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Investment 4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market, Property Investment

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BTimes
post Jan 12 2014, 07:16 AM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 11 2014, 11:26 PM)
Sorry to interrupt.. infact.. the government slaughter iskandar johor project in cold blood when they raise the bar to 1 million.. they know dat a fact the iskandar project was target to singaporean.. those studios and spartment. Cost 380k mostly planned to be resold at 500k mark all burn down.. 2 of my friends burn out.. no joheareans would be stupid enough to buy 2 room studio worth 500k.. right with 600sq..

the government will just skaughtet u guys.. they wont protect the flippers one.. the market is yotally out di really need a great collapse to restart the pyramid system..
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There were too many flippers in 2013. They should be weeded out.

Assuming a unit at $500k MYR = $200k SGD. At a loan of 80% = $160k SGD. Over 30 years loan monthly repayment at 5% interest is about $1k SGD with maintenance fees and taxes. It is still quite okay to hold for own use.

Unlikely to crash there and probably price will stabilise until RTS is nearly completed. By the way most of the buyers are actually Malaysians.
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post Jan 12 2014, 07:27 AM

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QUOTE(Wiredx @ Jan 12 2014, 07:22 AM)
Malaysians who thought they could flip to Singaporeans imo ^
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You are right. The rules actually hit these Malaysian flippers harder.
BTimes
post Jan 12 2014, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 12 2014, 10:02 AM)
Sure malaysian suffer the most.. holding it.. for high rise only 380k... and booking fees of rm 1k.. everyting else factor into the lion sum... even stamp duties legal fees all inside.. minimum I guess selling at least 450k for not making any loss... that means..per month to service loan is around 1.8 k.. still can hold.. but longer hold.. bank interest higher more you pay yo bank...

So will government or BNM wont let u die? My answer is no..  but bear in mind young buyers.. the first hand purchaser will not easily die.. servicing loan of 1.8k (assuming interest rate stagnate) can still survive one...
those who does not have holding ability.. exp.. person

1.8k house loan
700 myvi loan
500 petrol
400 house rental
150 insurance
60 road tax
500 food
120 phone plus internet
300 for other contingies repair car.. extra entertainment and etc
all in all 4130 per month..assuming no contingencies save rm300 per month (per year 3600)
that means that guys gross salary would be around 5k salary... hmm manager or senior exec.. low end flippers.. havent include credit card spending ( u guys know lahhh)

so ppl under this salary scheme is going to die.... ppl within this bracket say like isjandar project going to suffer for 40 years.. by then.. your prop after servicing the loan till 40 years would be bout 900k to the bank.. flippers will definately not going to hold for dat long ..

So bottom line is those who buy from them ( which many here are trying to pursuade you to buy now otherwise prop price going to increase..and increase which I agree for new projects coming.. but those existing completed why still want to increase)  you will definately lose out and ended up with debt.. in which u be never able to sell.. dat price dat you going to buy fftom these flippers will be around 550k at least taking iskandar in example.. which is a 5 to 10 years price or maybe never reach...

if first hand prop buyrrs with salary of 5k.. suffer diffuculties to service.. you as secondary buyers after being factored RPGT ... stamp duties.. legal fees and expected profit of 150k ..  are definately will bancrupt.. AFFORDABILITY issue is bar... ur salary be 9 k gross to be able to service such loans... of course sure got forumers will telk you normally husband wife fathet mother.. siblings buy together.. no need marry mehh.. ni kids mehh no expenses.. ur main household debts will be to satisfy flippers.. ARE YOU SATISFIED.. let them rot.. government will let them die.

those who are scaring you dat econnomy will go down.. no worry the secindary market will absord it when the price is reasoanably sold.. if flippers insist.. let them bancrupt then sapu.. mind you.. at least 50 %flippers are of the situatiob above.. thise claiming HOLDING power however has many units in their hand.. so SAME situation..

Buyers.. wait and see cash load and wait.. u see ppl bleeding one..
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Why are you feeling so negative and bitter? unsure.gif
BTimes
post Jan 12 2014, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(gspirit01 @ Jan 12 2014, 10:27 AM)
I think bbw had it enuf with the flippers and expensive houses. I think many are like him. If u talk to some young professional  friends, malay, chinese, or indian, u will know y.

The market is extremely unhealthy and robbed of many people's well deserved dream!
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Flippers and buyers of expensive houses also work hard for their money and take risks. It is better to direct energy to making products and providing services to other people, to add value to the society, rather than cursing others and making no gains in the savings account.
BTimes
post Jan 12 2014, 11:49 AM

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Thanks for the story. Below are my comments and questions. Please don't take offence. I will stop teasing you from now tongue.gif

I really dunno.. those good plans planned ahead often turn sour.. business when opening sure good (exp bubble tea business park in 300k to get franchise confirn rich one) ended up bancrupt 6 month .. those expecting increase bonus working class often got bad when it come.. those buying iskandar intending to flip.. now suffering..

these guys are irresponsible.. inflated the market just wash your hands and scoop off.. the younger generation will suffer when new prop price starts at 700k.. or worse..

sharing my own experience.. my gf father bought a DSL in penang for 750k industry areas batu maung.. from a flipper .. now that flipper say we made his day but the other poor flippers beside our unit... was rented to bangla.. haizz tell me flippers is it dat desperate.. and left with us installing guardrill like prison..

Your gf father bought a DSL and you are staying in it with their family despite not yet married?  If that is the case, I can probably understand the pressure you are feeling.

iskandar project however.. my friend good friend bought its project.. malaysian working in singapore.. my friend everyday in the morning rode a bike to cross singapore lining up at customs for clearance with het gf invested in iskandar for a better life to stop travelling across only to know dat their investment go down the drain and back to reliaty to work... when the govetnment raise d bar..to 1 million.. die in vain just like former china Deng Xiao Peng died before the handing over of Hong kong in 1997.. which he wanted to witness the ending of a colony ... now singaporeans want to purchase also cant .. they are barred by 1 million and malaysian will service their loans ..

young buyers choose prudently prices which are inflated way high is not worth of taking..

those who still going to buy .. test yourself.. use 6 months as commitment and bank in the bank as per the loan sum.. see u can or not.. and tink whether u are ready for a 35 years commitment..
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Your good friend and gf are also flipping? Hope your curse doesn't apply to them.


This post has been edited by BTimes: Jan 12 2014, 11:50 AM
BTimes
post Jan 12 2014, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 12 2014, 11:51 AM)
For elder sister and family to stay.. not flipping.. haiyaa discussion wise maa no offence one..  u are still the winner lehh market has yet to collapse or any correctio  yet
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I will check out the showrooms again after Chinese New Year, when traditionally the buyers return to market. If they haven't returned by then, then the market will probably remain quiet by another 1-2 quarters.

I find early Q1 usually the best period to buy as the market is quieter and you can pick your favorite unit without pressure. Some developers also give out free goodies. After Chinese New Year is when developers (and the shops in the street) hint about increasing prices (and they usually follow their word).

At the moment, subsale is the way to go. Some developers should have started to future price their new launches on the GST part. It is the perfect reason to raise price and instill fear.
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post Jan 13 2014, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 13 2014, 04:02 PM)
A slight diversion to compare taxation in Germany vs Malaysia:

If u earn E$60,000 per annum (5K per month) in Germany, the total amount of tax you need to pay is E$ 14,650 or 24%. This includes the following taxes:

1) Income tax
2) Solidarity tax (to help rebuild East Germany)

If u earn >E$52,000 per year, your company must pay 50% your monthly private medical insurance premium up to a max of E$ 315 per month. You pay the balance.

So if ure earning E$5,000 per month, the net salary u will receive after all tax, health insurance and pension fund deductions will be E$ 3,330.

If u compare with a Malaysian earning RM5K per month, your net salary you receive(after deductions) will be RM4,243 per month. But from this amount, you need to pay RM 600 per month for health insurance (to get the same coverage as a German). So after this deduction, you get RM 3,640 in your pocket.

So if you take into account salary comparisons with taxes, yes Germans will pay more. But for a difference of 310 per month (take currency conversion out of the picture since ure not a tourist), Germans get:

1) Cars priced about 50% cheaper with more efficient engines
2) Higher grade petrol at 30% cheaper
3) Toll free highways
4) World class education system
5) Higher levels of personal safety
6) Better quality of life in general
7) Higher purchasing power

So tell me, are all those stories that the Malaysian Gov told us all these years about our supposedly lower cost of living, really true?
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Daily necessities and housing are not included yet. They should be cheaper in Malaysia.
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jan 13 2014, 04:51 PM)
If on parity, it is definitely more expensive in Malaysia  sad.gif
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When I was in the different cities in Germany for work, everyday items were definitely more expensive than Malaysia. $1RM in Malaysia can buy more things than $1 Euro.

Below is a rough comparison of cost of living in Germany and Malaysia:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compa...city2=Frankfurt
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jan 12 2014, 10:27 PM)
As if there is a shortage of supply and buyers are desperate.
He is just been realistic.
Except price inflation, what value did flippers added to the economy? Flippers risks is alike betting in casino, stocks, and gold, don't deserve any sympathy if flipping failed.
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There is likely to be a shortage of supply of lower-end housing (e.g. $200-300k RM condominium) and buyers are desperate.

IMHO, he is under some pressure to get an affordable housing to move on to the next stage of life (marriage).

Flippers share risks with developers by taking units off their hands, but most of the time, they jack up prices unnecessarily. However they are more of a symptom of the problematic housing system issue rather than the cause of it. The PR1MA and whatever schemes are not very transparent and very slow in rolling out low to medium cost housing. Flippers came in to scoop up the good units from private developers, knowing that the pent-up demand will push prices further and ensure future buyers. By allowing the developers to buy up huge tracts of land, the government has effectively lost control over the housing supply.
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post Jan 13 2014, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jan 13 2014, 05:04 PM)
Believe we are comparing on parity, KL is definitely a lot more expensive and poor in quality  mad.gif
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I'm not too sure. I enjoy Asian food in Malaysia more than western food in Germany.
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(jolokia @ Jan 13 2014, 05:30 PM)
There is "No" supply of 200-300K new condo in KV main as far as i see.. sigh

Your personal vendetta again him is making u look like a sour plum at time.  laugh.gif

U seem like finding every Good Excuse for damage control over Flipper, making them Hero out of Zero..  cool2.gif
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Haha, I have nothing against him but I thought it was the reverse as he was always looking out for me as he mistakenly thought I was a flipper. Flippers are high risk takers, and high risk gives high returns, but it could also mean bankruptcy if the bet fails.
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 13 2014, 05:40 PM)
Do u know the meaning of 'purchasing power'? Let me give u a tiny example (which doesnt mean a generalisation of course but just for info). You can get a really good roast beef sandwich at Tesco Express, London for just 99 pence. You can also get a kilo of oranges in Frankfurt for E$2.50 and a kilo of potatoes for E$ 1.50. MInd you Frankfurt was the most (if not among) the most expensive cities in Germany.

What can you get for that price in Malaysia?
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Beef, orange and potatoes are not really native to Malaysia, but are commonly produced in Europe. This explains the price disparity.
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 06:27 PM

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Expats in KL agree that Malaysia is the third best country to retire

KUALA LUMPUR - Vive Le Malaise! Kuala Lumpur expatriates are giving the thumbs-up to InternationalLiving.com's annual Global Retirement Index 2014, which ranked Malaysia as the third best country to retire in, after Ecuador and Panama.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/expa...-country-retire

This article sums up the cost of living in Malaysia versus elsewhere.
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 13 2014, 09:21 PM)
These flippers still got  1 saviour ask the bank to approve generation loan.. like HK.. they confirm suport one....

bt times sure support one.."rather than let the young vibrant flippers go down the drain.. why not we choose a middle to salvage the matter.. I introducing 2 generation loan will feed the empty unit ( at the same time bank account increase.. and flip sumore) right bo...

malaysian are trying to depart the hard work and sit and do nothing and wait money to come .. this is negative society...

there is proluge to kingdom of heavens.. king of england lion heart journey to jerusalam and crusade..
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Why do you like to quote me? tongue.gif
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 13 2014, 09:13 PM)
Yup tinking and hoping bt times will give out sum firesales and for me to grab... it already unsustainable.. the more rampant and freely the prop price go.. the worse our future be.. we be bind by debts forever.. I just want house which is affordable to me..

why no good aihhyaa low yat net not many ppl.. bt times keep posting to CONTAIMED DAMAGE so we do spread elsewhere..

man.. government 3 major step vs developer sweet words ( vibrant property ahead.. remain challenging.. yada yada.. expats... still cheap within the region.. if you poor does not mean everyone cant afford.. everyone have holding power.. price will go up coz we have limited land and constructiob material up.. future price sure up.. IF YOU DONT BUY NOW U WILL REGRET.. and etc arguement)

It is a sick joke to me ppl still in BBB mode in these climate.. gen y are stupid .. they should not behind those unclee...
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I'm also interested firesale leh. Why should I firesale mine to you? You should be in the best position to buy distressed properties since you are in the foreclosure line.

A person can afford more properties by (a) waiting for price crash or (b) working harder to earn more money. IMHO, being in foreclosure line is a bit difficult for fast career progression because spectacular success builds on other people's catastrophic failure. Creating goodwill is better than burning bridges. Maybe you can enlighten me if it is otherwise.
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post Jan 13 2014, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(BTimes @ Jan 13 2014, 10:13 PM)
Why do you like to quote me?  tongue.gif
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Okay, I shall stop teasing cute bearbear innocent.gif
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post Jan 13 2014, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(New Klang @ Jan 13 2014, 10:26 PM)
Flipping properties is less risky compared to operating a business.

Properties are not perishable goods and do not have a shelf life or expiry date. In fact the longer shelf life the more valuable it can be.

There are many people who do not pass the business to their children because their children won't survive operating the business. Instead the business is sold off and properties are bought to generate rental income.
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A hard truth. Doing business is getting harder and harder. Deep pocket and good connections are a given. The incumbent can easily start a price war to wear down new entrants.
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post Jan 13 2014, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(SilverSpoon @ Jan 13 2014, 11:02 PM)
Which part of Germany do u stay last time?
I was there 6 months ago.
And i can confirm the cost of living there is definitely lower than Malaysia.
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The bigger cities e.g. Frankfurt
BTimes
post Jan 13 2014, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(SilverSpoon @ Jan 13 2014, 11:16 PM)
Good. I stayed there too.
How much do you spent for a bottle of beer in a pub?
How much do you pay for a frankfurter?
And the pork knuckle there is so damn cheap.
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Beer is very cheap in Germany. Pork knuckles, just like cuckoo clocks...are for tourists.
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post Jan 14 2014, 06:49 AM

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QUOTE(SilverSpoon @ Jan 13 2014, 11:53 PM)
I thought u just mentioned every day item more expensive than Malaysia? Now u said beer is cheap?
How about price of mineral water there?
How about price for a set of McDonald's meal?
And also a piece of Nike tshirt?
All of the above is still more cheaper in Germany than Malaysia.
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Friend, you don't drink beer everyday, which is bad for your health. And those things you quote are not your everyday items. Okay you win, the cost of living in Germany is cheaper than Malaysia. You can migrate there if you wish to save more money.

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