 4770, just that it is a little bit slower(3.3 ghz vs 3.4 ghz) + no integrated graphic card

so, now, let's get to the main point.

Why Intel instead of AMD?
Intel's Processor has a higher IPC(Instruction per Clock) which translates to more tasks can be done in within a second in laymen terms(Note: more efficient). Moreover, Intel's processor has a smaller die size which translates to lesser power consumption(Note: less power usage). Third point, most of the software that we use daily are usually single threaded or uses only very minimal number of threads(most applications and games uses only 1 or 2 cores/threads) so Intel's processor having a higher IPC will win because it is faster for normal applications.

Why AMD instead of Intel?
AMD's Processor is generally cheaper than its relative counterpart(however, this is not quite true for Malaysia which makes it not worthwhile). AMD's Processor is fully unlocked, so you can overclock it as you wish. Apart from that, the main point of choosing an AMD Processor is if you're performing a lot of integer based calculations. AMD's Vishera 8 Core(8320, 8350, 9370, 9590) has 8 integer processing unit but only 4 floating point unit so it will be faster when it handles a program that uses a lot of integer operation(similar performance with i7) but slower when it handles a program with a lot of floating point calculation(similar performance withh i5). Hence, depending on what operations that your program uses, the FX series will be on par/better/worse than the i7 series.

Extra Note if you're interested in virtualization(otherwise skip this): AMD's Processor are unlocked so any FX series supports IOMMU out of the box unlike Intel's Processor which does not support it for its K series.

How to identify which program utilises integer/floating point operations and whatnot?
So, now since I said that AMD's Processor will work better on programs with integer operations, so how can we identify which program uses which? My answer is I don't know and I don't think that there's a way to know about it as normal programs can(and will) consist of a mixture of integer and floating point operations. However, in specialized software like photoshop, video editing, rendering and related programs, then the difference would be much more prudent. Luckily, normally benchmarks will be done using specialized software so we can identify which program utilizes integer or floating point operations heavily.

Article: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardw...-arrives-7.html

Integer Based Operation Benchmark
In the CPU Hash benchmark, we can see that the 8350(you can overclock the 8320 to the stock speed of 8350) is the fastest, even faster than the i7 3960X which should be used to cost >RM 3k(not particularly sure but i7 4960X costs 3399 at viewnet so i7 3960X's price should be more of less the same).

Floating Point Operation Benchmark
Meanwhile, in the FPU VP8 / SinJulia Benchmark, you can see that FX 8350's performance soars, which is on par with a 2nd generation i5.

From the two benchmarks, it is shown that the FX series processor are good in integer operations as shown in the CPU hash benchmark that it even beat Intel's i7 high end processor which costs around 3k just for the processor(instruction set and usage of cores/threads will also affect the result, but that's not the point here). Meanwhile, in the "Floating Point Unit" VP8/Sinjulia benchmark, FX series processor does not perform that well as it has only 4 floating point unit.

Hence, the general rule of identifying whether the program is using integer/floating point operation are as follows:
if FX's performance is similar to i5, then the program is using floating point operation heavily(bad).
if FX's performance is similar to i7, then the program is using integer operation heavily(good).
considering that other factors are constant.

Teksyndicate Crysis 2 + Xsplit?
Video: https://teksyndicate.com/videos/amd-fx-8350...ming-benchmarks

After reading what I've explained, I believe that you would have understand why does the FX 8350 can triumph over the i7 3570k

Miscellaneous
Regarding future proof, I would say that both of it are not future proof as motherboards for haswell won't work for broadwell(next gen) and there's no FX series for next year(and I assume that there won't be any in the future as they go for APU).

Regarding the power usage, even though that the FX series has a much higher TDP and idle power consumption, but it won't affect much of your electricity fees unless you will be turning it on 24/7(based on the calculations done by others, there's only an increase of around 12 USD if I'm not mistaken if you're turning it on daily, and that is based off US's rate, so I'm not sure of the fees at here)

Additional note regarding the motherboard, the two motherboard that I've suggested are not suitable for mid-high end gaming as they don't have a pcie 3.0 slot, so you may need to top up at least RM100 for both to get a board with pcie 3.0 for better performance

Summary
Intel's Processor has a consistent performance in most cases, while AMD's Processor has a variety of performance depending on the cases.

Conclusion
In the end, I'm not saying which is better than which, just that I wanted to show you the differences between the two.

NOTE: I'm not an engineer, so there may be some flaws here and there

This post has been edited by wcypierre: Jan 4 2014, 12:22 AM

It means that the Xeon processor is used in server environment used in both big and small companies(from Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, to banking sites, to some small SOHO). Server processors are generally more durable and reliable as compared with desktop processors as servers are meant to be run 24/7.

Like what I've said earlier,

Xeon 1230 v3 vs i7 4770
Clock Speed: 3.3 vs 3.4
Turbo Boost: 3.7 vs 3.9
Integrated Graphic Card: no vs yes(HD 4600)
ECC RAM Support: yes vs no

The ECC RAM support is stated for the sake of comparison, but you can skip this as it is not related for your usage

p/s: in the end, do you know what is a server? if no then just say it, I'll use a more laymen term instead

This post has been edited by wcypierre: Jan 4 2014, 01:00 AM

Let's start with the server then, otherwise I can't continue

Laymen: Server is a computer(s) that provides services. Laymen enuf?

There are a lot of types of servers, namely:

1. Webserver - Serves content(image, video, content) to us

Example:
Social Network: Facebook, MySpace
Forum: lowyat.net
Blog: blogspot.com, dayre.me, wordpress.org

2. File server - To store and provide access to files. For example, Dropbox, Box, Copy
3. Email Server - To send and/or receive emails. For example, Gmail, hotmail, ymail
4. Game Server - To let you to connect to it and play games online(Dota, Diablo, etc)

and etc.

A server can provide only one service, like acting as a file server. But it can also act as a email server and web server as well, anything can be done as long as there's enough resources(CPU, RAM, HDD, and etc) for it.

However, instead of a server providing many services, many servers can also be used to provide one service.
For example, many servers(can be anywhere, different building, state, country) are used to store the files that are used at Google Drive.

ECC RAM
ECC(Error-correcting code) RAM are just like normal RAM but with additional checking for errors in RAM, and it will try to recover the errors in the RAM if there's an error in the RAM.

For example, assume that 4 = 00000100.

For normal RAM, if the value 4 reaches the RAM and somehow, memory corruption occurs and the value becomes 00000101, then its value will not be 4 anymore because the last 0 has become 1.
For ECC RAM, it will detect that error and try to change the last digit back to 0 to "fix" the data

ECC RAM are used in server environment because data that are stored at the server are critical. For example, for stocks, if the one of the value changes at any of its digit(0.5 becomes 0.6, or 0.5 becomes 0.51), the difference will be very great because it will affect the money that you will gain/loss

Anyway, for a normal user, you won't need these things because you won't be running your computer for 24/7 for like > 5 years.

The reason that people at here will suggest Xeon 1230 v3 over i7 4770 is because if you're buying a dedicated graphic card, then it would be more worthwhile to buy a Xeon 1230 v3 because it is cheaper than i7 4770 and yet providing similar performance as compared with the i7 4770.

what is ESD btw?

ah okay. got it after I get to know bout its abbreviation. I don't build pc much, I pick then call staff to do it only

anyway, to keep this thread ontopic, leave any further replies in pm, okay?

yeah, it works on normal desktop boards as well. btw, I think that you should include your budget, usage and any reusable items as well

where is this benchmark retrieved from btw?

Bitcoin or dogecoin mining probably

quite minimal for gaming, but there will be a greater margin of difference if you use it to power up your integrated graphic card(i.e AMD's apu or Intel i3/i5/i7's HD series)

true also. since the power usage for that build would be too bad for price/watt

both apu and intel i3/i5/i7's HD integrated gpu uses ram as its vram, so, the same concept applies?　exclude the Iris Pro Graphics 5200 series though.

UPDATE: http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/...2#axzz2pWk5vvZ5

This post has been edited by wcypierre: Jan 5 2014, 09:00 PM

sorry, pasted the wrong link

I didn't said that the difference will be very very big though. Getting a dedicated gpu would indeed be the better choice for the price point but I'm just explaining some of the use cases of the usage of ram per se.

This post has been edited by wcypierre: Jan 5 2014, 08:57 PM

it won't be that prudent for now as our memory controller's bandwidth is still not that big, but as the bandwidth of the memory controller increases(min for DDR4 is 2133mhz and max is 4266mhz), the speed of the integrated gpu will be faster and faster. Which makes me think of whether I should wait for DDR4 or not

Its all because of my new hobby: virtualization. virtualization needs compatible proc + compatible mobo + lots of ram + fast and large storage(but no budget for ssd coz too costly )
but anyway, gonna to get myself the rig within this year because waiting for ddr4's price to drop would take too much of a time

+ pcie usb 3.0

agreed. wanna to buy 4 x 8gb value ram but the price is like 900+

I think that your ethernet adapter should be of 100mbps as opposed to the current trend of 1gbit (again, can be solved by adding a pcie 1gbit ethernet card)

yeap If you don't know bout it, then it means that you don't use it aka can ignore

anyway, just stating some of its usage so that you can see whether it is of any use or not. It is mainly speed related though.
1. Improve transmission speed between your computer and your network attached storage(to retrieve files, send files to the network attached storage(NAS), or to stream movies from the NAS)
2. Improve transmission speed between computers of the same network(no need to use usb to transfer)

Point #1 and #2 are similar actually, but just stating the different use cases that you may encounter.

I feel that DDR3's price will raise and raise just like DDR2

yeah...... 4 x 8gb for 700?

If you wanted to go for video editing, may as well as opt for the Xeon 1230 v3 instead You can get the budget for it by using a value ram so you only need to top up another 30+ for it. btw, are you a college/uni student? If you are, you can try and find out whether your college/uni has affiliation with dreamspark or not, if yes then just request for an account and you can get free Win7 and Win8

Power consumption for the AMD FX series is not really much of an issue(its only like RM10 - 30 extra per year), but the issue is on the pricing(AMD FX processors are sold at a higher price than at US and since the FX processor draws more power, you may need to buy a better power supply which again costs $$)

it is still LGA 1150, but the internals have been changed.

Readup: http://www.geek.com/chips/upgrading-from-h...rboard-1568738/