originally from this thread..
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=288181
...
here's the design.. http://ikram-zidane.com/minde
some minor xhtml misplace.. gonna fix it later..
valid css...as always..

any thought ? thanks in advance...
anyway.. how much do you think i should be paid for this design ?? just wanna ask... thanks again..

I'd be able to sell it for RM500 for the template alone exlcuding integration.. but hey, on my end it's business.

If I were a student still in college, I'd aim for RM500 with the integration of it. Lowest I'd dip is RM300. Because if it's a blog design, the template doesn't really change.

good montaging Ikram..

and minde, do note that if you all host un-lawful mp3s and get found out, you guys will have the RIAA on your asses. LOL!

how much with integration ?? wordpress ?? its a website design actually... but since they have the shoutbox... it may be a blog design..

anyway... i'll get 100-200 for this...

by website design you mean HTML...?

if the system runs on a CMS like Wordpress then there's 2 options; blogs or dynamic websites. so gotta know the difference.

if I were a college student doing blog design and integration.. yeah.. RM500. younger than that, well, RM200-300 is alot of for other students to pay another student unless if you do the math of 40 students in class and each can contribute RM10. lol

yea...mp3 ...wanna remove it in the new ikrams webpage...i wanna add my school band songs ..

lol...my class only have 26 students....school policy u knoe..

26 students.. not bad la.. RM260.. only RM50 off RM300 which is the limit. LoL!

unless it's because all the students don't see the point in investing in a website..

Good play with brushes, you've got a nice "grunge" look and style going on. Way too overused (your blog and the produced work look similar), but still impressive indeed.

I'd say you know a thing or two about semantics when it comes to coding html, using lists where applicable- which is VERY rare, especially considering your age and location.

I'll have to disargee with etsuko on this one though. You've got your work featured on CSSmania and the like- meaning, you're "recognized", in a way. Crap stuff don't get showcased. Some sub-standard sites do make it through the filter at "mid-range" css gallery sites at times, but your work looks decent enough.

What I'm trying to say is, your work isn't worth so little. RM400, just around ~USD100 is wayy too little to charge, much less a starting amount of RM150. Maybe for normal 15-year old students, but you've shown exceptional talent.

I wish I had what you have right now at 15, a short 2 years ago. The Internet is a fast moving place with unlimited chances and opportunities, just waiting to be grasped at. Play your cards right, and you'll be more successful than you've ever imagined yourself to be.

Speaking from experience- offer your expertise to a major "hip and happening" internet site that badly needs a makeover. Do this for free or for a minimal amount in exchange for a link back to your site in the footer or somewhere. Make an impressive looking portfolio site and get your name out, get a bit of fame. Clients will start pouring in. Quote them as you see fit- I start at USD400. Aim at US-based organizations, they generally pay well.

If you play your cards right, you'll be seeing nice paychecks/bank transfers soon enough. Be careful with money and the temptations it brings though- I got through a phase where I considered giving up high school altogether after making more than my dad does in a month. They say freelance work is unpredictable and unstable- but as long as you have a steady stream of good paying clients, you'll have no problem.

Face it, juggling studies, homework and your "job" would be very stressful, it'll take a toll on you soon enough. After all, you'll be expected to produce what a full-time worker does in a 8 hour day- and clients can be VERY demanding. I'm doing my SPM this year and I'm not doing so well academic-wise. There WILL be sacrifices you have to make. Plan your time well, but no matter what you do, do not give up on school. Your future would be a dead-end without a basic high school cert.

Web designers in their late 10s are popping up everywhere- there are some high profile ones like Anard (16 years old)- http://aprilzero.com/, not so self promoting ones like Jalenack (also 16, famous for his Wordpress plugin "wordspew"), and just plain discreet ones (like me, 17 ) I must recommend you read this particular post on Jalenack. It talks about what problems so-called "successful" designers in their 10s are facing, I can relate a lot to a bunch of things he said.

actually im paying by myself...

for me... its jsut merely 2 hours+.. got to stay in school most of the time... but still having great times designing..

dear R-K-F,

trust me when I say alot of designers and students interested in design in this forum whether or not in primary, secondary, college or university know one thing deeply lacking in this field in Malaysia..

..appreciation to the value of design itself.

we can discuss all we want of how young designers overseas are making a name or money for themselves however, unless you run an online website aka portfolio and await for international clients to come to you then you won't have a stable income.

if you've realize the field of website design today, everyone can design a website no doubt. all they need is photoshop. so even with an online presence to show how good your works really are doesn't guarantee you jobs. you still need to be active in other methods played in business. you need to communicate your worth to others so they'll respect you as a designer.

i've known Ikram since he showed interest here and I know he's got talent but you can't sell talent alone especially if you're trying to be one of the known designers in Malaysia.

not to belittle or lower everyone's self-esteem, do you know that international clients demand something other than just your design alone sometimes? they want an agreement prepared and signed, they want to know the copyright rights, the licenses, the reliability and etc.

other than all of this, I hope all of you website designers have tried asking yourselves these questions:
- what am I going to do as a website designer?
- how long am I going to be a website designer?

to date, I've not known any website designer being able to sell a template design for USD10k alone. so just think about it.

Precisely. Which is why I said to aim at US/overseas clients instead of making it big locally. To date I've only done ONE job for a local- you know, those "uni homework"-type jobs. he paid me a grand total of RM50. Never again
Which is exactly what I am doing- and what I advised him to do. With a semi impressive, clean "professional" portfolio, you'll sure attract clients but that's only half of the work done, I think. A live, working example of presented work should be available- I've been hired at top pay more than a few times for my ability to skin mediawiki, for instance.
Him having being featured on CSS gallery sites is great exposure alone. I myself get jobs from referrals- I think it's more than enough. I've my hands full; not to mention a queue of people waiting for me to get to their turn. You'd be surprised at how much people need sites done- and are willing to pay a premium price for good work. As I said, "They say freelance work is unpredictable and unstable- but as long as you have a steady stream of good paying clients, you'll have no problem." I have so far not run into any difficulties involving "shortage of work", I'm always engaged some way or another. I don't manually FIND work myself either, they find me.
Why aim for Malaysia, would be my question? I don't think anyone can make it in Malaysia- um, as you said, no appreciation for good design. Zero.
Yes, I am aware of that. I've signed a couple of NDAs, no big deal. There is a pyramid for the "type" of clients, and only those at the top of the pyramid would involve paperwork (+ more money involved). Conduct yourself professionally, speak good English and you'll be fine.
A more appropriate question would be, "Why do I want to be a website designer?"
1. The pay isn't bad at all!
2. I enjoy doing it. Nothing is better than enjoying what you do for a living.
http://www.firewheeldesign.com/ourwork/
They start at 10k

Urm.. firewheel design is an agency and not by a single person. i was trying to say about being a solo freelance designer.

anyway, i can see that you're very well into this business so obviously you're promoting to Ikram to do the same.

however, to answer your question on why should we target Malaysia since they don't even value design. well, I believe that they do have a chance and the chance is in the younger generation like Ikram. this brings us to the concern of talents overseas who don't want to return back home because the offerings overseas is better.

but have you thought about what you're doing isn't helping our 'chances' much of helping build Malaysia in this industry? if I wanted to be in a place where design is more appreciated, I'd have stayed in Australia but it's because I'm giving Malaysia a second look since I know there are lots of people like Ikram around and these people need people like us to tell them that Malaysia has it but they just need to find it.

Anyway, I think alot of us would really like to drool over some of the international work you've done as well so hope we could see a portfolio or something.

If I manage to secure a place for myself at some overseas uni studying graphics design (which is what I'm aiming for)- I most certainly would not want to come back here. Not right after grad, anyway. I am a very liberal person in nature, I can't stand injustice, censorship and racial discrimination which we all know our dear beloved country is practising. I've already got into more trouble than it's worth for speaking out on this (nothing major, just "disciplinary" punishment & an order to shut up), so I'm setting sights on the US. People tell me it is no better, how I'll run into other problems there- I'll be there to see for myself. You might think me immature, but hey, I'm young and I've got a ton more to learn.

Another reason why I most likely won't return is that well, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a gov't scholarship/loan/any sort of financial help if you want to study anything related to art- in fact, you most probably WON'T get any support at all if you aren't studying some sort of "science-related" subject. So I'll be self funding myself- why would I want to return? Not that I am extremely poor academically so I'm not qualified for government scholarships- I don't exactly excel but I think I do fine, although I hate the way education is done here. Was forced into the science stream after scorcing 6/8As for PMR (BM and Chinese, both B.) Taking all three Fizik, Bio and Kimia at one time, in MALAY no less, plus having absolutely no interest in those subjects at all = killer. Needless to say I'm quite disappointed in Malaysia and I would want to avoid coming back for a while.

And yes, I'm promoting Irkam to do the same because his level of work is there, with a little bit of effort he can make so much more.

And um, sure. Site's here. http://ignorantcow.net/ As all portfolio sites are- it's horribly outdated- been meaning to remake & update, but I haven't the time. You know what I mean.

Before this starts to lean towards anything personal, I just wish you the best in your endeavours and hope you're able to learn all you need in the States then maybe in future, you'll come back able and willing to share with some of those here.

And Ikram, just keep up the good work and you'll very well if you plan to take this whole thing seriously.

Cheers.

how come after uploading the site...my webpage turned out funny?

Funny!

Very nice design, but let me comment a few things on your (x)html usage.

1) Doctype
DO NOT use transitional. Always use strict, by using transitional you put the browser renderer into quirks mode. This means it tries to fix things for you and ignore the standard way of doing things. This in turn will make it harder to find any possible errors or bugs.

Read this: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html

2) Understand the tags
The paragraph text is meant for paragraphs and thus text. Paragraphs do not include lists. Those should be placed outside the paragraph. Each tag has a meaning, so use it accordingly.

3) Learn the purpose of attributes
IDs as you know are short for identifiers or identities if you will. Which by definition is unique. You must not have 2 IDs with the same value, regardless of the tag. Also the anchor tag does not have an "alt" attribute. You should also enter some text in the "alt" attribute for your images. A short description of the image would suffice.

HTML Reference: http://www.w3schools.com/tags/default.asp

Besides that, you are on the right track dude. Keep up the good work

This post has been edited by silverhawk: Jul 1 2006, 02:45 AM

well, the xhtml document is not even valid at the moment...we are transitioning and yeah, i know that you can't uses id more than once...
i uses ul tag inside a p so that it will remain consistent in its position..
thanks anyway..

This post has been edited by ikram_zidane: Jul 1 2006, 08:24 AM

how come the design works flawlessly in IE ... but it doenst work in firefox?

i would like to add somethings.... its better if u add a HomePage link ... so that its easier to visit the homepage...

how do i create a link to direct it to the homepage? a link would do.

is there anyway to make the header as a graphical link to the homepage? and whats the code to open a link in a new windows ...

your page is XHTML 1.0 Transitional. It should look great in any browser that supports XHTML. Btw, for greater compatibilty, use HTML 4.01 instead. I don't see a flaw in the Firefox 1.5.0.4. What version of Firefox are you using?

Popup Windows using javascript

window.open(URL, window_name, "toolbar=x,scrollbars=x,location=x,statusbar=x,menubar=x,resizable=x,width=x,height=x,left =x,top=x") where x is a round number...

This post has been edited by dopodplaya: Jul 1 2006, 10:35 AM

the problem is fixed ... its my browser problem....

add this to the xhtml document... inside the header div..


and then add to the style...

or you could use text-indent to hide the text..

for the second...mind telling me in a lil more detail pls >.<